164 replies to this topic

[Badtings]

We aren't here to sell the game. The majority of OPs post is complaining about how he or she thinks a mech game should be which is hardly any room for productive conversation.

Amen. Coming to this forum and complaining is counter productive. I recommend the OP go and post something about what s/he likes on some other forum. That would be constructive. 

[IareDave]

The game is still in beta and is subject to change.  

I'm very aware of the game state thank you. 

 

then that shows there might be a problem with marketing or how the game plays in it's current state, whichever Reloaded feels is more true. "The game is what it is and you either like it or you don't" isn't really a good stance when the game is in beta and subject to change.

Yes, or it shows there might be a problem in caring about the opinion of someone who has days worth of experience, claims the game to be a casual shooter, and above all has their own perception of what a mech game should be and therefore is going to nitpick every little detail because it's not OPs style for a mech game. My point still stands. 

[KilleR_OrigiNs]

Redacted. 

Edited by KilleR_OrigiNs, 30 April 2015 - 09:34 PM.

[ReEvolve]

Amen. Coming to this forum and complaining is counter productive. I recommend the OP go and post something about what s/he likes on some other forum. That would be constructive. 

 

That's not just complaining it's feedback and the OP took a lot of effort trying to give constructive feedback and I think with most parts he/she succeeded. You know, constructive feedback is a good thing. For example the OP pointed out that the game is being promoted in a wrong way and it might actually get more players if that gets changed. Telling someone to stop posting because you don't agree with the feedback is just rude and utterly stupid. That will give new players the impression that this community consists of rabid fanboys/fangirls who can't take any criticism of their "favorite game". Please reconsider if you really want to give off that impression. You don't have to approve of everyone's opinion but actually participating in a discussion is way better than saying "your opinion differs from mine so go away".

Edited by ReEvolve, 28 April 2015 - 10:34 AM.

[Superkamikazee]

Yes, because ignoring what others dislike and promoting what only is approved sounds like a great set of laws.

 

There's a group of players on here who at times feel their opinion is really the only one that matters regarding the game, or an opinion that agrees with their views. Now that's not to say they're not nice people, but at times the superiority complexes are a bit much. I'm slowly learning to just say my piece and move on. 

[crockrocket]

Good to have some new player perspective. It's important to hear this stuff sometimes.

[CraftyDus]

 

 the impression that this community consists of rabid fanboys/fangirls who can't take any criticism of their "favorite game". 

 

rabid fanboy checking in

stop criticizing my "favorite game" (wtf are the quotes there for?)

I can't take it.

 

 

 

After having tested the Game a few hours....So I played 3 or 5 matches with somewhat above average results.

 

And WOW, I wrecked like hell. and went MVP nearly allt he freaking time, except maybe one or two matche sof maybe 10 or 12 I did. And of course hackusation started. Even on maps I have not seen before. Some matches even with nearly twice as much points as the second best player.

 

By gaming standards, I am a very good when it comes to tactics and strategies. Aiming however is maybe above average, especially when it comes to quick and accurate aiming. me as a newbie in the game without map knowledge should not be able to wreck like this. I can not say much about mech balance Ad the time I spend in the air is so massive it maks other mechs hard to hit you. 

 

Being a casual shooter is not bad at all, not every shooter needs to be supercompetitive all the time. Hawkens simple gameplay allows people to get into the game only after a handfull of matches. No giant and steep learning cliff in front of you constantly throwing boulders at you.

 

 

But this game is also not very special or exciting at all or really motivating for the long run. 

 

You've played this game less than 80 minutes, achieving level 13.

You "wrecked" in the lobbies where players don't turn to look at you when you light them up, let alone shoot back.

 

Your perspective about how "simple" the game feels is tainted by ranked matchmaking which coddles new players and keeps them from players who move and shoot back.

 

That comment about flying, thanks for that. I've heard it before.

It's funny that at the start that spacebar is full of win.

Later on it makes you the slowest and most visible target in the server.

 

You say "in the long run" this game is not exciting or motivating. You have barely played. That's not something you should be asserting.

 

 

With casual, I meant more like: "How hard is it to get into the game and used to all its features" Which is in Hawken quite simple. No special and complicated own mechanics seem to exist. Or at least nothing thats hard to understand. You don't need like 100+ hours until you understand and use the core features. 

 

The problem with not knowing something is that you don't know.. that you don't know... and can't know... until you learn that you didn't know.

 

You need like 100+ until you understand and use the core features.

 

Please believe me.

You haven't had the oppportunity to even see an "L" dodge.

The game has more complexity in it than a cursory examination over a short couple of sessions reveal.

 

So a simple lore point to bring up that no one seems to have brought here. The OP is noting the fact that traditional physics do not seem to apply to the axes (mechs) and while his observation is valid, his conclusion is, from the point of lore, incorrect. Unfortunately, the previous developers did not see fit to round out the Hawken experience with any real form of lore inside the game. Instead it must be found primarily in the graphic novel(s) they produced.

Now, while things like the 180 and the dodge would very easily crush a human inside without appropriate momentum damping devices (springs n fuzzy bunny), the mechs themselves are infused with fictional materials known as cavorite and nanocavorite. cavorite is actually one of the major reasons Sentium (one of Hawken's multi planetary corporations, or MPCs) came to Illal (the planet that the game takes place on) in the first place.

