137 replies to this topic

[HHJFTRU]

Finally I found a place to let my frustration out. (Mommy doesn't care )

Boo for lvl 5 rank1 ????????? 's topping the scoreboard! (I see them everyday).

I probably need to get a Russian keyboard in order to communicate with them.

[Hijinks_The_Turtle]

*snip*

Thank you for saying this!  As I said before, high mmr players probably feel a little frustrated and bored when they get sucked into a game with low mmr players.  While those low mmr players get destroyed over and over.  That PLUS the fact that the playerbase is small creates this vicious cycle.  Both sides are losing players.

 

How do we fix these problems?  The fact that CapnJosh said that lower leveled players lose far more than they win on average poses a problem. (I can't find the specific forum post :C)  How do we make this game and losing more engaging, enjoyable, and of a valuable experience?  Hawken isn't an easy game to learn; most player's mmrs are in the lower range.  But.... once we have that solution, the other part of the problem will be solved as well: the shrinking playerbase so both vets and newbies alike can enjoy the game.  

Edited by h????????????????????????????????i??, 24 June 2015 - 05:52 AM.

[GalaxyRadio]

This is just too funny. Hawken already has such a tame community. You're playing a FPS-PVP game, where the goal is to kill others and win. You want to restrict those that perform better at this than you from playing, because they're too good? You actually want them to "slow down" and "play down to your level" for what... to even the playing field for you? This reeks of such a defeatist attitude. I mean instead of trying to improve so that you can play up to their level, you instead want the opposite - your goal is to kill the competitive spirit in general? When did gamers start adopting such a care-bear sentimentality; I mean why are you even playing a PVP game then? If being killed by players better than you makes a game not fun for you, by all means find a PVE or singleplayer game you can have fun at. Go play PVE against the Hawken bots, but beware because they do taunt so you may get your feelings hurt there too.

Trying to overcome the challenge of facing off against more skilled players gets my adrenaline pumping, motivates me to focus, to improve upon my mistakes, and constantly strive to do better than them. Expecting someone to "slow down and play down to my level" seems not only self-deprecading but also silly to me. I'm amazed that you wouldn't find that insulting even. But if people don't like such challenges, there's no reason to continue playing such online PVP games. Because the truth is there will always be someone better than you in these games. If that concept proves too frustrating to handle, there are plenty of good singleplayer games out there, go have fun.

 

Congratulations, you got it all wrong and just turned the tables how its not....

 

All the trouble comes down to 1 points, player population is too small to deliver a good gaming experience for e veryone. What we have today in hawken is that high skillend players enjoy to stomp new or less skilled pilots while they can't join servers with their own, because his kind is too less.

 

This ond only this points drives us to the fact, that less skilled or new pilots (without enough experience to drive the starting assault they have, or even a new mech without any items&internals, because they don't have enough HC to get the stuff they need and get stomped right away by players with not alone more skill, even with full equipped known items&internals to play those at full capacity.

 

What you say is 100% right, but extremely wrong on this thread, because we are not talking about you you wrote down here. What you are talking about can be a great factor, if the player population is big enough and only then this can be happening, but its not.

 

Personaly i don't want too lose new players right away, so iam holding back, make less kills, show  up more so they can shoot at me while iam toying aroudn with them "movement" and do as if I'd fight for real, but not so they can learn about when too shoot the tow, how to lead the tow, when to move out of the cover or not boosting after someone who is just walking/dosging backwards while shooting when the enmy cames around the corner and get wrecked while hunting the prey that becomes to the hunter now etc. ect etc.

 

I do this only because we don't have enough players and because i like to help others, because in the real worlld iam a helpful nice person. I can total understand people who just want to play for maybe 1 hour and if there is no other server they stom even new players if they have to or make new smurfs to stomp even more because they have fun with it.

 

But personal i dislike this bevahior. Its like iam running down the wood just to tramp on ants because iam bigger. We have many threads now and they are all about the same factor, low player population, nothing else, this drives us all to the same problem, whereever they occure.

