213 replies to this topic

[Vanashinkaku]

LEAVE FRED ALONE, HES NOT THE PROBLEM!  WE LOVE FRED!

 

It's not power, but the perception of power and the steep perceived paywall that players must over-come on a per mech basis that becomes so overwhelming. Before we can attempt to fix the problem, we must first understand what the key issues are in monetization and balance that drive new players into thinking that which is actually not true.  In many cases, it's merely perception and can be fixed solely through changing how a system is portrayed or monetized.  It's been nearly a year since I've been too involved in HAWKEN, but I'll share what I can remember feeling and thinking and crying in my pillow over not being able to change or fix.  This is just the first entry (hopefully) I will find more time to come in and put in more input later, but this issue was one of the biggest for me, as it was the lifeblood of HAWKEN, yet a failure right out the gate.

 

1.) Monetize All The Things!  

 

The Problem:

 

The first issue HAWKEN has (and arguably its biggest) is an issue of too many monetization systems in one game.   Early on, HAWKEN was supposed to be a simple 15$ XBLA title. However, after the hype train came to town, people gained interest and key choice makers decided that HAWKEN would become the next big contender in the F2P market.    The problem with this was that the systems were designed around a slower player and power progression, something not usually "accepted" in the FPS F2P community.   Instead of saying "Let's rethink our entire systems and build the game off of a singular monetization plan", many small pieces of other succesful F2P games were pieced together into a massive F2P Frankenstined on top of the old Premium systems.   This, sadly, never stopped an throughout the development of HAWKEN, more and more, as monetization continued to fail, new systems were added to continue to attempt to monetize on more and more things.   In the end, while most free to play monetization systems focus on few core elements of monetization, HAWKEN wound up in its end attempting to monetize nearly every one of its systems.

 

* Mechs (Purchase)

* Mechs (Levels!?)

* Items (Per Mech Basis!)

* Internals (Per Mech Basis!)

* Weapons

* Cosmetics

  * Skins

  * Drones

  * Cockpit

  * Thrusters

  * etc...

 

 

Why it's a Problem:

 

 

Simply put, players feel that they're being nickle and dimed as they climb a giant paywall.  They get the impression that money is power, and the deathblow to the monetization system, they see a massive wall of currency that they'll never, ever be able to overcome (in their eyes.)  The major issues:

 

* Mechs:  The idea behind the mech system was that it was to be monetized in teh same vein of League of Legends Champions.   The problem with that was that as they found out very quickly, with a small team of 30, pumping out quality, fun, and unique mechs in 1-3 months was nigh on impossible, especially with Adhesives old lack of focus on content over feature creep and monetization (Read "Priorities").   Mechs must be unlocked on a per mech basis, while not necessarily, starting the player with just Fred to customize and play with feels kinda crappy (and lets face it, a match of 12 Freds also looks dumb as hell and is not very fun.) 

 

* Mech Levels:  The idea of leveling a mech after paying for it, gating their ability to costumize them through it (power progression), and the ability to purchase your way past these (pay-to-progress) were all issues with mech levels. On top of this, having to level your mech to become competitively viable will always leave a bad taste in ones mouth.  This negatively impacts the Mech purchasing system as it makes players less willing to buy new mechs due to the investment of time and money involved in each individual mech.      

 

* Items / Internals: While I love Items and Internals, the fact that they must be purchased on a per mech basis yet again discourages players from purchasing multiple mechs (the core of all other monetization systems in the game!).   If a player must grind hours and hours to get an internal or item for each individual mech, you'll find that players will spend more time on that "one" mech that fits their playstyle perfectly, rather than owning several mechs and playing them more often.   

 

* Weapons: The percieved problem:  New weapons should be, and are, stronger.  The reality: Not necessarily.   This is a problem with the players perception of the system and how its portrayed to the player.

 

 

How do we fix the problem? :

 

I have my own ideas that I will share here, but that does not mean they are necessarily the right fit, and honestly, there could be several systems and ideas that could be. The only core thing we must really discuss is how to fix these core issues to make HAWKEN fun, as well as a viable business model.

 

* Mechs:  Before I left (read - laid off), I championed the complete redesign of the Test Drive system and it was a great step in the right direction .   It allows players to get a taste of new mechs with a full loadout and the ability to purchase that "recommended loadout" with the mech at a discounted cost.  Another consideration that was made was making one of each class, A, B, and C as starting mechs, giving players unique playstyle choices right off the bat, more thought needs to go into a system like that, but its also one I could get behind!

 

* Mech Levels:  Lets be honest, they add nothing to the game except for the perception of power progression and wasted time.   Remove them!

 

* Items / Internals:  Simply put, I would love to see this system move to "Shared Loadouts".   Loadouts that can be saved similar to Rune-Pages in LoL.   Get 3 free loadouts, and purchase additional loadout slots.  Loadouts can be used on any mech, and you only have to purchase an item and internal once to apply it to a loadout and multiple mechs can use the same loadout, or you can spend money and get loadouts for each individual situation and team-comp.   Essentially, buy it once, use it on all.

 

* Weapons - Honestly, I've never had a problem with how it works, but a new UI change could really help sway player perception...

 

 

 

Ok, I think that's enough for now.  What are ya'lls thoughts?

Edited by Vanashinkaku, 26 March 2015 - 11:06 AM.

[Hijinks_The_Turtle]

We need CRT to still be there, don't remove him. :c  I don't particularly get the hate for Fred.  It's not finished yet, but I was chuckling at how much of an opportune time it was to show this...  Apologizes for the low quality image, my scanner is broken:

 

The thing is that the CRT is a decent mech, he's more well rounded than the Assault who has some stats switched around.

Edited by Hijinks_The_Turtle, 26 March 2015 - 02:23 PM.

[OmegaNull]

 

LEAVE FRED ALONE, HES NOT THE PROBLEM!  WE LOVE FRED!

 

It's not power, but the perception of power and the steep perceived paywall that players must over-come on a per mech basis that becomes so overwhelming. Before we can attempt to fix the problem, we must first understand what the key issues are in monetization and balance that drive new players into thinking that which is actually not true.  In many cases, it's merely perception and can be fixed solely through changing how a system is portrayed or monetized.  It's been nearly a year since I've been too involved in HAWKEN, but I'll share what I can remember feeling and thinking and crying in my pillow over not being able to change or fix.  This is just the first entry (hopefully) I will find more time to come in and put in more input later, but this issue was one of the biggest for me, as it was the lifeblood of HAWKEN, yet a failure right out the gate.

 

1.) Monetize All The Things!  

 

The Problem:

 

The first issue HAWKEN has (and arguably its biggest) is an issue of too many monetization systems in one game.   Early on, HAWKEN was supposed to be a simple 15$ XBLA title. However, after the hype train came to town, people gained interest and key choice makers decided that HAWKEN would become the next big contender in the F2P market.    The problem with this was that the systems were designed around a slower player and power progression, something not usually "accepted" in the FPS F2P community.   Instead of saying "Let's rethink our entire systems and build the game off of a singular monetization plan", many small pieces of other succesful F2P games were pieced together into a massive F2P Frankenstined on top of the old Premium systems.   This, sadly, never stopped an throughout the development of HAWKEN, more and more, as monetization continued to fail, new systems were added to continue to attempt to monetize on more and more things.   In the end, while most free to play monetization systems focus on few core elements of monetization, HAWKEN wound up in its end attempting to monetize nearly every one of its systems.

 

* Mechs (Purchase)

* Mechs (Levels!?)

* Items (Per Mech Basis!)

* Internals (Per Mech Basis!)

* Weapons

* Cosmetics

  * Skins

  * Drones

  * Cockpit

  * Thrusters

  * etc...

