213 replies to this topic

[J0N3K4T]

Please don't take my Fred away!  I'm making the long grind to my free camo with him!  I definitely think that the cost of internals and equipment needs to be addressed.  I have found it very difficult as a new(ish) player to unlock more mechs while trying to experiment with internals and equipment.

[Scootaloo_009]

I think the problem is FRED is just an inferior assault, which makes it worthless. It needs something to make it special. As I already suggested, it should get a new ability that boosts survivability. Maybe an ability that heals the mech a bit (up to maybe 25% of max armor), or one that gives it a damage boost like what the sharpshooter has, or one that gives it increased speed for a couple seconds, maybe on par with a class A mech.

[Brawler_Yukon]

Please don't take my Fred away!  I'm making the long grind to my free camo with him!  I definitely think that the cost of internals and equipment needs to be addressed.  I have found it very difficult as a new(ish) player to unlock more mechs while trying to experiment with internals and equipment.

If you actually read what they posted you'd know they aren't taking Fred away they're wanting to swap him and the assault for when you get them. But doing that won't fix the issue they're having, but whatever, lots of ideas have been stated, and they're going to go with the one they had anyways.

[m3talc0re]

Very useful comments - confirming and challenging ones.  I like it.

 

I'll be working on the implementation now.  The specific approach will heavily depend on the tools and any remaining bugs.

 

I expect the implementation will be either swap out the Assault and CR-T as the starting mech OR make the default chassis be the elite chassis for the CR-T.  Exactly when this will go in, it may be Monday, but I'll try for sooner (there have been many more meetings this week than I had expected.... lots of partially-finished projects are coming to light and each one takes some time to digest).

 

Again, thank-you for the feedback. I appreciate the level of effort and though expressed.

 

-capnjosh

When you make it have the elite chassis, it is just going to be model right? Or will you fix it so the elite parts can be skinned and painted? 

[EchoJester]

Actually i had a brilliant idea inspired by some of these posts basically when a new player starts up for the first time make them choose front line,suppression or range combat then depending on there choice give them a mech based on that to start with or have the training take u through each type and then make the choice maybe even make lesser versions of such mechs like a recruit long range a recruit A class only with cooling abilities.

[BIsmuthZornisse]

Would it make sense to have the Recruit's unlockable weapons basically introduce the player to other weapon types of the game?

For example, the first unlockable weapon could be the mini"flak" to represent shotgun-type weapons; the second weapon could be some kind of rapidfiring grenade launcher, but the grenades don't bounce and instead explode on contact with any surface. That weapon would introduce the player to weapons with arcing projectiles.

I don't know if rapid-fire weapons are actually newbie-friendly, but I, as a newbie to fps as a whole, tend to get the best results with them.

[Hyginos]

Would it make sense to have the Recruit's unlockable weapons basically introduce the player to other weapon types of the game?

For example, the first unlockable weapon could be the mini"flak" to represent shotgun-type weapons; the second weapon could be some kind of rapidfiring grenade launcher, but the grenades don't bounce and instead explode on contact with any surface. That weapon would introduce the player to weapons with arcing projectiles.

I don't know if rapid-fire weapons are actually newbie-friendly, but I, as a newbie to fps as a whole, tend to get the best results with them.

 

I think the weapons available to the salt/fred right now are fine, though arguably the fred should start with SMC and assault should start with AR. Having both a generic hitscan bullet hose and a burst weapon with remote detonation is great for a starting mech.

 

Also both miniflak and revgl could see some balance issues if given to a mech with coolant flush.

[BIsmuthZornisse]

I think the weapons available to the salt/fred right now are fine, though arguably the fred should start with SMC and assault should start with AR. Having both a generic hitscan bullet hose and a burst weapon with remote detonation is great for a starting mech.

 

Also both miniflak and revgl could see some balance issues if given to a mech with coolant flush.

 

well, ideally, each mech would have unique versions of weapons, so that you can, in this case, adjust values of the mini"flak" and NotRev-GL to make them work with the Recruit without affecting the weapons of other mechs. Isn't that the reason the g2 assault and raider have xt versions of the g1's weapons?

[Jakyll]

I share the opinion, that it would be nice for new players to have 3 mechs to chose from.

Be it A/B/C-class or close/mid/long preferred combat range; it would feel similar to Pok�mon where you could also chose the one to start with.

 

This way you don't have to grind until you can afford the mech you actually wanted to try from the beginning.

 

And I agree, Fred and the Assault need distinct different capabilities to better justify each others' existance.

