139 replies to this topic

[curlupanddie]

I don't think a Penalty is a solution, as it sets up for some pretty weak sauce griefing, and punishes mistakes a bit heavy handed. I would think simply registering it as a kill in a favor of who hit last is a pretty fair way to handle it.

[robotokom]

nepacaka, on January 24 2013 - 04:43 AM, said:

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I've seen this becoming more and more prevalent in TDM games where any time a enemy gets cornered by multiple players they just tow themselves to death.

That's what I say, it's a big problem in TDM, and it will be used by experienced players even more in the near future.
And in the end of match, not the team wins that will get more kills, but the one that most would kill himself, without giving the enemy team to earn points.

Need to make the penalty for suicide! (-1 point to score team). As in other FPS games

Yes and we need friendly fire!

[nemonzo]

RisorialScion, on January 25 2013 - 12:39 AM, said:

Because it serves as punishment for the team, not only the player.
...

Yes, TDM is all about that. If you suck, you bring down team with you, it's normal, either if you kill your self or if you suck at aiming or don't stay close to your team mates or ... et cetera.

Intentional suicide is getting common practice by now, and it must be punished.

But also, the aspect to switch team and suicide to bring down the enemy is to take into consideration, and I don't see a simple solution to that.

[nepacaka]

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and punishes mistakes a bit heavy handed.

You're used to that it should be aimed at simplicity. Do you want to take it easy - play in Mario or Tetris

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But also, the aspect to switch team and suicide to bring down the enemy is to take into consideration, and I don't see a simple solution to that.

I would not do that. ruin my stats for the victory another team_ fuzzy bunny!
replies #11 in this topic from Beeman

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As well, are you implying that they couldn't just feed kills to the opposing team anyway_

in this way the team will win and earn a lot of experience on saboteur player =)

-1 Point for suicide - this is logical. Because it is your fault!
+1 Point for the fact that the enemy had committed suicide - is not logical. Because you did not kill him, he died not from your bullets. You do not get kills for assists, is not it_

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Yes and we need friendly fire!

if there is a match "clan 1" vs. "clan 2" (In TDM 5 vs. 5 maybe) why not_

Edited by nepacaka, January 25 2013 - 10:05 AM.

[MedioMorde]

Dread_Lord_Pitr, on January 23 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

You do realise that it usually isn't intentional, right _
If i had to count the times i tried to shoot someone with a TOW and end up killing them AND myself, or just killing myself instead of them...
It happens, it sucks, deal with it.

In either case, a team should be punished for their incompetence or cowardice, rather than technicaly being rewarded.

Edited by MedioMorde, January 25 2013 - 10:00 AM.

[curlupanddie]

nemonzo, on January 25 2013 - 09:13 AM, said:

RisorialScion, on January 25 2013 - 12:39 AM, said:

Because it serves as punishment for the team, not only the player.
...

Yes, TDM is all about that. If you suck, you bring down team with you, it's normal, either if you kill your self or if you suck at aiming or don't stay close to your team mates or ... et cetera.

Intentional suicide is getting common practice by now, and it must be punished.

But also, the aspect to switch team and suicide to bring down the enemy is to take into consideration, and I don't see a simple solution to that.

You keep using the term punished, but how about we just not make it such an option_

you must understand that not all suicides are exploits as well, so coming down with the hammer on noobs isn't going to entice people to keep playing. And like it or not, noobs are what will keep this game relevant.

nepacaka, on January 25 2013 - 09:52 AM, said:

-1 Point for suicide - this is logical. Because it is your fault!
+1 Point for the fact that the enemy had committed suicide - is not logical. Because you did not kill him, he died not from your bullets. You do not get kills for assists, is not it_

Logical or not, that's not a fun or practical way to handle it. The kill should just go to who did the damage to the suicidal player. It would be assisted suicide, the point would go to the player that either got a guy down so far that he gave up, or panicked because he was getting his ass kicked and fell off a building or shot a TOW point blank. If you just award the kill to who did the damage, then all this is moot.

[Smonk3y]

Intentional or not, a suicide whether from fall damage or explosion damage or whatever should always result in a -1. Almost every game I've played does this.

[nepacaka]

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Intentional or not, a suicide whether from fall damage or explosion damage or whatever should always result in a -1. Almost every game I've played does this.

ya, and this system is time-tested in games

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you must understand that not all suicides are exploits as well, so coming down with the hammer on noobs isn't going to entice people to keep playing. And like it or not, noobs are what will keep this game relevant.

Noobs suffer from not less than the pro-players. And the fault will soon be always be used in command mode game (Ranked or Clan-war or something else in future).

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It would be assisted suicide, the point would go to the player that either got a guy down so far that he gave up, or panicked because he was getting his ass kicked and fell off a building or shot a TOW point blank.

if you panic/fall/TOW fired into the wall, then it's your problem. Learn to play better. It makes no sense to encourage such actions. And even more to extract from them the benefit (as it works now). This disadvantage can simply be removed, and no need to reinvent the wheel.

[RisorialScion]

As I said. No need to add another abusive option. Just let suicide count as normal kill to whoever did the most damage and that's that. Way better than detracting score.

[Dread_Lord_Pitr]

MedioMorde, on January 25 2013 - 10:00 AM, said:

Dread_Lord_Pitr, on January 23 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

You do realise that it usually isn't intentional, right _
If i had to count the times i tried to shoot someone with a TOW and end up killing them AND myself, or just killing myself instead of them...
It happens, it sucks, deal with it.

