164 replies to this topic

[raging_squirrel]

5 minutes and Hawken search on the MWO forums proves Lily had her mind made up long before she even clicked the download button, and deliberately came here to post walls of pretentious text and belittle our game and community. I'm not sorry for giving her my 2 cents.

I picked up my love of mechs as a Battletech Firestorm pilot actually shelling out money for every match back in the 90's. I should have some nostalgic loyalty towards MWO. I even bought my first gaming laptop specifically to play it. The fact is I hated it and was profoundly disappointed. I waited so many years for a comparable experience to Firestorm and Hawken is what pulled it off, even without having an actual cockpit to sit in. That's no small feat.

But... you won't see me on MWO forums stirring up trouble telling them their mechs are ugly,or that their game sucks and isn't real mech game and should be like Hawken because that's what I want and my opinion is supreme.

 

Everyone is entitled to their opinions.. but are you writing this reply from some sort of parallel universe ? because this makes no sense in response to what the OP topic was about.

[Broham78]

Everyone is entitled to their opinions.. but are you writing this reply from some sort of parallel universe ? because this makes no sense in response to what the OP topic was about.

 

 

"It's a FPS arena shooter, but not a real mech game."

 

 

"Wow, this was underwhelming, my piece of junk will just eb able to look like another piece of junk."

 

 

 

It makes perfect sense.

[KilleR_OrigiNs]

Redacted. 

Edited by KilleR_OrigiNs, 30 April 2015 - 09:33 PM.

[Nept]

You haven't moved one minute beyond the little you have run around the other day in an assault poking noobs who don't shoot back.

Listen, I'd rather not believe you are the sort who prefers playing at internet forum over actually playing video games.

 

But you've officially spent more time posting on Hawken forums than in the game of Hawken playing.

No matter how much maturity and objectivity awaken in me, I doubt anyone'll be seeing much of you outside of a forum posting.

Now or later.

GG

 

Rekt.  HASHTAG DEPORT THE SCRUBISTS

[AngryOgre]

 

 

 

And if I ignored every one person I talked to, I would be considered ignorant.

I appreciate your intent, but you have not understood what I have said. And please do not think that I write these things with a bitterness of any form, they are my thoughts, and they are nothing more.

 

If this one player were ever interested in playing this game, they would play it. If they liked what they played, but wanted it to be made better, they would attempt to provide some feedback and suggestions. If the community begins to insult and attack that player, why would they continue to play?

Then what happens to that players friends? Are they going to be interested in playing a game where the community insulted and rejected someone they knew and cared for? No, they wont. So rather than loosing one, you've lost five. Then you take that and add it to every new player in the same position, or a likewise one. It adds and adds. It doesn't take into consideration the negative reviews, the misinformed comments... It just thinks of this one player, and his four friends.

 

This player specifically has proven they care for this game, but all anyone can see is the grammar mistakes and the negative connotation of their thoughts. It is still more proof that this community is toxic, but it is not something anyone is willing to admit.

It is shameful to see it in such a state, as I have gloated and bragged of this amazing community, only to come back and read comments like:

 

 

 

 

It is these types of thoughts that will stain the mind of anyone reading. They will be turned away from this game by the players and their need to defend what already is. The worst part, is that this is not the first player to have these thoughts, as you, Silverfire, have said.

 

HAWKEN will not die, but if the player base is to grow, others must be willing to listen to what is said without forming an opinion. Once you have thought of what the other has said, then you may make an opinion and say as much.
 

This is the reason I view my words to have such weight. Every word I say, write, or express in any manner will effect someone greatly. This may not be actually true, but so long that I speak this way, there is no chance of misunderstanding.

 

 

 

A million time this. Very well said. 

[Nightfirebolt]

 

Open your eyes and see this truth.

 

Your thesis seems to be: "I played this game for ten hours and didn't like it, so you should all hate it too."

 

Sorry, but that isn't gonna happen. I can promise you that I genuinely have fun every time I log in, and it's not because I'm somehow deluded. Hawken is, and will remain, one of my favourite games of all time - for good reasons.

 

I'm not sure why you're continuing to argue with us if you've already made up your mind about the game. Your posts aren't going to somehow convince us to hate the game or leave. You're wasting your time and energy.

Edited by Nightfirebolt, 30 April 2015 - 12:59 PM.

[IareDave]

And if I ignored every one person I talked to, I would be considered ignorant.

I appreciate your intent, but you have not understood what I have said. And please do not think that I write these things with a bitterness of any form, they are my thoughts, and they are nothing more.

If this one player were ever interested in playing this game, they would play it. If they liked what they played, but wanted it to be made better, they would attempt to provide some feedback and suggestions. If the community begins to insult and attack that player, why would they continue to play?

