150 replies to this topic

[KilleR_OrigiNs]

Redacted. 

Edited by KilleR_OrigiNs, 30 April 2015 - 09:48 PM.

[spo0n]

Only problem is if you go against a Scout with a G2 Assault. I don't know how people do that with two damage-over-time weapons.

 

Step one: Get in scouts face.

TOWs will now self damage the scout.

Stay in that face.

Latch on like an alien baby.

Step two: ????

Step three: PROFIT!

 

G2A can be good but you need to be on top of your opponent and stay there.

[vonbach]

Why is the Scout so hated? Simple its OP no matter what all the elitists say.

Its insanely fast and has ludicrous amounts of firepower. They are the go to

pubstomp mech and  if one shows up on the server and knows how to dodge

you might as well leave. And people will.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

Vonbach, play a thought experiment with me...

 

So, we create lower-level servers.  Scouts are banned, as are all A-classes except Reaper.  At MMR1900 we allow you to graduate to higher-level servers, to where 2400-level players can mingle in your servers (a 1-star for a 1900 player is 2150, a 2400 player can just join this server).

 

Say they use a Scout (or a Brawler) and make it move in ways you didn't think was possible.

HOW exactly have we done you a favor?

[DigitAll_Ninja]

Fuel tank on the face makes me thing of a fly. Moves on the battlefield fast like a fly. Annoying to hit with +200 ping like a fly.  I hate flies (I don't know if this is the correct form of the plural). I hate scout hence.

[vonbach]

Sorry the scout is just too fast and does too much damage. In the hands of anyone that knows how to dodge the

Scout is virtually un-hittable. You can see them dominating entire servers. This needs to stop.

[Silverfire]

Get into some higher tier servers and the scout's advantage of speed disappears when it runs into players who can actually aim.

DISCLAIMER: I don't play Scout at all. I have a total of like 20 minutes on the mech. I don't have too much difficulty with dealing with it.

Edited by Silverfire, 31 March 2015 - 08:06 AM.

[vonbach]

Heres where the elitist routine starts. 

 

Step one: Get in scouts face.

TOWs will now self damage the scout.

Stay in that face.

Latch on like an alien baby.

The problem is getting there. And he does way too much damage at that range.

Thats also the range scouts kill you.

[dorobo]

[Silverfire]

Heres where the elitist routine starts.

The problem is getting there. And he does way too much damage at that range.
Thats also the range scouts kill you.

That's also the range where scouts do a lot of self damage. If you know how to deal with scouts it's a nonissue. New players have trouble with it because they don't know how to approach scouts. It's one of the easiest pubstomping mechs because players don't know how to deal with speed. Learn how to move right, learn how to aim better, learn when and where to fight a Scout, the fight gets that much easier. I hate to sound "elitist" because I don't consider myself high tier at all (I'm decidedly not high tier), but investing time into learning how to combat the Scout is a much more worthwhile investment of time than nerfing it. Don't lower a skill ceiling because people can't deal with it. Scouts, believe it or not, are rarely seen in high level matches because they *gasp* weak up there. They melt and vaporize under good aim and pressure.

Edited by Silverfire, 31 March 2015 - 10:51 AM.

[vonbach]

Yeah this is L2P noob routine. The issue is the same issue that has been going on since alpha.

He is incredibly fast and does insane damage for his size. Nerf his damage and balance is achieved.

[Silverfire]

Yeah this is L2P noob routine. The issue is the same issue that has been going on since alpha.
He is incredibly fast and does insane damage for his size. Nerf his damage and balance is achieved.

Pray tell how would nerf the Flak? Or HEAT? Or Miniflak? Without affecting the other mechs that have those weapons equipped?

Note the Scout is also incredibly flimsy. It's made of paper. Hit it once or twice (which is 100% within the realm of possibility) and it's gone. Use your dodge to constantly reposition yourself so you can always have a line of sight. The strategies go on and on, but the problem is that players don't know these strategies or where to learn them. Give players an in game venue to learn these skills and the need for the Nerf goes away.

