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New Player Mech and Loadout Options

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#81
LockonIza

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Back when i played hawken a lot, i saw a certain breed of players who mains the CRT to the extend that they switched out the main chassis into the Assault chassis. Towards the end of my leave of absence in the game, i became part of that rare breed of players that prefers to main the CRT. I've switched out the main chassis, decked it out in lvl 3 parts and even bought different repair drones for it. 

 

The reason i prefer to main the CRT rather than the Assault was for it's stats in combination of my playstyle. I love the CRT for it's reload rather than the Assault's air dodge. I think all you need is to give it a cosmetic change while keeping the box design an option to use such as elite chassis. I think either give new recruits the ability to change out the chassis to the Assault chassis, or make a new design for the Assault chassis and give the CRT the current Assault chassis and make the CRT box design an alternate elite design for players that spends time to play with it and unlocks the elite for it. 

 

Now that the CRT design is going out, i think i may switch back to the box design to show my pride.


Edited by LockonIza, 26 March 2015 - 04:33 AM.

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#82
Pastorius

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I think I would stick to the CRT (perhaps with the elite chassis and unlock the Fred with BSOD as the new elite skin) and make the grind easier. When you start a new game like this wouldn't you expect to be driving a base model mech?

Internals: Air Compressor for sure, and then (as AJK says) things like the Re-constructor and "that thing that sucks up health orbs" the Extractor.

Items: MKIII Det and HE Charge (to go with the Extractor).


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#83
Houruck

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Why all this hate on poor Fred? :-[

It is so ugly it is actually cute.

As others already stated it before me it is iconic.

 

Spoiler

 

You want to change it because it looks like a CRT screen or because it is not user friendly enough?

Previously the CR-T came with exclusive internals that degraded over time and forced you to switch them out.

But while they lasted the new players had a little something to help them to fight against people who already had other mechs.


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#84
Grollourdo

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Mah I WANNA MAKE FRED BECOME A LEGEND ! XD

so y not remove Fred from tutorial unlock and replace with asult XD

let all alpha and adheasive age players keep Fred XD

And let players on some occasions unlock Fred with a redeemable code? XD make him rare and all XD

this will make a lot of players like Fred I think no?

Lol I think I hot a suggestion on how to do the code advertisement XD maybe like idk post a bunch of codes on twitter twice like on big rare occasions XD and in those codes there are different prizes like

Different sum of hcs most of the time?

Like in thows bunch of codes like just a few are for a Lil bit of mc? And VERY FEW maybe even just one is for Fred? XD

Then sometimes we could do other stuff or something idk....


Lol I just want Fred to stay but is the unique mech of the game XD

Edited by Grollourdo, 26 March 2015 - 04:42 AM.

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#85
Pastorius

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:D Just be clear, I too am a huge fan of the FRED! It is indeed and ICON. 
 
Spoiler

 
It should definitely stay as the starting mech. I don't think the look of it is the problem at all but swap it out for the elite skin only if you really have to.

Edited by Pastorius, 26 March 2015 - 04:55 AM.

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#86
Houruck

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Even if you argue that the default CR-T chassis is not appealing for new players they can see the other mechs (playing against them or because of the test drives) and that makes them more compelled to grind for those.


Edited by Houruck, 26 March 2015 - 05:16 AM.

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#87
Tankman95

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Okay I skipped two pages, so don't throw any stones at me if I repeat something.

In my opinion the problem isn't Fred. Sure he looks like a microwave, but that's only a minor thing. He can compete with other B class mech. And that's the point, B class.

 

Give new pilots mechs in all classes. basic mechs, like the CR-T itself

There are some old abandoned mech parts, like the old Berserker chassis (was it the Berserker?) that can be used.

Spoiler

 

Offering a wide variety of playstyles and learn how to pilot the different classes from the begining is IMO a good start into the game.


Edited by Tankman95, 26 March 2015 - 05:23 AM.

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#88
OmegaNull

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New players feel like they can't compete.  And, yes, there's a pretty nasty learning curve.  Not quite Eve Online learning curve, but it's in that direction:
That I can understand. This game (as stated with the pic) has a pretty steep learning curve. It is one of those "Easy to use, difficult to master" games that are few and far between these days. 
*snip
 
 
We're working on rebuilding the ability to release new clients, game servers, and other systems, so we can't do code changes right now to address the issue.  And we can't just wave a magic wand and "fix it".  So, what *can* we do... like, right now?  After looking at the various tools available, here's what I think will tide us over until we can address things in a more comprehensive way:
 
 
Since there are a lot new users who get the impression that Hawken is about household appliances battling over... something, I want new users to start off with the Assault mech.  I will never forget a board member finding this image:
*snip
The Salt Mech (hahaha) is not all that much more powerful than the CR-T. To be honest, the Fred is not a bad mech, actually is really good even for a starter. Yes, the assault is a little faster, little more health, slightly better air dynamics, etc. but not much else. However, the mental aspect of giving a player a different starting mech is not a bad idea. Though the CR-T has been traditionally the starting mech to begin with. Tradition doesn't necessarily stick around though. Sometimes doing something off the normally beaten path is good. 
 
 
 
 
Starting with the Assault should help address that snap judgement.
In some ways, I can see that being the case. 
 
On a related note, back when I was green and free of all Hawken skills, I would notice the loadouts of the mechs killing me.  They had stuff that I didn't.  And then I noticed the only way for me to get that stuff was to either play a really really long time, or spend cash to get it.  Honestly, that's thinly veiled "pay to win", or it's dirty uncle "pay to compete".  I don't like that; and it's not even necessary!  What can we do though?
 
