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Why you shouldn't care about MMR

* * * - - 2 votes MMR meaning broken explained

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#1
CoshCaust

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I've thought MMR through a fair bit and wanted to put all my thoughts in one place to refer others to if the topic arises. There's so many reasons people shouldn't care about their MMR that I would really enjoy not explaining this multiple times, heh.
 
- You're literally not supposed to care:
You have to go out of your way to friend request a bot and type a command to it in chat, or make in-game alterations to appear on an MMR list outside of the game; the rating is not listed anywhere publicly by the developers (that I know of). Level, mech, kills, deaths, assists, damage output, damage sustained, etc. is all right in front of you, but MMR is nowhere to be seen. Literally, you're just not supposed to care about it. It's supposed to be a way to get similarly talented players in lobbies together to create a more consistently fun experience. That's it. Just so that Mr. Veteran doesn't land in a lobby with Mr. Tries To Back-Boost But Does A 180 Instead.
 
- It can make your Hawken experience worse:
-- Stress: You might be the type of player who really enjoys working to improve your skill level- you can end up checking your MMR as often as possible and worrying about a decrease even when in some cases it's essentially entirely out of your control. This may end up making Hawken more stressful than fun.
-- Stunted growth: You may end up so concerned about MMR that you make overly defensive decisions to protect yourself, playing with abnormal apprehensions and an abnormal lack of confidence; even if you avoid that folly, you may be considerably less likely to take risks and work on your weaknesses- stunting your growth as a player.
 
- It isn't sufficiently indicative of skill level:
-- Smurf accounts (NOT alternate accounts)*: Need I really explain this? In some cases, smurf accounts can cause other players to be punished rather than rewarded for their performance, but in all cases no matter what, the presence of a smurf in a lobby will result in other players' MMR increases being lowered abnormally.
-- Current MMR spread and population: This is one not everyone seems to realize. The MMR system performance correlates with population- the more players there are, the more accurate MMR is. Not only is this the case, but after population expansion and shrinkage have occurred, the system does not return to an equally effective state. The current spread of MMR is stagnant; players have established themselves as significant functions in the dynamics of MMR, but are not actively participating in the system which is still very much trying to function. Imagine MMR was reset right now; it would be more accurate, wouldn't it? At least temporarily, before the same stretching, skewing, and stagnation occurs again due to low population.
-- The algorithm itself: Using the Technician mech will garner more points with less skill (well accepted fact, coupled with a direct quote from a player remaining unnamed: "...a techzerker account, for fun and for the purpose of achieving high MMR without skill..."). If there is a Tech on the team, the distribution of total points earned by the team is logically off. But that's not the only issue here; did you think Hawken perfectly distributes points in the absence of a Tech? Of course not. MMR calculation doesn't take into account massively important variables, such as ping (IT DOESN'T TAKE INTO ACCOUNT PING???), and how long you've been in the server- that's right, join late, get no points as the game ends, MMR plummets (Reference A). MMR simply cannot distinguish the skill level of a player- this is why hugely competitive games like CS:GO only alter rank according to one singular variable: win/loss. Hawken attempts to take into account multiple variables (which I think actually works pretty well, with the exception of the Tech issue), but it's unbelievably far from all possible variables distinguishing talent (essentially impossible to do in our lifetime).
 
In short:
Unnecessary stress, smurfs, a broken system, tiny population- what could possibly be rational about caring about MMR? Just enjoy the game!
 
Feel free to discuss, I'll add anything I'm missing.
 
--------------------------------------------------
 
*smurf:
"A (usually) experienced gamer posing as a newbie under an alternate name."
This is what I refer to when I say 'smurf'. In my eyes, it doesn't make sense for 'smurf' to be a synonym for 'alternate account'. A smurf's MMR is not representative of his/her skill level, while an alternate account's MMR is.
 
Reference A:
Just got online and played two games; one I joined extremely late with good players and had no chance to catch up, the other was a full game with random people and I ended up finishing ~500 points above the closest person. After logging on and playing those two games, I lost ~10 MMR points.
 