[vonbach]

Pray tell how would nerf the Flak? Or HEAT? Or Miniflak? Without affecting the other mechs that have those weapons equipped?

Give the scouts (and other A-classes their own versions of the weapons or actually make the health difference greater. Simple. 

[Silverfire]

Give the scouts (and other A-classes their own versions of the weapons or actually make the health difference greater. Simple.

I would literally never pick up an A class ever again. They'd be made of paper and do even less damage, would be really weak. They'd have even less competitive viability. It's bad enough with this C class meta where more health is king.

Edited by Silverfire, 31 March 2015 - 11:12 AM.

[vonbach]

Yes that what happens when you have the zippy little destroyer mechs zooming around. 

You have players gathering together in big boring herds of C-classes that scouts cant safely 

approach.  More or less as I predicted.

[Silverfire]

Yes that what happens when you have the zippy little destroyer mechs zooming around.
You have players gathering together in big boring herds of C-classes that scouts cant safely
approach. More or less as I predicted.

The C class meta exists regardless if there is a Scout in a match or not. This "grouping up" you speak of doesn't only happen with C classes, or when there is a Scout loose. It happens often for a good reason - teamwork wins the day, every time. So you would criticize one of the most effective ways of winning regardless of situation - teaming up with others? The game is supposed to be played with a team. The game isn't your typical lone wolf run and gun type game. Teamwork counts as a "boring herd?" If you play Hawken flying solo all the time, I wouldn't blame you for not succeeding at the game.

So when you say it happens when you have A classes zipping around, I say it happens when any mech is zipping around.

[(P:B)Augmentia]

The C class meta exists regardless if there is a Scout in a match or not. This "grouping up" you speak of doesn't only happen with C classes, or when there is a Scout loose. It happens often for a good reason - teamwork wins the day, every time. So you would criticize one of the most effective ways of winning regardless of situation - teaming up with others? The game is supposed to be played with a team. The game isn't your typical lone wolf run and gun type game. Teamwork counts as a "boring herd?" If you play Hawken flying solo all the time, I wouldn't blame you for not succeeding at the game.

So when you say it happens when you have A classes zipping around, I say it happens when any mech is zipping around.

 

This...has so much truth to it. Heed Silverfire's words, for he knows what he is talking about. Teamwork is key.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

Yeah this is L2P noob routine. The issue is the same issue that has been going on since alpha.

He is incredibly fast and does insane damage for his size. Nerf his damage and balance is achieved.

 

I believe you're wrong.

 

I have no problem killing Scouts, when I am in any mech.

 

I have no problem killing herds of C-classes. 

 

I have a problem killing teammates who support each other.  Regardless of the mech.

 

Just for you, VonBach, I'll go rip up a few 1900 lobbies with the brand new Assault.  SInce EVERYONE will have the LOADEDASSAULT, it can't be OP. 

[comic_sans]

I won't say it's an L2P thing, but it's an L2P thing.  As you understand the game more, more combat options will become obvious to you, and hopefully you'll consider everyone else's options.  The best thing to do with a scout, if you're not confident in either your ability to engage one or in the situation, is to get its attention and lead it into your big, murderous team.  Either he runs away or he gets creamed by focused fire; it's either no loss or a gain.  You don't have to directly engage someone, and if you find yourself in a situation where you do, consider what got you to that point in the match and if it was the right thing to do, then modify your behavior for the next time.

 

Basically there will always be situations where you're almost guaranteed to be outplayed by a certain class because the one you picked is not great directly against it; I wouldn't charge a revved-up incin or a brawler in a scout, and I wouldn't chase a scout in either of those.  Use your team to your advantage; I also find it helpful just to land a tow or other heavy weapon shot on an A class because then hopefully your whole team sees someone with pitiful health and wants the kill.

