164 replies to this topic

[Silverfire]

Just point of clairifcation, Reloaded runs the game, not G1. G1 has little to no oversight on Hawken. Owned and operated purely by Reloaded.

And I guess I wasn't clear enough, I must clarify. What I meant is that the game shouldn't hit its skill cap, give the players the max ceiling at 10 hours. I think you clairified my point. As for the showing the ceiling, there's plenty of high tier video footage out there.

And there's much more than 200-600 players in the game. We're seeing unique user logins in the thousands per day, and the number seems to be on the rise slowly and steadily.

And I think you've caught a case of "if it's not great for me, then it's the same for all new users," which is frankly not true. It's a pity that you didn't have a good time, and that's okay. Playerbase has changed so much because of rapidly changing and hugely changing balance across the board. The devs need to stick to something and do it, not change their mind all the time.

[CraftyDus]

Sry to disappoint you, but no hawken is not, there is no true and unique stuff in hawken, evertyhing hawken has already existed. The only thing hawken does, is wrap it in a unique setting of skins. And with those few 100's of players. And in 10 years this game will mostlikely not exist anymore, if no dev does create a standalone version of it.

 

Lol.

 

Well thanks for the summation of how this game is not unique or "true".

Also thanks for your predictions.

 

You strike me a bit too green to have enough perspective on the ebb and flow of online pc gaming to make reservations on the experiences I've shared in that regard.

 

Plus you play MWO. Ew.

Spoiler

 

Forgive me for leveling that your beloved MWO is mind numbingly bad. 

I honestly don't understand how people can stand it. It's so god awfully slow.

Sorry you don't like Hawken. But I think your game is disturbingly crappy.

I might also question the mental acuity of someone with over 6,000 posts on the MWO forums.

 

So

Thanks for sharing.

[dorobo]

Advertising hawken as a regular shooter like many others will not bring more people in but making Hawken in to what it is advertised for Would. I think.

[Dr_Freeze001]

-snip-

 

 

I get the feeling you wrote that reply in haste because you feel that your opinion has been attacked. Everybody has their opinion and they are bound to clash, but keep in mind you come to the HAWKEN forums to give feedback and now you are on the verge of insulting the entire HAWKEN playerbase. Look, bad things happen when you give your opinion as fact. It has happened before and it will happen again. Simply because you don't like the game doesn't mean it's a bad game.

 

 

I get that you're trying to bring a point across, and I appreciate that aspect of this thread. But straight up calling HAWKEN a bad game with no originality and denying other players their opinion, Dustin's quote, is something we will not accept.

 

 

Back up a bit and start again. State the facts, and after that state your opinion.

 

This is the sentence you should be focusing on: "The game presents itself in the most boring way I have seen the past years. And this is a rather simple issue to address and change." Tell us why and how to fix it and we'll be on our way. "This is because, in my honest opinion,..."

 

 

Cheers, 

Freeze

[Lily_from_animove]

Just point of clairifcation, Reloaded runs the game, not G1. G1 has little to no oversight on Hawken. Owned and operated purely by Reloaded.

 

Relaoded Games is the big company, which includes Gamersfirst as the publishing portal and reloaded productions as the Developer team. And everyone and his mom says G1 simply because its easy to use and actually the publisher tahts visible everywhere.

http://www.gamersfirst.com/?q=de

http://www.reloadedinc.com/

 

And I think you've caught a case of "if it's not great for me, then it's the same for all new users," which is frankly not true. It's a pity that you didn't have a good time, and that's okay. Playerbase has changed so much because of rapidly changing and hugely changing balance across the board. The devs need to stick to something and do it, not change their mind all the time.

 

I could agree if the steam graph may be different, but the steam graph indicates two major things: a load of people streaming in at the time of hawkens appearance. A ton of them left rather isntantly and past that a steady decline happened until G1 RG took over causing a bit fuzz

 

look at apb: http://steamcharts.com/app/113400#All

That is the curve of a game where the playerbase reacts on changes and events. Depending on how well they are done. But hawken lacks this. And so you are wrong, those rapid changes you speak of may have happend, yet the graph indicated they had no direct impact on the playerbase. he stats tell this very clearly.

 

Lol.

 

Well thanks for the summation of how this game is not unique or "true".

Also thanks for your predictions.

 

You strike me a bit too green to have enough perspective on the ebb and flow of online pc gaming to make reservations on the experiences I've shared in that regard.

 

Plus you play MWO. Ew.

Spoiler

 

Forgive me for leveling that your beloved MWO is mind numbingly bad. 

I honestly don't understand how people can stand it. It's so god awfully slow.

Sorry you don't like Hawken. But I think your game is disturbingly crappy.

I might also question the mental acuity of someone with over 6,000 posts on the MWO forums.

 

So

Thanks for sharing.

 

sry mom told me not to feed trolls, So we see us later when maturity and objectivity may have awoken in you.