 
What if we simply give new users a full loadout of internals (let them choose their own deployables and items).  I suspect the best loadout for brand new users would emphasize survivability and slowing down the Time To Kll - so they have a little longer to process what's happening before they get killed.  Personally, when I first started Hawken, I found myself mystified as to why I just died... I didn't know what to look for, and it happened so fast that it took a *lot* of deaths before I figured it out.  There are many people who lose interest before then.  If we can reduce the number of deaths required for the average new player to "get" Hawken, then, well, that just benefits us all ;)
Personally, I think 3 repair orbs and EMP. Internal wise would be Air Compressor, Repair Kit, Basic Extractor. This way there are some nice internals (Not exactly a meta either) and offers both movement increase and health orb absorption rate. 
 
So... how can all this go down?  I want to try a few different new player loadouts while we're rebuilding our development capacity.  Then, I'm hoping you will seek out new players and ask for their impressions of Hawken.  This is a qualitative approach to improving the new player experience, and I think it will yield some genuine advances.
Looks like a smurf is needed... again! Many newbies come and visit the forums or even the steam forums for that matter. Though making this exact same post on the steam forums wouldn't be a bad idea. 
 
 
In recap, here's what I want to try, and what I want from you:
 
1. Let's give new players the Assault mech instead of the CR-T
    - Yell at me in the comments if that's just too offensive ;)
2. What do you think the new player loadout should be?  Reply with your thoughts.
    - Internals specifically (consider higher-tier items - they're all balanced after all)
    - Focus on survivability and slowing down the Time To Kill
    - I want to choose the first set this Friday morning (2 days from now)
3. Seek out new players and ask them:
    - What's their snap judgement of Hawken... how does it come across?
    - How much do they feel they can contribute to their team's success? How far from "competitive" to they feel?
 
 
I assume you're going to reply to this topic.  And probably message me with some choice words too ;)
 
 
 
-capnjosh

 


Edited by OmegaNull, 26 March 2015 - 05:34 AM.

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#89
PoopSlinger

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I think the pick one of three options as you start is a great idea; it worked for Pokemon.  They can pick one of three fully kitted out mechs.  Each has a purpose and is viable at all levels of play and won't let people fuzzy bunny about not having gear.  Also give a good explanation beside each mech so they can read up on what they are about to decide. 


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#90
Daralome

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So, I read the first page and skipped the others... But I think its great we're worrying about the new players :)

But I would like to say that I'm against subbing out the CR-T for the Assault. After all, they are basically the same mech. In my opinion CR-T works just fine as a beginner mech, its just too funky looking and the beginners stand out. 

My suggestion would be to just change the name and the skin on the CR-T so that it doesn't push away the new guys. I know that I personally received the mech, and played it just to obtain the elite skins to get away from tv head. However CR-T and assault are so similar that I'd almost say their ability should get switched out... perhaps give CR-T an "armour up" ability or something, give him +50% health for 5 seconds. I've been reading what you guys are saying about survivability and I think you're right.

 

We can just retire the old CR-T name and skin, call them early beta exclusives or something.


Edited by Daralome, 26 March 2015 - 06:28 AM.


#91
Hijinks_The_Turtle

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My responses are in green.

 

Starting with the Assault should help address that snap judgement.
I'd personally say that's a good idea.  However, can we please keep the CRT?  Let the newer players have the Assault OR give the elite skin on the CRT to the newbies and leave us the reg and the elite skin.  He's an awesome mech and he's the mascot for my artwork. :c
 
On a related note, back when I was green and free of all Hawken skills, I would notice the loadouts of the mechs killing me.  They had stuff that I didn't.  And then I noticed the only way for me to get that stuff was to either play a really really long time, or spend cash to get it.  Honestly, that's thinly veiled "pay to win", or it's dirty uncle "pay to compete".  I don't like that; and it's not even necessary!  What can we do though?
?Make the items/weapons cheaper and get rid of the vertical progression.
 
What if we simply give new users a full loadout of internals (let them choose their own deployables and items).  I suspect the best loadout for brand new users would emphasize survivability and slowing down the Time To Kll - so they have a little longer to process what's happening before they get killed.  Personally, when I first started Hawken, I found myself mystified as to why I just died... I didn't know what to look for, and it happened so fast that it took a *lot* of deaths before I figured it out.  There are many people who lose interest before then.  If we can reduce the number of deaths required for the average new player to "get" Hawken, then, well, that just benefits us all ;)
Good idea, we should also make a better tutorial and change the way Radar, Incinerator, and Tech work.
 
So... how can all this go down?  I want to try a few different new player loadouts while we're rebuilding our development capacity.  Then, I'm hoping you will seek out new players and ask for their impressions of Hawken.  This is a qualitative approach to improving the new player experience, and I think it will yield some genuine advances.
Do it nice and steady, ADH failed for changing too many things at the same time..
 
 
In recap, here's what I want to try, and what I want from you:
 
1. Let's give new players the Assault mech instead of the CR-T
    - Yell at me in the comments if that's just too offensive ;)
2. What do you think the new player loadout should be?  Reply with your thoughts.
    - Internals specifically (consider higher-tier items - they're all balanced after all)
    - Focus on survivability and slowing down the Time To Kill
    - I want to choose the first set this Friday morning (2 days from now)
3. Seek out new players and ask them:
    - What's their snap judgement of Hawken... how does it come across?
    - How much do they feel they can contribute to their team's success? How far from "competitive" to they feel?
For 1 and 2, my answers are above.  As for 3, a lot of my friends have thought that Hawken was p2w just by the shop.  That definitely needs to be fixed.
 