Cavorite is a substance that has anti-mass effects, and as such, factors like gravity and inertia are relaxed, allowing for a much faster array of movements when infused with a mech. Prior to the discovery of cavorite, mechs were too heavy to hover, let alone fly as they do now.

 

That's some deep nerding you're doing there. Bravo.

 

I stopped reading after you claimed Hawken to be a casual shooter. The skill gap from low to high tier is as clear as night & day, more so than most FPSs I have played(due to high ttk).

 

Small pond.

The difference between DMG and silver in CS:GO is bigger than all of Hawken.

The difference between Invite and Intermediate in comp DoD is bigger than all of Hawken.

 

I hold the opinion that the high ttk and the turn cap and all that,  help middlin' s crubs be better able to hang with those with better proven reaction times and comp fps performance in other games.

 

I will maintain that in Hawken, after players get a feel for it, minimizes to some degree differences in players' skills.

 

relevant gif:

 

 

[(P:B)Augmentia]

Good lord did someone actually complain about not enough marketing? Meteor spend a crapton of money on advertising and a movie trailer and a bunch of junk, but it was at the wrong time! We have buckets upon buckets of marketing, but they jumped the gun on it! If they had more content we would be a huge game right now!

Edited by Augmentia, 28 April 2015 - 11:28 AM.

[IareDave]

Small pond.
The difference between DMG and silver in CS:GO is bigger than all of Hawken.
The difference between Invite and Intermediate in comp DoD is bigger than all of Hawken.

I hold the opinion that the high ttk and the turn cap and all that, help middlin' scrubs be better able to hang with those with better proven reaction times and comp fps performance in other games.

I will maintain that in Hawken, after players get a feel for it, minimizes to some degree differences in players' skills.

relevant gif:

I've played comp. shooters for years and CS 1.6 which is significantly more skill based than the casually waterred down CS;GO. With a low ttk it is possible for a lesser skilled player to get a lucky headshot against a player leagues above his skill. There's no such concept in Hawken. Oh you got a lucky TOW? Cool I still have three quarters of my HP left.

Edited by IareDave, 28 April 2015 - 11:32 AM.

[Leonhardt]

Placing something or someone into a category might make it easier to identify, but it does not define nor change what they are. We all have names that identify us and those names have meanings, but that meaning is not always relevant to who we are.

 

Whats my point? Categories are for easier identification not for defining what something is. You don't place something into a category in order to define it, you define it and then place it into a category. So all of this bickering and arguing about what is and is not a "mech game" is really rather pointless because no matter what you say about the category Hawken is still just Hawken.

 

Edited by Leonhardt, 28 April 2015 - 11:43 AM.

[CraftyDus]

I've played comp. shooters for years and CS 1.6 which is significantly more skill based than the casually waterred down CS;GO. With a low ttk it is possible for a lesser skilled player to get a lucky headshot against a player leagues above his skill. There's no such concept in Hawken. Oh you got a lucky TOW? Cool I still have three quarters of my HP left.

 

You played cs, a comp shooter; or comp cs 1.6?

I played comp dod 1.3, cs 1.6's kissing cousin. For years. I know it's hard. 

I cited cs:go because of the ranked matchmaking comparison to hawken.

What's your rank in watered down cs:go.

I just made gn4 yesterday from silver 3 a month ago and lemme tell ya, it's a fuzzy bunny.

Ranked is best rounds of 30. Lucky headshots won't earn you best of 30.

That's a test that weeds out lucky headshots.

Ranked out of hundreds of thousands of active ranked players at any moment.

The mountains of the leet are higher, the valleys of bads are lower.

Our pond is a much smaller pool of talent.

 

I'm also saying consequences are steeper compared to when you can take damage all damn day and not die. 

 

Listen, I'm not trying to diminish what it takes to be a good hawken player while others are also good hawken players.

I'm saying many bads live through stupid damage when lit-the-hell up in hawken.

 

It's fun. It's really fun.

But that and the turn cap certainly widens the threshhold for average players to not be half as terrible as they would be at true twitchers.

[IareDave]

Comp. CS 1.6 but I was very young and only participated in minor community leagues. My point was that a lesser skilled player could kill a player significantly better than them through luck, I'm not claiming that luck alone will rise you up the ranks. In terms of Hawken, if I were to duel a lesser skilled player they wouldn't get a single kill on me even with lucky shots due to the high ttk. In a team match the skill differential is less noticeable because this is a very team oriented game and coordination goes a long way, but duels are a different story.

Edited by IareDave, 28 April 2015 - 12:11 PM.

[KilleR_OrigiNs]

Redacted.

Edited by KilleR_OrigiNs, 30 April 2015 - 09:34 PM.

[CraftyDus]

Comp. CS 1.6 but I was very young and only participated in minor community leagues. My point was that a lesser skilled player could kill a player significantly better than them through luck, I'm not claiming that luck alone will rise you up the ranks. In terms of Hawken, if I were to duel a lesser skilled player they wouldn't get a single kill on me even with lucky shots. In a team match the skill differential is less noticeable because this is a very team oriented game and coordination goes a long way, but duels are a different story.