 

 

Why it's a Problem:

 

 

Simply put, players feel that they're being nickle and dimed as they climb a giant paywall.  They get the impression that money is power, and the deathblow to the monetization system, they see a massive wall of currency that they'll never, ever be able to overcome (in their eyes.)  The major issues:

 

* Mechs:  The idea behind the mech system was that it was to be monetized in teh same vein of League of Legends Champions.   The problem with that was that as they found out very quickly, with a small team of 30, pumping out quality, fun, and unique mechs in 1-3 months was nigh on impossible, especially with Adhesives old lack of focus on content over feature creep and monetization (Read "Priorities").   Mechs must be unlocked on a per mech basis, while not necessarily, starting the player with just Fred to customize and play with feels kinda crappy (and lets face it, a match of 12 Freds also looks dumb as hell and is not very fun.) 

 

* Mech Levels:  The idea of leveling a mech after paying for it, gating their ability to costumize them through it (power progression), and the ability to purchase your way past these (pay-to-progress) were all issues with mech levels. On top of this, having to level your mech to become competitively viable will always leave a bad taste in ones mouth.  This negatively impacts the Mech purchasing system as it makes players less willing to buy new mechs due to the investment of time and money involved in each individual mech.      

 

* Items / Internals: While I love Items and Internals, the fact that they must be purchased on a per mech basis yet again discourages players from purchasing multiple mechs (the core of all other monetization systems in the game!).   If a player must grind hours and hours to get an internal or item for each individual mech, you'll find that players will spend more time on that "one" mech that fits their playstyle perfectly, rather than owning several mechs and playing them more often.   

 

* Weapons: The percieved problem:  New weapons should be, and are, stronger.  The reality: Not necessarily.   This is a problem with the players perception of the system and how its portrayed to the player.

 

 

How do we fix the problem? :

 

I have my own ideas that I will share here, but that does not mean they are necessarily the right fit, and honestly, there could be several systems and ideas that could be. The only core thing we must really discuss is how to fix these core issues to make HAWKEN fun, as well as a viable business model.

 

* Mechs:  Before I left (read - laid off), I championed the complete redesign of the Test Drive system and it was a great step in the right direction .   It allows players to get a taste of new mechs with a full loadout and the ability to purchase that "recommended loadout" with the mech at a discounted cost.  Another consideration that was made was making one of each class, A, B, and C as starting mechs, giving players unique playstyle choices right off the bat, more thought needs to go into a system like that, but its also one I could get behind!

 

* Mech Levels:  Lets be honest, they add nothing to the game except for the perception of power progression and wasted time.   Remove them!

 

* Items / Internals:  Simply put, I would love to see this system move to "Shared Loadouts".   Loadouts that can be saved similar to Rune-Pages in LoL.   Get 3 free loadouts, and purchase additional loadout slots.  Loadouts can be used on any mech, and you only have to purchase an item and internal once to apply it to a loadout and multiple mechs can use the same loadout, or you can spend money and get loadouts for each individual situation and team-comp.   Essentially, buy it once, use it on all.

 

* Weapons - Honestly, I've never had a problem with how it works, but a new UI change could really help sway player perception...

 

 

 

Ok, I think that's enough for now.  What are ya'lls thoughts?

 

A Wild Vana Appeared! 

 

Glad to see you back around these parts! Also, I really do like your ideas and personally I have never been a fan of the leveling system. It has always been a pain in the ass. Since my Main account has almost 9 million experience, levels have become basically meaningless and when I purchase a new mech it is just that extra step of annoyance to upgrade it, outfit (wasting my precious 150k HC!), and deck out (SKINS and TAUNTS! Haters Gonna Hate). The idea of LoL's system really sounds intriguing and awesome. Be great to have a system like that.

Edited by OmegaNull, 26 March 2015 - 11:24 AM.

[TerdBurgler]

I certainly remember my first time playing the game and the impressions it left on me, and I also remember a year later inviting a friend to play and the reasons he gave me for not wanting to continue playing.

 

I remember when I started playing back in 2013 before the game was on Steam. My first few days, I felt like a total rockstar in that CR-T. Coming from a Counter Strike background, I was no stranger to FPS games and I didn't feel like the balancing was a particular problem because although I was in a CR-T, just about everyone else was in them too. And I remember that they gave you a starter loadout that beefed the CR-T up pretty nice- internal components that gave you nice bonuses but that became worse the more you leveled up. This also gave them a nice edge on the folks who wanted to dish out the money to buy a new mech because they didn't have those spiffy internals. It made me feel good because the game recognized that I was a newbie but they threw me a bone so that I could compete. Then I hit level 10 and the veil was dropped from my eyes. Suddenly I started falling into servers with some seriously fierce competition. The difficulty ramped up and I realized I would need to change my strategies to keep up and by then, I had the credits to invest in a new mech.

 

I quickly realized what was going on and I honestly appreciated this approach. Back then, the skill-balancing on the servers was really good (possibly because there were a lot more new players then than there are now) and when you first started playing, they basically put all the level 10 and lower players in a little sandbox. They could duke it out among each other and learn the mechanics of the game and not feel completely out-classed because they were all new to the game. Sure, a handful of people dished out to get the fancy mechs but they were still new to the game and learning the mechanics too so any particularly competitive edge was lost. And the best part of it all was by the end of your kiddie-pool run, you had an idea for how the game worked and knew where you could best invest your credits on a new mech. (Though being able to test-run mechs against bot players would really help reduce the buyers remorse for folks who buy mechs that aren't on the multiplayer test drives)

 

That was my experience. Now here's my friend's experience. When he started the game late last year with the CR-T, he just felt stupid. The mech does, admittedly, look pretty pathetic (part of it's charm and it's really grown on me but this is from the impression of a new player). And he didn't get dropped into a playground of of other newbie players. He distinctly remembers getting matched up against level 15 and 20 players with Berserkers and Assaults, Reapers and Rocketeers who tore his inexperienced ass to pieces. Frustrated, he carried on, working up enough credits to get something that could actually take the kind of punishment he was receiving. He wanted a Heavy Mech. And after perusing the list, he decided to settle on the Brawler. After all, it sounds like a mech that can dive into the fray, take a beating and hit hard. Sounds like the perfect mech for a beginner (I thought the exact same thing until I did a test-drive of it and realized just how much skill it takes to wield it well). He was not fortunate enough to have test-drove the mech before he bought it and within minutes of driving the brawler, he realized the terrible mistake had made but he couldn't return it. Credits were rolling in slow now and his only two mechs were a dorky-looking kitchen appliance and a lumbering hunk of target practice. Frustrated and defeated, he quit playing.

 

I believe that giving the Assault to new players is a great way keep them around. Although mechanically VERY similar to the CR-T (the reason I never bought it because I already have a mech that does the same thing) it looks a lot cooler and will help new players feel like they're not driving around in a mechanical joke. After all, you want new players to feel cool when they start the game. Though I wouldn't want the CR-T to simply fall by the wayside forever. Perhaps make it a particularly cheap mech to buy- or an unlockable "vintage" mech. And giving newbies as many internals as possible to keep them in the fray is a good way to acclimate them to the game. I would suggest:

 

Composite Armor - Give them a leg-up if they aren't getting the kills with a little boost in defense

Deflectors - Nobody likes getting killed when on the move by something they didn't see. Deflectors give them a little boost until they know where to look for threats.

Extractor - Keep them in the fray longer with less down-time while also teaching them that glowing orbs are good and you should stand by them.

 

As for items, perhaps the best one to give to beginners is either the Shield to give them a little reprieve if they get overwhelmed (though it can be frustrating as it can just cause everyone to charge you) or the HE Charge (a little extra fire-power to get those kills and make you feel like a bad-ass). 

