160 replies to this topic

[karnak]

You have no sense of humor man.

[nepacaka]

Quote

You have no sense of humor man.

sometimes it's just mistranslation. if you use sarcasm or joke I probably need to re-read the message twice to understand it.
especially if the sentence is complex.
sorry :}

google-translate not laughs.

in my defense I can say that I have sense of humor. you would know it if you read my guides in steam :Ъ. but guides on Russian lang. XD

i re-read your message mr.karnak, at first I thought that you support nept point of view. sry again.

Edited by nepacaka, May 23 2014 - 11:53 AM.

[karnak]

Do not worry, you have nothing to apologize for.

[Meraple]

karnak, on May 23 2014 - 05:37 AM, said:

MY EARS

[JackxData]

should only be used in class A (light mechs) and you can add it as a internal to class B and C

[Spliff_Craven]

As it is a mobility item and anyone having it equipped has a distinct advantage over one who does not.

Make it a permanent addition to all mech classes and not a buy to win item which it currently is{we can use the slots for something else}.

[Meraple]

Spliff_Craven, on July 20 2014 - 12:01 AM, said:

As it is a mobility item and anyone having it equipped has a distinct advantage over one who does not.

Make it a permanent addition to all mech classes and not a buy to win item which it currently is{we can use the slots for something else}.

It's not even buy to win.
You can do fine without it.

Yes, people who have it have an advantage over people who don't.
Thing is, Air Compressor takes alot of Internal slots, and most mechs don't even need it.
I'd say it's fairly balanced.

[Kovec]

Everyone is doing them, there's nothing bad about doing them. Even fattis do them. And thats the reason why no one is using EOC now. you can't put them on the flood for traps cause everyone just flyes over them.

Edited by Kovec, July 20 2014 - 12:29 PM.

[Spliff_Craven]

Meraple, on July 20 2014 - 12:22 AM, said:

Spliff_Craven, on July 20 2014 - 12:01 AM, said:

As it is a mobility item and anyone having it equipped has a distinct advantage over one who does not.

Make it a permanent addition to all mech classes and not a buy to win item which it currently is{we can use the slots for something else}.

It's not even buy to win.
You can do fine without it.

Yes, people who have it have an advantage over people who don't.
Thing is, Air Compressor takes alot of Internal slots, and most mechs don't even need it.
I'd say it's fairly balanced.

Yes you can do ok without it.

Yet you clearly admit that people that have them have an advantage over those that don't.
You also point out it takes up a lot of internal slots and yet claim most mechs don't need it.

A statement of "fairly balanced" hardly applies.

The point I am trying to make is what you illustrated.
There is a mobility advantage
It takes up slots used for other items {assuming most mechs don't need it}

The only logical conclusion is to allow all mechs this device by default or remove it from all mechs entirely.
I fell this would free up the spots for other better balanced internals and remove the mobility advantage.
This is better balance.

[Artist]

Spliff_Craven, on July 20 2014 - 10:50 PM, said:

[...]

The only logical conclusion is to allow all mechs this device by default or remove it from all mechs entirely.
I fell this would free up the spots for other better balanced internals and remove the mobility advantage.
This is better balance.

I'd like you to explain the "logic" that brought you to this conclusion, I just don't see it.  
If A > B and B > C then A > C, that is an exemple of logic.

"You have to trade internal slots for a situational advantage, so let's make it default or remove it entirely", is not.

Edited by Artist, July 20 2014 - 11:44 PM.

[Spliff_Craven]

As light mechs already have a speed advantage Having airdodge just enhances this effect.
As it is a mobility advantage it forces players to sacrifice slots to be competitive.

Advantage = Air Attack ---> TOW splash damage triggered by impact {TOW hits ground}.
Advantage = Air Defence ---> TOW splash damage triggered by pilot {TOW must be detonated in proximity by attacker}
Disadvantage = Ground mechs going airborne ---> without Airdodge are sitting ducks

There are others but 3 point and you get the gist...
Mobility is an advantage that should be shared by all and not a bolt on item.
It's the only way to equate a mobility equilibrium.

Personally, I like Airdodge as it adds dimension to the game but I still stand by my statement.
All or nothing. It's only fair.

[Artist]

This is flawed. Your premise here is that speed and mobility are unfair. The conclusion is to have all the mechs travel at the same speed and access all the moves. If we follow this, all differences are unfair, and we should all have the same mechs ...