Then what happens to that players friends? Are they going to be interested in playing a game where the community insulted and rejected someone they know and care for? No, they wont. So rather than loosing one, you've lost five. Then you take that and add it to every new player in the same position, or a likewise one. It adds and adds. It doesn't take into consideration the negative reviews, the misinformed comments... It just thinks of this one player, and their four friends.

This player specifically has proven they care for this game, but all anyone can see is the grammar mistakes and the negative connotation of their thoughts. It is still more proof that this community is toxic, but it is not something anyone is willing to admit.

It is shameful to see it in such a state, as I have gloated and bragged of this amazing community, only to come back and read comments like:




It is these types of thoughts that will stain the mind of anyone reading. They will be turned away from this game by the players and their need to defend what already is. The worst part, is that this is not the first player to have these thoughts, as you, Silverfire, have said.

HAWKEN will not die, but if the player base is to grow, others must be willing to listen to what is said without forming an opinion. Once you have thought of what the other has said, then you may make an opinion and say as much.

This is the reason I view my words to have such weight. Every word I say, write, or express in any manner will effect someone greatly. This may not be actually true, but so long that I speak this way, there is no chance of misunderstanding.

Bruh, we aren't discussing about the holocaust here so stop taking this so seriously. People disagree with OP, which leads to discussion. sometimes people throw insults, sometimes people respond passively aggressive, and if you can't handle either of the two then social interactions aren't your thing.

[KilleR_OrigiNs]

Redacted. 

Edited by KilleR_OrigiNs, 30 April 2015 - 09:32 PM.

[Nept]

Melodrama levels have officially exceeded 9000.

[ThirdEyE]

You see, though it may be socially acceptable to insult some, and speak vagrantly of others, that means nothing to me personally.

At one point, it was considered socially acceptable for white people to be treated better than black people. It had nothing to do with intelligence, or with reasoning other than that of power.

Wow, that is quite a fantastic parallel between racism and insult.  If you really think the two are comparable, you are a lost cause.

[KilleR_OrigiNs]

Redacted.

Edited by KilleR_OrigiNs, 30 April 2015 - 09:32 PM.

[Nept]

http://www.thefreedi...y.com/Vagrantly

[PoopSlinger]

 

 

 

rabid fanboy checking in

stop criticizing my "favorite game" (wtf are the quotes there for?)

I can't take it.

 

 

 

You've played this game less than 80 minutes, achieving level 13.

You "wrecked" in the lobbies where players don't turn to look at you when you light them up, let alone shoot back.

 

Your perspective about how "simple" the game feels is tainted by ranked matchmaking which coddles new players and keeps them from players who move and shoot back.

 

That comment about flying, thanks for that. I've heard it before.

It's funny that at the start that spacebar is full of win.

Later on it makes you the slowest and most visible target in the server.

 

Spacebar is always full of win.

[Lily_from_animove]

You can wreck lower tier lobbies easily by simply having previous experience on other shooters and simply aiming better than your opponents, but you will run into trouble against higher tier players and you can't rely on pure aim anymore, which is when you are playing the real Hawken.

 

Which is the "real hawken" the one 5% play, or the one 95% play?

because

 

This tells me i am already top 10%, and this withotu being able to know and identify most emchs by their shape. Without having deeper knowledge what specific modules actually do, without knowledge about deeper teamplay, since I still solo, and the only teamtactics so far is: "Stick together", "kill their engineer first" And basic chat commands, like where to go.

 

When this makes you already top 10%. something is not really good. and when as many of you replied here the game "starts" to be great or whatever at 2000+, that means only 3% of the playerbase is actually really playing the game. Where would I end joining a unit/clan and getting deeper in this? probably very easily in 2k+ as well.

But the question then is, Do you guys play the real hawken? Because the entire other playerbase seems to play a different game. Thats a reason why I can not give much about the "top player feedback". They may be right with what they say about their game, but this game that they play is behind a massive "skill wall" And the majority of your community is not even getting closely there.

But the suggestion of most of you for a new player is to get to the top 3%? How can you guys (and I guess those I mean know who they are) say such a thing without realising how nonsense this is to tell a new player. And the graph shows, that not much changes happened during those 7 days in the MMR distribution.

 

 

 

This game needs to deliver a fun and solid base experience for people around 1350 othewise its not going to increase its playerbase sufficiently nor sustain it.

 

 

 

I'd wager the difference between 1600-2000 mmr would be the equivilent of silver2-silverelite.

 

 

Quite interetsing and by facts rather backup'ed state, because there is a smooth distribution in the graph going on form around 1700. but that 1500 peak, dropping so stale, there is the point where soemthign si wrong, espeically when you say " the real fun and true hawken lies at X, with X being behind that peak.

