103 replies to this topic

[RedVan]

Next patch please.  Biggest noob fuzzy bunny I've ever seen in a game ever.  Giant spam fest of noobness.

You could cut the rof in half and it'd still be pretty noob.  I'm not even going to bother playing in matches with them any more.

[Sicarius_X]

The rev is a bit over powered, but it is not the end all weapon. It's very very good vs. people in choke points, it can be 1 or 6 people and the Grenadier doesn't really care if they are all coming from the same direction. If your team splits apart and comes from a few different ways then you have nothing to worry about. It could take a nerf though, I'm not disputing that. I'm just saying do not quit the game over it dude.

Edited by Sicarius_X, December 19 2012 - 12:00 AM.

[RedVan]

Sicarius_X, on December 18 2012 - 10:57 PM, said:

The rev is a bit over powered, but it is not the end all weapon. It's very very good vs. people in choke points, it can be 1 or 6 people and the Grenadier doesn't really care if they are all coming from the same direction. If your team splits apart and comes from a few different ways then you have nothing to worry about. It could take a nerf though, I'm not disputing that. I'm just saying do not quit the game over it dude.

i never said i was quitting the game altogether ;P  Just matches with spamming noobs in them.

That's exactly the problem, its too good at choke points.  Consider the small area people need to be in to do things like defend the AA, collect EU, or capture missile silos.  When you have gametypes and maps that encourage close quarters like that, a mech that can rapid fire high explosives is a bit OP.

[Beemann]

RevGL needed an ROF nerf.. instead it got a buff
Stop this madness please

[nepacaka]

Grenadier is good balansed mech, he don't need "nerf" or "up". Еspecially with RevGL. imho

[Phaaze]

Statisticly speaking it deals bout 25% more damage then other weapons with similar range.  So yes it is better but not that bad.

Stats
most weps at 75m effective range: 80dps

REV GL :100dps

Edited by Phaaze, December 19 2012 - 10:46 AM.

[Pengod]

Normally I'm not one to defend keeping things the way they are, but seriously, it's huge and slow. beginning players using it are easy to kill due the lack they have in using it properly

[Ollie]

Please, please don't nerf Grenadier.  It's the first class C that really makes the power/speed tradeoff acceptable.

Here are mistakes I see people making when they come up against a Gren:

Stop standing in choke points.  Walk around to the choke's other entrance, and kill the Gren.
Stop clusterducking around choke points.  When 3 of you are all holding hands, that's when ish gets OP.
Stop standing in front of the wall when you're hiding around a corner.  I can bounce 'nades off that wall.
Stop humping the corner.  I can put nades on the ground.  Use the corner to put space between you and the Gren.
I have difficulty hitting a flying target, but it isn't impossible.  It's the only time I've seen flight as useful.

But most importantly:
Kill the grenadier.  Class As do a number on me and can easily get to the other side of a choke.  Any class C that can force me to splash myself is probably going to win.  Throwing a shield down in front of a grenadier and then moving away from the shield completely neutralizes most of my weapons.  One EMP and I'm toast, because I'm going to have difficulty getting away.  Any time I can get baited into over-committing, I'm not likely to be able to escape.  And unless you're all holding hands, a 2v1 is fairly difficult to deal with.

[BuDeKai]

it needs a slight reduction or less effect on the movement of the mechs its hitting.

the brawler makes fantastic use of the power speed tradeoff.

[Ollie]

BuDeKai, on December 19 2012 - 11:35 AM, said:

it needs a slight reduction or less effect on the movement of the mechs its hitting.

the brawler makes fantastic use of the power speed tradeoff.

I could deal with a knockback nerf.

[Fantus_Longhorn]

BuDeKai, on December 19 2012 - 11:35 AM, said:

it needs a slight reduction or less effect on the movement of the mechs its hitting.

the brawler makes fantastic use of the power speed tradeoff.

Explosives freezing mechs in place needs fixing in general. Once that's done then I think the Grenadier will be fine, it's good at what it's meant for.

[Beemann]

Ollie, on December 19 2012 - 11:11 AM, said:

Stop standing in choke points.  Walk around to the choke's other entrance, and kill the Gren.
Stop clusterducking around choke points.  When 3 of you are all holding hands, that's when ish gets OP.
Stop standing in front of the wall when you're hiding around a corner.  I can bounce 'nades off that wall.
Stop humping the corner.  I can put nades on the ground.  Use the corner to put space between you and the Gren.
I have difficulty hitting a flying target, but it isn't impossible.  It's the only time I've seen flight as useful.

Alright so according to your tips I should
Not play Sahara at all
Not go to S3 on Titan
Not hold the AA/S2
because those are all very chokepoint centric, and I wouldn't want to give the Grenadier the upper hand
Also I shouldn't be near any walls, but I also shouldn't really be out in the open either, depending on your level of competence and the loadout I'm using. Ergo my best spot is hovering roughly 10 feet off the ground away from any surfaces you could rebound grenades off of, or cover in grenades. Sounds legit
Furthermore, I should strive to never be anywhere near teammates, because the Grenadier's constant AOE spam isn't OP, moving as a group is
Also telling people to fly because you can't hit them when they do so is the surest sign that you're doinitwrong

Edited by Beemann, December 19 2012 - 12:28 PM.

[fireball]

Never fly against a grenadier, if they can't aim, they'll still figure out where to hit you in a few seconds and you'll go down, and if they can aim, you'll just go down even faster.  Let alone it is a good way to convince half their team to shoot you as well.

[AsianJoyKiller]

Back in CBE3 when I was talking with people on how to make the REV more useful and less spammy, I foresaw these problems.