[AsianJoyKiller]

well, ideally, each mech would have unique versions of weapons, so that you can, in this case, adjust values of the mini"flak" and NotRev-GL to make them work with the Recruit without affecting the weapons of other mechs. Isn't that the reason the g2 assault and raider have xt versions of the g1's weapons?

With what I understand about how the game was built, that would be a large undertaking. The reason the G2s exist and have those XT versions is because they weren't able to just replace the older weapons with mech-individual versions. The basically had to create new classes to do something like that.

[Kvalheim]

I'm skimming the thread because I'm drunk at a bar atm, but I've always felt the CRT does pretty well as a sort of intro mech, given it's fairly all-rounder primary and optionally-skillbased secondary. It's just ugly and the sheer fact of being restricted to ANY one mech at beginning is going to throw off players. Of course, monetization put to the side for this, ideally we'd give new players a choice of maybe 2-4 mechs at the beginning to find a role that really suits them. There is the free rotation, but the grind-time for them is longer than the time they're available for, so you're locking out players from roles they potentially enjoy.

 

I think it's less about giving them more internals, and more of shortening the grind to a preferred mech type and THEN incentivising transactions, instead of locking out all these gameplay styles.

[Auth0ritarian]

I started to read this thread, and then I couldn't handle all the WOTs.  Good luck, capn. This is a lot of reading.

 

Wanted to make a few clarifications: 

1. I don't think he's saying that the TV is going away forever, or even at all. It will still be there, but wouldn't be the starting mech. 

2. A lot of vets are saying, "The CR-T is great for learning. Sure, I hated it as a noob, but now I see how great it was." Well, the point is to get the noobs from being noobs to vets, so just because you did it doesn't mean everyone does. Capnjosh has access to all of the data that shows how many players start playing and quit after a few battles. He's trying to get those players to continue. Don't think like a grizzled veteran, think like a noob. What would be a good build so that you don't get discouraged quickly during your learning curve?

Edited by Auth0ritarian, 27 March 2015 - 05:02 PM.

[Zabukovic]

Hey, there's nothing wrong with the M-19 "Catcage" :D

 

I suppose letting people have access to more weapons early on that let's them live longer is nice, but you can do some pretty decent damage with the starting assault rifle and tow missile.

[KilleR_OrigiNs]

Redacted.

Edited by KilleR_OrigiNs, 30 April 2015 - 09:51 PM.

[?FTD? eXeon]

I'm sure others have suggested the adv repair kit+extractor with 3xRepair orb, those three internal/items should make anyone's game a lot stronger. Assault is a good swap, its more powerful in all the right ways. I kind of worry about suggesting it but, giving players 1x radar would give them so much more awareness that new players really lack.

[GondabBadong]

Very useful comments - confirming and challenging ones.  I like it.

 

I'll be working on the implementation now.  The specific approach will heavily depend on the tools and any remaining bugs.

 

I expect the implementation will be either swap out the Assault and CR-T as the starting mech OR make the default chassis be the elite chassis for the CR-T.  Exactly when this will go in, it may be Monday, but I'll try for sooner (there have been many more meetings this week than I had expected.... lots of partially-finished projects are coming to light and each one takes some time to digest).

 

Again, thank-you for the feedback. I appreciate the level of effort and though expressed.

 

-capnjosh

It would be amazing if you switched the CRT body with the Elite so you had to EARN your ridiculous box face!

[Bibbly]

I'm a little late to the party, I know, but I just wanted to say - 

 

I would say, instead of making Assault the automatic starting mech, give the new users a choice between the Assault and the CR-T, after getting some time to test them. 

 

Also, I'd say add some internals that only function until a certain XP rank, like the old "newbie" internals you could get on the Fred, i.e:

-One 2 bar internal that reduces all heat produced by 10% until XP Rank 4

 

-One 3 bar internal that reduces all incoming damage by 10% until XP Rank 4

 

-One 1 bar interal that decreases fuel consumption by 10% until XP Rank 4

 

I know, not much, might need to be refined a little, but I think it would add to new players survivability when they jump into matches. I would also say for these internals to NOT be purchasable, as otherwise Pros would shove them on their new mechs and pwn everyone.

 

Thanks for reaching out to the community like this :) <3

I love the idea of rookie parts, global availability, and destruction/removal after a certain level. Brilliant. 

[deidarall]

 

LEAVE FRED ALONE, HES NOT THE PROBLEM!  WE LOVE FRED!

 

-snip-

 

Ok, I think that's enough for now.  What are ya'lls thoughts?