I assume you're going to reply to this topic.  And probably message me with some choice words too ;)
 
 
 
-capnjosh

 


Edited by Hijinks_The_Turtle, 26 March 2015 - 06:07 AM.


#92
HugeGuts

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Keep the CR-T's stats the same. Rename it and change the default model to the Elite version. Considering Hawken is supposed to have a gritty and dirty post apocolyptic setting, something silly like a TV mech stands out too much for new players!

 

Any of the defensive items and internals are a good choice for a free newbie package. The important decisions are what versions to use.

 

I agree with having a rotating trial system for items and internals like there is for mechs.


Edited by HugeGuts, 26 March 2015 - 06:05 AM.


#93
Hyginos

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Perhaps replace assault with that unreleased B mech I keep hearing about (Pusher?).

 

This could do a few things:

-nerf the assault/fred class: CRT is weaker than the assault and now the only alternative.

-Increase the average number of CRT mechs in a server, thus making it appear more popular and perhaps more viable to new players.

-Add content to the game.

 

For those of you who already have an assault, there's your exclusive beta mech yall keep clamoring for, just now its made statistically identical to the Fred.


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#94
Amulame

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To start off, the CR-T is not a bad mech. I have been rekt by players that know how to play it more than once, thus

changing the start mech to the Assault mech would *in my opinion* change nothing at all. 

 

Q: If you give a newbie a "op" mech, rather than a "okay" does that make him better? A: No, he stays a newbie and will newbie till his newbie days are over.

 

Q: Does internals or items make it easier to survive? A: Yes, I lost count how many times my internals and items have saved myself and helped my team.

 

Now if you are a newbie and you are thrown into the world of Hawken and then suddenly get or have to choose different internals and items to match your style you will still have no idea what your doing seeing as you are still trying to get used to the game play and trying to figure out how not to die.

 

I propose we keep the CR-T as the starter mech and create 2 new mechs. One heavy and one light which is newbie friendly and are really cheap to get via HC. This will easily allow the player to get used to our 3 mech types and let them choose the one that fits their style the most.

 

Also since items are a bit confusing maybe we can create a small tutorial that lets the player use each type atleast once and maybe a more detailed info on the internals so that they know what each does and what effect it will have ingame. Then after they complete this trial they can choose 2 free internals and 2 free items to get instantly on their CR-T mech. (Maybe the other 2 starter mechs aswell, if they are added.)

 

Also maybe a reward system if they continue playing for say atleast 5 days in a row a boost on their HC?

Newbies always love free things, which is nice to get them into loving this game.


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#95
EchoJester

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I say dont just give them the assult,instead make the assult an award for experience as in have them complete all game modes atleast once until there end no mid game quitting then not only will they have to start like the rest of us but then after only a couple hours of play they find themselves with two mechs how cool would that feel.
Also whats wrong with a washing machine mech?!! There are players who own three or four heavily armed and experienced players at a time with the recruit,the great thing about hawken is any mech and loadout can dominate with experience lest we forget.

#96
Daralome

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K, finished reading... Personally as a beginner, Fred is not a bad mech, but he's just okay. Not amazing. Which is fine. If we want to have newbie friendly mechs, then CR-T > Assault. Give it deflectors or whatever, and it can stand its ground for at least a few seconds.

I do agree that the tutorial could use some work, I also skipped that by accident somehow... didn't really suffer from it, but could see how some people would.

Currently our "cheap" mechs are the assault (good) the reaper (good) and the brawler... (not so newbie friendly)... I bought that as my 3rd mech, and it's still rank one. After the assault it seemed to lack power and it really can't be played the same way. I would recommend a switch in prices between brawler and vanguard, as that one is easily the most newbie friendly of the C-class.

 

Also, some of you are talking about having videos about each mech individually and how to play it. Recently I discovered SoldierHobbes11's "How to Hawken" series of youtube videos where he describes in reasobaly good detail the way each mech works with its ability, individual weapons, and general playstyle. I found it useful, especially for mechs ive been wanting to buy, gave really good insight.

 

https://www.youtube....y=how to hawken


Edited by Daralome, 26 March 2015 - 06:44 AM.


#97
DM30

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First off I just want to say that I really like the mindset that this post shows: new player experience first! I think they're starting in the right place.

Now, I think Tickle's suggestion pretty much hit the nail on the head for me. The Assault is a better mech overall for experienced players, but for people adjusting to the game the CRT seems to emphasize a lot of the right things. The Assault may help reduce the household appliance perception, but gameplay-wise I think the CRT should stay where it is.

Aesthetically, I'm not sure what a good solution is. Switching out the default parts for the elite parts could be a good option, and since there's no option to pay for them you wouldn't be cheating anyone out of anything, but there's one drawback that I can see, and that's the customization. I envision a player gaining their MC service award and going to the garage to pimp out their mech, but...camos don't apply to elite parts. They see the option to apply camos and trim lines, but if the elite chassis is default then I can see them coming to two conclusions:
1- Something in the game is broken
2- They feel cheated because the customization the interface said they could do actually isn't available to them.
So I don't know what to do about that.