 

Future suggestions when you have time to mess with the code:

 

-Beefy starter internals that reduce in effectiveness as they gain rank. Gives newbies a leg-up but also doesn't turn their first Assault mech into a free powerhouse. Would also encourage testing new internals as the starter ones wear out.

 

-Level-based server rooms. Even if the servers aren't full, most newbies would rather play on a server with six people their same skill level than 15 people who far out-class them.

 

-EITHER give players the ability to test-run a new mech with bots OR give them a 24-hour return window with new mechs just in case they buy something they end up hating.

[Skrill]

Hey all,

 

Let me start by saying that I am extremely happy to see this issue being addressed. I have tried to get friends playing the game several times and the grind to get a decent looking mech completely put them off.

 

On to my suggestion. I would offer new players the following loadout:

 

ASSAULT 

 

- all weapons unlocked

 

ITEMS

 

- Repair charge MK3

- Detonator MK1 -or- Scanner MK1

 

Repair kit is pretty standard for survivability. Being able to create your own health orbs is a life saver/prolonger. The detonator is one of the most easily used items in the game and gives a new player something simple and useful. The reason I suggest the scanner is that it helped me greatly when I was learning to play. To be able to see enemy movements and understand where the hot spots were greatly lowered my learning curve. I know its a controversial item in competitive play but for someone just starting out it is a perfect learning tool.

 

INTERNALS

 

- Advanced Repair Kit

- Extractor

- Basic Reconstructor / Basic Armor Fuser

 

The Advanced Repair Kit  and Extractor give you a huge boost in health when you hit yellow orbs. This helps new players understand where they need to be and what their goals are aside from killing enemy players. A Basic Reconstructor can be very useful for speeding up repair after escaping a fight alternatively an Armor Fuser can help keep you alive long enough after a kill to escape.

 

That about wraps it up. Let me know your thoughts with quotes.

 

Thanks

 

Skrill

Edited by Skrill, 26 March 2015 - 11:56 AM.

[StubbornPuppet]

"Oh Capn my Capn..."  I really wish I had the 3 hours required to read all the comments posted before mine before I post.  Sadly, I don't, so I read your OP and a couple of your replies and skimmed the rest.

 

I'm of the thought that the CR-T and the Assault are so identical in almost every way that just swapping them doesn't seem to do anything, very much, except a visual change.  And it's a visual change that also costs you a decision about what to now do with the CR-T? and then all the work you have to do to make the CR-T purchasable.  Nah.  Not worth it.

 

I'll be honest, I loved starting with the CR-T "Fred" chassis.  I hoped that more of the game would be kind of tongue and cheek like that.  If I could have had more options like it, I'd have totally used those right away too.

 

If it has to be something so basic, just switch the CR-T's name, let players start with the "elite" chassis (with options to paint it), make the Fred chassis the "elite" and then give the mech identical stats to the Assault.

 

Another thought: Why not give the beginning player 3 beginning mechs (A, B and C class) and enough HC to equip one of them reasonably?  If you spread out the choices among some of the more widely used mechs with the lowest learning curve, new players will both have more toys to keep them interested and more options to help alleviate the "if I only had a C-class mech, I could survive longer to get the kill" and "my my mech is too slow and this Scout keeps killing me" pains.  Maybe?

 

I've also had another idea that makes me cringe, but only because it would probably temporarily add to the problem of smurfing.  Give players a "buff" in armor and damage that slowly goes away as their rank progresses.  Let's face it, that's what (I think) really spoils the game for new players - getting so rapidly annihilated by more veteran players while they try to accustom themselves to the turn-rate-cap, the mechanics of the weapon systems and the general "feel" of Hawken gameplay.  Again, other than that there is currently already too much smurfing, I'd have no qualms at all with giving an actual new player a bit of a handicap/buff that helps them feel more useful and successful while they get their feet wet.

[AsianJoyKiller]

 

LEAVE FRED ALONE, HES NOT THE PROBLEM!  WE LOVE FRED!

 

It's not power, but the perception of power and the steep perceived paywall that players must over-come on a per mech basis that becomes so overwhelming. Before we can attempt to fix the problem, we must first understand what the key issues are in monetization and balance that drive new players into thinking that which is actually not true.  In many cases, it's merely perception and can be fixed solely through changing how a system is portrayed or monetized.  It's been nearly a year since I've been too involved in HAWKEN, but I'll share what I can remember feeling and thinking and crying in my pillow over not being able to change or fix.  This is just the first entry (hopefully) I will find more time to come in and put in more input later, but this issue was one of the biggest for me, as it was the lifeblood of HAWKEN, yet a failure right out the gate.

 

1.) Monetize All The Things!  

 

The Problem:

 

The first issue HAWKEN has (and arguably its biggest) is an issue of too many monetization systems in one game.   Early on, HAWKEN was supposed to be a simple 15$ XBLA title. However, after the hype train came to town, people gained interest and key choice makers decided that HAWKEN would become the next big contender in the F2P market.    The problem with this was that the systems were designed around a slower player and power progression, something not usually "accepted" in the FPS F2P community.   Instead of saying "Let's rethink our entire systems and build the game off of a singular monetization plan", many small pieces of other succesful F2P games were pieced together into a massive F2P Frankenstined on top of the old Premium systems.   This, sadly, never stopped an throughout the development of HAWKEN, more and more, as monetization continued to fail, new systems were added to continue to attempt to monetize on more and more things.   In the end, while most free to play monetization systems focus on few core elements of monetization, HAWKEN wound up in its end attempting to monetize nearly every one of its systems.

 

* Mechs (Purchase)

* Mechs (Levels!?)

* Items (Per Mech Basis!)

* Internals (Per Mech Basis!)

* Weapons

* Cosmetics

  * Skins

  * Drones

  * Cockpit

  * Thrusters

  * etc...

 

 

Why it's a Problem:

 

 

Simply put, players feel that they're being nickle and dimed as they climb a giant paywall.  They get the impression that money is power, and the deathblow to the monetization system, they see a massive wall of currency that they'll never, ever be able to overcome (in their eyes.)  The major issues:

 

* Mechs:  The idea behind the mech system was that it was to be monetized in teh same vein of League of Legends Champions.   The problem with that was that as they found out very quickly, with a small team of 30, pumping out quality, fun, and unique mechs in 1-3 months was nigh on impossible, especially with Adhesives old lack of focus on content over feature creep and monetization (Read "Priorities").   Mechs must be unlocked on a per mech basis, while not necessarily, starting the player with just Fred to customize and play with feels kinda crappy (and lets face it, a match of 12 Freds also looks dumb as hell and is not very fun.) 

 

* Mech Levels:  The idea of leveling a mech after paying for it, gating their ability to costumize them through it (power progression), and the ability to purchase your way past these (pay-to-progress) were all issues with mech levels. On top of this, having to level your mech to become competitively viable will always leave a bad taste in ones mouth.  This negatively impacts the Mech purchasing system as it makes players less willing to buy new mechs due to the investment of time and money involved in each individual mech.      

 

* Items / Internals: While I love Items and Internals, the fact that they must be purchased on a per mech basis yet again discourages players from purchasing multiple mechs (the core of all other monetization systems in the game!).   If a player must grind hours and hours to get an internal or item for each individual mech, you'll find that players will spend more time on that "one" mech that fits their playstyle perfectly, rather than owning several mechs and playing them more often.   

 

* Weapons: The percieved problem:  New weapons should be, and are, stronger.  The reality: Not necessarily.   This is a problem with the players perception of the system and how its portrayed to the player.

 

 

How do we fix the problem? :

 

I have my own ideas that I will share here, but that does not mean they are necessarily the right fit, and honestly, there could be several systems and ideas that could be. The only core thing we must really discuss is how to fix these core issues to make HAWKEN fun, as well as a viable business model.