[AngryOgre]

This thread is amazing. Yeah! Keep attacking the OP, that'll generate positive buzz for sure.

#sarcasm

[Silverfire]

I've been told (by capnjosh) that the G1 side of things will not be interfering with Hawken's development with Reloaded. Even if they may be one company, the two branches are separate, and Reloaded is the side with the say, not G1. Again, I can't tell how legit your statement is, but publishing (the marketing people) won't be influencing the game development of the game.

Steamcharts only tell of a time when Hawken was on steam. The game had sweeping meta changes several times before it hit Steam. The only spike you see isn't the only one that has existed due to the fact that Steam charts only show Hawken when on steam, not before. There was not much change in content from Steam charts to now, therefore you don't see the rise and fall of the graph. It is thus unfair to judge Hawken based on Steam charts because it only shows a very small part of Hawken's total lifespan. So unfortunately you are wrong there only because you don't have the full picture, you don't have the rest of the data. Kind of like basing the conclusion of a yearlong study solely on one week of the year. You get a small chunk of the picture, not the whole thing. It's not your fault though, you are new to the game.

I must reiterate this, don't state your opinion as fact. Just be careful about how you post lest you upset a lot of the player base, something that would be nice to avoid. We aren't attacking your posts (for the most part), just trying to break down the reasons and points of discussion. When "attacks" do come, it's because some feel that you are stating opinion as fact and that's not okay.

Keep it coming though, you've interesting points to say the least.

[CraftyDus]

sry mom told me not to feed trolls, So we see us later when maturity and objectivity may have awoken in you.

 

You haven't moved one minute beyond the little you have run around the other day in an assault poking noobs who don't shoot back.

Listen, I'd rather not believe you are the sort who prefers playing at internet forum over actually playing video games.

 

But you've officially spent more time posting on Hawken forums than in the game of Hawken playing.

No matter how much maturity and objectivity awaken in me, I doubt anyone'll be seeing much of you outside of a forum posting.

Now or later.

GG

Edited by Dustin, 29 April 2015 - 06:56 AM.

[Dedhed]

I agree with (KDR) Dr_Freeze: the OP started off with more thought put into posts and I'd like to see that continue/return.

 

To Lily_from_animove: it's understandable that you're getting drawn into a more divisive, less constructive mode of conversation considering some of the replies. The best way to not do so is to simply focus on the replies that are reasonable and constructive even though they may disagree. Ignore the others, you're not going to change any minds there.

 

Also, the game is clearly growing and many find something unique that does hook them. For me, it's a combination of the art style, movement and combat mechanics.

 

Hawken is not perfect and certainly needs improvement. Negative replies to newcomers do not give a good impression of the current community. One of the first things the new devs said about the Hawken community was that it's one of the best in the industry. It would be sad for that to change and would certainly not help the game to grow.

 

An attitude of "you don't like it, leave" and fear of criticism is not going to help Hawken. What that can do, however, is potentially cut it off from new lifeblood. I hope no one here wants to see that.

 

*Edit* Dustin does have a point here. I think it's very important to not fall into posting more than playing if one is going to have real experience with the game.

Edited by Dedhed, 29 April 2015 - 07:03 AM.

[Lily_from_animove]

I get the feeling you wrote that reply in haste because you feel that your opinion has been attacked. Everybody has their opinion and they are bound to clash, but keep in mind you come to the HAWKEN forums to give feedback and now you are on the verge of insulting the entire HAWKEN playerbase. Look, bad things happen when you give your opinion as fact. It has happened before and it will happen again. Simply because you don't like the game doesn't mean it's a bad game.

 

 

I get that you're trying to bring a point across, and I appreciate that aspect of this thread. But straight up calling HAWKEN a bad game with no originality and denying other players their opinion, Dustin's quote, is something we will not accept.

 

 

Back up a bit and start again. State the facts, and after that state your opinion.

 

This is the sentence you should be focusing on: "The game presents itself in the most boring way I have seen the past years. And this is a rather simple issue to address and change." Tell us why and how to fix it and we'll be on our way. "This is because, in my honest opinion,..."

 

 

Cheers, 

Freeze

 

I always type rather hasty, and mostly many typos happens when forums don't have a spellcheck integrated.

I do also not feel attacked in any way.

And My opinion is the one my friends have as well. Surely you can say its my opinion only. But then what about all the other gamers that once spiked the games population to over 8k?