 

 

 

 

Holly heck Vana. I missed you. Also I sort of would like the idea of new players getting a heavy, and light mech at the very start. So they can say "Well that did not work.... maybe this will help... due to more hp/speed/balance" It seems like a small thing, but letting a new player have that sort of choice can make a big difference in how they view the game as well. 

 

I like everything you said, and I still miss you. You have a good one. 

[Elite_is_salty]

The thing that will help newbies most is a good tutorial. Mandatory to watch. Me and friends are working on something, really good.

[Anichkov3]

It is important not to look a participate.

[LarryLaffer]

So my little survey showed up next problems:

1. It would be better to make language and server region selection according to Steam regional settings or at first start . (There was a LOT of questions how to change language in Hawken :wallbash:The FAQ we made helped a little bit, but anyway... )
2. There should be some detailed ingame tutorials for advanced movements and team based game modes such as Missile Assault or Siege. TDM is more or less easy to understand.
3. Freshmen don't feel competitive, when they are put in one match with experienced players.
4. Some players mentioned about grind in game ("paywall problem")

 

But in general new players really like this game and Fred in particular

[Anichkov3]

Well, it may not to like so handsome?

[Upright_6]

How about just re-designing the CR-T's top? but as far as internals and items go I think every mech should come standard with AN internal (they already come with a standard item so why not?). I don't think removing the recruit is a good idea because It's standard weapon and other stats are designed to help newbies (making it the noob tube) while the assault is more for teaching people to move up close and personal. Just my opinion :D

[nepacaka]

Replace Fred and Assault it is a best idea since the last year. Early I told many times that Fred appearance is not like to all, hmm... not like to all "ordinary players".

This should have been done immediately as soon as in game was created an Assault mech. Many players maybe can not like the Assault abilities or weapons loadout, but 99% of players like his "anime-style" appearance. The first impression - this is important. Assault is nice for this.

It would be perfect if you leave Fred as a alternative

 

Alternative variant - make player a choice 1 of 3 available mechs. for example when you start game you can choice

- Vanguard as a C-class

- Assauld as a B-class

- Berserk as a A-Class

so, you can choice not only mech, but also mech class in which you want play.

 

Why? many people think Brawler is hard to play. well, it is true. Rocketeer is too weak. Gren is strange for starting mech. vanguard is a very comfortable mech to play. as a berserk and assault...

for example, i always choice "Heavy or Tank class" in many other games, why i can't try Heavy mech from start!?

Edited by nepacaka, 30 March 2015 - 01:57 PM.

[luxebo]

@Capnjosh, remember there is MWO, and that thing has a MUCH HARDER learning curve than this game. This game is almost fine, though it needs some stuff in between...

 

CR-T should just deserve some buffs.

 

The key to making newer players feel much more balanced is by making the rotation of trials covering more, maybe giving perfect "meta" layouts etc. Make the trials easy enough to learn from, along with making some gestures through that learning/tutorial lady (forgot the name) to lead to different mech roles, perhaps training inside a free A class and a C class?

 

Remember, CR-T isn't quite any worse than the Assault, they just start differently (assault rifle vs SMG/Vulcan).

 

Adding tutorials and more guidelines would help more with the curve more than anything possible. 

 

Brawler is not that hard to play, in fact it's perhaps easier than the Vanguard. The TOW Rocket is easier to use overall.

Edited by luxebo, 30 March 2015 - 01:52 PM.

[luxebo]

Oh yeah, we need more PvE type scenarios, especially maybe a PvE ai campaign to fight, depicting lore, etc. That would really help out new players understand stuff, slowly progress to victory, all that stuff.

[Hyginos]

Oh yeah, we need more PvE type scenarios, especially maybe a PvE ai campaign to fight, depicting lore, etc. That would really help out new players understand stuff, slowly progress to victory, all that stuff.

 

That would be nifty but I doubt a campaign be lucrative for Reloaded if it was anything more than a glorified tutorial.

[luxebo]

That would be nifty but I doubt a campaign be lucrative for Reloaded if it was anything more than a glorified tutorial.

I would pay for GOOD missions potentially. Maybe some online scenarios with just straight-forward PvP too, though they are different from just simple TDM/DM (missile assault and siege are similar too). Some maybe attack vs defend missions or some escort, etc.

 

Campaign would be awesome though in all cases.