 

Also, try playing it; this is the best way to learn how to counter something.  I'm not saying 'try it, you'll like it' because some people just don't, but you will become aware of your options and in the process become aware of the options every other player has in the same mech.  See what kills you and try that on other scouts.

 

This is all from a guy who loves his scout, though, so take this with an entire shaker of salt.

Edited by comic_sans, 31 March 2015 - 03:29 PM.

[_incitatus]

Yeah this is L2P noob routine. The issue is the same issue that has been going on since alpha.
He is incredibly fast and does insane damage for his size. Nerf his damage and balance is achieved.

Nerf it's damage and it becomes worthless.

[EchoJester]

Since i just upgraded to heat scout now i understand why scouts are hated and own the field when experienced enuf.

Ive been taking down heavys at full armor while i have half XD epic .

If you can dodge a scout you can dodge a ball:)

Edited by EchoJester, 02 April 2015 - 11:07 AM.

[zupsero]

Yeah this is L2P noob routine. The issue is the same issue that has been going on since alpha.

He is incredibly fast and does insane damage for his size. Nerf his damage and balance is achieved.

thats just no argument to me. Like, "[insert heavy here] has way too much armor and damage. Thats unfair to me, how am i supposed to do 500 dmg"

srsly tho. pls dont nerf the scout by no means neccessary.. and by the way i have way more trouble hitting berserkers and they have the same amount of dmg if not more (F)

 

[IareDave]

After playing in some EU servers earlier today I think I realize why the scout is hated by some. I had about 140 ping (wireless connection) constant and occasionally a few spikes, and I noticed the speed of the scout was noticeably quicker than it was on the US servers where I get 40-60 ping. It wasn't tough to deal with at range, but up close I can see why many players who are new to the game and have poor ping might find the scout a little 'too' much. 

[LaurenEmily]

After playing in some EU servers earlier today I think I realize why the scout is hated by some. I had about 140 ping (wireless connection) constant and occasionally a few spikes, and I noticed the speed of the scout was noticeably quicker than it was on the US servers where I get 40-60 ping. It wasn't tough to deal with at range, but up close I can see why many players who are new to the game and have poor ping might find the scout a little 'too' much. 

So would you say having high ping actually has more benefits than downsides ? that's what i got from that, sorry if it's totally off.

I myself can't deal with it at all, it could be a placebo effect or something but seeing my ping higher than 80 i know i'm going to do bad..

[CrimsonKaim]

I myself don't hate Scout, I only hate its Flak cannon.

 

Most people hate Scout because it is so fast and hard to hit. And ofcourse its rediculous high DPS combined with burst while not beeing forced to walk instead of boosting around you.

[IareDave]

So would you say having high ping actually has more benefits than downsides ? that's what i got from that, sorry if it's totally off.

I myself can't deal with it at all, it could be a placebo effect or something but seeing my ping higher than 80 i know i'm going to do bad..

Misworded that, I meant the opposing scout players appeared much faster. I ran assault 

[Pumapaw]

I don't hate scouts, I hate the entire A class line up. Light mechs as any light armored unit was never intended to take out entire armor groups.  They are a hit and run unit but I see more and more all A class teams wiping out opposing teams with there unlimited speed. That to me is a problem.

 

P.S. I know how to kill A class. But this is what I see in the real game.

Edited by Pumapaw, 02 April 2015 - 02:33 PM.

[Sylhiri]

...but I see more and more all A class teams wiping out opposing teams with there unlimited speed. That to me is a problem.

 

P.S. I know how to kill A class. But this is what I see in the real game.

 

You may know how to kill A classes but appearently your team doesn't.

[CrimsonKaim]

You may know how to kill A classes but appearently your team doesn't.

 

In fact ...