The game is badly advertised, which does not imply it is a bad game. It does a bad job keeping people motivated, and this is not only an opinion, thats what you can clearly read in the steam player stats. Otherwise care to explain what cased this? They are objectively judged: catastrophic. 2 month and only a qurter population is left. 7 month to 10% of its original spike. I can not remember ever having seen a steam chart like this. But instantly as I saw this chart I knew by the way what I experienced testing the game and what my freinds told me, why it looks like this. But would hawken be as great as you all think, then I should have the reaction "I wonder why this stats look like this, makes no sense to me"  And at this point you as the playerbase should think about: "Is hawken truly as great and unique as I think or is it just my personal hype?" Some of you say "it's fine and has a steady palyerbase". Well it's steady, true, but fine? With hat low amount? That is not fine, No matter how much I would love a game, but I would never ever tell me "my game is fine" with this amount of playerbase. I would be woried every day that someone could make the decidion to shut it down. Surely, at this moment, freshly aquired by G1 it will not, because they gonna try to save it for now. But the game can not stay with this amount of playerbase. And this is not an opinion. Thats business. And buisness wise the charts will tell you: "this is a bad game" because business judges the success of a game, not the epic features it may have or not.

 

And so I can just turn that stick around and ask you: You think hawken is great and unique? THAT is an opinion, because the majority of people does not see this. And tell me about the unqiue features of hawken. Because the truth is, like it or not, it has nearly none, if any at all. And when the "unique" stuff reveals by having played 100's of hours first, sry but this is then a unique turnout of the mix a game has, but true unique core featres do not exist. Why is that now "attacking the playerbase" if one tells them its not unique?

 

So list me all the unqiue features hawken has, I want to see and know them. Everything I come across in its mechancis it is, is something I have seen before. And Unique, shouldn't that mean I am here "oh thats something I have not seen before" or did I missed the moment someone changed themeaning of the term "unique"?

There are tons of games out there that are not unique and it is not a problem at all, to not beeing unique. So why feel people confronted with the "you are not unique" somehow attacked? I don't get that.

 

And if you can not tell any new player anything else than "play 100+ hours" about what is great and unique, you should already recognize that something important is missing.

 

Things the game can do to be a bit more exciting and probably catching? I gave some in the OP.

 

Well wepaon reskins, same mechanics, but different designs. People need to see  -while testing- the stuff they can get and WANT TO ACHIEVE and they need to get the feeling that playing this game either gives them the chance to get this, or to proceed to this achievement.

 

Cool, my mechlevel unlocks new parts, yet none of this parts is paintable with the colorbar available. Which instantly dropped any of my needs to aquire any of the other parts. To hook people up, you need a bait. And hawken has no juicy big ones. Thats why my friends do actualyl not know why they have no interest yet with it being a "decent game". Because hawkens motivation lacks. And teling people to get to 100+ games before something exciting may happen is not how you bait and hook up players. And this is the main part of the game that needs work.

 

 

so to anyone here:

 

Tell me why the steam chart looks like this (and no development lazyness is not what makes players leave in the first month already).

List me 3 unique things Hawken has.

 

@Silverfire: marketing does have an influence because marketing makes the stuff being sold, which has to be developed as well, and the marketing part normally makes the business case behind every decision. So saying G1 will not have any influence is something I doubt to be true. and the steam chart still applies to be a part of judgement, because with coming to steam, its like an entirely new release for the game. People that have not played it before enter the game. And for them they do not know about a possible borked history. For them its like a brand new released game that is judged freshly from the ground. And the appearence of the game on the g1 page is having a similar, yet lower effect. And meta changes? Do you think those 8k players that mostlikely have spend 10ish or 20ish hours truly ever entered the meta? meta changes at the point of a testing players decisions do hardly apply, because these players do not enter the metagame at all. The issues of this game start way way before the endgame and its meta.

Edited by Lily_from_animove, 29 April 2015 - 07:13 AM.

[CraftyDus]

Isn't this distracting you from writing up some MWO guides for the steam rollout?

Looking forward to seeing those steam charts a year after.

[Lily_from_animove]

You haven't moved one minute beyond the little you have run around the other day in an assault poking noobs who don't shoot back.

Listen, I'd rather not believe you are the sort who prefers playing at internet forum over actually playing video games.

 

But you've officially spent more time posting on Hawken forums than in the game of Hawken playing.

No matter how much maturity and objectivity awaken in me, I doubt anyone'll be seeing much of you outside of a forum posting.

Now or later.

GG

 

with the current state of the game, quite unlikely.

I want you guys to udnerstand what happens in new players, because that is what your game needs to survive and develop. And it does not care what amazing superepic experience you have in this game, because that will not change the experience for the newbies unles you organise some nice newbie events where you are going to let them play against each other, and probably actively teach them some tactics.

But people testing games, will not go there by their own because they are too new not even knowing where to find that And forums house only a minirity of a games playerbase, so do not expect them to go there, especially not when testing the game.

 

 

 

Isn't this distracting you from writing up some MWO guides for the steam rollout?

Looking forward to seeing those steam charts a year after.

 

They will be fine, I am quite sure, at least if PGI keeps the course they have now. They have regular events, new maps and mechs come in since they threw the old publisher aboard. And the current prime time hooks an average playercount of 2k+ players online with the event going on. MWO has its very own sets of issues, some quite important. Yet lets see if the steam release curve will have a similar shape as the hawken ones around 7 month after Steam release.