 

so to hook up people, by features and gaming experience, the base feature making the game great needs to hit those dark blue amount of people and above.

 

And it is strangely coincedencethat the steam graph had like 8k players peak, and then dropping dow to around merely 700 players. because that again shows that truly around 10% players are those sticking over a long term with the game. While the lower end is probably mostly some newbies tryind and leaving the game again. (that may be an assumption, yet is very likely what happens)

Edited by Lily_from_animove, 15 May 2015 - 07:13 AM.

[CraftyDus]

 

This tells me i am already top 10%, 

 

What's your mmr for your 361 kills?

This graph is a sample of 8 days, you played an hour and change over 2 days, are you comparing the two?

How are you parsing time played from this sample of one week and using it to come to conclusions about player retention over months or years?

 

 

 

 

I said that I'd wager the difference between 1600/2000 mmr is akin to the difference of s2/sem.

In that, it's not a large skill difference, but large to those in it. 

Basing that off of 560+ hours/1,450+ hours played in each game and playing through rankings in both games.

 

I have no idea what you are saying in response to it.

 

Spoiler

[IareDave]

Which is the "real hawken" the one 5% play, or the one 95% play?
because


This tells me i am already top 10%, and this withotu being able to know and identify most emchs by their shape. Without having deeper knowledge what specific modules actually do, without knowledge about deeper teamplay, since I still solo, and the only teamtactics so far is: "Stick together", "kill their engineer first" And basic chat commands, like where to go.

When this makes you already top 10%. something is not really good. and when as many of you replied here the game "starts" to be great or whatever at 2000+, that means only 3% of the playerbase is actually really playing the game. Where would I end joining a unit/clan and getting deeper in this? probably very easily in 2k+ as well.
But the question then is, Do you guys play the real hawken? Because the entire other playerbase seems to play a different game. Thats a reason why I can not give much about the "top player feedback". They may be right with what they say about their game, but this game that they play is behind a massive "skill wall" And the majority of your community is not even getting closely there.
But the suggestion of most of you for a new player is to get to the top 3%? How can you guys (and I guess those I mean know who they are) say such a thing without realising how nonsense this is to tell a new player. And the graph shows, that not much changes happened during those 7 days in the MMR distribution.



This game needs to deliver a fun and solid base experience for people around 1350 othewise its not going to increase its playerbase sufficiently nor sustain it.



Quite interetsing and by facts rather backup'ed state, because there is a smooth distribution in the graph going on form around 1700. but that 1500 peak, dropping so stale, there is the point where soemthign si wrong, espeically when you say " the real fun and true hawken lies at X, with X being behind that peak.

so to hook up people, by features and gaming experience, the base feature making the game great needs to hit those dark blue amount of people and above.

And it is strangely coincedencethat the steam graph had like 8k players peak, and then dropping dow to around merely 700 players. because that again shows that truly around 10% players are those sticking over a long term with the game. While the lower end is probably mostly some newbies tryind and leaving the game again. (that may be an assumption, yet is very likely what happens)

I find it laughable that you seem to think you know so much about the game, and along with your list of complaints you don't offer a single piece of helpful, constructive opinion. You simply state, and your general tone is; "this x aspect of the game is wrong". "You will not grow in player base"... Etc.

To get you started with MMR, you aren't considered good in the competitive community until you hit 2200-2300. There are quite a few players above that mark and that's when the players have mastered the basics and the more high level stuff such as predicting movements and team play start coming into place. Sub 2000 MMR you are just learning the basics, so according to the MMR you are better than most casual players but don't think the competition in this game isn't there and that you're already some 'elite'.

Honestly, if you're here to stay cool. But if you're just here to nitpick stuff without knowing the games history at all and ways to improve, then you're not helping anybody. The game was recently dead for months, and now the debs are in the process of rebuilding it. Why aren't there a large number of players, because Reloaded hasn't advertised it seriously yet. And they aren't, for good reason, because the game is still broken in parts of the back end / balance and there's no point in promoting a damaged game. So what do you think this game could use for more improvement, besides more players.

[Lily_from_animove]

What's your mmr for your 361 kills?

This graph is a sample of 8 days, you played an hour and change over 2 days, are you comparing the two?

How are you parsing time played from this sample of one week and using it to come to conclusions about player retention over months or years?

 

 

 

 

I said that I'd wager the difference between 1600/2000 mmr is akin to the difference of s2/sem.

In that, it's not a large skill difference, but large to those in it. 

Basing that off of 560+ hours/1,450+ hours played in each game and playing through rankings in both games.

 

I have no idea what you are saying in response to it.

 

Spoiler

 

My mmr was 1640 or 1650 ish. Dunno haven't paid much attention to this. But that was not withitn the last week, didn't had time to play hawken. But since MMR seems not to fluctuate much, I doubt it looked much different last week

 

Player rentention over years? the steam graph showed that after 2 month most were gone, Thats a fact.