Anecdotal evidence:
- On MMR evaluation failure: [Reference A]
- On MMR evaluation failure: "...a techzerker account, for fun and for the purpose of achieving high MMR without skill..."
- On MMR update frequency: On multiple occasions, after multi-day absence, I've logged in, checked MMR, completed one match, and checked it again- seeing it had changed. I believe MMR is updated immediately after a completed match, or at least before the completion of another match; the latter essentially must be the case for MMR to function at all.
- On MMR evaluation failure: 2 matches played in one session; match #1 felt rough, like I did less than I could have and was lower on the board than I should have been for my standards, against average names- MMR increased 8 points; match #2 felt great, was proud, performed well enough (not top of the board) against bigger names- MMR dropped 16 points. One of the more baffling events.
- On stunted growth: When overly concerned with MMR results, I pressure myself into shooting for the most points possible, causing myself to YOLO-dive more than usual (wait that's even possible?).
- On MMR evaluation failure: One match played in one session; top of the scoreboard server-wide, lost 8 MMR.
 
Final note:
To be honest, MMR does inherently hold SOME weight (with a greater population, it would indeed partition the player-base so that vets aren't playing with noobs, etc.), but given the stagnant spread of MMR, smurfs, and tiny population...well, at this very moment, MMR is just vaguely meaningful at best. I'd passionately argue that a 100 MMR gap between two players around 2000 is essentially meaningless right now- and that gap of meaninglessness exists at any level, increasing with MMR.

Edited by CoshCaust, 17 March 2016 - 10:11 PM.

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#2
TAZ_

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hahaha



(08:35:47 PM) Ashfire908: auth taz_ blacklist
(08:35:48 PM) ScrimBot: 'taz_' has been added to the 'blacklist' group.

 


#3
WmMoneyFrmMissouri

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MMR means nothing. At one point back a little after I first started and played scout exclusively I cracked 2100, I'm floating between 1700-1900 now because I'm trying to get down this false idol, the g2 raider. I'm also constantly trying new mechs and if I like em I stick with them through thick and thin to the detriment of my MMR until something more fun pops up. I'm sure if I got serious, quit every game before 2 minutes up if it doesn't look like I'm going to dominate - yeah a lot of those pilots you idolize live by this - and generally played for no fun just not to die I could return to those levels. I realized a while back when on paper I was gud, it just wasn't as fun, certainly not even a fraction of the amount of fun I'm currently having.

Anyways, my point in all this is just because you are a low MMR player doesn't mean you can't make high MMR type plays. Focus on that, the situation and the myriad of ways you might get out of it while still releasing a well placed MUAHAHAHA ! JUST REMEMBER FELLOW ROBROS, THROUGH THE MYSTERIES OF THE BLINKING RED LIGHT NO TARGET IS OUT OF REACH !!!
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#4
SS396

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So if it means nothing then what is the point of having a leaderboard that sorts by MMR?

[DELETED]

 

fuzzy bunny you CZeroFive 


#5
LRod

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MMR means nothing. At one point back a little after I first started and played scout exclusively I cracked 2100, I'm floating between 1700-1900 now because I'm trying to get down this false idol, the g2 raider. I'm also constantly trying new mechs and if I like em I stick with them through thick and thin to the detriment of my MMR until something more fun pops up. I'm sure if I got serious, quit every game before 2 minutes up if it doesn't look like I'm going to dominate - yeah a lot of those pilots you idolize live by this - and generally played for no fun just not to die I could return to those levels. I realized a while back when on paper I was gud, it just wasn't as fun, certainly not even a fraction of the amount of fun I'm currently having.

Anyways, my point in all this is just because you are a low MMR player doesn't mean you can't make high MMR type plays. Focus on that, the situation and the myriad of ways you might get out of it while still releasing a well placed MUAHAHAHA ! JUST REMEMBER FELLOW ROBROS, THROUGH THE MYSTERIES OF THE BLINKING RED LIGHT NO TARGET IS OUT OF REACH !!!

