134 replies to this topic

[Frouste]

I think that they already did make "Crion." Origin

Edited by Frouste, March 26 2013 - 01:25 PM.

[Timber_Wolf]

Sylhiri, on March 26 2013 - 01:11 PM, said:

StutterStep, on March 26 2013 - 12:55 PM, said:

Do you really think if one side lacks firepower, a healer is going to make a difference_  What happens when the team with heavier firepower chooses to add their own healer_  You're back to square one.

What I am saying is if you take a team with 6 mechs (6 firepower) and replace on of those mechs with a tech (5 firepower, 1 support) that it should be just the same as 6 firepower since i'm pretty sure you can only support one mech at a time (depends on CD, etc.). By having one support it doesn't make your team worse for not having one, just different. From that you can have different play styles and tactics as long as 1 support = 1 firepower.

There should be no heavier firepower, if a class has more damaging weapons then the rest then that is overpowered and should be toned down with the rest. That's really no different then team A going against team B cept that team B has mech/s that do more damage, even if the tech was never created such a scenario shouldn't happen.

But fights aren't fought and then won, with casualties just dropping out when they reach 0 health.
Players are able to leave and heal, and knowing when to do that, and when you need to stay and fight to let the three people that are healing live and win, and when you have to die, is important and is what can really decide fights.  Having a C class mech with higher DPS weapons is allowable because of their lack of mobility and higher repair times.  Meaning it's harder to get into a fight for optimal position, and harder to leave a fight, unless you leave sooner.
Besides that, it's not necessarily 6v5, the healer mech still has offensive options, and those offensive options double as a debuff, increasing the damage that they receive.  If the DPS ont he RSMC is comparable to the current SMC it's workable, especially with the debuff.

Also factor in you can essential allow a mech to not have to retreat for an extended period of time at the beginning of a fight, especially a good initiator mech like a raider, or get mechs back into the fight faster as they start taking turns rotating out to heal.  The team without the healer has six firepower initially, but at any given point might have 3 healing, while the other team with, as you said, five firepower, starts out with an enemy debuffed and maybe 1 healing at any given point in time.

Team fights in Hawken aren't won in seconds, they're usually won over longer, drawn out engagements where people leave to heal.  The healer mech absolutely swings the favor in his team's favor.

[hendman]

[HWK]HUGHES, on March 26 2013 - 11:53 AM, said:

Cpt_Kill_Jack, on March 26 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:

Sylhiri, on March 26 2013 - 11:46 AM, said:

[HWK]HUGHES, on March 26 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

The upcoming map is officially called FRONT LINE, not Valk as Valk was just an internal name.

Time for a Petition to get it named Valkyrie as the map name that is displayed then. Or were you talking about the map that was used in the Physx demo Hughes_

The demo map has no name, I was indeed speaking about the new map. It's called FRONT LINE because Prosk is essentially on one side of the map and Sentium on the other... Two distinct environment styles with the AA right smack in the middle.

Sounds like a new siege map to me.........finally

[curlupanddie]

Sylhiri, on March 26 2013 - 12:23 PM, said:

Hocisern, on March 26 2013 - 12:17 PM, said:

EOC direct dmg too fuzzy bunny

Most of the damage (180) comes from explosive mines...

Direct impact damage is 30, lol.

As a pretty good heat scout, whenever I see these numbers posted I just go:


Seriously, 210 for burst on a primary is ri-goddamndiculous. IB4 "takes skill" doesn't take 2X as much skill as heat cannon (2X being the damage difference).

I vote for Kerby Chassis as well, if it's not too late already.

Edited by curlupanddie, March 26 2013 - 01:34 PM.

[Beemann]

Sylhiri, on March 26 2013 - 01:11 PM, said:

What I am saying is if you take a team with 6 mechs (6 firepower) and replace on of those mechs with a tech (5 firepower, 1 support) that it should be just the same as 6 firepower since i'm pretty sure you can only support one mech at a time (depends on CD, etc.). By having one support it doesn't make your team worse for not having one, just different. From that you can have different play styles and tactics as long as 1 support = 1 firepower.

There should be no heavier firepower, if a class has more damaging weapons then the rest then that is overpowered and should be toned down with the rest. That's really no different then team A going against team B cept that team B has mech/s that do more damage, even if the tech was never created such a scenario shouldn't happen.

That's never really the case in shooters though, because the healer fills a niche that literally no other class can pull off. With awkward manoeuvring and a little bit of skill you can fight with the SS in CQC, defend S2 as a berserker, or any number of other things
But those classes cannot turn to an ally, hold down a mouse button, and watch their health go up. The only thing that comes close is the ability to, once every minute or so, drop a repair charge... but even that needs to get looked at as there's some very broken uses for that item

[Vitinary]

Wow, they actually did nerf those walls.

[Sylhiri]

Timber_Wolf, on March 26 2013 - 01:27 PM, said:

But fights aren't fought and then won, with casualties just dropping out when they reach 0 health.
Players are able to leave and heal, and knowing when to do that, and when you need to stay and fight to let the three people that are healing live and win, and when you have to die, is important and is what can really decide fights.  Having a C class mech with higher DPS weapons is allowable because of their lack of mobility and higher repair times.  Meaning it's harder to get into a fight for optimal position, and harder to leave a fight, unless you leave sooner.
Besides that, it's not necessarily 6v5, the healer mech still has offensive options, and those offensive options double as a debuff, increasing the damage that they receive.  If the DPS ont he RSMC is comparable to the current SMC it's workable, especially with the debuff.