You're also saying that being in the air is an advantage, and so is not being in the air. So what_ (Also: you trade advantage when you go airborne: you're easier to target but land more splash damage, it's a strategic choice and it add depth. Using AC just adds an other choice: do I sacrifice slots and fuel to retain some advantage in that first trade, at the risk of being at a disadvantage in other situations_)
Plus you should not be flying any way, a jump (even using inertia to make you less easy to track) is enough to shoot your splash weapon (TOWs don't even need height advantage with the use or airbursts, trading micro for positioning), hovering is bad. AC just make it less bad for a short while.

Finally A classes are quite slow when they fly (like scouts), the AC is more of way for them to conserve their mobility advantage in the air,rather that adding on it.

Disclamer: I do not use AC on any of my mechs.

Edited by Artist, July 21 2014 - 10:15 PM.

[Spliff_Craven]

Artist, on July 21 2014 - 10:13 PM, said:

This is flawed. Your premise here is that speed and mobility are unfair. The conclusion is to have all the mechs travel at the same speed and access all the moves. If we follow this, all differences are unfair, and we should all have the same mechs ...

You're also saying that being in the air is an advantage, and so is not being in the air. So what_ (Also: you trade advantage when you go airborne: you're easier to target but land more splash damage, it's a strategic choice and it add depth. Using AC just adds an other choice: do I sacrifice slots and fuel to retain some advantage in that first trade, at the risk of being at a disadvantage in other situations_)
Plus you should not be flying any way, a jump (even using inertia to make you less easy to track) is enough to shoot your splash weapon (TOWs don't even need height advantage with the use or airbursts, trading micro for positioning), hovering is bad. AC just make it less bad for a short while.

Finally A classes are quite slow when they fly (like scouts), the AC is more of way for them to conserve their mobility advantage in the air,rather that adding on it.

Disclamer: I do not use AC on any of my mechs.

I agree to disagree in the interest of topic progression.

[Terr_]

IMO this is really four questions getting tangled together:

• Is AC generally too-useful compared to other 3-slot internals_
  
• Does the gameplay AC introduces help or harm the overall system and theme_
  
• Is AC too-good in any specific situations_ Does a reasonable (and fun) counter exist_
  
• Should AC be available at a lower pilot-rank_

[Odinous]

As u climb your mmr u will see that C's rule the world,though C's without AC(Well maybe some using them on C frames but its personal taste),so I dont get it why should every mech have it on default,for some mechs its useless and spending those slots with something else is better..
Plus it consumes enough fuel,so just w8 for those A's to get to the ground..

Edited by Odinous, July 22 2014 - 10:02 AM.

[Meraple]

My opinion about C classes with Air Compressor:

Incinerator and Vanguard work well with Air Compressor thanks to their mobility.
Brawler and Grenadier can use the slots for other stuff since they really need all of that space.

I don't use homing weaponry so I don't have anything to say about Rocketeer.

/opinion

[Ade_the_Rare]

Terr_, on July 22 2014 - 09:24 AM, said:

IMO this is really four questions getting tangled together:

• Is AC generally too-useful compared to other 3-slot internals_
  
  
• Does the gameplay AC introduces help or harm the overall system and theme_
  
  
• Is AC too-good in any specific situations_ Does a reasonable (and fun) counter exist_
  
  
• Should AC be available at a lower pilot-rank_

1. Yup
2. Depends which end of it you're on
3. In midair / another AC
4. Probably; it does suck if you can't get it and others can

As for high MMR games, I don't know

[Infyrno]

nepacaka, on May 21 2014 - 09:05 AM, said:

i think i find good solution for Air-Dodge.
just make AD for 7 slots.
problem solved.


edit: some internals...

Where can i get a basic *insert name of first internal*

Edited by Infyrno, July 23 2014 - 12:05 AM.

[Dohka]

Personally I think the AC should be removed from the game. I like the dodge but not the mid air dodge. Some of the smaller mechs are like trying to catch a fly. Or make a recharge time for the AC something longer than the currently dodge cooldown. Keep the dodge cooldown low for the smaller mechs that makes sense but the mid air dodge from AC should have a higher cooldown.

[SKamikazee]

There should be no air suppiority, ground vs air should be balanced. Currently taking to the skies is unquestionably superior in every fashion when facing (pun intended) a grounded adversary. Finally, air combat should not be a focus in a bipedal mech shooter, so the rebuttal of, "put air compressor in every mech and fight air vs air", is a bit off putting, personally speaking.