Just use a bit of logic and common sense please.

 

and you entire issue is again your 1600 game difference to 2000. You are speaking about a game that is not palyed by 90% of its playerbase. Can you please for the sake of this game stop talking about these ranks? The game has its ussues far below these because this is where oyur playerbase is that you can not sustain, but this is the base palyerbase a game needs for a proper heathy population and income.

 

be more analytical:

 

Steam says the average gamers hawken has is 590. for may. if that graph above relates to this, this means you have roughly 61x as much individual players as the steam statictiscs shows.

 

so from the peak of hawkens 8357 players at stema launch, this can then be around individual 510k players until 31st of march, this aleady dropped to 3603 players, or 220  players.

 

This means in one and a half month every minute, 4 people have quit the game.

If you now truly think that those people even tested this game past 10 hours, you must be very naive or ignorant. And everytime you try to tell me antyhing from your "hawken world" that is past 100 hours and that is at 1800+MMR then you simply do not see (or don't want to see) where the issue of this game is. 

 

And now please be so kind and go to steam and show me any online game that has such a massive "bad" player amount courve in his steam life. I have yet not seen one. I only saw a few games that entered steam lousy as they were. Not even DayZ which was one of the most broken buggeed and worst games that saw the light of gaming had such a bad startup. Hawken initially had a load people with interest, and they were lost instant, not by lack of developement as some claimed.  This game needs the 1300-1400 MMR gamers for a healthy state. from those 590 average players, how many are there at 1800+?  http://home.xshade.c...ent/7-days/mmr/

not much people at all. given you distribute them amongst the averages. Low to a degree MM gets issues to ensure fun for most. Yet you want the other players to get to top 3%. Care to explain how you wanna motivate them going there? You won't they will mostly not be bale to get there at all by their natural skill, and further with where their skill is they seem to prefer leaving the game. Yeha cool, form your point of view, they are all noobs and lowies having no idea how the game works. But that does not care them, because They play other games, while you should truly worry about the existence of your game.

 

 

surely, all those numbers are very much estimations, But I am quite sure they are rather accurate,

 

 

 

I find it laughable that you seem to think you know so much about the game, and along with your list of complaints you don't offer a single piece of helpful, constructive opinion. You simply state, and your general tone is; "this x aspect of the game is wrong". "You will not grow in player base"... Etc.

To get you started with MMR, you aren't considered good in the competitive community until you hit 2200-2300. There are quite a few players above that mark and that's when the players have mastered the basics and the more high level stuff such as predicting movements and team play start coming into place. Sub 2000 MMR you are just learning the basics, so according to the MMR you are better than most casual players but don't think the competition in this game isn't there and that you're already some 'elite'.

Honestly, if you're here to stay cool. But if you're just here to nitpick stuff without knowing the games history at all and ways to improve, then you're not helping anybody. The game was recently dead for months, and now the debs are in the process of rebuilding it. Why aren't there a large number of players, because Reloaded hasn't advertised it seriously yet. And they aren't, for good reason, because the game is still broken in parts of the back end / balance and there's no point in promoting a damaged game. So what do you think this game could use for more improvement, besides more players.

 

 

dat ignorance, I do not need to know the game to see that your attemp to tell me something about 2200+ ranges is mostly ignorant, foolish and stupid, because how many are there? 1% of 36k weekly players? Good luck, for those 360 people trying to run the game.

 

I don't think you and Dustin have a remotely close understanding about your own game anymore, you just understand your little top game meta world, and nothing below that.

 

And no, sub 2k you are not lerning the basics, the MMR distribution shows that the basics are passed at 1600MMR, Given you can read numbers. And for reading those numbers, you do not even need to have deeper knowledge about the game. because statistical analysis is what comes into effect here.

 

Its not nitpicking, I try t show you the regions where the game has issues while you try to tell me I am wrong. But I can backup this quite with reflections in the graphs. While all you come over is, how I do not know the game and soemthing about 2000+ and loads of hours thingies, which is not remotely close to the world your players play except you few elitists that seem to be too stubborn accepting the issues I try to show you.

Edited by Lily_from_animove, 16 May 2015 - 12:25 AM.

[Silverfire]

Instead of talking about numbers you think you understand (and the FACT that you are willfully ignoring years of data and solely paying attention to a small snippet of Hawken's life), how about talk about something that could potentially help the game? Like seriously where's the constructive part? Is Hawken doomed because of your numbers analysis? No, it's not. I lived in all parts of that MMR ranges, therefore I have the experience of it all. Do you?

Edited by Silverfire, 15 May 2015 - 08:28 AM.