 

* Mechs:  Before I left (read - laid off), I championed the complete redesign of the Test Drive system and it was a great step in the right direction .   It allows players to get a taste of new mechs with a full loadout and the ability to purchase that "recommended loadout" with the mech at a discounted cost.  Another consideration that was made was making one of each class, A, B, and C as starting mechs, giving players unique playstyle choices right off the bat, more thought needs to go into a system like that, but its also one I could get behind!

 

* Mech Levels:  Lets be honest, they add nothing to the game except for the perception of power progression and wasted time.   Remove them!

 

* Items / Internals:  Simply put, I would love to see this system move to "Shared Loadouts".   Loadouts that can be saved similar to Rune-Pages in LoL.   Get 3 free loadouts, and purchase additional loadout slots.  Loadouts can be used on any mech, and you only have to purchase an item and internal once to apply it to a loadout and multiple mechs can use the same loadout, or you can spend money and get loadouts for each individual situation and team-comp.   Essentially, buy it once, use it on all.

 

* Weapons - Honestly, I've never had a problem with how it works, but a new UI change could really help sway player perception...

 

 

 

Ok, I think that's enough for now.  What are ya'lls thoughts?

 

I think I said something similar elsewhere, albeit in a much briefer and less detailed manner. I'm in agreeance with this.

 

The last vestiges of vertical progression, especially when tied into monetization (even if it's optional), can easily lead people to the perception of paid power. I think there were always issues too, with some people not understanding that you could use ingame currency and not cash currency to purcahse mechs, etc. That sure didnt help.

 

And just having to grind out things like the same internals/items you always use on every single mech just isn't a lot of fun. I know some people do enjoy progression for progressions sake, but I don't think that's enough of an argument to justify having all the little grindy elements.

 

I think if there's going to be grindy progression, there needs to be a good reason for it beyond "some people like it". In the case of an RPG, it's because you gain a lot of power. But, of course, we (I think I can speak for most of us here) don't want vertical progression in Hawken. We don't want people to have an advantage simply because they've played longer, or started earlier than someone else.

Aside from that, if we really wanted to keep some sort of progression in, it seems like it would be better to tie it to cosmetics. In SMITE, you can grind out god masteries. For your efforts you can get special gold (Mastery 1), Legendary (Mastery 5), and Diamond (Mastery 10) skins.

I get the joy that can come from unlocking stuff, but it shouldn't be tied to mechanical elements of the game that limit how people can play.

[InkaLord]

I'd love to give new players something like this:

 

 

 

 

The idea is that not every newcomer has the same style of playing a FPS so giving them an initial option between offensive and defensive setups would be a good move in my opinion.

Even if aged players know this is more of an ilusion than a real choice per se (assault and CR-T are kind of the same, me thinks), giving new users an initial feeling of control over the game mechanics is a neat little trick to increase player retention and enhance the FTUE a bit in the process.

 

Anyway, just my 2 cents.

 

Long live HAWKEN!

 

PS1: I didn't read all the comments but I believe some people already mentioned having something like this, if so, my apologies.

PS2: The robot image was taken from this site-> Show

PS3: You'll have to excuse me for my primitive English skills, I'm from Peru, we still ride Llamas.

Edited by InkaLord, 26 March 2015 - 12:26 PM.

[Saturnine]

 

LEAVE FRED ALONE, HES NOT THE PROBLEM!  WE LOVE FRED!

 

-Snip-

 

Ok, I think that's enough for now.  What are ya'lls thoughts?

 

 

Yeeessss.

 

Giving players access to one mech of each class right from the start is exactly the thing that should be done. "Oh, I lost because it's faster, too bad I don't have an A class like they do... Oh wait!" or "Oh, I lost because they have so much health, too bad I don't have a C class like they do... hold the phone!" Is exactly the kind of thing newbies need. The option to try other playstyles besides the plain B class middle of the road sustain would do soooo much to improve initial perceptions of the game so that players can actually get a feel for the differences in playstyle between different mechs, and that things aren't always as they appear. It will also go miles to show that mechs that aren't the CRT aren't strictly better, just different.

 

Basically I like a lot of this. The shared loadout thing does seem off to me - could be because I just have no experience with such a setup. Keeping a consistent layout to share between mechs seems like it ignores the desire to have different kinds of setups for different mechs, though having such a system would probably be worth it just for the convenience - but then if you are limited in your choices by the number of layour slots you have, that could turn right back around and be a pain in the ass. Though thinking more about it so long as the initial amount of loadout slots is high, even that wouldn't be a problem since the people who would be using that many slots would likely have the currency to buy the extra slots. 

 

(I just had a conversation with myself. Welp.)

 

Anyway, to properly directly address Josh's questions earlier (besides throwing my hat in in saying that Vana's ideas look pretty solid):

 

1) We need CRT. I like Ash's idea of giving them the option to use the elite skin from the start. Vana's point about a match full of CRTs being stupid is also salient, and ties into giving newbies one of each class to start. Perhaps Infiltrator/CRT/Brawler to give examples of three differing playstyles, as well as show off the strengths of each class. (Infiltrator isn't the fastest, but newbies will place undue importance on the ability to cloak, and it gives an indirect fire option, Brawler is all about dat burst, and has no treble with taking damage.)

 

2) I am not in a position where I can check what the available options are right now, but going off my terrible memory; deflectors, whatever the internal is that gives added health after death, and.. the internal that heals you while you're out of combat. If you go with one of each class, (which I really think you should) then I would suggest slightly different loadouts per class, built to show off strengths and shore up newbie weaknesses. Armor fusor would definitely belong on the C class, for example, unless for some reason you went with Vanguard...

 

3) Coolio can do.

 

Edit: Also, to the guy above me: Your English is great, no need to stress. :)

Edited by Saturnine, 26 March 2015 - 01:26 PM.

[bacon_avenger]

Composite Armor - Give them a leg-up if they aren't getting the kills with a little boost in defense
Deflectors - Nobody likes getting killed when on the move by something they didn't see. Deflectors give them a little boost until they know where to look for threats.
Extractor - Keep them in the fray longer with less down-time while also teaching them that glowing orbs are good and you should stand by them.

I do like that the list you presented is almost identical to mine.
 

-Beefy starter internals that reduce in effectiveness as they gain rank. Gives newbies a leg-up but also doesn't turn their first Assault mech into a free powerhouse. Would also encourage testing new internals as the starter ones wear out.

Yep, I remember those internals (I can't recall the exact names, but I think one was called brand new cage or some such), and from what I've been told, reimplementing them would require quite a bit of code reworking, which is a shame as I think they would be perfect.

Edited by bacon_avenger, 26 March 2015 - 01:36 PM.

[fkrIII]

1.  the thing is no matter what boost you give to a new player they are not going to come close to being a veterans equal.  this is not a reasonable goal.  

 

2.  what we want is for them to get the quickest understanding of what the game has to offer.  everybody already understands how the weapons are differentiated for the most part (all fps follow a basic weapon type).

 

3.  so just give them a fully upgraded and all internals CRT and from there they will be able to use the trial mechs to understand the other weapons/mechs and this leaves everything open to the player and they will best be able to spend their hard earned MC.

[OmegaNull]

1.  the thing is no matter what boost you give to a new player they are not going to come close to being a veterans equal.  this is not a reasonable goal.  

Obviously, but that is not the point. Here, we are trying to craft somethign that will be both welcoming and less restrictive to a new player as far as content goes. 

 

2.  what we want is for them to get the quickest understanding of what the game has to offer.  everybody already understands how the weapons are differentiated for the most part (all fps follow a basic weapon type).

That is definitely something that needs to be done and should  will get done at some point. I remember first joining and kinda knew what I was doing. It did take a lot of work and forum/youtube hunt to find more information and understand of systems at first though. 