 

Kind Regards,

 

Galaxy Radio

[Dawn_of_Ash]

I think that a good way to increase player population and help new players out more is to give players 100% EXP and HC when playing in Bot Destruction until they get to level 30 - because that level thing has little meaning in the current game and promoting Bot Destruction would decrease the amount of pub stomping and complaints due to it.

 

With my little suggestion aside, as far as my pathetic opinion goes, I agree with DM30 when it comes to people calling veterans "newbie killers" or whatever they call it. You can't stop people from playing a game. But I do want to emphasise this - veteran players should not be smirking and smiling and bragging about them beating some new players or be silent or rage. If a veteran player enters a low-MMR server and destroys the entire server, unbalancing games and so on, I would expect especially from this community for that said veteran player to be nice and/or helpful. The fact that the game is dying right now should further influence this.

 

I remember a time, not even a year ago, when the Hawken community was reduced to a small dedicated population playing a dying game with a dwindling population who valued every single new player who joined the game. I was lucky enough to be a part of this community and I can say that I was a much nicer person back then than what I am now, and a valued new players a great deal more. This has changed for me at least, and I'm going to try and value newer players again, but it should not have changed for anyone else. Whilst the game has been given a second chance, it's not only Josh's and Tigg's job to keep the game running, but also the community's, because a game can only go so far with a poor community.

Edited by Dawn_of_Ash, 24 June 2015 - 06:02 AM.

[comic_sans]

 

snip

 

I agree with you completely.  I think the thing is that a disappointing and enormous proportion of gamerz (I can't say that word correctly and not infinitely facepalm until I remove it) have that lameballs attitude, and all of them have wallets or the conditional approval to use their parents' credit cards.

Edited by cosmic_spand, 24 June 2015 - 11:55 AM.

[thirtysix]

What a useless, pity-whoring post.

and your a fuzzy bunnyn' troll, always have been and always will be... piss off jerk

[coldform]

EEEEEEE - oof - EEEEEEEEE

(hit a bump there)

[Agent_Orange_]

As i new old player(i played a little when it first came out then stopped). I have come back and have about 14 hours play and slightly better mechs than people at my stage. It is extremely frustrating to play against smurfs or high mmr players, sure there might be some players looking to join the top elite who have just started and enjoy that, but i am on old fart(40+) working on reflexes that, while honed from 30 years of play, are getting worse.

 

Spotting a smurf or a really good player in the server isn't hard  and i just change server, only time things are ok is prime time. I am not going to learn from some uber player dodging like crazy in his scout while wrecking me. I know at best i will be a middling player, but if it is going to be a constant fight against smurf and op players i will just stop playing because it isn't fun.

[HHJFTRU]

As i new old player(i played a little when it first came out then stopped). I have come back and have about 14 hours play and slightly better mechs than people at my stage. It is extremely frustrating to play against smurfs or high mmr players, sure there might be some players looking to join the top elite who have just started and enjoy that, but i am on old fart(40+) working on reflexes that, while honed from 30 years of play, are getting worse.

 

Spotting a smurf or a really good player in the server isn't hard  and i just change server, only time things are ok is prime time. I am not going to learn from some uber player dodging like crazy in his scout while wrecking me. I know at best i will be a middling player, but if it is going to be a constant fight against smurf and op players i will just stop playing because it isn't fun.

Please stay.

[claisolais]

�With great power comes great responsibility'

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

--I just join this discussion, mean to end it.  I may not very new,

   but to your people and this discussion, individual or not or whatever, this is one of the 'opinions from people' :

   --Have fun is important, but dont overdo it, k? Its bad.

      and, I learn from fighting with the average or a bit higher mmr players,  NOT the TOPs.

 

...................Okay I did learned something from fightinng damn good players, I admit it, but I dont like it, I am suppose to have fun playing the game, neither slughtering noobs, nor being slughtered like a noob.

Edited by claisolais, 26 June 2015 - 05:54 PM.

[manthi]

As i new old player(i played a little when it first came out then stopped). I have come back and have about 14 hours play and slightly better mechs than people at my stage. It is extremely frustrating to play against smurfs or high mmr players, sure there might be some players looking to join the top elite who have just started and enjoy that, but i am on old fart(40+) working on reflexes that, while honed from 30 years of play, are getting worse.

