54 replies to this topic

[Ashfire908]

Important: This project is a community project and if started will be completed in my free time. It is NOT as an official project as a developer. No ETAs are promised nor guaranteed. All details subject to change. Not responsible for loss of limb or life.

I've seen over the past few days that a hot topic has been the issue of smurfing, and the defense that it's mainly done because otherwise people cannot get into matches. I'm not personally sure of the course to take in solving the "having matches to play" vs "keeping people from getting stomped" to fix it in the long-term, but I wanted to run an old idea I had by people that may be able to at least mitigate the issue in the short term.

What I propose is an extension in scrimbot to allow it to perform the function that it was always supposed to do: Automate non-pub matches. Specifically, I propose that an automatic, opt-in, vote-driven, party-based PUG (Pick-Up Game) system be setup to help players in the higher tiers (but without explicit min/max limits).
 
Here's how it will work:

• Players wanting to opt into the system will do so through scrimbot
• Scrimbot will monitor the number of online, opted-in players and detect when there are enough to start a game
• Scrimbot will create it's own party and will send out invites to the players it chooses for the match.
• Players interested in this game will join the party. Those not intrested can skip on it or wait to be automatically excluded.
• Scrimbot will continue to invite more players until it can create a group of 12 (or so) players.
• Voting on a gametype (and map, based on available servers) will be performed in the party.
• Scrimbot will select a suitable empty server and deploy the entire party to the server.
• Due to technical reasons, the party will not be used for assigning teams and will allow the server to perform a autobalance on the players from the start with a full server (ideal conditions)
• The match will start and continue as normal. Scrimbot will monitor the match via it's limited methods.
• At 80% completion of the match, scrimbot will enable optional voting for mode/map, and scan for other players it can use to swap out/replace users that left/readd users that left the party.
• At the completion of the match, scrimbot will finalize voting.
  • If no users are to be added to the party, and voting did not result in wanting to change to another server, scrimbot will return to step 9.
  • If no users are to be added to the party, and voting resulted in wanting to change to another server, scrimbot will return to step 7.
  • If users are to be added to the party, scrimbot will move the party out to the lobby, send invites to players, and return to step 4.
  • If the party falls below a certain threshold, or the party votes to disband, the players will be returned to the lobby and removed from the party. Scrimbot moves back to step 2.

I've been thinking about doing a system like this for some time, but due to lack of interest (and pending rewrites for scrimbot and my api client library), I never got around to making this a reality. Before I want to invest the time I have into this, I wanted to get feedback from the community as to if they thing this is a good idea, and if they would be interested in frequently using such a system.

Please let me know what you all think of this. I will update this post as I can with more info and such.

[AsianJoyKiller]

Do eet.

[ticklemyiguana]

Yes but holy fuzzy bunny you should be payed for this.

[Silverfire]

Yes please and

 

[Nov8tr]

Interesting. Thanks for the link mate.

[OdinTheWise]

it would be nice to have it so that you can temporarilly opt out for an hour or two so that it doesnt keep asking you to join 

[CraftyDus]

I for one never said that smurfing "is because otherwise people can't get into matches".

 

And I never need to "defend" smurfing  any more than others need to "defend" ranked matchmaking (its completely unnecessary for people who are potty trained and capable of unsupervised moments in the world).

 

I'd cue up this pug system like everyone else will anyhow...smurfin or not.

 

Being able to Change your callsign on whim is all I'm really missing.

 

I mean for the most part we've been self pugging it flaccid for thousands of hours already.

 

So I'd use it. I'd use it so hard.

[IareDave]

Is it mmr restricted? 

[Ashfire908]

Is it mmr restricted?

No.

[LEmental]

I'm interested!  How can I help?

[Ashfire908]

I'm interested!  How can I help?

I don't need help with anything atm, but I will post if or when I do.

[Amidatelion]

This is basically all I do anyways, so I'm all for automating it.

[DerMax]

*You have reached your quota of positive votes for the day*

[MomOw]

I would be great if you manage to do it !

[Anichkov3]

In my opinion, you can make it much easier. 

1) Simply add to the game is not password protected private server (they can be like anything else on the sign in the name of individual).

2) Exclude these private server from the server list when there is a "quick start" (search for a match).

3) Disconnect filtration players at the entrance of the match on MMR (ie a player with any MMR can go to the match).

4) You can get into the game exclusively using the "Browse Server" and selecting a particular server.

[OmegaNull]

And thus, Ashfire is as awesome as ever!

[OdinTheWise]

will it send out invites if there is not enough players to fill the party?

[Ashfire908]

will it send out invites if there is not enough players to fill the party?

If you mean there is not enough people online atm to fill a party, no it will not send out invites.

[Silverfire]

Would it be possible for players to see the names of the other players in the pool that scrimbot currently has lined up? Might be helpful for community events, making sure people are getting matched up with the right people with scrimbot. From there the player can accept or decline according to the group of players it sees.

Edited by Silverfire, 26 March 2015 - 10:22 AM.

[opicr0n]

Great idea and initiative Ash!

[Ashfire908]

Would it be possible for players to see the names of the other players in the pool that scrimbot currently has lined up? Might be helpful for community events, making sure people are getting matched up with the right people with scrimbot. From there the player can accept or decline according to the group of players it sees.