 

And no I am not going to write any guides. Thats what the native english speakers can do way better.

 

But lets talk about motivation and money. I played APB and spend a few hundred $ there, maybe 300. simply because the game constantly gave me things I wanted to have,  and APB has in its core quite some big issues from the point of "is it a good game" Yet it has somethign truly unqiue, the customisation. And it offered stuff I wanted. However I rarely play it anymore, because I have now the stuff I want nd since G1 is too lazy to increas eplayers inventories (because cars, songs and cloth have limited space to put them into). All the stuff now available makes no sense. Because I have to drop stuff I bought. So APB went boring because there is no goal for me left there.

 

MWO on the other side I spent more money there than in APB even, but MWO has a different motivation. I spend most of the time in the same mech. Because that mech is what I truly love. And if hawken would have a mech looking the same, I would also probably play the fuzzy bunny out of hawken, just because of that. but this is truly personal reasons, that are not very obective. Yet PGI they still bring us new stuff and I do pilot that as well. there is also with the constant events, more stuff avaiable than I can regulary even go for. PGI knows very well how to keep people hooked up. Even if since ages the basic gaming queues are the same and the maps. But everytime new mechs appear, things change, because opponents behave different  and there is stuff to adopt to.

 

And so, I wonder what plans are there for hawken. Truly great would be the customiation of APB for the hawken mechs, An easy to montarise feature and hooking up people and then even create a unique attachement to the mechs they own. Would be very cool, if Tiggs could make a post about what the bigger plans for hawken they have.

 

I guess we will see a lot new mech parts appearing for hawken and skins. And when people go and see some really cool possible parts and designs abele to be build from this for their mechs in the garage, that can hook them up as well.

Edited by Lily_from_animove, 29 April 2015 - 07:46 AM.

[Silverfire]

The game had way more players than 8k. The game has much more players than 600 now. Steamcharts only shows concurrent players, meaning players in the game at that moment, which is 100% not indicative of the total playerbase. Not sure if you were aware. Hawken's playerbase is probably in the tens of thousands, if not more.

As for G1 and Reloaded, G1 will have no impact on the development aspect. Often times, the marketing side of things push for x feature or y item to sell to bring in the cash, regardless of what the devs want. They set a deadline, it must be met or else. What I assume is that G1 will not have a major impact on in game decisions. Outside marketing is something else, but I'm referring strictly to within the game, mechanics decisions. Yes, marketing always has a say for each decision, but any mistakes made with APB will hopefully be avoided with less G1 oversight.

Edited by Silverfire, 29 April 2015 - 07:36 AM.

[CraftyDus]

Don't 'cha just love school vacation week!

[Silverfire]

with the current state of the game, quite unlikely.
I want you guys to udnerstand what happens in new players, because that is what your game needs to survive and develop. And it does not care what amazing superepic experience you have in this game, because that will not change the experience for the newbies unles you organise some nice newbie events where you are going to let them play against each other, and probably actively teach them some tactics.
But people testing games, will not go there by their own because they are too new not even knowing where to find that And forums house only a minirity of a games playerbase, so do not expect them to go there, especially not when testing the game.

This is the issue: you state your opinions as if they represent the large majority of new players. It may not. You are one player yet you post like you speak for a majority, and I think that's why people are annoyed at your posts. You sound like you know the grand solution, the almighty single problem, and people don't appreciate it because again, you are one player, relatively new. How indicative at eyou of the majority of new players? I've met countless new players who genuinely enjoy the game and stick with it, and they're still coming too. I've seen more new names in game than ever before in months.

As for events, we've been creating them and hosting them, stepping up community advertisement on these forums, Steam forums, the Hawken reddit.

[CraftyDus]

Was OP bored of basic fundamentals of spelling and grammar as a new user and decided it shouldn't have taken more than an hour and a half to learn?

[AngryOgre]

Was OP bored of basic fundamentals of spelling and grammar as a new user and decided it shouldn't have taken more than an hour and a half to learn?

Come on, grow up.

[CraftyDus]

Come on, grow up.

 

it's Feedback for crying out loud

[?FTD? eXeon]

Tell me why the steam chart looks like this (and no development lazyness is not what makes players leave in the first month already).

List me 3 unique things Hawken has.

Read my post on page 2, yes it is because of the developers lazyness, hawken isn't finished and is missing major features like competitive matchmaking or some campaign that you find in any major FPS or even pvp oriented games.

 

If anyone were to list anything they thought was unique to hawken you could link it to some random game that has it, this is the case for any game. It is how all those things mesh together and make a unique experience that matters. You should really try and play more and rank up your mmr(add scrimbot to friends and type mmr) to face better opponents and understand what you're missing but, you honestly sound like you just want to complain that hawken isn't mechy enough for you so we all know you wont do much but wither away in the 1300 elohell. If you think you were so good, you should name one of your mechs 'publicmmr', any of them will do.