[EM1O]

if what we grinded for becomes gratis, i'd appreciate an HC or MC payback be added to my "bank". i'm sure that even with the best of your intentions you're going to get everloving livid rage thrown at you if you don't do Something.

skipped most after the first page.

your high mmr players generally seem to use items and internals as you first mentioned, with the AC tossed in for frequent fliers, or Reconstructor for 1v1.

make the internals a 9-slot feature. this would then turn some mechs into unkillable powerhouses with a skilled player.

not to be a thread-buster, but you think you could make a "no arms" option for the C-frames (similar to the A-frame arm blank selection box)?

These mechs look goofy enuff with them, but I see no reason to tote the tonnage on Grenadier, the turkey flap on G2 Raider, or even the Carousel slamming Incinerator. They appear to be merely bad-tasting eye candy that can't genuinely be critical to the mechs' ability.  Just my request.

[Superkamikazee]

As charming as the CRT is, it's charming aesthetic isn't always appreciated right away. Giving new players the assault to start with is a good idea. 

[madmink]

I have been playing this game for a couple of years and would be great if Hawken would have more weapon options for each mech. It gets old using the same three wepons.

[GotFight]

Please keep the style you currently have. This is what makes it so different from Mech Warrior here are a few points or options.

- This fast an agile gameplay is awesome.

- I really enjoy the unique ''Hawken'' look of the robots.

- Maybe add a wider variety of weapons?

- Customisable weapons in the future?

- Add a few more maps in each type of game.

- Please keep the 4 types of games, they're perfect as it is but a capture the flag could always be fun.

- Some weather effects add to the gameplay of maps.

- Keep it simple and user friendly both in the UI and In-game.

 

Looking forward to keep on playing Hawken and seeing it progress!

 

P.s. Some figurines would be f-ing cool as well.

Edited by GotFight, 30 March 2015 - 05:11 PM.

[Brawler_Yukon]

Carousel slamming Incinerator. They appear to be merely bad-tasting eye candy that can't genuinely be critical to the mechs' ability.

Well actually the Inc's arms are critical to it's ability since the ability literally centers around venting the heat through the holes on the arms and out to the surrounding area. Just FYI.

[DieselCat]

If Fred is removed (which I'm pretty sure he won't be)....I shall have to seek therapy.   

 

*+ 

[nepacaka]

Brawler is not that hard to play, in fact it's perhaps easier than the Vanguard

 

not hard at all. but i saw many people who play very bad on brawler when start, just because they slow and starting with flak. i also talking not about shooting and movement in fight, but about overall effectiveness in combat. Newbie player just walking around and doing nothing useful whole 10 min.

 

 

 

PvE - is very bad way to progress. PvE content need a many hours for creation, and contain only 3-5 hour of gameplay. without RPG-element or Non-linear story line PvE compaing is also don't have a playability.

- Devs spend 1000 hours to create PvE Story.

- You play in it once, maybe twice, and what?...the end?

 

Better add the game-mode in which you can start play solo with bots, without any other players,

 

sorry for my bad english.

 

 

Also, THE GENERAL HAWKEN PROBLEM - IS FUZZY BUNNY PING!

Or packet lost, i don't know what is it. I tired see how my rockets splash near the target and has no effect. it's just make me mad. it is the reason why i stop play in this.

 

 

also, time between matches should be 15 sec. And maybe new Devs returned score-table in classic 3d shooter view, with kills, death, etc. Because now is so stupid and kiddish. Also, rating and avatar should be delete from table too, it only hinders the perception. and look stupid.

Edited by nepacaka, 30 March 2015 - 08:46 PM.

[Amidatelion]

 

 

YAY MY FAVOURITE NON-ANGLO PILOT IS BACK.

[nepacaka]

IS BACK.

 

Not yet.

I'm just waiting when they delete tech, and reworked raider/incinirator abilities into normal

I think it happen.... let me see.... never! :?

[MomOw]

@nepacaka : about PVE, it depends on the way you implement and think of it, If you make PVE to train and score you can have a decent mode that won't require 1 year to implement.

 

I'm not a great fan of how bot destruction is implemented but endless waves of bots with increasing difficulty and rewards based on the time you spent can be a good option, and you may use maps designed for Siege without huge difficulties.

 

(and add a top score for scoring and bragging)

Edited by MomOw, 30 March 2015 - 08:59 PM.

[Nept]

Haven't actually read much of this thread.  That said, I think that switching the Fred and the Assault is a great idea because it preempts any kind of "but they have a better mech" argument.  Doesn't solve some of the vertical progression issues, but it's a solid start.

[nepacaka]

endless waves of bots

 

it is only one thing which can save the CoBD mode alive...and interesting, maybe

Edited by nepacaka, 30 March 2015 - 11:11 PM.