 

I agree with you there.

 

Getting headshotted by a really bad player while they talk smack. Priceless.

It doesn't happen in Hawken. 

 

Conversely hosing down a terrorist on "A" site with a negev at point blank while they simply do not die;

It doesn't happen in CS.

 

 

I've noticed after a long Hawken session I have to practice deathmatch for a while in cs to retrain my mind before cueing ranked.

Because Hawken conditions me to accepting damage.

Damage is completely unacceptable in comp cs.

 

But if I play Hawken after a long cs session, immediately punching above level.

 

I'd wager the difference between 1600-2000 mmr would be the equivilent of silver2-silverelite.

Real to the players in it. But not a huge difference really.

 

Space, a money LAN quakewars player who played Hawken TPG season 1 also often made this observation about the difference in the skill disparity among Hawken players and among players of true twitch shooters at the competetive and casual level.

 

Top players in CS:GO are money LAN pros who make 6 figure bank a year doing 8 hour days of cs, and attending several majors a year.

Our best hawken players are not there yet.

 

So my remarks are to the skill disparity there being vastly larger in their ranked matchmaking (always team cue).

 

Duels for sure are a much different story. Totally agree.

 

As for DoD 1.3.

I played with former money LAN pros who spent the twilight years occupying the invite tier of TPG

They were also gods compared to shtty open kids (who were all pretty good by our standards here).

What colored the skill disparity in that particular community was something else Hawken hasn't had the oppportunity to taste yet.

A decade of organized comp.

Time will make a skill disparity hairier than I can rightly communicate with words.

 

*edit

 

officially derailed /thread

Edited by Dustin, 28 April 2015 - 12:39 PM.

[WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW]

I for one value OP's first impressions since that's where new players will be coming from: their first impressions. lol. There's more than enough constructive criticism, but perhaps not the right community to be able to integrate it into their elitism. Oh well.

 

Thanks for your comments OP. They are great. Keep up the good work.

 

EDIT: One decent solution I remember Heroes of Newerth implementing, a MOBA with an MMR system, is a question when first queueing for a ranked game. It would ask something along the lines of "How experienced are you with this genre?" and provide options like "I am new to video games," or "I am new to MOBAs", or "I like to play MOBAs," or "I play MOBAs competitively." Different answers would place the player in different MMR brackets from which they can start ranking under normal rules (like weighted ratings for first few games) to help find the proper MMR for the player faster. This is a good option.

Edited by WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW, 28 April 2015 - 12:43 PM.

[AngryOgre]

I'm very aware of the game state thank you. 
 

Yes, or it shows there might be a problem in caring about the opinion of someone who has days worth of experience, claims the game to be a casual shooter, and above all has their own perception of what a mech game should be and therefore is going to nitpick every little detail because it's not OPs style for a mech game. My point still stands.

What you just described is feedback. Sounds like you don't like their feedback.

In this humble Ogre's opinion, the feedback is solid and useful. Thank you OP for writting it all out!

[IareDave]

What you just described is feedback. Sounds like you don't like their feedback.

In this humble Ogre's opinion, the feedback is solid and useful. Thank you OP for writting it all out!

You have an innate ability to state the obvious. Also, It's not that I don't like their feedback, its that their feedback is catered to the desires of how a mech game should be. It's the same as me saying I wish Call of Duty had the same recoil mechanics as Counter Strike because I FEEL that guns should behave in that specific fashion. 

I for one value OP's first impressions since that's where new players will be coming from: their first impressions. lol. There's more than enough constructive criticism, but perhaps not the right community to be able to integrate it into their elitism. Oh well.

 

Thanks for your comments OP. They are great. Keep up the good work.

 

 

Yes, my differing opinion from yours is elitism. Based on your logic, everything you say from this point on is appropriate to label as scrubism. 

[WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW]

I can take your posts and compare them with AJK's. They are regularly very different and both of your posting styles are easy to differentiate. I have some minor disagreements with the OP and so have other posters but none of us have described our disagreements in such a destructive manner as outright ignoring large blocks of a relatively rare form of post that comes from an uncommonly represented segment of the player population, that happens to be both relatively well-put-together and coming from a vital demographic. Thanks at least for going back to read the OP though.

[AsianJoyKiller]

I went into my Google docs to see if I still had my copy/paste rants and had one on the topic of "What is a mech game?" I had forgotten that someone had drawn a crude phallus in there, with balls of facts and sources, a shaft of my argument, and throbbing veins of truth. It is also depicted as splashing sadness and regret on "your face".

[Badtings]

That's not just complaining it's feedback and the OP took a lot of effort trying to give constructive feedback and I think with most parts he/she succeeded. You know, constructive feedback is a good thing. For example the OP pointed out that the game is being promoted in a wrong way and it might actually get more players if that gets changed. Telling someone to stop posting because you don't agree with the feedback is just rude and utterly stupid. That will give new players the impression that this community consists of rabid fanboys/fangirls who can't take any criticism of their "favorite game". Please reconsider if you really want to give off that impression. You don't have to approve of everyone's opinion but actually participating in a discussion is way better than saying "your opinion differs from mine so go away".