[Lily_from_animove]

This is the issue: you state your opinions as if they represent the large majority of new players. It may not. You are one player yet you post like you speak for a majority, and I think that's why people are annoyed at your posts. You sound like you know the grand solution, the almighty single problem, and people don't appreciate it because again, you are one player, relatively new. How indicative at eyou of the majority of new players? I've met countless new players who genuinely enjoy the game and stick with it, and they're still coming too. I've seen more new names in game than ever before in months.

As for events, we've been creating them and hosting them, stepping up community advertisement on these forums, Steam forums, the Hawken reddit.

 

because I voice what I think AND what the others that tested and dropped it think. and those were the same opinion just out of my friendlist. I doubt the big picture looks that much different. because then this sample of my friends should at leats included someone havign a different opinion. So I am suddenly representing around 10 players and not one. or maybe 9, haven't counted them.

If you met "countless new players who genuinely enjoy the game" where are those? looks like the steam statistics must be broken for the last weeks then. The statistics can quite easily count the few more. The reason for seeing new names was the appearance of hawken on the G1 site, but will they really stay? because when average player count hardly increases, yet it feels like countless names, this just means many try it and most isntanlty drop it (again as it was wit the steam release). So your perception does not reflect in the true numbers, whcih means its mostlikely very inaccurate. We will see how time changes it. But countless this increase? Not really.

 

Forums and reddit do not address to the casual player. With those events you mostly hook up the more steady playerbase. But not much the casuals, and even less newbies.

[AsianJoyKiller]

because I voice what I think AND what the others that tested and dropped it think. and those were the same opinion just out of my friendlist. I doubt the big picture looks that much different. because then this sample of my friends should at leats included someone havign a different opinion. So I am suddenly representing around 10 players and not one. or maybe 9, haven't counted them.

Basic psych and sociology 101 stuff.
People are attracted to likeminded people.

You cannot claim "big picture" knowledge based of a heavily biased sample. That's just bad science.

[comic_sans]

 

I might also question the mental acuity of someone with over 6,000 posts on the MWO forums.

 

I won't go quite that far, but I sure as hell will go far enough to say that knowing this explains a lot of your fairly solidified view of what a mech game should be.

 

Kind of an aside, but I've played a good deal of mainstreamish mech games like the armored core 2, 3, and 4 iterations, the ZOE games, some mechwarrior, Xenogears and I stuck with hawken for the same reasons I stuck with them: it's a nice game with art direction I just drool over.  A lot of what you said is very, very valid, and well worded despite your abandonment of grammar and caps, but I am not as compelled as I could be because I know that the real mushin moments in hawken come a good while after 10 hours of playtime and I hate to see you putting it down because it's not like MWO enough.  I haven't played MWO, but I am willing to recognize that it might just not be my cup of tea instead of a game actually doing something wrong.

Edited by comic_sans, 29 April 2015 - 09:28 AM.

[Flifang]

Jump into one of the high level matches so you can experience the game first hand. I'm sure people here would be glad to show you how the game plays at 2k mmr and up.

[Liederkranz]

@OP: You mentioned some things in your posts, for example the idea of giving the player a sample of what they could get (or something like that) and the customization, and you mentioned they aren't present in Hawken. Although it'd be really cool to have more ways to customize your mech (unique parts and not olny switchable parts from other mechs), the customization IS present, and it's one of the main things that can be bought only with a type of in-game currency only obtainable with real money. There are even test drive mechs in rotations so that you can try your next mech. Those are things I considered worth mentioning.

 

That's the way I felt when I began playing Hawken. I first got hooked by the stuff I could get if I kept playing (or if I actually paid for, with real money). Then I kept playing, and then I got hooked by the famous mechanics that everyone keeps mentioning here. Mechanics you don't get to see until you begin getting good at Hawken (good enough to stand up to 2100 MMR players and above). It's sort of a dance that you actually see improve little by little, timing attacks and boosts and dodges.

 

The playerbase got smaller and smaller not because lack of motivation given by the game, it got smaller because devs stopped updating, stopped talking, stopped showing up, until they completely vanished when Reloaded showed up.

Edited by Liederkranz, 29 April 2015 - 10:49 AM.

[raging_squirrel]

I get the feeling you wrote that reply in haste because you feel that your opinion has been attacked. Everybody has their opinion and they are bound to clash, but keep in mind you come to the HAWKEN forums to give feedback and now you are on the verge of insulting the entire HAWKEN playerbase. Look, bad things happen when you give your opinion as fact. It has happened before and it will happen again. Simply because you don't like the game doesn't mean it's a bad game.

 

 

I get that you're trying to bring a point across, and I appreciate that aspect of this thread. But straight up calling HAWKEN a bad game with no originality and denying other players their opinion, Dustin's quote, is something we will not accept.