Equipment-wise, like Tickle said, give them everything for their started mech (CRT or Assault, whatever it ends up being). Allow them to have free reign over the setup of their first mech so they can decide what they like and what they don't. Give it a well-rounded, balanced default loadout, maybe with AC so they can experience the extra mobility and don't come to hack/p2w conclusions when they see people using them. I WOULDN'T recommend the orblord setup for the reasons already stated: if the game hands you the best right off the bat, it discourages experimenting with things. By the time they get to higher-tier, more competitive levels they'll probably gravitate toward orblording on their own, but for casual players and people starting out we don't need to shove it down their throats.

I also like giving them a C-class and A-class for free or for a GREATLY reduced price to start with, too. Brawler seems like a good choice for a C-class. For A-class, maybe not Berzerker because since it's loadout is so similar to CRT and Assault it doesn't really offer much of a different playstyle. My choice would be Infiltrator because it still has the sustained hitscan primary as default that new players already know, but offers a different style of play.

After the quick fixes, I definitely think the next steps should be a reduced initial grind (bring back HC service awards!) and a much better system of tutorials.

Whatever the decision going forward, again, I really like the motivation behind this thread. :smile:

Edited by DM30, 26 March 2015 - 06:53 AM.

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#98
reznog

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For the longest time i believed that the CRT is inferior to the Assault, until i actually played CRT with full internals/items, now i even prefer CRT over Assault (that fuel regen!) Yes it might look a less imposing in comparison, but that just makes unlocking the elite parts much more satisfying.

 

What i wanna say is: CRT is totally fine and swapping it out would kind of turn it obsolete.

Adding some internals is a great idea though and should be enough to stop new players from getting the impression of a pay2win game.

 

I'd say the an Advanced Armor Fusor is a must have and Composite Armor obviously makes sense for a beginner mech.

 

Just my 2 cents. :smile:

 

Edit: On a second thought, having new players start out with Assault is actually a good idea, but then you should go all the way:

Scrap the CRT, rebalance the Assault. How about Armor down to 540, Fuel regen up to 9,99 and a slight push to Heat Rec. and Radar.

And the Parts? Free gift for completing the Tutorials!


Edited by reznog, 28 March 2015 - 03:27 AM.

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#99
DisorderlyMechanic

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How about static test mechs for new players, they could be fleshed out with decent internets and items. Then after an allotted amount of game time they would change to rotate randomly with other players. This way you could give beginners constant access to mechs that can compete with other players but they wouldn't be able to keep them; this would basically mean they would get just good enough to compete with the recruit mech against other better players.

 

Obviously the disadvantage to this is that smurfs will be given stronger mechs right off the bat which is not good.



#100
tBanzai

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Please don't take old Fred behind the barn and shoot him.  The CRT look is too iconic and is something of a mascot to Hawken at this point.  You take away the mass appeal that it has as a starting mech, you take out a lot of the charm that HAWKEN has for newer players.

 

You can change the stats or whatever however you like, but all new players should start off with good old Fred and work up to other mechs or looks.  Not only is the CRT cute, but having new players work up to other chassis' is a key concept behind reward based gameplay.

 

Personally, I think bringing back the newbie internals is a good direction to go.

 

However, there's another issue I want to highlight in that if someone goes from a test mech to a fresh-bought mech, they're taking an outright downgrade from the test drive mech.  THAT is not good.  You're looking at reverse progression as far as the new player sees.

 

The biggest weakness HAWKEN has had for me is exactly that.  The sense of progression is either non-existent or very slow.


Edited by tBanzai, 26 March 2015 - 07:11 AM.


#101
Crminimal

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I lean towards renaming the CRT to Assault and let the Fred chassies live on in the shop. 
As for items and internals: just make the Trial mech loadouts universally available for all players, so there is a rotating enforced meta for the newbies to experiment with and break out of, rendering the need to sink credits into trying to compete a non issue. Make it so that the xp you earn playing trial mechs is free to transfer. 

I think the ability to experiment and find what works for you is more important for new players then TTK. And using the Trial system as a form of rotating meta would help players get to grips with what internals and items they want to invest credits on at the same time as it negates any feeling of inferiority due to lack of credits.

 

Regarding he issue of getting players out of the starting boots as quickly as possible: Give the players a one time coupon for a free trial mech, inform the players to hold on to it and encourage exploring playstyles before deciding. And give each Trial phase a clear deadline in the client, before the next rollout.
Maybe give another Coupon on Max Pilot rank.




 



#102
ROBOT120807

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Excuse the wall of text that awaits you

Seems like everyone's focusing on how "The CRT isn't a bad mech" but I feel like they're missing the point here. 
New players come in and see everyone running around with A class mechs, predators, raiders, mechs that look cool and do cool things. 
Then they go to their mech selection and see their microwave on legs of a mech. On a psychological level it's a sense of "well that's awful I want what they've got". They go to buy a new mech immediately and... Can't afford anything. 

 

So I just started playing back in December and this was pretty much my experience. I bought a new mech pretty much as soon as I got the free MC new players get. Until then, I was just playing the test drive mechs because I was so badly put off by the CRT.
These days I'm actually playing the CRT more, finally working my way towards leveling the thing up, since I now know that there's nothing wrong with it past the aesthetic of it. 

That being said I think it would absolutely be helpful to give the CRT out fully, or even partially loaded with some internals, so new players at least don't feel like they're playing with a handicap at level 1. 