[Nept]

https://community.pl...on-development/

 

If you're planning on posting about the game's direction, please keep my thoughts in mind. We're a tad tired of seeing people claim that their balance/gameplay suggestion will revitalize the community and attract throngs of eager gamers. It won't. The people who are interested in playing an arena mech shooter will play Hawken. The people who aren't interested will not.

Edited by Nept, 15 May 2015 - 08:50 AM.

[GalaxyRadio]

Instead of talking about numbers you think you understand (and the FACT that you are willfully ignoring years of data and solely paying attention to a small snippet of Hawken's life), how about talk about something that could potentially help the game? Like seriously where's the constructive part? Is Hawken doomed because of your numbers analysis? No, it's not. I lived in all parts of that MMR ranges, therefore I have the experience of it all. Do you?

 

All her posts are more helpful than your's, iam very sorry for you.

 

The only Playerbase Hawken has are ONLY new Players and the Elite, between this there is almost nothing.

 

So, the fact is, almost all are losing their interest in the initial phase and only a few try and stay for a little longer and only the rest of the elite stays and play further every day againts each other, which becomes pretty boring.

 

Iam on of the Top 2% of the player and won't say here that what she says is wrong, because its not, you guys just don't want to see it or say "that a person can only evaluate a work of art when it is itself artists".

 

Thumbs Up Lily. The only thing we need know is, what can the new devs change to make this game work for a bigger community. I remembered what a friend of mine said. Here worked up until he past 2000 mmr and yet he is only there to loose every time againts better player, so he is somewhere from bottom to middle and nowhere near the top 2 places and lost interesit, because he dies more then he can kills often and he represents already one of the top player.

 

Have a nice weekend,

 

Galaxy Radio

[IareDave]

 

So, the fact is, almost all are losing their interest in the initial phase and only a few try and stay for a little longer and only the rest of the elite stays and play further every day againts each other, which becomes pretty boring.

 

What fact? Do you have this information on hand? What reasoning do you have for this mystical fact you claim?

 

 

Iam on of the Top 2% of the player and won't say here that what she says is wrong, because its not, you guys just don't want to see it or say "that a person can only evaluate a work of art when it is itself artists".

 

I think the general intelligence level of the people in this community is high enough to know that you just don't spew off complaints about a game constantly and act like you know everything whilst not giving any supporting criticism or tips. It's like me showing up at a party and saying the drinks suck and the food is bad. All you'll get in the real world is a stern look and a kick in the ass because no one likes people that just bring the place down. 

 

All her posts are more helpful than your's, iam very sorry for you.

 

And what of yours, Galaxy Radio?

[Silverfire]

I'm just curious what lily thinks could be done to fix instead of listing "wrong things". Nothing I've seen has posed a solution, and if I missed it, whoops.

[LaurenEmily]

All her posts are more helpful than your's, iam very sorry for you.

 

The only Playerbase Hawken has are ONLY new Players and the Elite, between this there is almost nothing.

 

I don't think this is entirely true, there are also 'mid-tier' players who have a good understanding of the game without being in that 'elite club' and they play for fun and are just as real and important.

[CraftyDus]

hope this helps

 

 

[WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW]

1) Player A uses Criticism!
2) Player B counters with Deflection!
3) Player B counters with Red Herring!
4) Criticism was deflected and negated and ignored!

The signs of a healthy community. I can't wait to sit in queue forever so that I can play with the same 50 people over and over again.

[Hyginos]

This thread is still going?

 

I'm almost curious if I need to dig up my old MWO account and poke around those forums to get some context.

[MomOw]

I don't think this is entirely true, there are also 'mid-tier' players who have a good understanding of the game without being in that 'elite club' and they play for fun and are just as real and important.

 

<3

 

It's so hard to find 1800MMR that is not (2100+1500)/2

[coldform]

Superskrub with an MMR=ILIKEPIE here. And I have a fat and smelly opinion to share with all of you.

The "mid range"(1600-2000) player base is filled with players who love this game. The REAL 3%-er elitists are those that share OP's mindset, and-IMO - think that THEY should be "top tier" players.

The REAL hawken starts the moment you find your groove with a particular mech. I play the REAL hawken. Right alongside everybody else who is "above" me.

/rant

Edited by coldform, 15 May 2015 - 01:09 PM.

[Hijinks_The_Turtle]

Guys, remember what ReEvolve said here.  I think it's still relevant:

 

That's not just complaining it's feedback and the OP took a lot of effort trying to give constructive feedback and I think with most parts he/she succeeded. You know, constructive feedback is a good thing. For example the OP pointed out that the game is being promoted in a wrong way and it might actually get more players if that gets changed. Telling someone to stop posting because you don't agree with the feedback is just rude and utterly stupid. That will give new players the impression that this community consists of rabid fanboys/fangirls who can't take any criticism of their "favorite game". Please reconsider if you really want to give off that impression. You don't have to approve of everyone's opinion but actually participating in a discussion is way better than saying "your opinion differs from mine so go away".