 

 

Back up a bit and start again. State the facts, and after that state your opinion.

 

This is the sentence you should be focusing on: "The game presents itself in the most boring way I have seen the past years. And this is a rather simple issue to address and change." Tell us why and how to fix it and we'll be on our way. "This is because, in my honest opinion,..."

 

 

Cheers, 

Freeze

 

I'm sorry, but I feel the op didn't come here pointing fingers. He/She posted a honest view and opinion of the game which I found no negative intent here on the part of the OP.

Now please don't get me wrong..I <3 this game and don't have a problem what was said in the original post. I actually found it a very informative and honest critique without being disrespectful.

 

When someone airs an opinion and or feedback and is meet with people pointing a finger in their face with angry replies because some people can't get past a fanboy mentality, that finger is going to get knocked away. And for not one moment did I sense this person was denying others their opinions in response.

 

Many of the OP points and opinions that ( imo) were made without malice, were refuted with some insults and rather impolite replies by some people. I don't blame this person for maybe getting a bit testy. This community is famous for piling on when someone makes a statement that doesn't agree with (a certain group, not all)  the herd mentality.

 

I feel you were way off base to insinuate that this person came to give feedback but was on the verge of insulting the entire Hawken community.

Please speak for yourself here as I feel I'm part of that community and didn't feel as if I was being insulted at all.

 

I found many of the op remarks and opinions to be a fresh and interesting viewpoint from a new player perspective  (with what appears to be extensive other gaming experience) on the subject of Hawken.

 

If people want to disagree with the OP input, thats fine, but when people do what they are accusing the topic creator of doing, that being insulting and a bit rude, that's a little bit of the pot calling the kettle black.

 

I feel some need to go back and re-read the original post as I felt there was no meanness, insulting nature or false accusations posted here. Just a honest opinion with some honest suggestions about the game which I hope the devs will read and take into account from someone with an outside perspective looking in.  

Edited by raging_squirrel, 29 April 2015 - 01:20 PM.

[Silverfire]

 

Tell me why the steam chart looks like this (and no development lazyness is not what makes players leave in the first month already).

List me 3 unique things Hawken has.

 

I might attest it to a steep learning curve, the P2W impressions in the game (even though there is none), iffy balancing at the time, just generally being an arena shooter type game (they are not very popular these days, other more "generic" type shooters are more popular like CoD, Battlefield, GTA series, and just the difficulty of establishing a new IP in an already competitive FPS market), and most of all, not being "the mech game" everyone was expecting. Hawken isn't like traditional games with mechs.  You said so yourself, it's not what you expected.  That in and of itself affects the player retention.  Is Hawken the game people expect it to be? For some, yes, others, no.  that will cause players to stay or leave. For you, Hawken was not what you expected.

 

 

because I voice what I think AND what the others that tested and dropped it think. and those were the same opinion just out of my friendlist. I doubt the big picture looks that much different. because then this sample of my friends should at leats included someone havign a different opinion. So I am suddenly representing around 10 players and not one. or maybe 9, haven't counted them.

If you met "countless new players who genuinely enjoy the game" where are those? looks like the steam statistics must be broken for the last weeks then. The statistics can quite easily count the few more. The reason for seeing new names was the appearance of hawken on the G1 site, but will they really stay? because when average player count hardly increases, yet it feels like countless names, this just means many try it and most isntanlty drop it (again as it was wit the steam release). So your perception does not reflect in the true numbers, whcih means its mostlikely very inaccurate. We will see how time changes it. But countless this increase? Not really.

 

Forums and reddit do not address to the casual player. With those events you mostly hook up the more steady playerbase. But not much the casuals, and even less newbies.

 

You cannot say that the big picture looks that much different to your situation because 9-10 people is still a ridiculously small sample size compared to the tens of thousands that log onto Hawken every day. Your perception is just as inaccurate, given that your friends most likely expected the same out of Hawken as you did.

 

And the players that I meet? Well, I generally still see them around, some leave, some stay. That's normal, Hawken isn't for everyone. And taking my word "countless" literally is a dangerous thing to do. I said it to convey the fact that I literally can't count them because there's a bunch of them.  Does that mean that 2 million players are joining Hawken? No.  Could it mean that a few thousand players are joining Hawken every few weeks and sticking around? It could, because both numbers (2 million and 2 thousand) are both numbers I don't bother counting, hence "countless."  Don't take it out of context, that's just ineffective debating.

 

And have you seen the Steam charts? We've seen increases in the general population across the board, the EU side of Hawken is the largest it has been in a year. The numbers are growing (in terms of total playerbase).  And it's not sharp peaks and sharp declines.  It's steady, slow growth over the past month or two.  A lot of old players are coming back too, that counts for a good increase in the population, as well as small scale advertising of the game by the community and by Reloaded themselves.  Double EXP weekends, promo codes, the official Hawken Facebook page posting about new Hawken streamers, renewed effort by the community to host community events, the resuming of the Hawken competitive TPG League.  We try to reach as many people as possible.  Will we reach everyone? Hell no, but we will certainly try to reach as many people as possible, which is why we post on the Reddit, the Steam forums, these forums, and have contact with devs (capnjosh and Tiggs) to get the word out for the game.  If we can get the new players involved, the casual players involved, that's great too. we can't get everyone, but we can try to get as many as we can.  Can't blame us for trying, eh? 