3.  so just give them a fully upgraded and all internals CRT and from there they will be able to use the trial mechs to understand the other weapons/mechs and this leaves everything open to the player and they will best be able to spend their hard earned MC.

 

Agreed. Things are too restrictive and has a "pay wall" almost at this point. 

[tatonikfull]

I personally think all that is a quite good idea... I invited my friends to play hawken and yes, the complaint about dying so fast and left..... so maybe in the future we could bring the old hawken style back, it was a bit slower and more mechanical, the sounds were way better than now, (as to me and other players) and right now its too futuristic and fast..... and an option to change ur callsign would be nice too (hate mine lol)

 

 

................................I remember there was a chart when u could choose what to improve depending on your level: Damage, Resistance, Movility.... that was cool

Edited by tatonikfull, 26 March 2015 - 01:57 PM.

[Invader_guy]

I think that the CRT should stay where it is, if you don't like it then play 'till you've got enough money and buy one you like, I really can't see why anyone would want it changed, in almost every game where you unlock things you must play in order to get good/cool things, it anything maybe there should be 2 more starter mechs to choose, (maybe one from each class? Berseker,CRT and Rocketeer perhaps?)

[Brawler_Yukon]

As a clarification (maybe I should actually add this as an edit to the OP), the CR-T would stick around for sure.  Just add it as a mech you can purchase, just like the Assault is now.  They're effectively just switching positions.

 

Having the CR-T with a different chassis would probably work pretty well.  I'm a little hesitant to just insta-make-something-that-was-earned-or-purchased-with-cash-now-free-to-all-new-players.  Granted, in one sense, that'd be happening with the mech change itself, but it's a little different.  That's really the only thing that's making me prefer the Assault mech approach.

 

That being said, I'd like to actually try a few different things for new users.  So, hey, maybe the next trial should be the elite chassis for the CR-T.

The problem we have isn't that the CR-T is subconsciously making people not want to play, it's that you're starting them of with a B class instead of A, which is what they need to start with so they learn dodging and moving. What needs to happen is for there to be an A class as default instead of B, my suggestion would be to copy paste the berserker, give it the assault rifle, and swap its ability for the heat depletion of the CRT, that way they're in essentially the same mech, but faster and weaker and they can pick up the skills to play faster and more easily. Maybe it's just me though. But I do know that replacing the CRT with the Assault wouldn't fix or change anything, people don't care what the mech looks like they care that they're able to actually play without getting stomped immediately, switching the Assault for the CRT wouldn't fix that, it would just make it look different.

[eth0]

I kinda like the sound of rotating internals.

 

[Evacerberus]

I feel we should differentiate the CRT from the Assault a tad more; Making it more bulky, adding more speed to the Assault, ect. I feel it's odd giving them them the mech with a G2, it leaves almost NO reason for most to purchase or obtain a CRT. Leading to my next point, I feel we should make a separate server or channel for people under a certain level/MMR. While I realize some of the vets will make new accounts for twinking, it would help mitigate the issue some, as what this guy said is completely true;

1.  the thing is no matter what boost you give to a new player they are not going to come close to being a veterans equal.  this is not a reasonable goal.  

 

2.  what we want is for them to get the quickest understanding of what the game has to offer.  everybody already understands how the weapons are differentiated for the most part (all fps follow a basic weapon type).

 

3.  so just give them a fully upgraded and all internals CRT and from there they will be able to use the trial mechs to understand the other weapons/mechs and this leaves everything open to the player and they will best be able to spend their hard earned MC.

 

Another great option I feel is what's been mentioned earlier, and that's making a better tutorial. There's a huge difference between Hawken and your average FPS, and while I understood it being a mech simulator when I started, a lot of people didn't. I know a lot of my friends I tried getting to play didn't fully understand the dodge, boosting, or overheat mechanics for a while, which turned a lot of them off. Another thing is add different classes into the tutorial, let them practice with one A-class, one B-class, and on C-class mech, so they understand what they are buying/upgrading to. 

[teeth_03]

Having not read the whole thread...

I suggest keeping Fred as is, then once they hit a certain pilot level, give them their 1st purchasable mech for free.

Oh, and while we are talking, can we lower the time between matches? :)

[Ansob]

A big part of why I and several other people I know got into Hawken (and purchased the big mech pack when it launched on Steam) is the game's aesthetics, and the CRT is basically an Assault that arbitrarily looks like ass, so making the Assault the starting mech is a fantastic idea.

 

Giving new players internals is also great. I'd say something like Advanced Repair Kit, Composite Armor (a useful kind of "death streak" internal for new players) and an Extractor (to help promote teamwork on objective-oriented maps); IIRC that's full slots.

[Jakyll]

I think that giving just another mech to new players won't be that big of an impact, either.

 

In my opinion you could stick with the CRT but maybe grant it with several (all ?) internals/items unlocked so new players get to know all that stuff.

At the beginnig from the mere look of those icons I didn't have a clue how those items would look like or behave ingame. That's why I was very hesitant to by any items until I payed attention to which ones everyone else (that killed me ^^) was using.

 

So I think it would be a good approach to:

 - either make the items cheaper (or for free if bought for the CRT or whatever starting mech you decide on)

 - or to explain them better (maybe in tutorials)

 - or add some kind of shopping list which items you would recommend to start with

 - to enable refunds for 2hours (match time) in case the item doesn't work like expected for the player

 

All in all ENCOURAGE more EXPERIMENTING for new players and don't punish them (with long grinding) for a decision they made early on, when they had no clue of the consequences.

 

And last but not least redesign the interface, please!

I got used to it by now, but why do the ingame text and pictures (shop, garage, mech/weapon stats) have to be this small? It's not comfortable to read and it seems kinda lost on a large monitor

Edited by Jakyll, 27 March 2015 - 11:33 AM.

[sabrehawk90]

I also like giving them a C-class and A-class for free or for a GREATLY reduced price to start with, too. Brawler seems like a good choice for a C-class. For A-class, maybe not Berzerker because since it's loadout is so similar to CRT and Assault it doesn't really offer much of a different playstyle. My choice would be Infiltrator because it still has the sustained hitscan primary as default that new players already know, but offers a different style of play.

 

I have one major objection to this post. Definitely not infil. I have a feeling it's just a little too different, and that its learning curve might be too high for rookies. Berserker seems to be a good introduction to important skills of a pilot of A-Class mechs, as it exhibits the need to move around a lot while still maintaining direct combat ability. Though my personal bias as a Berserker main says it's a shame to have it become a newbie starter mech...

 

I'm gonna go with the idea someone else mentioned about keeping the CRT (Just change the name and skin or something if it's giving too much of a "household appliance w/ guns" feel and leave the TV skin as a purchasable cosmetics option or something. Only problem would be newbies in the relative future being confused as to what us beta players mean by "CRT" or "The TV head", but that's a very small problem that's similar to the knowledge of the Mobi chassis) as the starter, but then once hitting a certain level (Perhaps somewhere from level 5-10 is a good idea? We want it to be early enough to give them the choice before they decide to actually buy another mech, but late enough that they learn the basic ropes of the game) you get a rookie-friendly A Class mech and C Class mech to help get newer players to transition more smoothly into the other classes, or have a general idea of what they want outside of using the test drives.

 

Oh, and some other ideas from other people too, but I'll refrain from restating things.

Edited by sabrehawk90, 26 March 2015 - 04:22 PM.

[teeth_03]

 

LEAVE FRED ALONE, HES NOT THE PROBLEM!  WE LOVE FRED!