 

From looking through this thread, I believe something needs to change.  The low numbers are quite evident that something isn't working.  First of all, the Hawken Steam trailer shows nothing of what the actual gameplay is like.  It almost fooled me into thinking Hawken was a slower paced shooter, despite me playing Hawken beforehand.

 

I'm just not sure what to change, as I'm admittedly not too familiar with the balance overall in Hawken.  I do know this:

 

-Due to low population, balance issues are more noticeable due to lack of people playing Hakwen.

 

-Hawken has the unique issue where a classes are ideal for stomping around in low tier matches, yet are extremely hard to use in mid to high tier matches.  It's also the inverse for c class mechs.  Harder to use in low tier servers if not used to them, yet c classes are invaluable in high tier matches.

 

-Hawken's veteran players with high mmr typically use a classes in these lower mmr matches (NOTE: when I say 'typically' I do not mean all vets).

 

Hawken's newbies are faced with these options when encountering these vets (either smurf or actual account):

 

-Adapt and learn (harder to do for most due to time irl, reflexes, or insert issue here).

 

-Quit

 

Clearly, a lot of the people here who sticks to the forums went with the first option and want to make Hawken better overall.  That's what all the suggestions are for, to make Hawken better.  With that said...

 

What would be some good ideas to make Hawken more accessible and enjoyable for the people who can be potential players?

[Lily_from_animove]

Thumbs Up Lily. The only thing we need know is, what can the new devs change to make this game work for a bigger community. I remembered what a friend of mine said. Here worked up until he past 2000 mmr and yet he is only there to loose every time againts better player, so he is somewhere from bottom to middle and nowhere near the top 2 places and lost interesit, because he dies more then he can kills often and he represents already one of the top player.

 

Have a nice weekend,

 

Galaxy Radio

 

your friend is mostlikely doomed to go through a load of painfull losses until his MMR is lowered to a degree where he meets people of his current true skill. But this often sucks in games where such rankings drop quite slowly and you have not played much to "keep in training".

Could be adresses with a system where peoeple that play not so often drop faster in MMR.

 

It is hard to give real advices for the game, since it is not possible for me to define what the game wants to be at all.

I play nearly any kind of games except sports games like soccer and such. Therefore I do not have any issues if the game is not what is advertised, but then it still has to be an entertaining and fun gaming experience to deliver.

 

It's advertised rather much as a slower paced mech game. yet it is mostly an arena shooter with mech skins.

Any of both is not wrong. Yet the games advertise does not cover what the game is. And it needs to decide what it now is and needs to advertise this correctly.

Many people come in, probably expecting a stompy mech game. Want to keep them, make the game so.

Want it to be fast paced arena shooter, then advertise this properly otherwise you make the wrong people test the game which drop it of course. 

But I can not advice what the devs shoudl do, it's up to them, since this is a basic design decision. But given the estimated numbers someone gave in another thread about attracting 10 million players. I think the originl idea was to make some Arena/MOBA like game instead a mech based game.

 

And then in the Op I said its an casual arena shooter, yet dave disagreed and told me its a competitive game, and then later he even told me the ranges where the game gets competitive. And with he analytics of the MMR josh gave us. What is it truly? When 5% only play (according to Daves MMR ranks where its really competitive) in the compettitive ranks, this means 95% do not play a competitive game, except the fact its PvP.

And again, there is no advice to be truly given here. Because what is the game supossed to be? A competitive game? if so, its doing this wrong since only 5% enter this game. So here the elite needs to gather: What is the base to be competitive in the game, this is unlike in CS not only Skill, its mostlikely specific mechs laodouts and tactics. And then at least 40% or 50% of the playerbase needs to be able to enter this gamepla,y otherwise the game will never be a real competitive game. This can be achieved by unlocking and getting the meta stuff faster, or helping people  to understand and softly force to play more tactical.

 

Or the game needs to deliver a proper casual experience, which it seems not to do, I have hardly see soem long term motivational stuff as descriped in the OP. It needs more free content unlocks that are truly cool. What could help is simply allowing the unlocked mech parts to be completely paintable in a basic color choice, as the stripes of the base mechs design. Because they are curently more boring less custimzebable as the default design. But thats onyl one small part on the way, and would also be cool in a competitive game, yet for a competitive game its a goodie, while casual games need this as a base feature to keep people motivated.

And again this is a desigg choice by the devs what the game should be.  It is like the previous tops, again inbetween two states, Would it make both right, the game would be very succesfull, but yet it's not doing any of those states right, which means it does not even keep one of both kinds of palyers. Instead grabs the niche of people that are interrested in that strange mix.