 

There's literally nothing you're doing wrong when it comes to playing this game.  If it's not your style, so be it, I'm not going to try to make you change your style of preference when it comes to mech type games.  You wanted it to be more MWO esque and it's not. Oh well.  However, claiming all this knowledge based on a small sample size and applying it to the entirety of the new playerbase just isn't right.  You may have had the same experience as 9 of your friends but you sure as hell did not have the same experience as 10k people.  Just because the game didn't hook you doesn't mean it's not hooking the rest of the new playerbase.  I'm still meeting new players that are hooked on Hawken's gameplay immediately.

 

Yes, I agree with you, the new player experience needs a LOT of work.  However, just because it might not work the best doesn't mean the game is doomed. The initial contention when it came to your OP is just misinformation, and it was corrected both rudely and politely, but corrected nonetheless.  Our opinions are based on a greater experience than yours so we've seen the ups and downs of Hawken.  Do you have interesting ideas? Yes, but they sure as hell aren't the be-all-end-all for this game because the veterans have seen it all for this game and stuck through it.  We know stuff.  So yes, the new player experience needs work. The game needs work. We're all well aware of the fact that it needs work, it's needed work since Steam release.  

 

Anyway, keep it coming. I'm liking this.

Edited by Silverfire, 29 April 2015 - 01:44 PM.

[Nov8tr]

I cannot believe you guys fell for this. The OP is nothing but a time consuming:

 

[CraftyDus]

I want you guys to udnerstand what happens in new players

 

I want you to udnerstand there isn't a single player here that was not at one time a new player.

 

You are not the only.

You are not the first.

 

You are not in any way exceptional in any way that would lend your cursory perusal of an-hour-and-change any more gravitas than the hundreds of players you are speaking to.

 

The vast majority of which came to a much deeper understanding of the subject than you seem to ultimately be willing to, by your simple refusal to play any more than you have. You've barely played.

 

I take issue there, if you think we should suffer an inordinate amount of pontificating based on your 7,800 seconds of playtime.

 

Your walls of opinionated text have outstretched way beyond your miniscule time actually playing.

Many of your assertions are disproportionate to what little actual examination into playing you have made.

I think I can understand this in light of the fact that you AVERAGE 20+ posts/day on MWO forums!

 

We have all been new players.

If you think we don't understand what that means, you are sorely mistaken.

[IareDave]

I don't see the problem with that, if CS did guns the way you like guns, and you jumped into CoD and didn't like the way they did guns which lead to you dropping CoD, that's good feed back. Now they can slap a "A totally diffrent shooting sim experiance" on the box and call it good if they so please. The OP obviously knows mech games to be a certain way, and that the game clashes with those expectations is an important part of the feedback. Just like in your CS guns vs CoD gun analogy. You knew CS guns to be a certain way, playing CoD totally screwed with that expectation. If that was part of what you didn't like CoD for, they need to know that, because if their exit surveys show a trend of that complaint, then they need to aduit the game's mechanics and figure out if they want to stick closer to what CS player's comfort is or if they don't. Reloaded has been lucky enough here to have someone give feedback as they have w/o a exit survey. But whatever.

I'm just trying to understand why you view that sort of thing the way you do. Is it because you don't want to see this game change at all/very little/some what/ a lot/ completly?

And that "stating the obvious comment", come on, really now?

No, that's terrible feedback. I brought up the example to demonstrate how ridiculous it is, not as support. You DON'T compare two games with the fact that you like the style of one better and feel it's more accurate (aka the recoil example). They are completely different games, and you don't downgrade one because it's not what you think a shooter to be. It's one thing to voice your opinion and another to come here and post on the forums as if what you speak is fact. Different slices for different people, or whatever the analogy is. Developers think about their game 24/7, they dream about it, and hopefully they love it. It puts food on their table, so they're going to go after what their dream of the game is. They aren't going to listen to someone who says 'Oh, yeah, this isn't how mech games are supposed to be'. Sure, listen to new players, figure out what keeps them hooked. And they have, hence the player peak doubling and an increase of about 50% to the average population within the past few months. They are doing something right. 

 

This thread is amazing. Yeah! Keep attacking the OP, that'll generate positive buzz for sure.

#sarcasm

The adults are talking, go back to your legos. 

Edited by IareDave, 29 April 2015 - 02:44 PM.

[AngryOgre]

You think it's terrible feedback, I don't think it's terrible feedback. Different strokes for different folks.