"You know, constructive feedback is a good thing. For example the OP pointed out that the game is being promoted in a wrong way and it might actually get more players if that gets changed."  BS

 

This again proves the OP's ignorance not only of the game but of the marketing of Hawken .. There's nearly ZERO marketing / advertising. That's why the population is what it is. I work in marketing for a living. No matter how the game is marketing, there will always be people like the OP. The game is not for everyone.

[AngryOgre]

You have an innate ability to state the obvious. Also, It's not that I don't like their feedback, its that their feedback is catered to the desires of how a mech game should be. It's the same as me saying I wish Call of Duty had the same recoil mechanics as Counter Strike because I FEEL that guns should behave in that specific fashion. 

I don't see the problem with that, if CS did guns the way you like guns, and you jumped into CoD and didn't like the way they did guns which lead to you dropping CoD, that's good feed back. Now they can slap a "A totally diffrent shooting sim experiance" on the box and call it good if they so please. The OP obviously knows mech games to be a certain way, and that the game clashes with those expectations is an important part of the feedback. Just like in your CS guns vs CoD gun analogy. You knew CS guns to be a certain way, playing CoD totally screwed with that expectation. If that was part of what you didn't like CoD for, they need to know that, because if their exit surveys show a trend of that complaint, then they need to aduit the game's mechanics and figure out if they want to stick closer to what CS player's comfort is or if they don't. Reloaded has been lucky enough here to have someone give feedback as they have w/o a exit survey. But whatever.

I'm just trying to understand why you view that sort of thing the way you do. Is it because you don't want to see this game change at all/very little/some what/ a lot/ completly?

And that "stating the obvious comment", come on, really now?

[CraftyDus]

I went into my Google docs to see if I still had my copy/paste rants and had one on the topic of "What is a mech game?" I had forgotten that someone had drawn a crude phallus in there, with balls of facts and sources, a shaft of my argument, and throbbing veins of truth. It is also depicted as splashing sadness and regret on "your face".

 

gold

 

*edit

 

my

sides

Edited by Dustin, 28 April 2015 - 01:56 PM.

[AngryOgre]

"You know, constructive feedback is a good thing. For example the OP pointed out that the game is being promoted in a wrong way and it might actually get more players if that gets changed."  BS[/size]
 
This again proves the OP's ignorance not only of the game but of the marketing of Hawken .. There's nearly ZERO marketing / advertising. That's why the population is what it is. I work in marketing for a living. No matter how the game is marketing, there will always be people like the OP. The game is not for everyone.[/size]

Ignorance of the game? They just started playing it and had opinions and feedback. Why is that such a bad thing? How could it be hurtful to the game in any way? Is this how people in marketing approach all feedback?

[ropefish]

I went into my Google docs to see if I still had my copy/paste rants and had one on the topic of "What is a mech game?" I had forgotten that someone had drawn a crude phallus in there, with balls of facts and sources, a shaft of my argument, and throbbing veins of truth. It is also depicted as splashing sadness and regret on "your face".

made my day

[Lily_from_animove]

I made the feedback at this point for a reason.

Many of my steam friends played it, like 3 days, meaning evenings (less than 10 hours in total). Great that some of you suggest me to play 100+ hours, to get deeper into the game. But the regular player testing it will not do that. If thre is nothing that grabs him after those 3 days, he will not feel motivated to even start it againand when he needs his SSD cleaned well, that okish games are the first that will go.

Asking them they said "its decent", yet I can not see them playing it anymore, most even have it deinstalled already, as I asked them to play with me. So after G1 aqquired the game, there was aincome of new palyers testing it. But in my friendlist, I can't see them playing it anymore.

 

Also great for you, IareDave, that you like the game as it is. But liking your game is not paying devs (until you throw thousends of dollars at it as a single person regulary) and its also not running servers. This game is not a b2p title like CS:GO, or COD. This game will have to sustain a steady amount of income to keep alive, because thats the way it is designed. And both, CS:Go and COD are popular enough to not care about a few players "liking" it differently playing somethign else because of that. Hawken does nto have the playerbase luxury to be in that position.  And when you tell everyone "go along its not for everyone" you soon can say: "go along its for no one".  Because its gone. It already went into this trouble once. G1 saved it because they think it has potential, yet G1's history proofes, that they did this quite already with a few games, and many of them are already gone as well. The game as it was, was not able to survive well obviously. And when you stick with your rather stubborn view of how great it is? The mass of players that decided not to play it much further past initial testing already proofes it may be not as great as you think it is. Because even if it is the greatest game on earth, if not enough want to play it, it will die. Because sometimes people do not like that great stuff the way it is. And a good portion of Hawkens greatness is just not delivered to hook the people up in a testing gamers usual timeframe of testing.

 

Relaoded production + G1 are companies and as such they need to be profitable. RP and g1 have the issue, that APB is their major game of income. They tried in the past, already to extend this APB universe by making APB vendetta. And the kickstarter horribly failed. Because that was already another arena shooter coming. And so it was dropped. Well they said they may still do something on it, but I dout something there will ever come.