 

And given the main developement is gone, I don't think the game will by ressources available develop in both directions properly.

I adviced  the APB customisation for the mech, because such a simple (even if complex to implement) feature makes a shitton of casuals happy that then would stick with the game simply for having an awesome customised mech. And when then the elite plays their supertopcompetitive game amongst their 5% They can do that aside all those casuals down there in the MMR pit.

 

Another advice for a bit more competitve "soft enforcement" would be proper achievements.

The current achievements are all of the category " I do not give a single F about them" because unless you are one of the players that truly want to complete them for the reaosn of collecting achievements their "rewards" are superlousy and not even worth the time to have a look at. Excluding thethanks for playing oen whcih gives 500MC

 

Anyone remembering the old TF2? There unlockign 3 achievements of a class gave you one of the alternate gun,s and making 6 gave you the other.

But achievements were not simple "play and time will unlock it" since many were rather dedicated to a task often in synergy with classes (like medic + heavy + �brcharge related ones). This basically soflty forces people to use some tactical elements of the game.

Hawken could do something similar, make achievements more rewardable, by unlockign parts, or even guns for the mechs. Maybe some emotes. Not just XP and some HC. When this make speople want to get the ahcievements they will try to play that necessary more tactical playstyle. He will either gather a group, or while switch to the class needed he can build the required synergy.

A very simple example would be: repair X health on a brawler while he gets a kilslterak of 5. And in reverse the brawler gets an achievement when he achieves said kill streak while getting repair by an engineer.

 

People even the lower MMR ones will then try at least to do so and they will also see that these things work as a tactic positively for the gameplay, and so the casuals may stick with tactics aside from the usual pointless running and gunning.

 

The prices ingame are not an issues, they are tbh, quite low. All thrusters for 19,99� LOL because global unlock.

 

This thread is still going?

 

I'm almost curious if I need to dig up my old MWO account and poke around those forums to get some context.

 

Feel free to do so, its not free of issues but its also not at the edge of existence by playernumbers. The last event dragged in 3000 players playing at the same time. Covering at least the fixed costs is where a game has to be, and if its proficient enough, it will also receive developement.

[Kopra]

Which is the "real hawken" the one 5% play, or the one 95% play?

It's the bracket where people watch their radar, half the players are not AFK, where you can't just press W+M1 and expect to win.
If you are ignoring half of the game mechanics, can you say you're playing the real thing? Are you playing real chess when you only know how to move the pawns and ignore all the other pieces?
Part of this is the poor documentation of the game mechanics, the tutorial only gives you the very bare necessities.

[Lily_from_animove]

It's the bracket where people watch their radar, half the players are not AFK, where you can't just press W+M1 and expect to win.
If you are ignoring half of the game mechanics, can you say you're playing the real thing? Are you playing real chess when you only know how to move the pawns and ignore all the other pieces?
Part of this is the poor documentation of the game mechanics, the tutorial only gives you the very bare necessities.

 

thats the question, is the game what people play the game its intended? if not somehow the game did a bad job introducing its base mechanics correctly. Surely you cna say its the players fault, but then when so many fail, this must be more than the players fault.

maybe I played too many games in my life already and I am too sued to using radars by default, since I never actively thought about this. But then it is to figure out if and why people do no use the radar (if that eve is the case)

Edited by Lily_from_animove, 16 May 2015 - 02:20 AM.

[Kopra]

thats the question, is the game what people play the game its intended? if not somehow the game did a bad job introducing its base mechanics correctly. Surely you cna say its the players fault, but then when so many fail, this must be more than the players fault.
maybe I played too many games in my life already and I am too sued to using radars by default, since I never actively thought about this. But then it is to figure out if and why people do no use the radar (if that eve is the case)

To be fair for most people it doesn't sound very fun to focus on a very small part of the screen on the side all the time, but it's the most important tool you can have in the game, often giving more information than the rest of the screen.

F2P and its no strings attached goes both ways, I can't speak much from the newbie's perspective but I can say that the lack of dedication makes them miss out on what the game has to offer. The game's poor attempt at luring the new players is also in need of improvement, starting from the trailers which depict a much different gameplay. The second is the feel of progress, I think there is none. You're just playing and grinding from one mech and its accessories to the next. In the time that you have done so for one mech, it's likely that you have gone through all the gamemodes and think the game has nothing else to offer. Thing is, they should be playing for gameplay and playing around its mechanics, not grinding for the next accessory.

In a perfect world there would be a very extensive tutorial on game mechanics a la Skullgirls: you will try out each game mechanic and even if you can't execute it properly, you know of its existence. There are videos on youtube on these but you'd have to look for them by yourself.

Edited by (KDR) Kopra, 16 May 2015 - 02:58 AM.