 

And regarding the amount of grind that goes into getting internals for new mechs: 
I think internals should be universal. You buy it once and you can use it on any mech you have. If any of you have ever played League of Legends, they use a "rune" system where you can buy items using in-game currency to buff the stats of the champions you play. These can be used on any champion from the moment they're purchased. Similarly, different tiers of these unlock as you level up. 
Buying a new mech is an exercise in frustration. You grind for hours on end to save the HC necessary for it and then when you go to play it you can't use any of the internals you bought already for other mechs. So it's back to grinding again, hours upon hours just to get back some minor bonuses. And when you finally fill up your slots, and feel like trying out a different setup, it's back to grinding for hours on end just to get the chance to swap out a part or two. 

League's F2P model works because they make the paywall as minimal as possible. People spend money on that game because they want to, not because they feel like they're falling behind. 

 

New mechs take forever to buy using HC. I'd say you can keep the prices of them the same, hell, maybe even raise them if it means universal internals. 



#103
Aelita

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Whatever you decide on this, it is a move into the right direction. Give Beginners cool stuff to experiment with.



#104
FLes

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I would remove CRT from the game, it makes the whole game look silly. I really hated that I had to play in it, and I hate looking at it.


Edited by FLes, 26 March 2015 - 08:11 AM.


#105
OmegaNull

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1. The CRT is a starter mech because it is in fact, a noob friendly version of the assault.

 

It has a larger radar area. It has a larger fuel tank, and a faster fuel regen. It has a faster cooldown from overheating, and as far as I'm aware, the ability eliminates more heat than the assault. (Though that really might be only the case for the G2 Assault.)

 

What do these factors have in common?

 

They assist in the things that new players, familiar with FPS games, are not used to controlling. It's more forgiving for them. However, to keep it balanced with the Assault, it trades off a couple things, like speed and health. Things that most players are already familiar with.

 

Furthermore, the starting weapon for the CRT is the assault rifle. I can't speak for everyone, but I know when I started playing Hawken, I liked to keep people at a distance, because I didn't know what I was doing. The AR helped with that, while the SMC, which the assault comes equipped with by default, would help with that less so.

 

Don't give new players a less accessible mech just because it "looks cool." Don't rush this. Reskin the model of the CRT with assault, and Assault with CRT, if this is the route you want to take.

 

 

 

2. The brawler and the reaper are the cheapest mechs in the game because they represent some extremes of it. The brawler is one of the slowest mechs in the game, is intensely close ranged (with the flak, obviousy), and is rather bursty. The reaper is a relatively quick A mech, and is clearly the antonym of the flak brawler in terms of range. The AM SAR can be played as a relatively sustained weapon, and the mech is the most forgiving mech in the game in terms of fuel regeneration.

 

Neither of their abilities are particularly crazy, nor is the CRT's. None of them throw you curveballs, and considering all of this, they are meant to be purchased first so the player can work inward from there. (The assault is also at the same price tier, for obvious reasons.)

 

A new player's starting loadout should be these mechs, and be able to purchase one other mech at a rate of 50% or greater, off. Someone here stated that feeling like you have control over the direction you take as a new player is important, and I'd agree.

 

However, much of this needs to be explained to a new player. They can't just feel like they're being dumped on the battlefield with mediocre mechs.

 

The tutorial, as it stands, is garbage. The basics it teaches are rudimentary FPS basics with the slight twists that Hawken brings. It's very important that a new player is told that the mechs they are using are powerful, and why.

 

A tutorial is not something you can roll out by Friday, but the rest of that is, and the tutorial should be a high priority. Those of us here can wait for new content. I think you are correct in acting in a direction that assists new players first. But do it right. The tutorial, and helping players understand that they are not being tossed to the wolves out of the gate, is a high priority.

 

 

 

3. It's important to note that the issue isn't all new player's opinions. The issue is the opinions of the players that leave, or even those who haven't played yet and don't want to because of something they've heard.

 

__________________________________________________________________________________

 

 

I would recommend releasing the CRT, Assault, Brawler, and Reaper all at once, with a 50% or greater price deduction on a new player's first purchased mech.

 

Give whatever becomes of the CRT all the internals. Every one. You have to lay the cards on the table for the player to see. Guessing games are discouraging, and guessing games worth literally hours of play (HC grind) are downright frustrating.

 

(Also, please don't slip up and skip over the players who are already existing and don't have the mechs. Give everyone in the game the same deal. Sorry, seen it happen more than once, and the backlash from those players makes it feel as if it's worth saying.)

Wow Tickle, you really nailed things on the head there. I do like the idea of giving the first mech all the internals. Definitely worth that as it encourages experimentation and makes it so players don't feel like there is a paywall or anything along those lines. I think that would also go and further help reduce the idea that Hawken is Pay to Win (once the other parts are put into place). I think there should also be a link in game that a player can click on and drop them at a wiki for further information (something I am sure Josh is working in). 

 

I think another idea is to give new players a buff in experience and HC acquisition. Maybe something like a 25-40% increase so it makes the grind a little less daunting. Then have it slowly taper off as theplayer gains pilot levels (maybe return to normal after level 10).  

 

 

Beginners first! 


Edited by OmegaNull, 26 March 2015 - 08:12 AM.

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#106
Dedhed

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Internals: Shock Coil (no fall damage), the "less self damage" one (I forget the name) and Deflectors (less damage while boosting and dodging).

 

That should definitely slow down time to die.

 

As for Fred vs Assault... they're really the same mech other than special ability, so I'm with some others that there really needs some differentiation between the two.

 

Personally, I'd like to see more customization options across the board. Would love to have more of a "build your own mech" type of system. Certain weapons and abilities restricted based on chassis class, but mostly open customization. The need to buy an entire other mech for a certain weapon or ability could no doubt be a turnoff for new players, especially as regards grinding credits.