 

Spotting a smurf or a really good player in the server isn't hard  and i just change server, only time things are ok is prime time. I am not going to learn from some uber player dodging like crazy in his scout while wrecking me. I know at best i will be a middling player, but if it is going to be a constant fight against smurf and op players i will just stop playing because it isn't fun.

may i asked you why you stopped playing originally?

if you want to avoid meeting high mmr players try what i explained in post #7 

i am using it and it works nicely most of the time, of course it won't work for smurfs, but at least you get rid of one of the annoyance, and you are still able to find servers in your mmr range

[Agent_Orange_]

may i asked you why you stopped playing originally?

if you want to avoid meeting high mmr players try what i explained in post #7 

i am using it and it works nicely most of the time, of course it won't work for smurfs, but at least you get rid of one of the annoyance, and you are still able to find servers in your mmr range

I stopped playing because of RL stuff. And i like most new players have no idea about mmr and just click auto join. Unlike most new players i come and read the forums as they give a good idea of what is going on in the game.

[Pumapaw]

High level players throw the game.  Tighten up the servers to 100 mmr increments. We must encourage new players to learn slowly this constant feeding on them is killing the game. No servers for a 2700 mmr go play something else. I'm sure you have more then Hawken on your puter.

 

We will never develop more high level if you all keep making them quit. This I want to play excuse is a lame one. If we as a community do not make the player base grow game is DEAD. New players spend money, Old players already spent it.

[Kopra]

When matchmaking didn't exist, you would select a server from the server browser. We still have the server browser, but there's a big difference to what used to be the norm.

 

When server browsers were all you had, and often were user-controlled, you would've been able to differentiate between "noob" servers and "pro" servers so you'd know which servers to avoid if you didn't want to get stomped. Most of the even higher games you couldn't just hop in, even if you wanted to, as they were organized through IRC and then played out in password protected servers. Of course there were people that went into the more casual servers and wrecked everyone (which might or might have not resulted in a votekick, a badge of pride for some) but they weren't that usual of an occurence (or I just remember through rose tinted glasses).

[IareDave]

High level players throw the game. Tighten up the servers to 100 mmr increments. We must encourage new players to learn slowly this constant feeding on them is killing the game. No servers for a 2700 mmr go play something else. I'm sure you have more then Hawken on your puter.

We will never develop more high level if you all keep making them quit. This I want to play excuse is a lame one. If we as a community do not make the player base grow game is DEAD. New players spend money, Old players already spent it.

You know what else throws the game balance? When people such as yourself leave immediately whenever the match isn't sided in your favor (which admittedly happens a lot, apparently).

Accept the fact that good players play and enjoy Hawken and will continue to do so. The act of higher tier joining sub 1900-1800 rooms is a population issue and the fault doesn't lie in the veterans.

[ThirdEyE]

This I want to play excuse is a lame one.

I don't even care if you're trolling or not, this is the funniest thing I've read on the forums in a long time

[comic_sans]

I'm sure you have more then Hawken on your puter.

 

This I want to play excuse is a lame one.

 

I don't get it.  Is the logical next step after getting good at this game quitting it for something else?  Are we ineligible to play the game we spent time getting good at?

 

You are a strange man.  Hell, if you stopped apathyquitting quite so much, you might become good enough to be affected by the problem!

Edited by cosmic_spand, 27 June 2015 - 08:30 PM.

[Pumapaw]

You know what else throws the game balance? When people such as yourself leave immediately whenever the match isn't sided in your favor (which admittedly happens a lot, apparently).

Accept the fact that good players play and enjoy Hawken and will continue to do so. The act of higher tier joining sub 1900-1800 rooms is a population issue and the fault doesn't lie in the veterans.

Nice flame! Want to know something your a turd in my toilet.

[crockrocket]

Nice flame! Want to know something your a turd in my toilet.

*you're. Also that should be two separate sentences

 

Nice necro though

[JackVandal]

If im right the server checks its mmr by the average, i wonder if having the server consider the mean in addition to the average would improve it, i was in a room with a spread of 1400 to 2250, with an average deviation of 176, that seems a bit extreme to me, and i wonder if shifting how the server sees its mmr for matchmaking would help. 