 

 

[vonbach]

 

 

I don't hate scouts, I hate the entire A class line up. Light mechs as any light armored unit was never intended to take out entire armor groups.  They are a hit and run unit but I see more and more all A class teams wiping out opposing teams with there unlimited speed. That to me is a problem.

 

P.S. I know how to kill A class. But this is what I see in the real game.

This. This is the issue in a nutshell.

 Most people hate Scout because it is so fast and hard to hit. And ofcourse its rediculous high DPS combined with burst while not beeing forced to walk instead of boosting around you.

 

 

I used to kill c classes doing this with my tech doing this. Just zoom up to their ankles and run around in circles while shooting. Your too fast for most pilots to hit.

Edited by vonbach, 02 April 2015 - 04:56 PM.

[Odinous]

at some point i thought scout was OP too,then i started playing a pred,and they became my meal,then i started playing one(from the point when i hated them i told myself that scout will be the last mech i would ever own,and that came months ago,when i bought the last mech..the scout,,man i changed entirely my tactics and my opinion about em..),its fast,very very fast for new players to react(while they dont even know how to use dodge)but weak as hell too,1 perfectly aimed tow in his face and u got the upper hand.A good player in scout though can be devastating..I'm not one,but i try to learn it,but whenever i see one,in enemy team,i either get in something faster than my current mech(some times zerker is my choice) or i get my pred to hunt,cause an alphaed panicked scout is fun to watch :D

Edited by Odinous, 02 April 2015 - 04:56 PM.

[Sylhiri]

 

I used to kill c classes doing this with my tech doing this. Just zoom up to their ankles and run around in circles while shooting. Your too fast for most pilots to hit.

 

There are weekly events with skilled players, come and try doing that at one of those events.

[vonbach]

but whenever i see one,in enemy team,i either get in something faster than my current mech(some times zerker is my choice) or i get my pred to hunt,cause an alphaed panicked scout is fun to watch :D

In other words you have to either go A class or you sneak up to them in an invisible mech and alpha strike them. 

This kind of proves my whole point.

[Silverfire]

I regularly murder Scouts and other assorted A classes in my B and C classes, what are you talking about vonbach? Those C classes you kill with a tech are really quite lame ducks, they don't know how to play right.

You should come out to the weekly War Wednesday event at 9 PM EST and go toe to toe with many high skill players. Perhaps you might understand then and perhaps learn and improve your skills.

Edited by Silverfire, 02 April 2015 - 08:24 PM.

[LaurenEmily]

Most of these comments should be taken with a grain of salt, a lot of ignorance & personal preferences influence these opinions..

(i'm not saying i'm an exception to this, but i dare to say that seeing a full health heavy mech should be an instant turn-off for any light)

[Nept]

Sorry the scout is just too fast and does too much damage. In the hands of anyone that knows how to dodge the

Scout is virtually un-hittable. You can see them dominating entire servers. This needs to stop.

 

The scout's only "un-hittable" if the opposing player has poor aim.  That simple.  What "needs to stop" are the posts from players wanting to drag the game down to their skill level.

Edited by Nept, 02 April 2015 - 08:44 PM.

[DieselCat]

The scout's only "un-hittable" if the opposing player has poor aim.  That simple.  What "needs to stop" are the posts from players wanting to drag the game down to their skill level.

 

That was a pretty ignorant remark.

 

*+ 

[Nept]

I think it's spot on.  You can call it blunt if you like, but you're showing your own ignorance if you can't see that that's been the objective behind most of these nerf this/nerf that posts.

Edited by Nept, 02 April 2015 - 09:03 PM.

[Rei]

Yeah a lot of it is learn 2 aim. When you nerf it down to those levels, then it makes it even less viable at top level play. If anything, I encourage more people to play scout earlier so people can learn how to aim against them sooner :)

[DieselCat]

Are you for real ?.....You're saying the objective of these of these posts, that you don't agree with, are to drag the game down to a player's skill level lower than your's ?

 

I just have to shake my head, that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.