 

And then there's the inability to apply paints to chassis parts earned by playing... still irks me and I'm sure would be very disappointing to someone new.


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#107
BaronSaturday

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Here's my idea. Change the CRT-Recruit name to the Assault P-Type with the elite chassis to start and make the Fred body unlockable. Keep it as the starter mech. The internals it has are fine, but the number of internals is a little overwhelming. But little can be done about it. I see people in my MMR range still using the CRT. It's not like it's a bad mech. Actually, there a plenty of people that feel it's one of the bestin the game. It's familiar, expected, well rounded, and dangerous with a skilled pilot. My first game I had that feeling of, "Yeah. This is what a mech feels like."

For items, no shield. Please no shield. The shield is my bane as a Technician. "I know. I'll drop this shield with 16 hp left and then keep running through it so my tech can't heal me." They need universaly useful items. Scrambler, EMP, ISM, Health Orbs. Give them the basic extractor/health orb combo. They will get better use out of that combo than a shield anyway.
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#108
m3talc0re

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I'm definitely with the group wanting to drop the washing machine body for the Elite model. Really, you could just swap the models. Let the washing machine be the elite chassis.. If you wanna draw in new players and retain them, that washing machine fuzzy bunny's gotta go. People want cool, not derp.

 

As for a starter mech, what about a questionnaire new players answer in game. Anyone play Planetside2? When the player starts, they should do the tutorials first. Run through it in whatever mech or even just some custom VR mech. When they've completed the tutorials, they should be shown a list of a few questions about their play styles and what weapons they prefer using (ie: Close range/high damage, long range/lower damage, etc..). Anyway, base the questions around figuring out what mech's they may enjoy the most to start with. When they're done, the questionnaire will generate a list of 3 mechs, one from each class, based on their choices, which they can choose from. Each one having low tier internals/items, again, based on their choices.

 

The pool of mech choices in each class can be limited and exclude all other mechs. So like A-Class  options could be Berserker, Reaper or Technician (Front line, Ranged, Support) then other A-class mechs and future ones would be excluded from the list of possible starter mechs. This same pattern would go for B-Class and C-Class mechs as well. The current mechs could also all be on the excluded list with new starter mech choices added using chassis that are already in game, just not available.


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#109
MagnaMech

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Im not sure of what new player need, I was a beta tester and i loved the game right away though i think that you should give them a bigger meaning in the game (more missions, tips, around 3 training arena's, ect) 

 

 

 

That is personal opinion but i feel like it would be MUCH better and satisfying if you gave the meshes MORE paintings like in many FPS games (many people look at those mostly), or a special option alike (pay monthly and you will be allowed to paint your own mesh), or even sell paintings or accessory from a player to another like a big flea market or such (pay items are HIGHLY expensive, lights, supply, makers, ect) 

 

these kinda markets made gaming much more fun even for new comers because it gave them a bigger goal and a reason to play the game...Hope this helped.



#110
Bibbly

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1. Let's give player's the CR-T - and an allowance of 3,000HC when training is complete and a victory in each game mode has been won.
 
2. What do I think the new player loadout should be?
A choice between being able to negate fall damage or do a 180 mid-air. (either of those internals)
As well as being able to choose between the LEVEL 2 barricade or Shield. This will directly impact and support survivability and slowing down the Time To Kill.

I'm usually on point when it comes to digital products and services but I can't make any more suggestions without really knowing the feasibility behind their implementation. 

 

base the questions around figuring out what mech's they may enjoy the most to start with. When they're done, the questionnaire will generate a list of 3 mechs

I like the idea of being suggested mechs. A little randomization of the parts in suggestions would go a long way for people who want or need to feel unique or expressive.

 


Edited by Bibbly, 26 March 2015 - 09:08 AM.


#111
Scootaloo_009

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I think the CR-T is a fine mech, and even now it's still one I use because I do like how well rounded it is (and the head is quite fun, personally, it really suits the character of the mech, and the lore behind it.

 

I think what it could use is a new ability, to make it it's own mech, maybe an ability that either helps it escape, or fight longer, like an instant health boost that grants +50-100 health/armor back to the mech when used. That would give them a better chance of surviving early fights, and give the FRED a solid ability.

 

It may just be an okay just to boost the mech's armor or fuel over other class B's.

 

Though personally, I'd rather the game went closer to the original vision with much more customizeable mechs. Like, pick a weight class, then you can put on any primary weapon and any secondary weapon (have only certain ones in each arm selection, so people can't abuse it, like mix the repair torch and the SAARE)


Edited by Scootaloo_009, 26 March 2015 - 09:29 AM.


#112
Lord_Trent_Kellan

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On the note of the suggestion out there to give people the elite skin right off the bat, I am not opposed to this, but it actually gets in the way of customization with the current elite skin.  No elite skin allows for any customization--which I always found stupid.  "If you're good enough, we'll give you a cool looking part that you can't apply any of your old customization with!"

That said, I definitely agree with internals being the biggest bar.  Internals take -forever- to grind up and honestly are just... discouraging at times due to costing significant portions of how much a new mech does. :(

Aside from that, I always liked a just slightly higher TTK in general, but I understand that may never come back like pre-Ascension Beta.  I was able to hop right in then and do well immediately, but my skills are STILL lower than they were in beta as a result of the health nerf, in every mech.  I am a more tactical and judgement based player with a bit less twitch capability, so as is I find it harder to play anyway in its current state.