So they are very likely still looking for other games to have a wider product range, since APB will not stay forever. Yet APB has its major strength by its customisation. Past that is just a rather medicore TPS with a tons of issues. hawken is yet, no matter how great you think it is, just not as special as you think. I played a tons of different games in my Life and Hakwen is lacking that certain something. And just choosing to make an arena shooter in a niche genre is not going to be that certain something. And so, if the game wants to survive, it will need new players which will also need changes you may not like, or get dropped.

 

I was there when WAR went down, It was so much better than WoW but a ton of people and their lazyness as it is the casuals gamers nature, didn't wanted to leave the game with the max rank character they already had. Surely, WAR could have went the WoW way, which would have ruined what the game was intended to be. But yet it died, no matter how great it was. And you as a gamer should be objectively about what the status of your game is and the future of your game will or can be. And from the status quo, you have a decent game, that keeps not many people interested past the testing. And this is not an opinion at all, tahst an observation. I just tried to show you by my opinion why the interest in the game is so low, even for beign decent. 

100+ hours? cool advice, lemme just chekc how many f2p games there are, and by this logic, lemme all "test them decently" for 100+ hours. by this logic I may make a decision which games to play in like a few years. Given they still exist then.

 

Hook people up in <10 hours, or you will have troubles with your game. independend of the genre or anything else. Now have this ontop in a niche game? Very problematic Epecially since nto everyone will even spend money in a f2p game.

 

dreams and hopes do not feed devs and pay stakeholders.

because you know what dave? The game is what it is, it either pays it's bills or not. Anything past that si not relevant from a companies point of view, No matter if we gamer may like this or not.

 

I can take your posts and compare them with AJK's. They are regularly very different and both of your posting styles are easy to differentiate. I have some minor disagreements with the OP and so have other posters but none of us have described our disagreements in such a destructive manner as outright ignoring large blocks of a relatively rare form of post that comes from an uncommonly represented segment of the player population, that happens to be both relatively well-put-together and coming from a vital demographic. Thanks at least for going back to read the OP though.

 

"You know, constructive feedback is a good thing. For example the OP pointed out that the game is being promoted in a wrong way and it might actually get more players if that gets changed."  BS

 

This again proves the OP's ignorance not only of the game but of the marketing of Hawken .. There's nearly ZERO marketing / advertising. That's why the population is what it is. I work in marketing for a living. No matter how the game is marketing, there will always be people like the OP. The game is not for everyone.

 

zero marketing or not, one wrote the previous company even did a lot. sounds a bit contrary doesn't it?

 

I saw the trailer of hawken. It advertises not the fast pace it actually is, nor does the cinematic intro. And here lies the entire issue. One sees the trailer, now he gets either interetsed or not. So people playing mech games of slower pace will get interested, since this is what the trailer indicates. They then check either directly the game or gameplay vids. Now they find not what the trailer advertises. So from those only a few that still like the game even if its not what they came for will stay. But others which due to the trailer already went way may had interest in what the game truly is, but they already do not bother further.

 

And for someone that works in marketing for a living you should be able to see why its a massive issue to attract a niche audience and then not even deliver what they expect. Becasue those of them who stay are a minority of a niche. Now that is marketing of great success? Especially with the few mech games existing that niche is a bit oversaturated.

 

And thats why I made this entire post, to tell you what I as a gamer that had played a ton of games in his life thinks about this, because the devs can decide to change it and then I may get also a game thats interesting for me. Which it currently hardly is. And those who try to tell everyone it's fine as it is, think about why the game was in trouble. This is often not the small tiny things a company may have changed with time. because new palyers do not even recognise them. they just judge the core of what a game is because they do not go past 100+ pro supercompetitive tactics and all the stuff. For Hawken some flaws, even if they are my opinion at this point, are just what many people out there think. People I spoke with about, and that share the same experience. And you have to somehwat cater their needs if you want the game to be a profitable success keeping it alive.

 

G1 and RP, are actually quite willing to implement some stuff players want, at least in APB they did a lot of this. Surely you still have the haters, and trolls complaining. And the fanboys praising (and buying) anything made no matter how rubbish it is.

But at the end of the entire line you need to be honest to yourself outside your selfcatering needs, what is important for the game to stay. And this from the point of view, is what your playerbase wants, not what your elite and top gamers want. Because they do not keep the game running, they are too few for this. and you probably will have to sacrifice the one or the other personal wish for the sake of the games existence, or it dies and you keep the memories of the game. But hoping everything will get fine when it stays the way it is, thats an illusion reality already revealed. And telling yourself everything is fine, by being on the edge of exitence, thats just lying to yourself.

 

Hawken lacks proper target audience advertising and it lacks true motivation, a real goal to go for. Just being another arena shooter is not very motivating for people that played many of them already, because then Why hawken and not one of all the others?.

But Hawken will need this to keep alive. These flaws are very obvious if you come fresh from the outside.

 

And now, good night everyone its 2 am, need some sleep

Edited by Lily_from_animove, 28 April 2015 - 03:54 PM.

[Nightfirebolt]

The game as it was, was not able to survive well obviously. 

 

You don't know what you're talking about.  There was (and is) nothing wrong with Hawken itself. Even after the old developers completely abandoned the game, the community kept Hawken alive with 200-400 people online at all times, feeding it money. Why do you think that is? It's not because it's a bad game. The only reason we lost players is because the updates stopped, and that only happened because the old developers mismanaged their money and screwed things up from a business perspective. People felt the game was ded, so they left. Do some research before you make such a blanket statement.