[(Unknown)1590d2c747fabd]

Since we are qualifying our opinions by experience and contribution to the community:

 

my MMR = Fuzzy Bunny, I have been playing since 12.12.12, and currently own (and share) a Pioneer Server.

 

All my statements should be considered *broad* brush strokes and applicable to a simple majority of applicable scenarios.

 

<SNIP> it needs to decide what it now is and needs to advertise this correctly. <SNIP>

 

I agree. This is something I have mentioned in multiple other threads as well. I *KNOW* Hawken can be what ever it wants to be (Arena Shooter, FPS, Mech Sim, combination of the three, the next Pokemon, what ever) but we the community need a definition of that "identity" as a guiding principal for making suggestions. For example, my feedback is to buff the crap out of turret mode for C-Class but have it slow the mechs wayyy down to a craw or make them stationary for area defense. (Very Mech Sim.) But others say to speed them up and get rid of turret mode all together to promote a "speed kills" attack mentality. (Very Arena Shooter.) Neither answer is "wrong" at the moment since Hawken is going through a second "puberty" of figuring out what it is. And while this is "ok" and fosters "discussion" it also leads to not being able to come up with cohesive suggestions.

IMHO: Now, while they are picking up the pieces/pouring through the code base/doing stability fixes, is the perfect time for Reloaded to hammer out and define the vision of what Hawken *IS* before the first piece of incremental/forward moving code is written. (Yes yes... opinions are like Fuzzy Bunnies, everyone has them and they all stink.)

 

To be fair for most people it doesn't sound very fun to focus on a very small part of the screen on the side all the time, but it's the most important tool you can have in the game, often giving more information than the rest of the screen. <SNIP>

 

I think this concept of two "tiers" is prevalent across all games, your "recreational" players and your "competition" players. In your example the "rec" players would agree with you that staring at the radar isn't what they come to do. They just want to shoot their "buddies" and make them go BOOM without getting stomped every time they enter a server because that is their definition of "fun". Where your "comp" players want to *win* and keep their MMR up in the 2400 range with truely challenging gameplay because that is their definition of "fun".

 

This represent two very different markets for games and, at some level, both need to be satiated. However, you need that "Rec" player base to exist and expand to support the "comp" crowd. Why you ask? Because, as we have seen from the graph, the "rec" players represent the very broad base of your player pyramid and income.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

 

Could be adresses with a system where peoeple that play not so often drop faster in MMR.

 

 

 

This.  I want to prove it statistically, but this, so much this.

 

We penalize for a bad match by up to 35 MMR.  I think it needs to be about 7 max.

[LaurenEmily]

This.  I want to prove it statistically, but this, so much this.

 

We penalize for a bad match by up to 35 MMR.  I think it needs to be about 7 max.

 This is so true. It's too unforgiving.

[Nightfirebolt]

 

Or the game needs to deliver a proper casual experience, which it seems not to do, I have hardly see soem long term motivational stuff as descriped in the OP.

 

Why are you still here?

[Hijinks_The_Turtle]

Why are you still here?

Why are you hating?  Look man, she's here because just like everyone else here, people want to make this game better and more successful.  Can you please get on topic?

 

thats the question, is the game what people play the game its intended? if not somehow the game did a bad job introducing its base mechanics correctly. Surely you cna say its the players fault, but then when so many fail, this must be more than the players fault.

maybe I played too many games in my life already and I am too sued to using radars by default, since I never actively thought about this. But then it is to figure out if and why people do no use the radar (if that eve is the case)

Yeah, the game doesn't really represent well on how the game play actually goes about.  It's a fast mech game, not some slow sim.

 

Personally, I'd say making the game trailers that represent the gameplay and add more lore for immersion since right now there isn't any of the sort in-game.

Edited by Hijinks_The_Turtle, 16 May 2015 - 07:26 PM.

[Silverfire]

The tutorial needs to be redone, period. It does a crappy job at explaining in depth mechanics that will help develop players into better players and subsequently into high MMR tiers. The tutorial only teaches the basics (moving and shooting which are FPS fundamentals and hardly any useful applications of Hawken's quirks like 180 spin. Only teaches a basic dodge) Newer players just flat out don't know what true movement mastery is so thus the game should provide the tools and instruction necessary to get their foot in the door.

Or even leave the current tutorial and have a separate "advanced tutorial" type thing that would teach more advanced stuff.

Edited by Silverfire, 16 May 2015 - 07:37 PM.

[WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW]

Or, alternatively, a working spectator mode and a spotlight on community matches to give gameplay trailers that come from actual players, support for community streamers, that help show what the actual gameplay will involve. I re-watched the current gameplay trailer available on the Steam page. It is very irrepresentative of what Hawken is about in every subject except aesthetic.