 

A server of 1400 and 2500 players would have a middleweight mmr average, but probably be a bad match for all, and i wonder if the mean would help the server understand more and do better with matchmaking.

[MomOw]

Population is too low. IareDave is true.

 

The worst thing is that the MMR system expects good players to roflstomp in a lower level server.

 

Yesterday it was "Priority Target" in EU, I didn't signed because I wasn't sure to be able to play. All players of my level (and above) were playing or were offline. I didn't wanted to play CoopTDM as lower skilled players keep entering my server, lowering the AI level, and turning a fun game into a one side bot pwnage.

So I ended up in a ~1600 server. I played there a few matches scoring 3 times more than the second player of my team. That wasn't fun.

 

Today sort of the same thing happened when I joined a ~1900 server. There wasn't much teamplay, but the matches were more balanced (though not really fun).  I lost ~20points of MMR because I didn't lead my team to victory each game, being "only" the MVP of my team.

 

So not only you don't find appropriate server, but you have to outscore everybody, and, in addition you have bring the victory to your team mostly by yourself... Phew !

Edited by MomOw, 26 July 2015 - 11:32 AM.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

i wonder if having the server consider the mean in addition to the average would improve it

 

Wat?

[JackVandal]

Wat?

in math the mean is the most common number, like, if we have 4 guys at 1200, and 1 at 1800 and 1 at 2900, the average mmr of that server would be 1500, so thats where the game considers that server for matchmaking, but the mean, or most common number is 1200, 

 

i wonder if that would help the matchmaker in any way, if it considered the mean.

[Hyginos]

in math the mean is the most common number, like, if we have 4 guys at 1200, and 1 at 1800 and 1 at 2900, the average mmr of that server would be 1500, so thats where the game considers that server for matchmaking, but the mean, or most common number is 1200, 

 

i wonder if that would help the matchmaker in any way, if it considered the mean.

 

You're thinking of the "mode". The mean is the average.

 

Now lets see if I can keep Luna from beating you bloody with one of his degrees  . 

Edited by Hyginos, 29 July 2015 - 10:58 AM.

[Dew]

and your a fuzzy bunnyn' troll, always have been and always will be... piss off jerk

 

Don't get your panties in a knot just because I'm a realist and don't care whose feelings I step on.

 

Doesn't stop me from being right.

[HepTagoN]

The act of higher tier joining sub 1900-1800 rooms is a population issue and the fault doesn't lie in the veterans.

 

When ~2200 mmr stays in such server, it is his fault. Do tell me, u enjoy playing in such servers, hm?

[CraftyDus]

Do tell me, u enjoy playing in such servers, hm?

 

I'm sorry, I can't help but see this when i read that

 

[Dew]

When ~2200 mmr stays in such server, it is his fault. Do tell me, u enjoy playing in such servers, hm?

 

Do you have any idea how often 1900 MMR rooms are the highest-MMR rooms in the server browser?

 

At that point there is literally no other server a high-MMR player could quickmatch into. Even if they leave, the server browser isn't going to let them join any games and quickmatch is going to put them right back into the same server.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

Dew-ce is correct.

[StubbornPuppet]

Do you have any idea how often 1900 MMR rooms are the highest-MMR rooms in the server browser?

 

At that point there is literally no other server a high-MMR player could quickmatch into. Even if they leave, the server browser isn't going to let them join any games and quickmatch is going to put them right back into the same server.

 

And by a 1900 MMR room, you mean where the average in the match is 1900, right?

[Amidatelion]

And by a 1900 MMR room, you mean where the average in the match is 1900, right?

 

...yes. Yes, that is exactly what that means, good job.

[devotion]

i think despite whatever opinions we individually hold, we can all at least retain some civility and agree that pumapaw leaves a lot of games

[driedjello]

You know what else throws the game balance? When people such as yourself leave immediately whenever the match isn't sided in your favor (which admittedly happens a lot, apparently).