 

This game will have to sustain a steady amount of income to keep alive, because thats the way it is designed. Hawken does nto have the playerbase luxury to be in that position. 

 

It did at one time. In fact, it hit a daily peak of over 8,000 players once, which put it alongside the top 25 most-played games on Steam. With proper attention, I could see the game reaching those record numbers again. After all, within a month of Reloaded taking over we have already doubled our playerbase and tripled our daily peak records.

 

 

The mass of players that decided not to play it much further past initial testing already proofes it may be not as great as you think it is.

 

What "mass" of players? Do you have any sources on this? As far as steamcharts reports, the game is only growing exponentially at this point.

 

 

And for someone that works in marketing for a living you should be able to see why its a massive issue to attract a niche audience and then not even deliver what they expect. 

 

I agree that Hawken needs to decide whether it's going to be a mech game or an arena shooter. But even with these ambiguities, Hawken is still a great game, always has been. I also understand that games need to "grab" the player within the first few hours of playing, but I imagine that won't happen to everyone and that's OK. It will still survive, with or without you.

Edited by Nightfirebolt, 28 April 2015 - 07:18 PM.

[Superkamikazee]

Increasethespeeds, raise the skill ceiling to infinity, all problems solved.

/thread good night

[KilleR_OrigiNs]

Redacted.

Edited by KilleR_OrigiNs, 30 April 2015 - 09:35 PM.

[Silverfire]

My favorite game of all time is a game called Dystopia.

With a modded engine from the CS 1.5 (I think), the game is crazy advanced for it's time.

The player average is about... Ten, I think. If you think your game will survive years of no improvement, years with the exact same people to play with, and the same tactics to deal with, then by all means, hold dear to your game.

 

It will drag you to it's grave.

 

Except that fear should be shelved for now given Hawken's renewed development.  I feared this may happen with Hawken, and it looked like it would happen, but Reloaded appeared at the 11th hour and saved it.  More people are coming to the game, I see more new names than I have in months. Tactics generally remain the same as the meta hasn't changed a whole lot, but with added content, which will come at an unspecified later date, improvement will come, and tactics may change.

 

Hawken isn't dead yet.

[KilleR_OrigiNs]

Redacted. 

Edited by KilleR_OrigiNs, 30 April 2015 - 09:35 PM.

[Leonhardt]

My favorite game of all time is a game called Dystopia.

With a modded engine from the CS 1.5 (I think), the game is crazy advanced for it's time.

The player average is about... Ten, I think. If you think your game will survive years of no improvement, years with the exact same people to play with, and the same tactics to deal with, then by all means, hold dear to your game.

 

It will drag you to it's grave.

 

 

[Silverfire]

And it won't die.

Reloaded will save it, and the game will live. But the only way to save it, is to make changes, to make progress.

Hindering that change will be detrimental to the game.

 

I don't think anyone wants to hinder change to the game.  Nobody is advertising for a stagnant game, nobody.  I don't see how players telling a newer player to keep on playing because we know the system gets better as you play longer = not advertising for change.  It means that the player should try to stick through it and see if it does indeed get better, because we all know that it certainly does.  Games shouldn't show all the game has to offer in the first 10 hours, otherwise what'd be the point in sticking around?  It takes time to peel back the layers and see the depth.  You might wade into the ocean, the shallow shore for 10 minutes, see that you can touch the bottom, and then conclude that the ocean isn't deep at all because for all the 10 minutes you've been out there going out to sea, you can still touch the bottom with your feet.  You don't understand the true depth of the ocean (or the game in this analogy) because you haven't gone far enough out. Particularly for an experienced gamer.  Some say the learning curve for Hawken is steep and that it's tough to get into the game, and some say there isn't really one that exists.  For an experienced gamer, there might not be much of a learning curve if all you see initially are noob players who don't know how to move or aim.  Take time to get to the good players and then reevaluate.

 

Remember, this is but ONE player giving feedback. Hawken isn't for everyone.  Overall, the game has seen a steady increase in the number of active players.  I appreciate what the OP has written and has responded to certain points respectfully and politely, and I appreciate that.  Points are valid, just not necessarily indicative of a larger trend.

Edited by Silverfire, 28 April 2015 - 06:36 PM.

[CraftyDus]

There are 3 people, friends of mine who I'd met at LAN before the towers fell, still playing forsaken in an irc channel on quakenet somewhere.

They are the forsaken game community.

 

Half my steam friends are day of defeat players, half of them still play. last week I got an announce for a 12 man on fury vent.

Valve stopped touching that game in 2007. TPG's 34th season was last year. They are the DoD game community.

 

I know Dead Games. Dead Games are a friend of mine. You Hawken, are no Dead Dame.

Your best years as a game and as a community are ahead of you.

 

In the meantime innumerable awful piles of crap will come and go in pc vidya.

Those will mark the tides while you nurse the S.A.V. of your Hawken in perpetuity.

 

Because every once in a great while a game comes along that is unlike all others in a way that is difficult to explain to casual observers.

And it produces a precocious loyalty in those who have recognized it.

Hawken is one of those games.