 

It's not power, but the perception of power and the steep perceived paywall that players must over-come on a per mech basis that becomes so overwhelming. Before we can attempt to fix the problem, we must first understand what the key issues are in monetization and balance that drive new players into thinking that which is actually not true.  In many cases, it's merely perception and can be fixed solely through changing how a system is portrayed or monetized.  It's been nearly a year since I've been too involved in HAWKEN, but I'll share what I can remember feeling and thinking and crying in my pillow over not being able to change or fix.  This is just the first entry (hopefully) I will find more time to come in and put in more input later, but this issue was one of the biggest for me, as it was the lifeblood of HAWKEN, yet a failure right out the gate.

 

1.) Monetize All The Things!  

 

The Problem:

 

The first issue HAWKEN has (and arguably its biggest) is an issue of too many monetization systems in one game.   Early on, HAWKEN was supposed to be a simple 15$ XBLA title. However, after the hype train came to town, people gained interest and key choice makers decided that HAWKEN would become the next big contender in the F2P market.    The problem with this was that the systems were designed around a slower player and power progression, something not usually "accepted" in the FPS F2P community.   Instead of saying "Let's rethink our entire systems and build the game off of a singular monetization plan", many small pieces of other succesful F2P games were pieced together into a massive F2P Frankenstined on top of the old Premium systems.   This, sadly, never stopped an throughout the development of HAWKEN, more and more, as monetization continued to fail, new systems were added to continue to attempt to monetize on more and more things.   In the end, while most free to play monetization systems focus on few core elements of monetization, HAWKEN wound up in its end attempting to monetize nearly every one of its systems.

 

* Mechs (Purchase)

* Mechs (Levels!?)

* Items (Per Mech Basis!)

* Internals (Per Mech Basis!)

* Weapons

* Cosmetics

  * Skins

  * Drones

  * Cockpit

  * Thrusters

  * etc...

 

 

Why it's a Problem:

 

 

Simply put, players feel that they're being nickle and dimed as they climb a giant paywall.  They get the impression that money is power, and the deathblow to the monetization system, they see a massive wall of currency that they'll never, ever be able to overcome (in their eyes.)  The major issues:

 

* Mechs:  The idea behind the mech system was that it was to be monetized in teh same vein of League of Legends Champions.   The problem with that was that as they found out very quickly, with a small team of 30, pumping out quality, fun, and unique mechs in 1-3 months was nigh on impossible, especially with Adhesives old lack of focus on content over feature creep and monetization (Read "Priorities").   Mechs must be unlocked on a per mech basis, while not necessarily, starting the player with just Fred to customize and play with feels kinda crappy (and lets face it, a match of 12 Freds also looks dumb as hell and is not very fun.) 

 

* Mech Levels:  The idea of leveling a mech after paying for it, gating their ability to costumize them through it (power progression), and the ability to purchase your way past these (pay-to-progress) were all issues with mech levels. On top of this, having to level your mech to become competitively viable will always leave a bad taste in ones mouth.  This negatively impacts the Mech purchasing system as it makes players less willing to buy new mechs due to the investment of time and money involved in each individual mech.      

 

* Items / Internals: While I love Items and Internals, the fact that they must be purchased on a per mech basis yet again discourages players from purchasing multiple mechs (the core of all other monetization systems in the game!).   If a player must grind hours and hours to get an internal or item for each individual mech, you'll find that players will spend more time on that "one" mech that fits their playstyle perfectly, rather than owning several mechs and playing them more often.   

 

* Weapons: The percieved problem:  New weapons should be, and are, stronger.  The reality: Not necessarily.   This is a problem with the players perception of the system and how its portrayed to the player.

 

 

How do we fix the problem? :

 

I have my own ideas that I will share here, but that does not mean they are necessarily the right fit, and honestly, there could be several systems and ideas that could be. The only core thing we must really discuss is how to fix these core issues to make HAWKEN fun, as well as a viable business model.

 

* Mechs:  Before I left (read - laid off), I championed the complete redesign of the Test Drive system and it was a great step in the right direction .   It allows players to get a taste of new mechs with a full loadout and the ability to purchase that "recommended loadout" with the mech at a discounted cost.  Another consideration that was made was making one of each class, A, B, and C as starting mechs, giving players unique playstyle choices right off the bat, more thought needs to go into a system like that, but its also one I could get behind!

 

* Mech Levels:  Lets be honest, they add nothing to the game except for the perception of power progression and wasted time.   Remove them!

 

* Items / Internals:  Simply put, I would love to see this system move to "Shared Loadouts".   Loadouts that can be saved similar to Rune-Pages in LoL.   Get 3 free loadouts, and purchase additional loadout slots.  Loadouts can be used on any mech, and you only have to purchase an item and internal once to apply it to a loadout and multiple mechs can use the same loadout, or you can spend money and get loadouts for each individual situation and team-comp.   Essentially, buy it once, use it on all.

 

* Weapons - Honestly, I've never had a problem with how it works, but a new UI change could really help sway player perception...

 

 

 

Ok, I think that's enough for now.  What are ya'lls thoughts?

 

 

I like this, all of this.

 

The mech levels mean you need to the grind the fuzzy bunny out of mechs before you can buy the other 2 weapons. Ginding and Playing are two different things, I'd rather this be a game where players get to have fun playing instead of grinding themselves to death.

 

Items and Internals definitely need to not be tied to each mech. Make them global options please.

[Teljaxx the Unintentional]

Gone are the days when all you would see across Illal were roving bands of murderous TVs on legs. Sigh... Those were the good old days.

 

I always thought that the CR-T was the perfect newbie mech. It looks simple, it has an easy to learn weapon setup, and can be quite powerful once you learn how to use it. But, it is also way too similar to the Assault. There should be a bigger difference between them, with the CR-T being more newbie friendly than the Assault. Kind of like the CR-T is the hastily cobbled together scrap mech that all new pilots get, and the Assault is a purpose built war machine. So the CR-T is durable and easy to repair, but less maneuverable. And the Assault is more maneuverable, but not as durable.

 

As a more long term answer, on the old forums many people had suggested making multiple versions of the TOW to add more variety between all the mechs that use it, and make balancing them easier. This could work for the Assault and CR-T, with the CR-T having the "Light TOW" that fires faster but does less damage per shot, and the Assault having the "Heavy TOW" which is slow but powerful. The Light TOW would be more newbie friendly, because missing a shot would be less punishing.

 

As for the CR-T's looks, giving new players the choice of using both the elite and standard chassis from the start would help those players that do not like Fred's TV face and want omething that looks more like a mech. And maybe some special bonus to HC, either as a CR-T specific internal, or as a built in mech special ability, that lasts until you buy your first mech, or is only active if you only own the CR-T could also help. That way new players would not feel like they were trapped in just one mech for so long. In almost any game like this, getting your first new character always seems to take the longest, and can stop many new players from getting into it. So helping them get past that first hurdle faster would help keep more players playing.

 

Otherwise, I do not remember which specific internals do what right now, but anything that adds to health or healing would help new players survive better until they learn how to take full advantage of the games maneuvers. And a detonator and either a shield or repair orb as the items.

[SectionZ]

Add me to the crowd who loves Fred, even if I did get much better scores with my Assault (I helps that I also prefer the assaut rifle over SMG on medium mechs).

Now if you wanted to take a lesson from Fred, it would be to make it so he isn't the ONLY Mech to get physical alterations for his Elite unlock parts.  Everything else, all they unlocked were glorified camo skins.  I was so dissapointed to discover this after the feeling of upgrading my newbie mech from TV junk heap to a sleek armored tuna can.

 

It's been ages since I've played this.  But I think the only time I thought "Yeah, that feels a little bit pay to win even though I can unlock it... later"  was the fact so many parts were level gated, PARTICULARLY the Air Dodge part.

My KDR flipped from negative 2, to +2 in one playsession and I got my first quintuple domination with my Berserker once I reached a high enough level to be allowed the privilege or paying for the air dodge part with anything but REAL MONEY.

