17 replies to this topic

[nepacaka]

I feel it is not very carrect than faster mechs in the same class bring equal amount of EU in siege. Like Brawler and Cupcake, for example, or TV and Raider which can bring EU much faster (+have an ability), or scout, etc.
this is why i suggest something like this:

I test all mechs speed, use standart boost for test, not use boost+dodge or internals.

Updated and fixed!
 

well, after i added more time-based variables, i get even more interesting result. Now is much better!
1) Current 250/200/150 system (and why it is bad)

2) My new version, which make EU efficiency almost equal for al classes. (A-class a little downward, but if you try increase it by 5, they start highly increase their efficiency, and i don't want make values like 172, or 168, cuz it is very stupid from my point of vision)

 

Total values for all mech close to 500 EU in 120 sec., 1k EU in 240 sec., and 2k EU for 480 sec. delivering.
For my opinion shouldn't be difference beetwen mechs in siege, i mean, you shouldn't pick mech just because it help you launch ship faster. it is just wrong.

sure, with different internals result will be different, but it is more like your decision for your mech efficiency in siege. you can equip Extractor and collect it faster, or equip AC or ArmorFusor to be more stronger but collect less. well, like a tuning, you know...

Also, one of more balanced variant make Equal EU-tank capacity with Travel time suggested by Anich3, but it decrease whole EU amount for every mech in match, and make Siege more slower and bored after 1 ship launch, when you need collect 800-900 EU, for example. this is why i think variant with 250 EU as etalon better. (and made siege more quickly with my variant. less collect, more fight. etc.)

Edited by nepacaka, 02 December 2015 - 03:14 AM.

[Merl61]

Unnecessarily complicated.  

[crockrocket]

That might actually be kinda nice

[DeeRax]

Why not just change one value instead of 18:

C-class: 250
B-class: 200
A-class: 150

 

Not saying this is even a good idea, but I see the logic in it. I'm always a little wary of arbitrarily gimping faster mechs just because they're faster. But in this case I do see the logic. I guess.


 

Edited by (TDM) DeeRax, 01 December 2015 - 12:23 PM.

[bacon_avenger]

I miss the old internals that would let one do things like this, increase the EU capacity at the cost of speed... 

[nepacaka]

i test some mech speed on the same distance (EU -> base), the result is more different than i expect ^_^
i'll post soon

[nepacaka]

I test all mechs speed, use standart boost for test, not use boost+dodge or internals.

C-class
Brawler - 22s / 250eu
G2-raider - 23s (22s ability, 22.5 avg) / 250eu
Gren - 20s / 230eu
Vanguard - 18s / 200eu
Incinerator - 18s / 200eu
Rocketeer - 21s / 240eu

 

 

B-class
Bruiser - 19s / 210eu
Assault - 18s / 200eu
BBG-Assault - 18s / 200eu
Predator - 18s / 200eu
SS - 18s / 200eu
Raider - 17s (13s ability, 15 avg) / 150eu
TV - 18s / 200eu

 

 

A-class
Scout - 15s (13s ability, 14 avg) / 130eu
Berserk - 16s / 150eu
Infiltrator - 16s (15s ability 15.5 avg) / 140eu
Reaper - 16s / 150eu
Tech - 16s / 150eu

 

this was bad values, actually... :D

 

for example, i don't understan why Vanguard should bring 250EU, if assault bring 200EU, and have the same speed =/
 

Edited by nepacaka, 02 December 2015 - 02:59 AM.

[Anichkov3]

Um, and why so?

 

????? ?? ?????????? ????? ? ?????? ????????????? ??????? ??? ??????? ? ?? ?????????. ?????? ??? ???????? ?2 ???????? ????? ?????? ?? ??????????????? ?? ????? ? ????????????? ? ???????. ? ??? ?? ????? ? ?????? ?? ??????????????? ??????? ???? ?????????? ?? ????? (???????? ????????). ??? ??? ????? ????????? ????? ?????? ??? ???? ?????????? ????? ?????????? ??????????. ? ?? ?????????????? ?????? ? ???? ???????, ??? ? ???? ? ??????? ? ?????? ??????? ?? ???? ???????? ???? ????? ??????? ?? ????? ????? ?? ?????????? ? ??????? ? ?????? (? ???? ???? ???????? ?????? ???? ??? ???????).