The PUG system should not be used for events. I have a separate system that could be used in that case (which is actually ready to rock right now! Please get in touch if you would like access).

I will look into displaying the users currently in the party before accepting, but it will probably have to be a separate command.

[Houruck]

If scrimbot does tha parties would it not take an empty space on the server?

[Ashfire908]

If scrimbot does tha parties would it not take an empty space on the server?

Scrimbot itself does not join the server. It reserves the slots for the players and excludes itself.

This specific condition actually causes a bug in the backend where flagging the slots for a party results in the server ignoring the reservations, which is why I am unable to set parties.

Edited by Ashfire908, 26 March 2015 - 01:48 PM.

[eth0]

how about mayhem parties?

[SigmaOmega]

I like

[Ashfire908]

how about mayhem parties?

Mayhem already ignores MMR, so I think adding a PUG system for mayhem would be feature creep. Also worried about trying to find 24 players at once.

[Nept]

Sounds good, Ash.  Would there be a way to replace dropped players from the PUG server?

[Ashfire908]

Sounds good, Ash.  Would there be a way to replace dropped players from the PUG server?

Per my design, it will attempt to replace players at the end of matches, as you can only add players to the party from the lobby, not while in a server. You may be able to get away with inviting players then doing a server switch rather than moving the whole party to the lobby. Will look into it. However this is one of the issues facing the system.

Edited by Ashfire908, 26 March 2015 - 02:57 PM.

[Nept]

Even if we could invite players from the friends list into the server, it would largely solve the issue - at least for the game in progress.  Could always drop that person once the map finished.

[Ashfire908]

Even if we could invite players from the friends list into the server, it would largely solve the issue - at least for the game in progress.  Could always drop that person once the map finished.

If someone disconnects they could join off the friends list, assuming the mmr isn't out of range for them. If they are in the range scrimbot will still need to get them back into the party (for voting and move control) so I'd have to do some nonsense to get them back in.

Edited by Ashfire908, 26 March 2015 - 03:15 PM.

[hestoned]

YOU THE MAN ASHFIRE

 

AMERICA

[OdinTheWise]

[spo0n]

If someone disconnects they could join off the friends list, assuming the mmr isn't out of range for them. If they are in the range scrimbot will still need to get them back into the party (for voting and move control) so I'd have to do some nonsense to get them back in.

 

Only case I am curious about would be when players join a server mid match because of an open slot.  Could be an invited friend, the exact player that dropped, or even someone who is not in the PUG system and decided to join a random sever that is 11/12.

 

If you can do nonsense to place players into a deployed party however, most of this would be a non issue and up simply to your discretion and time.

 

 

Most importantly, this seems awesome and cool and ashfire is a super guy wizard.

[Ashfire908]

Only case I am curious about would be when players join a server mid match because of an open slot.  Could be an invited friend, the exact player that dropped, or even someone who is not in the PUG system and decided to join a random sever that is 11/12.

 

If you can do nonsense to place players into a deployed party however, most of this would be a non issue and up simply to your discretion and time.

 

 

Most importantly, this seems awesome and cool and ashfire is a super guy wizard.

 

I thought about it some more, and I'm not actually sure if I could move a party back to the lobby from scrimbot alone. I would need to check how the 6v6 matching handled it, but those servers aren't up atm.

[Leonhardt]

[SigmaOmega]

The more I read this, the more excited I get.

[teeth_03]

This idea sounds really cool, but I feel like there is a much easier solution to this problem:

 

Put up servers that ignore MMR and make sure the match making ignores them, so you have to use the server browser to get there.

 

I mean, that's essentially what you are trying to do right? Get a bunch of people together regardless of their MMR?

Edited by teeth_03, 29 March 2015 - 07:03 AM.

[Mergaz]

Would not it be easier to create undefined MMR servers and remove the option for players entering games whose MMR is very low?  All players who can not find games with your MMR could enter in matches without it.

PS: Could have an option in MM waiting time for the player automatically enter in a game without MMR defined by your account at risk and immediately. This option would not be chosen by beginners, but experienced vets would be a good choice to avoid delay in the search of a game.

Edited by Mergaz, 29 March 2015 - 07:01 AM.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

This idea sounds really cool, but I feel like there is a much easier solution to this problem:

 

Put up servers that ignore MMR and make sure the match making ignores them, so you have to use the server browser to get there.

 

I mean, that's essentially what you are trying to do right? Get a bunch of people together regardless of their MMR?

 

 

Would not it be easier to create undefined MMR servers and remove the option for players entering games whose MMR is very low?  All players who can not find games with your MMR could enter in matches without it.

PS: Could have an option in MM waiting time for the player automatically enter in a game without MMR defined by your account at risk and immediately. This option would not be chosen by beginners, but experienced vets would be a good choice to avoid delay in the search of a game.

 

 

Not as a 'community project' using Scrimbot.  This is a change Reloaded would have to sanction and implement.

[Mergaz]

Not as a 'community project' using Scrimbot.  This is a change Reloaded would have to sanction and implement.

The change in the value of some of the MMR servers depends on an entire patch? I think that led to implement right away without the MM option suggested. Something just emergency to prevent the exodus of players immediately.

Edited by Mergaz, 29 March 2015 - 08:25 AM.