139 replies to this topic

[nepacaka]

Sometimes i see the players in Team Deathmatch commit suicide at low health. Not giving their opponents points for his murder. This is not correct (it's unsportsmanlike conduct). I suggest to take away points from the player and his Team over the suicide, as in other FPS game.

I apologize if this topic has already been (I could not find it)

P.S. Sorry my bad english

[Dread_Lord_Pitr]

You do realise that it usually isn't intentional, right _
If i had to count the times i tried to shoot someone with a TOW and end up killing them AND myself, or just killing myself instead of them...
It happens, it sucks, deal with it.

[OsirisVDC]

You took the words right out of my fingers.

Dread_Lord_Pitr, on January 23 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

You do realise that it usually isn't intentional, right _
If i had to count the times i tried to shoot someone with a TOW and end up killing them AND myself, or just killing myself instead of them...
It happens, it sucks, deal with it.

[nepacaka]

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You do realise that it usually isn't intentional, right _

Yes, sometimes it is not intentional (to shoot carefully and accurately, so this does not happen)

TDM but it can be used so as not to give opponents frags.
There were times when a score 50/51, and 15 seconds left in the match, the player is cornered might kill himself, not giving the enemy team a chance to win. (and I do so occasionally did in TDM)

[RentAKnight]

Dread_Lord_Pitr, on January 23 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

You do realise that it usually isn't intentional, right _
If i had to count the times i tried to shoot someone with a TOW and end up killing them AND myself, or just killing myself instead of them...
It happens, it sucks, deal with it.

eh last night in a DM game, three separate players were suiciding to avoid giving me xp for their kill, my kill streak bonus, and ending their kill streak.  The players were obviously cornered had no way of escaping and would look at the ground/wall and fire their secondary to kill themselves.

One player directly admitted that they woudln't give kills to a heat scout (what I was playing, the frustration is understable), but the tactic is lame.  If the game mode is built around out xp pacing your opponents, then every player should deny granting their opponents XP every chance they get.  This being allowed to happen seems like an overlooked flaw.

If you always want to win, you should always suicide.

Other threads have suggested granting a kill to the last person to do damage to the suicider, granting the associated xp bonuses.  This seems like the best solution.

Edited by RentAKnight, January 23 2013 - 01:13 PM.

[nepacaka]

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If you always want to win, you should always suicide.

it is also a serious disadvantage, since they are often used for their purposes. but if the DM of this can be ignored, then in TDM - does this influence your win/defeat match

[Gree]

Well...You can't commit suicide with the ss unless you fall from a high place...
Players who do this intentionally are usually selfish jerks that don't recognize defeat. It's a hole honor thing. Soon people will start seeing this attitude with mean eyes (or not), and quickly most people will stop doing it, just like stealing kills.

[andythebomb]

This exploit dose need to get fixed.
I've seen this becoming more and more prevalent in TDM games where any time a enemy gets cornered by multiple players they just tow themselves to death.

This is really easy with the A class mechs especially the scout with the tow and heat cannon.

[nepacaka]

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I've seen this becoming more and more prevalent in TDM games where any time a enemy gets cornered by multiple players they just tow themselves to death.

That's what I say, it's a big problem in TDM, and it will be used by experienced players even more in the near future.
And in the end of match, not the team wins that will get more kills, but the one that most would kill himself, without giving the enemy team to earn points.

Need to make the penalty for suicide! (-1 point to score team). As in other FPS games

Edited by nepacaka, January 24 2013 - 04:44 AM.

[RisorialScion]

nepacaka, on January 24 2013 - 04:43 AM, said:

Need to make the penalty for suicide! (-1 point to score team). As in other FPS games

So that evil players can quickly reduce the team score just because they want to_ Quite unfair, don't you think_ This would be easily exploited as well...

[Beemann]

RisorialScion, on January 24 2013 - 04:46 AM, said:

So that evil players can quickly reduce the team score just because they want to_ Quite unfair, don't you think_ This would be easily exploited as well...

Are you trying to argue that the number of people who will willingly sabotage their own team outnumber the people who would use an exploit to win_ As well, are you implying that they couldn't just feed kills to the opposing team anyway_

[nepacaka]

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So that evil players can quickly reduce the team score just because they want to_ Quite unfair, don't you think_ This would be easily exploited as well...