 

?????? ?? ?????? ???? ??????????? ?? ??????? ?????? ?? ????? ?????? ????? - ??? ??? ??? ???????? ?????????????? ? ????? ?-??????, ??? ???????? ?????. ??? ???? 16 ????? ??????. ????????, ??????????? 1 ????? ??????? ????????? ? 10 ??????? ???????. ?? ?? ??? ?????????????? ??? ? ??????????? ??????? ???????? ?? ????? ????? ?? ????. ? ????? ???? ??????? ? ??????? ?????????? ??:

 

 

 

C-class
Brawler - 22s / 220eu
G2-raider - 23s (22s ability, 22.5 avg) / 230eu
Gren - 20s / 200eu
Vanguard - 18s / 180eu
Incinerator - 18s / 180eu
Rocketeer - 21s / 210eu





B-class
Bruiser - 19s / 190eu
Assault - 18s / 180eu
BBG-Assault - 18s / 180eu
Predator - 18s / 180eu
SS - 18s / 180eu
Raider - 17s (13s ability, 15 avg) / 170eu
TV - 18s /180eu





A-class
Scout - 15s (13s ability, 14 avg) / 150eu
Berserk - 16s / 160eu
Infiltrator - 16s (15s ability 15.5 avg) / 160eu
Reaper - 16s / 160eu
Tech - 16s / 160eu

Edited by Anichkov3, 01 December 2015 - 08:56 PM.

[nepacaka]

Spoiler

????? ?? ?????????? ????? ? ?????? ????????????? ???????

 

??? ????.
 

???????? ????????

 

?? ????? ????? ????? ?? ???????????? ???? ????, ???? ???????, ??? ?????? ? ??????, ??????????? ?????????.
 

??? ??? ????? ????????? ????? ?????? ??? ???? ?????????? ????? ?????????? ??????????.

 

??? ?? ??????. ??????? - ????/????. ???? ????? ??????? - ??????. ???, ????? ??????. ????? - ????? ?? ?????.
????? ?2 ? ????? ?? ?????? ?? ????? ???????. ? ????? ??????? ? 0.5 ???
 

??? ??? ??? ???????? ?????????????? ? ????? ?-??????, ??? ???????? ?????.

 

????? ????? ??????? ?? ??? ??????????, ? ????? ? ?????? ??? ? ????? ???????????? ??????, ?????? ????????? ?????. ?? ?? "???????" ?? ????.

 

???????????? ??????? ????, ???????? ????? ????/???????, ? ????? ?? ????. ????????? ?? ? ???? ???????...

[nepacaka]

well, after i added more time-based variables, i gain even more interesting results. Now it is much better!

1) Current 250/200/150 system (and why it is bad)

2) My new version, which make EU efficiency almost equal for al classes. (A-class a little downward, but if you try increase it by 5, they start highly increase their efficiency, and i don't want make values like 172, or 168, cuz it is very stupid from my point of vision)

Edited by nepacaka, 02 December 2015 - 02:52 AM.

[BlackWarGreymon]

This is one of the least important issues that need addressing in the game right now, if it needs addressing at all.

NEWS FLASH:

Both teams can use the faster B & C class mechs to collect energy faster, so neither team has to have an advantage or be disadvantaged in terms of how quickly they can get their ship launched.

In my experience ( more than 99.999% of players in the game right now- Alpha testers ftw ), capping the AA first regardless of gathering EU faster is what matters- you can happily wait 30 seconds to launch your ship so long as your whole team has the AA locked down. Good teams ( = rare ) will have 2-3 guys gather EU, while the rest take AA or hinder the other team; they will then have their whole team meat on the AA while the other team is still scrambling around trying to gather EU they don't need.

This is why most games of Siege suck- nothing to do with being slow to get EU necessarily, everything to do with not going AA and STILL collecting yet more EU that simply isn't needed. You can get more EU later- getting lots of EU quickly and not going AA quickly is what ruins matches.

Siege rules need to be displayed on screen by default ( so many guys ask how to win siege mode simply because they don't know the rules ), and big, 6" high hints need to be displayed by default ( can be turned off in settings ) when it's time to go AA- seems no one listens to the audio warnings, or instructions from the more experienced players, regardless of how politely those instructions are given...