 

http://cloud-4.steam...E811D17450B8C7/

Of course, even in the middle of such matches most players inside them would swear up and down that "Air Compressor isn't so great, only BAD players can't 360 noscope them out of the air with their eyes closed" as you are running around with a 21/3 KDR and 4/5 of their team can't hold up to this claim.

Unlocking mechs seemd okay, it took about the time to reach rank 5 to earn enough points to buy a new mech for me multiple times... It was the WEAPONS, even after some price cuts, that were the real killer in "Oh god, why does this cost so much?".  Some old dust collecting notes, When I hit rank 5 in several mechs I had earned around 15k, and by rank 6 around 19k. 

 

Then you asked yourself back when I was still playing "Gee, do I want to spend almost 13k to get a new robot, or spend just as much to unlock some weapons... NEW ROBOT"

[KillerMariosCY]

Make the elite skin available for the CR-T mech.
Change the special ability for CR-T to damage absorb for new players that get into trouble easily.

[SciFiFanatic]

I don't agree with Tickle's post. I don't think you need to baby a new player with a CRT mech.  The noob stats is whatever.  Give them a full mech that they can use in all levels of play.

 

If you need to baby them, I don't think a mech will fix it.  I think a bigger problem is the tutorial.  I've been talking to a lot of new streamers online and they don't have a clue how everything works.

 

I've been wanting the option of players being able to pick out ANY mech they want at like level 10 or something.  Mechs use to be unlockable.

^^ This

 

Here are my $0.02... 

 

As someone who was introduced to Hawken pretty late in the game; giving out the Assault WITH an internal loadout will have a GREAT emotional impact on the brand new player. Forget that the CR-T "could" be a good mech. It doesn't look the part, so it simply isn't the part.

 

Sure the newbie will not really know what to do with all the shiny bits, but at minimum he/she will actually FEEL competitive and/or realize that losing might be due to skill and not some "p2w beat-down"

 

In APB Reloaded, even though I realize some will not think that is a good comparison, the APB team switched the starting gun to the NTEC, which arguably is the best or second best gun in the game (up from some silly crappy gun the game used to start you off with), and a much better starting car. Making the new player "more" competitive, makes for a much better game AND gives the game a chance to grow.

 

Nobody wants to recommend a game they felt "dorky" playing. Give them a "perceived" cooler mech (reality be damned), and some may be more likely to recommend the game. Even if you suck, at least you look good sucking. AND you would be harder to kill with a decent load-out. So you have "some" chance to kill "something."

 

That's the Newbie 2 cents.... and it seems what this game REALLY needs is NEWBIES. Even if it means some vets will have to play nice for a while and might see newbies with an "easier upgrade" path as a result. But hey, that gives the vets the ability to say things like "I remember when I came out of Beta, man oh man, back in the day they gave us a TELEVISION to fight with - not like today's kids that get to fight with a shiny Assault"!~

 

And it goes back to the good little video from page 1, about giving NEWBIES a "NOOB TUBE"

Edited by SciFiFanatic, 26 March 2015 - 06:39 PM.

[SmaCkexe]

Fred the TV will be sorely missed!

 

Check out my old Fred the TV mech Tutorial!  This was when the game was its best!

 

Edited by SmaCkexe, 26 March 2015 - 07:31 PM.

[Silverfire]

Fred is good as is, but I do like the idea of either noobie internals that decrease in effectiveness over time or just flat out a fully equipped CRT with internals and/or items.  I also like an internal rotation trial that cycles through 1-2 internals per week, just like the Test Drives for the mechs, which really ought to stay.  Make it crystal clear that as you level Fred up, you unlock really cool parts!

 

However, mechs will not solve Hawken's learning curve at all. As stated previously by multiple people, it doesn't really matter if noobs have the CRT or the Assault, they will still do poorly unless they know how to play.  Internals and items will not make or break a player.  They certainly help a bit, but at the end of the day, it is skill that triumphs over all.  

 

So then we must ask ourselves - how can the game foster skill in players?

 

1. A better tutorial - stated beforehand here and in other places, but I will say it again.  The tutorial kinda sucks.  It teaches you the basics of Hawken, which is an FPS, but those controls are pretty standard across all FPSes with a few unique quirks that players don't even pick up on.  A more in-depth tutorial is required to get players on the right foot. It needs to be clear, understandable, not boring, and informative in a way that teaches players about Hawken's quirks, like r and L dodging, etc.

 

2. More information everywhere - Yes, we all know where to find information for certain stuff or we know it already, but new players don't, so they make uneducated purchases and suffer the consequences of their ignorance.  Information is in the game, however it is often buried under other stuff.  For example, the little tips/tricks in the garage while waiting for a match actually has useful stuff, but it is not aesthetically eye-catching.  Throw Laila in there! I'm sure many a pilot would sneak a peek at her and notice some helpful information.  Make information clear and accessible to everyone in a simple way.  Make in-game descriptions of items and internals concise, yet informative.  And not confusing.  I can't count how many people have misinterpreted the marketplace and pricing and how the economy worked.  Better yet, upon a purchase of any new mech, perhaps a short "no more than one minute" video clip could be inserted after purchase quickly going over each mech's primaries (default and unlockable), secondary, special secondary weapon function, and ability (all while displaying the mech's elite skin to give players an idea of what the final product should look like).  Point players towards the official forums to get even more knowledge about the game.

 

3. Get rid of P2W notions - the perceived power in this game is real.  While there are no real gains to ranking a mech up, people actually believe that.  They think that the "prestige" weapon is the very best, when sometimes it is not. There is misdirection all around here pushing players to buy, buy, buy.  While it certainly isn't a bad thing for players to buy stuff, we want them buying stuff for the right reason, meaning not having new players believe that buying stuff will buy them the wins because we all know that's false.

 

4. Community event promotion - nothing quite like the veterans showing the noobies the ropes.  Promote all in-game events, especially community ones to get everyone involved.  Most, if not all the veterans in this game would be more than happy to help a new player out, so let us! Get everyone involved, people are trained, people are happy, people are having fun, and it will be all unicorns, rainbows, and cupcakes.

 

 

 

 

That's what has come to mind for now, perhaps I'll think of more stuff for later.

Edited by Silverfire, 26 March 2015 - 06:58 PM.

[LiquidCocaine]

As a relitivly New player (5 days) I find that the learning curve is hardest in the first two days. I decided to put some money into the games and buy the mechs that's where on sale, and then I asked around for what the best mech was.

I ended up getting the assault and getting it a bunch of internals and items. And I tell Ya since then I have been having a Hell of a lot,more fun.

If you could make it so players under lvl 15 where always together and you couldn't be able to join the main pool of serservers, this could help them keep playing with their own skill lvls. This Would give plenty of time for them to learn how to play all while avoiding getting stomped.

Another thing that could be done is while fighting have advice pop ups like when a missile is coming near you or someone is attacking from,behind have a icon show up on the screen that says to shift + left or telling you now would be the best time to use your boost.

Also having recommended setups for mechs as far as internAl and items go could really really help out New players. If it wasn't for a few nice people in the teamspeak I would still be lost on what internals I should use.

Another thing would be helpful is eexplain that some guns have the middle mouse button feature. I played reaper for so long and had no idea it could zoom in...or that raiders secondary had two modes. It just isn't clear in the tutorial .

Aside from all the struggles the first couple days gave me. I did a lot of reading and researching on how to play ccertain mechs and what I should work on to be better. And now I feel that with lots of training and just doing matches And getting my skill up I will be fine.

My current MMR is 1600 now and still climbing. So give these New players assualt mech and a good loadout as well as some HC and Some camo skin and I am sure they will be happier to play.