Also factor in you can essential allow a mech to not have to retreat for an extended period of time at the beginning of a fight, especially a good initiator mech like a raider, or get mechs back into the fight faster as they start taking turns rotating out to heal.  The team without the healer has six firepower initially, but at any given point might have 3 healing, while the other team with, as you said, five firepower, starts out with an enemy debuffed and maybe 1 healing at any given point in time.

Team fights in Hawken aren't won in seconds, they're usually won over longer, drawn out engagements where people leave to heal.  The healer mech absolutely swings the favor in his team's favor.

You make some interesting points but it all depends on the stats of the weapons themselves. I guess I'm an optimist when it comes to adding more of a support role as our current support roles are lacking. To me it looks like the healing ability is a secondary weapon rather then a primary, so it will be interesting to see how it works if that's the case.

Edited by Sylhiri, March 26 2013 - 01:59 PM.

[TheLostVikings]

[HWK]HUGHES, on March 26 2013 - 11:53 AM, said:

The demo map has no name, I was indeed speaking about the new map. It's called FRONT LINE because Prosk is essentially on one side of the map and Sentium on the other... Two distinct environment styles with the AA right smack in the middle.

New siege map. New siege map! Neeeeeeeeeeeew siege maaaaaaaaaaaappppppppppp!

[RedVan]

The technician class will be able to repair walls correct_  I mean, why not... it would add something to gameplay that someone else just heartlessly destroyed...

Or even let them repair shields...  It would give them something to do other than just sitting in the back holding down fire while pointing at a brawler in turret mode on a repair charge.  Allowing them to do more than repair mechs could be interesting.


Also, finally walls wont be OP...  stuck on one_  Just kill it before it kills you.

Edited by RedVan, March 26 2013 - 02:20 PM.

[Guiotine]

And we were taking "walls OP" as a joke....

[Sylhiri]

TheLostVikings, on March 26 2013 - 02:02 PM, said:

New siege map. New siege map! Neeeeeeeeeeeew siege maaaaaaaaaaaappppppppppp!

*Turns out it was just a MA map like Facility*

Bahahahahaha.

[Pirits]

Walls were too O.P.

Now to nerf buildings, right after I get a tech. Will I need a fancy graphics card to play with breaking walls_

[_Caffeine_]

I imagine you'll be see holes being knocked out of walls but need PhysX on to see the chunks falling away.

[Cpt_Kill_Jack]

_Caffeine_, on March 26 2013 - 03:53 PM, said:

I imagine you'll be see holes being knocked out of walls but need PhysX on to see the chunks falling away.

To be honest without physx they would need DX 10 or 11.

The Tech will change the game and we will adapt or die. When you see it moving with another much or a group make it the priority. But that chassis needs to be changed to the kerby.

[ShadowWarg]

I wonder if they will have to rework the maps that are out now in order to use the destructible environments for them... or if the existing maps will have it at all.

[Timber_Wolf]

Sylhiri, on March 26 2013 - 01:57 PM, said:

You make some interesting points but it all depends on the stats of the weapons themselves. I guess I'm an optimist when it comes to adding more of a support role as our current support roles are lacking. To me it looks like the healing ability is a secondary weapon rather then a primary, so it will be interesting to see how it works if that's the case.

I agree, we won't know until we know, and you can count me among those who hopes it's not silly or that there's some arbitrary rule set in place where you can only be healed by one source at a time or something.  I too want a support role for Hawken, but healing might not be the best, even if the most obvious, choice.

But if what I quoted from the article is true, being able to repair faster than you can repair normally, or even at the same rate, seems way too high and that it would be a continual fire weapon.
It's probably the secondary, but that doesn't mean it can't be a continual fire secondary, even though we haven't seen one before.  That seems the most logical to me for a repair-laser-thing-a-do-dad.

Edit:  Also, the above idea for being able to only heal from one thing at a time, would potentially counter most of the obvious abuse, like brawler turret + heals.  But it seems like such a... weird.. band-aidy fix...

Edited by Timber_Wolf, March 26 2013 - 04:33 PM.

[Guiotine]

Personally, I hope the nanobot rifle heats up about as fast as the Vulcan, if not faster. Especially if it heals faster than you repair. But, we must wait and see.

Edited by Guiotine, March 26 2013 - 05:04 PM.

[labmice00]

Guiotine, on March 26 2013 - 01:12 PM, said:

ReachH, on March 26 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

The old internal names were indeed much better, with the possible exception of Prosk.

I am still waiting for a map named Sentium. Possibly Crion as well.

There is a map named Sentium in the game files. It is also called "Highways".

[tman7919]

Me: YEAH NEW MAP!
Then me: After seeing the technician.

[hendman]

I know we are playing/testing a beta version of hawken, but if the devs intended to have a "healer" mech in the game, shouldn't it have been ingame from the start_ Seems a bit strange that people have been developing strategies and playstyles, only to find the game alter completely at this point.

Further more, all the balancing of the past has been a waste of effort. Maybe with a healer ingame we need even higher burst damage then before, while at this point i think it is safe to say we could do with less.