Regardless, for immediate triage, most of the suggested builds seem just fine.



#113
CounterlogicMan

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I realize in advance this post may be hard to read due to grammatical errors but I am running late to class ~ will fix later.

 

Assault mech rookie loadout

 

Internals:

-Armor Fusor

-Deflectors

-Evasive Device 

 

-Why not Power Surger? One rewards bonus for kill the other one rewards bonus for being low hp. Both have the same result from different situations. I feel the power surger rewards aggressive combat more, something that the armor fusor already does on this setup. I feel the evasive device encourages defensive play well and will give a meaningful bonus when low on HP. Thus contrasting the aggressive internals and giving the setup a nice balance of offensive and defensive options.-

 

In effect this setup is built around raising TTK for new players while encouraging the exploration of the movement model and pacing of Hawken's combat.

 

The new player experience should not be about padding stats against high tier players through a on point meta setup it should be about encouraging an enjoyable gameplay experience.

 

The reason I chose these internals for a new player set up is because they increase TTK for new players and also emphasize different aspects of play that central to Hawken but are not immediately apparent to new players. Armor fusor is focused around the importance of health regeneration during/inbetween combat. Deflectors emphasize the importance of dodging/boosting to avoid fire. Evasive device focuses on the importance of walking in Hawken, which I have noticed is something even mid/mid-high tier players often overlook.

 

On top of the above reasons, the internals are a good fit for the playstyle of the assault mech because they do not require deep knowledge of game mechanics to utilize; the internals are objectively a powerful combination to have on the assault mech; and the setup is not based on the forum meta/playstyles (skewing expectations). Rather the internals are based on encouraging the exploration of the movement and pacing of the game.

 

The internals chosen do not pigeon hole the rookie into having to play a certain way to utilize their internals effectively. They instead push the pilot to explore the movement and pacing of Hawken by giving the new player bonuses for utilizing basic mechanics and doing what we do in Hawken....blow up mechs. I feel that the AF, ED, PS internal setup will be a good fit for the rookie assault and will encourage players to walk around, boost, dodge, and get kills. Learn through positive experience rather than negative. 

 

Items:

 

If possible, new players should immediately have access to all single charge items. Why lock away the ability to make interesting game play choices from new players? Hawken should be encouraging the exploration of game play choices rather than putting them behind grind/pay-for-convenience walls.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Discussion of New Player Experience

 

I think this is a long overdue change and I commend you, capnjosh, for taking this step and also enduring the inevitable fuzzy bunny storm. I will preface my discussion by stating that the CR-T is indisputably an iconic mech, arguably for negative reasons. Yet for all the defense CR-T gets, the mech is objectively a worse version of the assault mech. The meer fact the CR-T has ever existed in a watered down assault form is just insulting to new players and reflects the low reward grind of Hawken's progression system. It has been a hurdle for rookies these past years and for many it has been the beginning and end of their experience with Hawken. The argument that the CR-T is a more accessible or noob friendly version of the assault are, in my opinion, drawn from experiences completely detached from what a new player sees and feels during his or her first hours of playing Hawken. 

 

The average new player I speak of is named Rob and is a real life friend of mine who I got to try out Hawken a month or two back. He still occasionally plays but is not a hardcore gamer by any means. I made sure only to help him when he asked for it as not to spoil or influence him into playing the game my way rather than finding his own way. Even though from a statistical perspective I could have made him a literal wrecking ball in his mmr range through optimal set ups as well as tips and tricks most players aren't exposed to until the highest levels of play. Sure he was influenced by having watched me play before but I feel that anyone who has seen youtube videos of Hawken being played would pick up the same stuff. My sample size in this example is 1 which is not good. But having played the game for a long time I feel that, from my experience watching new players, Rob is a good example of the average new player.

 

The learning of Hawken in its current state is a negative feedback loop. From the average new player (Rob) the experience is as follows: get stomped, learn from mimicry, trial and error until success. Players will toil away in this loop until they are exposed to the wealth of knowledge locked up in the heads of more experienced players. Even then the advice they get is often contradictory to what is intuitive, plain wrong,  and or conflicting with other experienced players views on the issue. This can be a frustrating experience for players especially with buying internals being such a huge commitment with such a punishingly grind oriented progression system. Thus I am in full support of this change and hope that my arguments for the change will sway opinions in favor.

 

~thanks,

~CLM


Edited by CounterlogicMan, 26 March 2015 - 11:07 AM.

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#114
accid3nt_pr0ne

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Keep Fred! You can't beat that moment when you realize you're driving a microwave, you gotta laugh at that. If it is scaring off the little ones, then perhaps alter the appearance of the chassis so it's not so ugly? Also, the CRT and Assault mechs feel too similar, they have the same loadouts, and the same ability. I held off buying Assault since I started playing simply because it was too much the same as the mech I already had.

 

The CRT, being medium weight and having the loadout it does, is a pretty good starter. Nothing too fancy, nothing too complicated. If you're looking for something else to give new players, what if you made a Fred for each weight class and have them choose, or even just giving them all three mechs.

 

As for giving new players a set of internals, setting them up with a full set of those seems to be babying them a little too hard. Now, you could give them the whole selection of internals and say "Pick one!" but I remember the internals being this big mystery to me back in my noob days. Perhaps if you gave them until level two or three and gave them a selection of the smaller internals, so hopefully the noobs have some of an idea as to what they want.