In either case, a team should be punished for their incompetence or cowardice, rather than technicaly being rewarded.

So a TEAM needs to be punished if there is a newbie on their side _
You must either be incredibly stupid to suggest this, or you want this game to become SRSBSNSS, in which case i suggest you take your silly fanaticism to some proper combat simulation game, where they would appreciate such nonsense

[robotokom]

Dread_Lord_Pitr, on January 25 2013 - 11:53 PM, said:

MedioMorde, on January 25 2013 - 10:00 AM, said:

Dread_Lord_Pitr, on January 23 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

You do realise that it usually isn't intentional, right _
If i had to count the times i tried to shoot someone with a TOW and end up killing them AND myself, or just killing myself instead of them...
It happens, it sucks, deal with it.

In either case, a team should be punished for their incompetence or cowardice, rather than technicaly being rewarded.

So a TEAM needs to be punished if there is a newbie on their side _
You must either be incredibly stupid to suggest this, or you want this game to become SRSBSNSS, in which case i suggest you take your silly fanaticism to some proper combat simulation game, where they would appreciate such nonsense

dread is right this game is for kids not for people who can behave them selves just have fun and try not to think wile you are dodging it will slow you down.

[Dread_Lord_Pitr]

robotokom, on January 25 2013 - 11:59 PM, said:

dread is right this game is for kids not for people who can behave them selves just have fun and try not to think wile you are dodging it will slow you down.

This game caters to just about everyone as it stands, casual players can have fun, and so can more competitive folks if they wish to.
Turning it into MWO 2.0 will not make it a better game.
You want to take the mechanic of suicide out _
Then tell the devs to fix it.
Punishing ANY player for what amounts to a design flaw is NOT the answer.

[nepacaka]

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As I said. No need to add another abusive option. Just let suicide count as normal kill to whoever did the most damage and that's that. Way better than detracting score.

there is another problem, as with an assist if the enemy does not get damaged during ~ 10 seconds. Since he lost an assist, and if he commits suicide after successfully escape. No one will get any experience or frag.
As you can see, your proposed solution to the problem is not perfect =(.

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Then tell the devs to fix it.

I start this topic, and also wrote a proposal to the hawken tech-support.

In any case, if the developers are planning to enter clan wars (and the like), they need to get rid of intentional suicide. Maybe you have not met with such cases, but the meeting of 25 lvl experienced player, he is 99% of the use of this tactic. And to win it (ahead on points) I have to do so too. Otherwise, I just lose on points

[RisorialScion]

nepacaka, on January 26 2013 - 12:35 AM, said:

there is another problem, as with an assist if the enemy does not get damaged during ~ 10 seconds. Since he lost an assist, and if he commits suicide after successfully escape. No one will get any experience or frag.
As you can see, your proposed solution to the problem is not perfect =(.

Yours isn't either, so what_ Even if he is doing this, his team is at an disadvantage as they basically lose a team member for at least 15 seconds in a fight. Don't want this to turn into another lame-a$$ FPS because 'essential game mechanics found in every other game must be included'
I had my fair share in those and the concerns I raised about your idea are what I witnessed already. No, thanks.

[CGBartram]

Yep seen this happen a few times, oh well part of the game.

I admit i do it too both intentional and accidentally .
So could award the last person who damaged the mech to gain the kill like from Tribes for example.

[alreadyded]

I have gotten assists even if they die well after ten seconds. I always assumed you lose the assist when they repair themselves. Even so you CHANGE it so they do get credit for the assist, and of course the kill. Pay attention.

I don't see this on US West, all suicides are quite clearly accidental and fairly rare in my games. The player that commits suicide still dies and gets a death in their stats... even if you just switch teams without dying you still get a death in your stats... so why "punish" them two times_ And how does that fix the problem_ Why not actually fix what you are complaining about and simply give credit for kills and assists_

Edited by alreadyded, January 26 2013 - 04:36 PM.

[Hirito]

I agree that there should be a penalty. I went a whole game with no kills because of it. It sucks when you do all that work to get em and they go . . . um no and blow themselves up.
However I do think that there should be a self destruct function for those cases so that you try to ram the attacker to at least take you both out, thus cancelling any penalty(if successful).

And as for those unintentional occasions, well you'll learn quickly enough after you blow yourself up and lose points.

[Dread_Lord_Pitr]

Hirito, on January 26 2013 - 04:38 PM, said:

And as for those unintentional occasions, well you'll learn quickly enough after you blow yourself up and lose points.

Yes, because there are 0 accidents, it's not possible to accidentally be too close to the enemy, especially if it's an A-Class who's trying to come and give you a hug, because that never ever happens, nor do Brawlers do this, or Cupcakes...

[alreadyded]

Let us not forget teammates dodging in front of your TOW or Hellfires... and don't give me that "play more carefully fuzzy bunny" because you cant see them and they can't see you. Even if they could (which they can't see to their side and look forward) do you really expect them to time your shots in the heat of battle_ No, they are too busy fighting just like you. A lot of peeps don't even notice when they jump in front of an allies shot as it doesn't affect you in any way.

[P4THF1ND3R]

The amount of times a teammate has dashed in front of me before I fire a tow, grenade, or anything, and get killed by it,  is countless. No, I would not like to be penalized for something that isn't my fault. If anything, shooting a teammate accidentally and killing yourself should be called something else instead of a suicide, because it isn't a suicide. Something like betrayal like in Halo. Where no points get taken off for anything, but both the other teammate and you know what happened and can deal with it.