I would not create this topic if such incidents did not occur on my eyes a lot more than when I first started playing.

Opportunity to create their team is negative (below zero, I mean) score unfortunately is.

But you would be doing yourself the score -40_ In addition it is also losing your statistics. I do not think that 99.9% of the players will be do that in TDM, but the suicide % decrease.

Besides, no one does that in the Counter-Strike or Quake or other (at least I did not see)

Edited by nepacaka, January 24 2013 - 05:18 AM.

[RisorialScion]

Beemann, on January 24 2013 - 04:49 AM, said:

Are you trying to argue that the number of people who will willingly sabotage their own team outnumber the people who would use an exploit to win_

Can't remember arguing that way, no.

Beemann, on January 24 2013 - 04:49 AM, said:

As well, are you implying that they couldn't just feed kills to the opposing team anyway_

Sure, there are multiple ways to sabotage games. There is no need to add another, easy method.

IMO, the best solution was brought up here already:

IF nobody did damage to the suicide pilot, just add another death to HIS stats alone, leave the teams score untouched so they can't get grieved. They already suffer because someone sits at spawn constantly killing himself (one less team member in the fray).

IF he took damage by anyone, even the slightest, let the suicide count as a full kill by whoever did the most damage (or last damage), everyone else getting the assist accordingly. Gets counted as kill in the Team statistics as well. IMHO the better solution.

Edited by RisorialScion, January 24 2013 - 06:16 AM.

[nepacaka]

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IF he took damage by anyone, even the slightest, let the suicide count as a full kill by whoever did the most damage (or last damage), everyone else getting the assist accordingly. Gets counted as kill in the Team statistics as well. IMHO the better solution.

Not bad idea. But it's not perfect, because the player clamped into a corner, or not very well spawn, being 1 vs. 3 enemy can still commit suicide if he Scout or Infiltrator, before enemies come running to him.

In my best solution would be to make the -1 point to discourage the desire to commit suicide. Not only in TDM and modes of DM, MA and the Siege mode too.

Such a system was from the first shooter games, and always worked fine, and I do not understand, why it did not in Hawken from the start_ It would be easier, and would serve as a punishment for reckless/intentional acts of pilots.

Edited by nepacaka, January 24 2013 - 07:19 AM.

[RentAKnight]

At 7:20 and 9:56 there are intentional suicides.  Had I gotten the xp bonus's the outcome of the game may have been different.

[alreadyded]

Punishing for pilot errors would be brutal since everyone does it from time to time on accident, or because a teammate jumps in front of the shot, or running away and falling to your demise. Just give credit for the kill (and ending a kill streak, etc.), or at least an assist to everyone that damaged the mech then the problem is solved.

Edited by alreadyded, January 24 2013 - 04:12 PM.

[nepacaka]

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a teammate jumps in front of the shot, or running away and falling to your demise

play carefully

The main problem - it is precisely the lack of penalty points for a suicide, but did not "Receive/Failure to receive" experience, and ending a kill streak (though it is also important)

[Kai_Kitamura]

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You do realise that it usually isn't intentional, right _

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Punishing for pilot errors would be brutal

No matter if it's intentional, or not, it's poor play and should be punished accordingly.

[RisorialScion]

nepacaka, on January 24 2013 - 07:06 AM, said:

Such a system was from the first shooter games, and always worked fine, and I do not understand, why it did not in Hawken from the start_ It would be easier, and would serve as a punishment for reckless/intentional acts of pilots.

Because it serves as punishment for the team, not only the player. If they wanna win the game like this, they could as well just sit at the deployment screen until the match is over. No need to deploy and suicide all the time. If they are actually fighting and on low health, it counts as if they got killed by the enemy. Where is the problem in that_ Sorry but your method is way too abusive in my eyes.

[nepacaka]

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Sorry but your method is way too abusive in my eyes.

that is, in quake 3 and counter-strike have "defective" TDM_

I am saying that these special cases of suicide, should be completely eradicated.
Until this is, you can always find a way to cheat the game (use the flaw). And no particular desire.
And why do you feel that you take points from the player - it's too harsh_

Edited by nepacaka, January 25 2013 - 05:50 AM.