 

As well, perhaps making all the mechs, weapons, items, and internals cheaper would help keep the players playing. Instead of buying a new gun being this huge task that you see yourself playing for days to complete, with a lowered price it would be much more obtainable to everyone, especially the new players who aren't so good and can't make HC as fast.

 

**Off topic, I have been waiting forever for the ability to refund mechs and weapons and such, I've got some items and a couple mechs that I bought and very much regret. For a refund, maybe have the return be lower than the original cost, and for mechs have a compensation for the level or the amount of XP



#115
deidarall

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2. The brawler and the reaper are the cheapest mechs in the game because they represent some extremes of it. The brawler is one of the slowest mechs in the game, is intensely close ranged (with the flak, obviousy), and is rather bursty. The reaper is a relatively quick A mech, and is clearly the antonym of the flak brawler in terms of range. The AM SAR can be played as a relatively sustained weapon, and the mech is the most forgiving mech in the game in terms of fuel regeneration.

 

Neither of their abilities are particularly crazy, nor is the CRT's. None of them throw you curveballs, and considering all of this, they are meant to be purchased first so the player can work inward from there. (The assault is also at the same price tier, for obvious reasons.)

 

A new player's starting loadout should be these mechs, and be able to purchase one other mech at a rate of 50% or greater, off. Someone here stated that feeling like you have control over the direction you take as a new player is important, and I'd agree.

 

 

 

I agree with this, The Assault/CRT is a good B mech learner, the Brawler is a true heavy mech introducing that play style in a effective manner and being not particularly hard to use,  and the reaper is a great intro to hit and run tactics, and using distance effectively.

 

All of these mechs also have different base engagement ranges , and all of them feature hit scan simple to use weps I would suggest having these three mechs be the starters.



#116
GalaxyRadio

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Hi,

 

first, nice opening Capt, i like that and sorry, as my english is very bad, but i hope you will understand, what iam telling now

 

1. Yes, the start is very hard (skill/poor looking mech, no internals/items, small playerbase so new player have to play againts good players while they have nothing and strong players are already stronger wihtout items&internals or alternative, not better weapons). I would say, change the tutorial and let a new player the choice to test a mech he want to with a basic extremly short video pointing out some Pros every mech has. After the tutorial is done, the new player can choose his own mech, instead of getting someone he maybe dont want (Assault)

 

2. information about internals&Items are not very helpfull for new member, because they cant think about how to use them wiseful, so it would be nice, if its somehow possible to make for every internal or item a extremly short video to show how u can use it in a good way (only 5-10seconds long), so the person get in short duration a very good idead for every internal or item and in which mech it could be very effectiv (for example Reconstructor/Shock Coil for Predator)

 

3. instead of playing tactics in a tutorial (it would be too loong and therefore abort), make some nice videotutorials for classic tactics in how to play Siege TDM or Deathmach, only 1 per gamemode would be good enough to keep it simple - easy to learn, hard to master

 

4. the right choice for items/internals for your first mech should be done in 2 ways. 1 is a "proposal" from the devs, which is known as effectiv loadout in many games, but its only a option, so the new player can choose his own items&internals without any limitation, but only for his first mech (after that level up to lvl 30 is certain). So a new player can choose between proposal or what he thinks of his own could be good and going into his next battles without thinking about "pay to win" or "grind for win" 

 

I wanted to keep my post not too long and as simple is i can think of. I hope this helps in your thoughts. Iam very grateful you guys picked up this game, as i love it very much and would spend realy money again to help you gaining enough ressource to make it shine again (and i have already all i wanted, paid already a lot of many, but i want this game to make it).

 

Kind Regards,

 

Galaxy Radio and a Member of Blue Vegeance


Edited by GalaxyRadio, 26 March 2015 - 09:43 AM.

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#117
m3talc0re

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Capnjack, another idea, kinda off topic, would be to release a player studio so that players can make mech parts skins, etc... that can be purchased in game and get a portion of the profit from their items sold. This is how PS2 does it and it works well.


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#118
Miscellaneous

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I'm a little late to the party, I know, but I just wanted to say - 

 

I would say, instead of making Assault the automatic starting mech, give the new users a choice between the Assault and the CR-T, after getting some time to test them. 

 

Also, I'd say add some internals that only function until a certain XP rank, like the old "newbie" internals you could get on the Fred, i.e:

-One 2 bar internal that reduces all heat produced by 10% until XP Rank 4

 

-One 3 bar internal that reduces all incoming damage by 10% until XP Rank 4

 

-One 1 bar interal that decreases fuel consumption by 10% until XP Rank 4

 

I know, not much, might need to be refined a little, but I think it would add to new players survivability when they jump into matches. I would also say for these internals to NOT be purchasable, as otherwise Pros would shove them on their new mechs and pwn everyone.

 

Thanks for reaching out to the community like this :) <3


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#119
Silk_Sk

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As much as I hate to say this game should be more like Warframe (uhg) I think letting them pick one free mech in addition to the CRT is a good idea.


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#120
LEmental

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I don't agree with Tickle's post. I don't think you need to baby a new player with a CRT mech.  The noob stats is whatever.  Give them a full mech that they can use in all levels of play.

 

If you need to baby them, I don't think a mech will fix it.  I think a bigger problem is the tutorial.  I've been talking to a lot of new streamers online and they don't have a clue how everything works.

 

I've been wanting the option of players being able to pick out ANY mech they want at like level 10 or something.  Mechs use to be unlockable.


Edited by LEmental, 26 March 2015 - 10:38 AM.

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