Accept the fact that good players play and enjoy Hawken and will continue to do so. The act of higher tier joining sub 1900-1800 rooms is a population issue and the fault doesn't lie in the veterans.

So when this happens, why can't they sit off to the side for a spell to let the game even out?  I have seen a few do this but mostly I see what happened in this video.  It does create a toxic environment for new players and some of that blame rests on the shoulders of unsportsman like conduct of the top tier given the state of the low player base.

 

I remember several months ago I was playing on a 2000 MMR server (my range) and my team was smashing the crap out of the other team, we were up by 20 kills.  I was sitting off to the side.  DEW joined the other team and I knew fuzzy bunny was about to get "real" so I jumped back in.  DEW really let me have it in the chat.  It's funny to see all the excuses 2700 MMR players make for "reck"ing low level players.

[Hyginos]

 It's funny to see all the excuses 2700 MMR players make for "reck"ing low level players.

 

No excuse is necessary. If you're in a 2k+ server it is probably one of the, if not the, highest rated server available. As such you should expect there to be a few top level players there, and you should not expect mercy. Regardless of the morality of the situation this is the reality.

[StubbornPuppet]

^But, as we've all generally acknowledged, there is no way to tell or control the level in a match.  It always ends up escalating into a higher ranked server as the match progresses and gradually higher and higher mmr players are able to join.

[Amidatelion]

^But, as we've all generally acknowledged, there is no way to tell or control the level in a match.  It always ends up escalating into a higher ranked server as the match progresses and gradually higher and higher mmr players are able to join.

 

 

Yeah. Which becomes the only high-ranked game around, while low-ranked games outnumber it 20-1.

[devotion]

if it escalates into a higher mmr server, then matchmaking has effectively accomplished it's purpose of isolating the "game ruiners" into a single server. other players are free to join other lobbies at-will.

[Sp3ctrr]

+1 for Omni/Cluster or whoever. 

 

Pwning noobs. They should be glad that they can learn.

 

Fake just fuzzy bunnyng leave already.

[ATX22]

Do you have any idea how often 1900 MMR rooms are the highest-MMR rooms in the server browser?

 

At that point there is literally no other server a high-MMR player could quickmatch into. Even if they leave, the server browser isn't going to let them join any games and quickmatch is going to put them right back into the same server.

 

That sucks, it really does.. can't say that I feel your pain as my MMR is quite low, but the current MM system is broken for both high and low MMR players.  Just a quick look at the server browser as I post this, the top 3 MMR servers, the spread is fine, 3rd one down is rated at 1950 MMR and has a spread of 1450 to 2500.  The 4th server, 1700 - 2250, 5th 1600 - 2150 and so on.  And these latter servers are averaging an MMR of around 1800.

 

Heck, I think the MM has even shoved me into a server with you in it and MMR-wise, I'm roughly 1,000 MMR points below you.  I'm not an elite Hawken gamer, and I don't have any aspirations of ever reaching that level.  Don't care, don't want.  I'm just here to hop on a server, have some fun, hoping for a close game or two, and then get back to RL.  Getting ground into paste while my team gripes over team-chat about everyone "sucking at hawken on this team" or being a bunch of noobz while a high MMR player or few are carrying the other team isn't exactly what I consider fun.  

 

Not sure what can be done about it, if you favor the new players, the Hawken elite can't play, favor the elite players and you end up cannibalizing what's left of the Hawken player-base, leave things as they are, risk a slow death of the game.  But, it's Reloaded's job to figure this one out; best of luck to them, this isn't going to be an easy fix.

[Pumapaw]

i think despite whatever opinions we individually hold, we can all at least retain some civility and agree that pumapaw leaves a lot of games

Puma paw doesn't give a fuzzy bunny about your opinion.  In the end I own a house support a family and do not need public assistance and live in my mothers basement.

So life sucks. But I will not stay in a game where the teams are so unbalanced by 2700 plus mmr players in team speak. So live with it I do. Actually I spend more time in other games with far better individuals then you will ever be. Because all I found here was team bully. So devotion life will only treat you as you tend to bully others. I suppose a video game is your life. Grow up and try the real thing you might make something out of your life. Because a game will not support you or provide for your needs.