The adults are talking, go back to your legos.

Said the man who comments on a video game forum

[BaronSaturday]

So, let me explain why this is a mech game first and an arena shooter second, because people tent o miss that.  MWO is fantasy.  Those mechs are far to massive, far too slow for their size, and far too lumbering to viable war machines.  There is no arguing that.  Those mechs, even the heavy artillery and laser platforms just wouldn't hold up to a platoon of tanks aiming at their legs.  They just aren't viable or realistic in the sense of what a mech would have to be to make sense on an actual battle field.

But the mechs in Hawken?  The A-classes are only 2.5 times taller than a human.  Just in case you missed the little dude there for size reference.  So even the heaviest mech which is only 3.25 times taller than the guy, which we can assume is an average 5'8" tall.  This means they are going to be faster and more agile than any mech in a mech "sim".  and they would have to be to be viable.  To actually happen.  So this game holds a better representation of what mech warfare would actually be.  A group of these mechs would destroy a tank unit and only have minimal losses.  The average tank has 3 people in it, not to mention infantry.  These mechs would run circles around any conventional unit of war.

As for the Arena aspect?  Yes.  It has some heavy arcade aspects including infinite ammo, the ability to repair on the fly, and a single hit box.  In no way is the ability to float or dodge to the side an aspect of the Arena shooter.  Mechs would literally have to be this way to be effective.  There is no other way.  And their movement would need to be heavily augmented by computers so the single pilot could be as effective.

In conclusion, yes this is a mech game.  Arguing otherwise shows a clear misunderstanding of what war is.  Yes this is an Arena shooter, but only barely.  It could easily be converted into a proper mech sim by taking out unlimited fuel, ammo, and the ability to heal on the fly.  Though the last point is arguable.

[Leonhardt]

sry mom told me not to feed trolls, So we see us later when maturity and objectivity may have awoken in you.

 

Just thought I'd point out that your entire thread/OP is from your point of view as a new player and is therefore not objective since it is your opinion and we all know that opinions are not facts which would make the vast majority of your post not "objective". Which to me seems a bit silly since this entire thread is essentially a debate over opinions about the game (most of the forums are like this really) and you are essentially saying someone has to be objective for you to reason with them when you have admitted in your OP by way of the entire post to being anything, but objective.

 

 

 

All that aside I don't see why everyone is bickering and arguing its just one persons opinion. lol

Edited by Leonhardt, 29 April 2015 - 03:28 PM.

[comic_sans]

 

 

The adults are talking, go back to your legos. 

 

http://www.brickshel...i?include=Mecha

 

There goes at least an hour of someone's time.  You're welcome.

[?FTD? eXeon]

 your 7,800 seconds of playtime.

That seems so short of a time to judge a game especially on 'how easy' it is lol

If you met "countless new players who genuinely enjoy the game" where are those? looks like the steam statistics must be broken for the last weeks then. 

http://steamcharts.com/app/271290Are we looking at the same charts here?

[LU0P10]

Some of you say "it's fine and has a steady player base". Well it's steady, true, but fine? With hat low amount? That is not fine, No matter how much I would love a game, but I would never ever tell me "my game is fine" with this amount of player base.

Must say that I agree with that^

 

And this has been bugging me a fuzzy bunnyng lot and long time too. 

 

 

But then "they" use the niche game argument... so you shouldn't even expect larger crowd for this game - how silly of us.

Edited by LU0P10, 29 April 2015 - 07:46 PM.

[Hellzilla]

Bummer. I was hoping this "Feedbach" would be about Sebastian Bach playing some Hawken. We are the youth gone wild.

[Hyginos]

Bummer. I was hoping this "Feedbach" would be about Sebastian Bach playing some Hawken. We are the youth gone wild.

 

Wrong Sebastian Bach

[KilleR_OrigiNs]

You may have your game. Your toxin is too much for me.

I will find another.

Edited by KilleR_OrigiNs, 30 April 2015 - 09:36 PM.

[Broham78]

5 minutes and Hawken search on the MWO forums proves Lily had her mind made up long before she even clicked the download button, and deliberately came here to post walls of pretentious text and belittle our game and community. I'm not sorry for giving her my 2 cents.

I picked up my love of mechs as a Battletech Firestorm pilot actually shelling out money for every match back in the 90's. I should have some nostalgic loyalty towards MWO. I even bought my first gaming laptop specifically to play it. The fact is I hated it and was profoundly disappointed. I waited so many years for a comparable experience to Firestorm and Hawken is what pulled it off, even without having an actual cockpit to sit in. That's no small feat.

But... you won't see me on MWO forums stirring up trouble telling them their mechs are ugly,or that their game sucks and isn't real mech game and should be like Hawken because that's what I want and my opinion is supreme.

[KilleR_OrigiNs]

Redacted. 

Edited by KilleR_OrigiNs, 30 April 2015 - 09:34 PM.