If you're going to make it easier to direct hit with, you need to drop the rate of fire and/or drop the AoE.

[Ollie]

Beemann, on December 19 2012 - 12:28 PM, said:

Alright so according to your tips I should
Not play Sahara at all

Or kill the threat by coming from the other direction.

Quote

Not go to S3 on Titan

Not without killing the threat first, no.  Do you hump Brawlers_

Quote

Not hold the AA/S2

Not without killing the threat first, no.  Do you hump Brawlers_

Quote

because those are all very chokepoint centric, and I wouldn't want to give the Grenadier the upper hand

You should totally read near the bottom where I suggested killing the threat first.  It's amazingly like killing the sniper before a run in Tribes, killing the k/d leader first in Vanilla FPS, focus-firing in Chocolate FPS, etc.  You might even try flanking, you crazy kid you.

Quote

Also I shouldn't be near any walls, but I also shouldn't really be out in the open either, depending on your level of competence and the loadout I'm using. Ergo my best spot is hovering roughly 10 feet off the ground away from any surfaces you could rebound grenades off of, or cover in grenades. Sounds legit

Yes.  When the mech is front loaded with all the power facing in front of him, the best place to be is roughly directly behind the grenadier.

Quote

Furthermore, I should strive to never be anywhere near teammates, because the Grenadier's constant AOE spam isn't OP, moving as a group is

You know you're taking splash damage from other mechs that use explosive weapons too, right_  So yeah, you should probably strive to not hold hands.

Quote

Also telling people to fly because you can't hit them when they do so is the surest sign that you're doinitwrong

Grenade arcs are harder to hit when someone's moving through 3 directions. *shrug*  It is not always an optimal strategy.  Certainly not with multiple engagements, as fireball notes.  The statement still stands -- I have a more difficult time hitting a flying target with arc'd grenades.  As fireball notes, it's much easier when they land -- but you're not flying unless it's some sort of last ditch effort...right_

Incidentally, kudos to fireball AND ajk for being able to critique without being a complete dickface about it. xoxoxo <3  Dude above was right, you've really got your panties in a fuzzy bunny bunch, huh_

[fireball]

Well, more accurately, I meant they would die quickly in air once you adjusted to arc that was giving you yellow dots, and then slowly adjusted to keep getting yellow dots.  The only time flying makes them enough harder to hit to be worthwhile is when you're on the long range of my distance, and then just dashing around should have similar effectiveness.

[Beemann]

Ollie, on December 19 2012 - 02:28 PM, said:

Stuff

Running into a brawler and circling around half the map are two very different things. I'm really surprised that you don't recognize the difference
In any case, the delay itself is far more than any other class can pull off, and it's a massive advantage. Having to spend 30+ seconds circling around to kill a grenadier = might as well quit now (and I'm factoring in things like... you know... teammates, and the grenadier actually moving, both of which are frequent events in 6v6)

Ollie, on December 19 2012 - 02:28 PM, said:

You should totally read near the bottom where I suggested killing the threat first.  It's amazingly like killing the sniper before a run in Tribes, killing the k/d leader first in Vanilla FPS, focus-firing in Chocolate FPS, etc.  You might even try flanking, you crazy kid you.

>sniper in tribes
I hope you're not talking about Ascend, where the sniper has always been dominant D and where killing the sniper gives you jack and fuzzy bunny in terms of a time frame AND where stopping to kill the sniper = fuzzy bunny up your run
Also, "just kill it" isn't really a viable argument, I could use the same argument concerning an opponent who hits you with EMP and drops you to the red. "Just kill them, it's all good"

Ollie, on December 19 2012 - 02:28 PM, said:

Yes.  When the mech is front loaded with all the power facing in front of him, the best place to be is roughly directly behind the grenadier.

So my best bet is. instead, to stand in a position where I hope my opponent doesn't know what shift-S does_
That sounds legit

Ollie, on December 19 2012 - 02:28 PM, said:

You know you're taking splash damage from other mechs that use explosive weapons too, right_  So yeah, you should probably strive to not hold hands.

I wasn't aware the the TOW and GL had RevGL firing rates

Ollie, on December 19 2012 - 02:28 PM, said:

Grenade arcs are harder to hit when someone's moving through 3 directions. *shrug*  It is not always an optimal strategy.  Certainly not with multiple engagements, as fireball notes.  The statement still stands -- I have a more difficult time hitting a flying target with arc'd grenades.  As fireball notes, it's much easier when they land -- but you're not flying unless it's some sort of last ditch effort...right_

Vertical targets are the EASIEST targets to hit in the game. If you have trouble hitting them, you're doinitwrong
Flying as a last ditch effort is the equivalent of running straight into a sharpshooter while you're emp'd

[ogFrag]

So basically you are whining that too many nades come flying in from where you can't see_  Ever heard of radar_  How is it noobish to stand behind my team and frag the hell out of you_  It's called team strategy. Take the advice here and learn to combat it.  Seriously not going to give you any strategies to beat me but if you can't beat a Grenadier than you may be the noob.

[Beemann]

ogFrag, on December 19 2012 - 03:17 PM, said:

So basically you are whining that too many nades come flying in from where you can't see_  Ever heard of radar_  How is it noobish to stand behind my team and frag the hell out of you_  It's called team strategy. Take the advice here and learn to combat it.  Seriously not going to give you any strategies to beat me but if you can't beat a Grenadier than you may be the noob.

Protip: I played Grenadier before it got a straight buff

[Ollie]

Beemann, on December 19 2012 - 03:39 PM, said:

Protip: I played Grenadier before it got a straight buff