[nepacaka]

I'm pretty sure that 90% people dont know that if 6 ppl stay at AA, it deal more damage for ship.

Also, I think that experience which you gain from EU delivering should be a little decreased.
In one match I have a very bad team. So, I make 10 frags, and I don't want fight 1vs5 while my team shoot in ship.
So, I start running for EU and spam my ships, while enemy destroy it and crush my team, I only collect EU and faster launch next. Etc.

As a result I lose with 1000+ points, best enemy have 950+,
lol. I just collect all my points from EU delivering)

[BlackWarGreymon]

That's how it goes most games- as soon as you realise your team is just a bunch of cabbages, you either quit ( I usually do, if it's early into the game and I'm not losing lots of HC or XP ), or if it's further into the game I just go EU collecting to salvage as many points as I can, then maybe go hassle the enemy sniper or rocketeer who is causing most of the trouble for my team. Seems flanking is a dark art that only people with more than 2 brain cells can figure out how to do effectively...

[GalaxyRadio]

Hi,

 

right now we have much bigger problems to solve then this, i talk about really really bad matchmaking/balancing options before and in the middle of a match.

 

Fine tuning can be done after we got out the biggest problems first, this here is not 1 of them.

 

Galaxy Radio

Edited by GalaxyRadio, 03 December 2015 - 04:39 AM.

[nepacaka]

Hi,

 

right now we have much bigger problems to solve then this, i talk about really really bad matchmaking/balancing options before and in the middle of a match.

 

Fine tuning can be done after we got out the biggest problems first, this here is not 1 of them.

 

Galaxy Radio

you look in wrong direction.
balancer working good. problem why balancer not working - small population.
what we need to do to solve small population?
1) Add new content (mechs/maps)
2) Fix bad game-design things in game. (probably impossible to do)
3) Add camo/drones/chassis to earn some money.

 

also, some game optimization problems. half of maps is bored in some game modes, like lostEco and frontline. Big difference between maps, which added more problem in mech movement speed balance. whole movement mechanics is broken. siege turn into stupid C-class massacre after third ship (it is always happens, i see it in 95% siege, because 6 C's just imba team). stupid mech setups, and mech which creating this setup (like incinerator). Big problem with sustain weapon overheat (i mean, sustain should heating faster).
stupid balance between A and C. New Air-combat mechanics which making game unplayable for 50% of people, because they just can kill one berserk, which shred all enemy team.
who wants play in this? except hawken fans?

Edited by nepacaka, 03 December 2015 - 05:12 AM.

[GalaxyRadio]

No, Matchmaking is not working at all, it could be much better and i don't talk about small population, i talk about what can be done wiht or without small population, dosn't matter.

 

Example

 

Team A 3 Good players 1 Decent player

Team B 1 Good player 4 decent players

 

Game starts, Team A get another good player, Team B just a decent player -> stomping gets even worse then before -> matchmaker can't do anything about it. I didn't even talked about hacker/smurfs. Right now the system can't work, its not flexibel enough and i said this a very long time ago already, but it will be never adressed it seems.

 

Even if you have a match beginning with full 6 vs 6 teams, matchmaker dosn't work that well, it needs changes also in the middle of a game with forced switches without pressing F8 (cause if a bad player is switching to the side who gets stomped nothing will change of course etc. etc. etc.)

 

The actual system is just crap, could be even random based, wouldn't matter.

 

Galaxy Radio

Edited by GalaxyRadio, 03 December 2015 - 05:17 AM.

[Hyginos]

The actual system is just crap, could be even random based, wouldn't matter.

 

Got a better system in mind? I've actually looked at the available options a bit and from what I can tell Glicko rating is widely considered to be effective in applications like this. The only thing I can think of that would really make a difference is not starting games without even number of players and not allowing hot-joins, but both of those present their own problems.

 

As for OP: you are solving a problem that does not exist.

[nepacaka]

"As for OP: you are solving a problem that does not exist."©
I often use vanguard in siege for this purpose, despite I mostly use brawler for play. Very often use it on frontline, because brawler slow, and can swap between mech in fight after death if it needed.

Just interested. 2-3 players in siege, who specially swap mech to incinerator with papa, and destroy enemy ship very fast if they can't get AA, is also not existing problem? :D

Edited by nepacaka, 03 December 2015 - 10:02 AM.