[Dedhed]

Good to see honest feedback from a new player.

 

A lot of ideas have been floated around for a while and I'm sure Reloaded is aware of many. Looking forward to the future of Hawken with consideration to both old players and new.

[?FTD? eXeon]

This game has a god awful new player experience, if I came into the game as a casual like the OP then I would probably have quit too. Go make a new account and instead of playing, just spectate for a couple games(unless your teams losing, then help get a lead and then spectate for a bit), the game they're playing is not the same as the one I've been playing for a few years now. People don't utilize the mechanics given to them because they've never been taught how, there aren't 50+ streamers with highly skilled players littered throughout them that new players can watch and learn from, they have to learn it themselves which is a very rare thing in the spoonfed casual gaming culture we live in nowadays.

 

The one thing that struck me as wow, did they really just say that, was their comment regarding the tutorial,

The tutorial itself was nice, not boring and gave you all the controls needed.

I CANT BELIEVE HOW WRONG THIS COMMENT IS, excuse my usual bluntness. The saddest part is this player and probably most new players think the tutorial is adequate to teach you hawken, it isn't. The reason why people think you need 100+ hours of hawken to learn is because you have to learn the game yourself and many players took a very long time to figure out most of the 'basics'. The tutorial may give you a small insight into what options you have but, you can't even grasp how to utilize them properly with just 80 minutes played. 

 

I've only ever brought one person into hawken who was capable of grasping how to even perform at an above average level in under a week even with getting tips and tricks spoonfed to them by myself, this person has also been Grand Master in SC2, multi glad in wow, and competed at a high level in CS 1.6. I don't think anyone needs 100+ hours to see that there is far more depth in hawken than at first glance but, I do think that the amount of time it does require is far higher than it should be. This all comes down to the fact that the tutorial doesn't explain SHI T about how to actually play hawken.

 

As to the other argument going on here, you should really read the OP's main post and almost all of it is "but this isn't like the very few mech games I have experience with." Which is just a narrow minded opinion, have you never seen Zone of Enders or any of the Gundam games? I guess those aren't mech games either. But, this is their own opinion and they're free to think how 'mech'ish a game needs to be to be considered a 'mech' game.

 

It does suck that new players who are good at shooters are forced to play with people much worse than them but, that is how skill based matchmakers work. If you put in more time and get higher I promise you will not think this game is easy. Add 'scrimbot' to your friends and type 'mmr' to see where you land, you usually wont find any good players under 2200 mmr.

[Nept]

I will now be using the words "Scrubism" and "Scrubist" profusely.

[ticklemyiguana]

I will now be using the words "Scrubism" and "Scrubist" profusely.

Only after you fully integrate the term "beach" into your vocabulary.

Edited by ticklemyiguana, 28 April 2015 - 11:45 PM.

[Grollourdo]

Well this is a very interesting thread XD

I put my time, effort and my phone's battery in this XD

So ... Its awesome to have an honest one here XD and to be honest, at first sight of your post lol I thought you were flaming the game XD it kinda got me pissed XD lol
After reading more and more I saw you were actually trying to make a constructive view of the game and all

OK so... Moving on XD

I think that a lot if points you said is true, but a lot of them have reasons XD and a lot are false XD (and funny when a person who has been here for a long time reads them XD)


It is true that the game lacks a tiny bit of work on some aspects but I think overall the game is AWSOME especially for a free to play! XD

The assault is actually a very good much in the right hands and is very balanced (as the other guy said XD)

Tho we gotta consider the adhesive age and the silent age

Yes there is a balancer... Uugh...

I think that this game has an AWSOME community, that is one of the aspects of the game too

The community here is just soooo awesome, everyone (ok maybe exagerating that a lil XD) here gets along etc. The community is not that toxic AT ALL XD

WELL... My battery is out so I should stop here and maybe post more another time XD

Groll

[Lily_from_animove]

 Games shouldn't show all the game has to offer in the first 10 hours

 

Wrong, the game needs to show in the first 10 hours what is has to offer; yet it should not give it that to you. Thats quite a big difference, because when you will see, in testing 10 hours, there is something amazing coming, this keeps people playing. And currently hawken does not do this.

 

You don't know what you're talking about.  There was (and is) nothing wrong with Hawken itself. Even after the old developers completely abandoned the game, the community kept Hawken alive with 200-400 people online at all times, feeding it money. Why do you think that is? It's not because it's a bad game. The only reason we lost players is because the updates stopped, and that only happened because the old developers mismanaged their money and screwed things up from a business perspective. People felt the game was ded, so they left. Do some research before you make such a blanket statement.

 

 

It did at one time. In fact, it hit a daily peak of over 8,000 players once, which put it alongside the top 25 most-played games on Steam. With proper attention, I could see the game reaching those record numbers again. After all, within a month of Reloaded taking over we have already doubled our playerbase and tripled our daily peak records.

 

 

What "mass" of players? Do you have any sources on this? As far as steamcharts reports, the game is only growing exponentially at this point.

 

 

I agree that Hawken needs to decide whether it's going to be a mech game or an arena shooter. But even with these ambiguities, Hawken is still a great game, always has been. I also understand that games need to "grab" the player within the first few hours of playing, but I imagine that won't happen to everyone and that's OK. It will still survive, with or without you.