[AsianJoyKiller]

Another thing that could be done is while fighting have advice pop ups like when a missile is coming near you or someone is attacking from,behind have a icon show up on the screen that says to shift + left or telling you now would be the best time to use your boost.

While this may be okay in a PvE mode or a tutorial, this is very bad for PvP matches. This gives a serious advantage, one so powerful that it is a feature often built into 3rd party cheating programs.

[dracosummoner]

I kind of wouldn't mind seeing the Time-To-Kill increased across the board and reverted to something close to what it used to be.  Sure, the game wasn't as fast-paced then, but I think that was kind of the beauty of it -- when I was new, one thing I liked about Hawken was that one-hit kills were pretty much unheard of (unlike in, say, something like Battlefield).

 

So ... maybe give every mech a few hundred points of extra armor?  It's rare I see a team deathmatch run the risk of having the clock expire anyway.  I do like the idea of giving new players some helpful items and maybe even a few mech choices (as in more than one).  Likewise, bringing back the free-trial periods for mechs would, hopefully, also help new players out, since not every player has access to every single mech in the game.

[LiquidCocaine]

While this may be okay in a PvE mode or a tutorial, this is very bad for PvP matches. This gives a serious advantage, one so powerful that it is a feature often built into 3rd party cheating programs.

You would lose this feature after you get out of the "newby" area, So everyone will have it as same time, and lose it after you outgrow the newby area

[WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW]

I have a really hard time understanding the CRT Fred defense posts. The change would literally not affect anyone who is defending it and at the same time, clearly capnjosh is not suggesting total removal. I for one was thoroughly frustrated by playing in a silly-looking mech while also being forced to play in a class I didn't want to play. If new players were given a choice between receiving Assault and CRT for free, I guess that could solve the CRT defence issue, so I support this.

 

However, it remains that Hawken presently forces a large number of things on new players that amount to a highly negative experience. Other suggestions like 24-hour period refund are also great ideas. I would like to also mention "renting-into-buying" lease schemes.

 

Separately:

 

When people say LoL or Hawken are not P2W, and the people saying it and laughing are the same people who spent hundreds of hours and/or money (regardless if they only purchased cosmetics), people are only ever going to alienate new players. This alienation happened constantly and people argued to excuse MTR and ADH for their terrible money schemes because "they had to make money somehow" -- well then why not any other method that does not come off as a greedy money-grab from just-another-F2P?

 

I've argued in the past that Hawken is/was at this point, without any doubt, effectively pay-for-power. Vana's post pretty much nails everything I hate about Hawken in its present state, nothing more or less. It's a lovely game. I love Hawken. It has decent if imperfect balance (new players won't notice a difference here), but nothing excuses the facts that it got greedy and overstepped a lot of boundaries (which only new players will notice and to a degree different from all the vets who have stayed so long that of course pricing and currency problems don't matter) and did a terrible job at retaining players, for reasons that I think Vana's post describes fairly comprehensively.

Edited by WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW, 26 March 2015 - 09:27 PM.

[Yforty]

I am very glad that HAWKEN is not left alone and hope that your team will treat him with the same warmth, as his small but dedicated community. Let me share a couple of thoughts that came into my mind.

 

First of all, CR-T is totally fine. It's like your first car - it must be a crap Just give a serious XP/Credits booster for first 20-50 games to new players, so they will be able to buy a couple of new mechs with a full pack of internals and they will have a bunch of stuff to 'feel' the game.

 

Next. For example, when a new player is starting a battle he is confused by how he can win a deathmatch when he was connected in a middle of a game where most players already have dozens of frags? It's just no fair. You know what to do.

 

And the last one. Server browser with ability to choose a game mode and F2P is a bad combination. For example, my friends who tried HAWKEN in it's current state said, that this discourages them to try another game mode because most of players are playing just a couple of popular modes (you should have a statistics). Make it simple - press 'Play', choose region, and right into the random battle! You know, all those server browsers are a 1990s stuff. And the players will not be too separated.

 

As for the learning curve, HAWKEN needs more detailed training, and it would be nice to prepare a dozen of ingame videos that would demonstrate the intricacies of game mechanics, common techniques of warfare, etc.

 

About monetization. I think that now it is the main subject of discussion in your office. In my oppinion the most effective monetization aspects for F2P MOBA are boosters/premium-subscription and XP conversion, but for this it needs a constant influx of new mechs and other new cool stuff. Of course you should also make unique paid mechs with built-in XP/credits boosters and tons of paid items that change the visual appearance of mechs. Furthermore, it is possible further to increase the number of levels for Pilot, say up to 50, (or make it harder to achieve the existent) and provide the ability to buy certain advanced components (Mk.2, Mk.3, etc.) with ingame cash only when the matching level is reached. Then the question of buying booster packs will definitely be relevant. You know, the good old grind, but don't go crazy Just do not forget to dilute all of this by making a free content in the form of new maps and new game modes on regular basis.

Edited by Yforty, 26 March 2015 - 09:55 PM.

[GondabBadong]

Really, while I am new, I feel as if I can compete.  Maybe it's just because it's really fun to play as a Reaper and shoot someone over and over again at short range and manage to kill mechs that aren't specialized to be mid-mid long ranged.  I have had experience with other team based shooters though, and besides being in a mech this wasn't hard to get into once I worked out dashing.

[Anichkov3]

I find it difficult to perceive all that here already written. So many have written. Yes, CR-T brings a smile to the face for beginners but not disgust. I would like to pay attention not to the initial mech for beginners. You need to look at the problem comprehensively.

What necessary newbie when he comes to the game?

 

 

1) Give the opportunity to choose their own language before training begins. To do this, the game should be correct localization into other languages. You to - English speaking and playing in the English language does not understand the importance of this problem. You do not even know about that game localization is not were corrected with the release of new patches for a year. And the game is quite changed dramatically during this time. You do not even know that in all other locales (except English) in the training said that dodge of fuel consumption ...

 

 

2) Initial training should be mandatory and should exclude the possibility of getting out of it (which is when you first enter the novice to the game) - is now you can get out of the training and not finish it.

 

3) Need to expand the initial training. Need to on a mandatory basis after passing basic training add:

- A training match against bots TDM

- A training match "destruction bots" (15 waves)

 

4) In matchmaking to make small changes. When searching for a match, priority should be given to how to closely match your MMR and MMR average server (now the priority is given to the new match - that is, if the players in the lobby that you add to them). 

 

5) And of course you need to lower the starting MMR beginners to 1100...1300 MMR. I think we can all agree that now when the newcomer (1500 MMR) in a match a player can go from 1900 MMR - nothing pleasant newcomer will not experience.

Edited by Anichkov3, 27 March 2015 - 05:34 AM.

[LEmental]

 

5) And of course you need to lower the starting MMR beginners to 1100...1300 MMR. I think we can all agree that now when the newcomer (1500 MMR) in a match a player can go from 1900 MMR - nothing pleasant newcomer will not experience.

Starting MMR is 1250

[MomOw]

About "FrankenFred" I once had the idea that it could load all the different type of primary weapons.

Keep the AR as it's base primary weapon but change it's alternate weapon to one of the average shotguns.

[Anichkov3]

Starting MMR is 1250

omg, indeed (before it was in 1500)

[capnjosh]

Very useful comments - confirming and challenging ones.  I like it.

 

I'll be working on the implementation now.  The specific approach will heavily depend on the tools and any remaining bugs.

 

I expect the implementation will be either swap out the Assault and CR-T as the starting mech OR make the default chassis be the elite chassis for the CR-T.  Exactly when this will go in, it may be Monday, but I'll try for sooner (there have been many more meetings this week than I had expected.... lots of partially-finished projects are coming to light and each one takes some time to digest).

 

Again, thank-you for the feedback. I appreciate the level of effort and though expressed.

 

-capnjosh