 

600 people, wow, and they pay a bit here and there. Do you knwow hat the current slary of a programmer is?

200-400 people kept the game alive? Cmon that is more a small circle of fans than actually a playerBASE. Be a bit realistic about the scale that you are talking. 200-400 people, In APB the community says the game is dead. yet has a way higher amount of players than hawken.

 

and your source? lets have a objective look at it

 

http://steamcharts.com/app/271290#3m

 

What you see in this source is, that after HAWKEN appeared on the G1 website there is sudden increase in players. These Are the ones of G1's gamers that saw a new game appear and testing it. But you also see, there is already a steep drop again. So lets see how this line proceeds in the next two month.

 

And this is the history of your game

 

http://steamcharts.com/app/271290#All

 

If you truly think the game will survive with this amount of players you really need a reality check.

daily peak of 8k palyers, yeah easy for a f2p game that appears on Steam. but the truth is, any f2p can do this when randombob and even his mom test a f2p game.

 

And the fact that this belly is just at around one month heavily declining does show you, from all those testers, the game didn't hooked up a lot. And now go to the steam store and filter for f2p games, and look the all time statisticsof every of these games. And tell me how many do you find having such a sad line of player count development? Amongst the millions of steam gamers nearly any of these games made quite a nice catch of a proper amount of players. Many kept a rather static one even. So people who were interested kept interested or at leats playing.

 

So how can you deny, looking at this sad line of all time statistic that hakwen has, that something in this game went horribly wrong from the very beginning, even back in those "great" days. People ran away from this game nearly instant, this is what the all time statistics reveal you. The lakc of new stuff coming has rarely to do with it, because after 2 month people were mostly gone again. And this is not "lack of content" related. Thats simply "lack of interest" related.

 

Open your eyes and see this truth.

 

I have done my research, have you tried to see the big picture?

Becaue history starts to repeat, G1 aquired the game, population rises. It rises because people test it. But will it hook them up, or will it again as in its beginning go low again?

 

I gave you my point of view in the OP, why the game has this issues, and many of my friends share similar ones. But they do not care enough to even make any post and give feedback. I am not one, I am one of many, I am just the one that tells you why he probably not will stick with the game. While others never bothered to care enough giving you this information.

 

Because as many said, the game is decent, yet why does the entire gamer crowd liking arena shooters not stick with hawken? Thats not just the "it's not for everyone" thing. And the Issue I see is mostly how the game is advertised and what testing is causing in someones mind. Which is simply not much interest. While this may not even require much work to be changed into something that will motivate people.

 

 

Because every once in a great while a game comes along that is unlike all others in a way that is difficult to explain to casual observers.

And it produces a precocious loyalty in those who have recognized it.

Hawken is one of those games.

 

 

Sry to disappoint you, but no hawken is not, there is no true and unique stuff in hawken, evertyhing hawken has already existed. The only thing hawken does, is wrap it in a unique setting of skins. And with those few 100's of players. And in 10 years this game will mostlikely not exist anymore, if no dev does create a standalone version of it.

 

@Exeon Well the Tutorial was decent, a tutorial should lern you the basic controls of a game. Anything past that is initially not so important to be part of the tutorial. I played games where half or more of just standard controls was not even explained.  How should people get into deeper mechanics or even tactics, when they do not even know this? They can't. A tutorial giving you controls properly is usually enough, The rest should naturally develop with the playtime because this natural development of many tiny steps at improving is what keeps many people entertained. With looking at hawkens playeramount, and the way how less player it hooks up, I wonder of those palyers you obseved are actually playing this game for a long time, or if most of them are just testing it and leaving it already before they get the intention to step deeper into the mechanics.

Maybe the game needs a harder AI, and PvE challanges that then will softly force you to use deeper mechancis and tactics hawken offers. Also these kind of PvE challanges will then also help people to have a goal, working to compelte them.

The game has a achievements, but honestly, today so many games have so many achievements and most of them are so low that they are just "play enough and get it without effort" that hardly anyone cares about achievments anymore and bothering with those endless lists of achievments.

 

 

So all in all, Hawken may have that great thing somewhere, but thousends of people that have tested this game, because it seems to be in their field of interest. And those people either did not agree, or simply never have gotten the lookout for these great feature. And it is not related to the devs or their activities in the past, which the steam chats clearly shows. Because these people left nearly INSTANT. And with those few hundred players it has, and their amount of money thes spent, - IF they spent any at all - The game will very unlikely sustain proper development, because this actually costs real money. It will at minimum keep somehwat alive, but then you have the same issue coming as the old publisher: No new content, no additions to the game, decreaisng further playerbase.

The game presents itself in the most boring way I have seen the past years. And this is a rather simple issue to address and change.

Some of you really should stop hoping, that a new publisher will suddenly make this game succeed while it stays the way it is, because that chance it had already, and it did not worked. Changes have to be done, but no matter what amazing feature G1 may add, as long as the new players testing time does not amaze him or is showing him this amazing feature to coming he will not stick with the game.

[Broham78]

HAWKEN vs. MWO Deathmatch when?  

Edited by Broham78, 02 May 2015 - 02:12 PM.