Damnit!  Why do I feel like I just lost at the circle game?!  Well played Mr. "MUAHAHAHAH" from Missouri...well played.

 

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"The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting"  - Sun Tzu


#6
WmMoneyFrmMissouri

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Damnit! Why do I feel like I just lost at the circle game?! Well played Mr. "MUAHAHAHAH" from Missouri...well played.


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It appears my work is done... For now. MUAHAHAHA.
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#7
crockrocket

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If server locking wasn't a thing or wasn't as strict I wouldn't give a flying fuzz about mmr.

 

 

Also RIP thread, someone said mmr


Edited by (TDM)crockrocket, 29 January 2016 - 08:37 PM.

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[14:32] <Crafty> hawken is unlike anything Ive played

 

 


#8
CoshCaust

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So if it means nothing then what is the point of having a leaderboard that sorts by MMR?

I suggest you read the post, i never even claimed MMR means nothing.

This thread is about caring about MMR, it just so happens that MMR also means significantly less than most seem to let it.


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#9
eth0

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mmr makes for didnt enjoy the game

 

EDIT: but PSR is fun and important, that's why it's on your herokuapp profile


Edited by eth0, 29 January 2016 - 10:52 PM.

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Pubstomping is a whole different strategic discussion, however, and usually just becomes an exploration of the ethics of dumpstering randos.

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Why mech game make when you no mech game have you don't want to make? 


#10
ticklemyiguana

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-- Smurf accounts: Need i really explain this? In some cases, smurf accounts can cause other players to be punished rather than rewarded for their performance, but in all cases no matter what, the presence of a smurf in a lobby will result in other players' MMR increases being lowered abnormally.

Do the edit thing. My main account is lower than at least half my smurfs in terms of MMR, resulting in the opposite effect.


Spoiler

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#11
CoshCaust

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Wuz I even talking to you?  Might want to check yoself.

The above is a quote.

They're good for quoting.

Glad i could be the one to bestow such enlightenment upon you.

This isn't a chat room.

 

Do the edit thing. My main account is lower than at least half my smurfs in terms of MMR, resulting in the opposite effect.

http://www.urbandict....php?term=smurf
"A (usually) experienced gamer posing as a newbie under an alternate name."

Those accounts of yours might as well be your mains, yeah? If you wouldn't consider them your main account(s), then they're just alternate accounts, pseudonyms for you, right? They're not smurfs.

If someone really wants to argue the nomenclature, by all means go for it, i'm not claiming this is an English language standard; i'm just using terms logically- it just makes sense to call an alternate account with appropriate MMR an 'alternate account' and leave the special term 'smurf' for a special account.


Edited by CoshCaust, 30 January 2016 - 01:54 AM.

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#12
Aregon

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While you shouldn't care about MMR, it can be somewhat difficult to ignore it's presence, at least in my case. If you are like me, and want to know as much about how you performed with about as much response as possible, MMR can be a pain in the ass. And while one very often get responses like "don't care about MMR", "It's not accurate" and/or "so just block scrimbot", that doesn't mean they are helpful. At least not when there are such things like a leaderboard, restrictions to enter servers and (somewhat a subjective opinion) the constant bickering about where you are on the said leaderboard, where others are etc etc.

This may just be a personal problem, but I have tried to generalise as much as possible why people like me can get highly frustrated over a simple number.
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CRITICAL ASSIST

United in Diversity, Divided by Zero
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Spoiler

 

 


#13
WmMoneyFrmMissouri

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Focus on having fun and you'd be surprised how good you can get. Focus on MMR and you'd be surprised how uptight you'll become. The choice is yours.

Edited by WmMoneyFrmMissouri, 30 January 2016 - 08:34 AM.

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#14
SS396

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The above is a quote.

They're good for quoting.

Glad i could be the one to bestow such enlightenment upon you.

This isn't a chat room.

 

giphy.gif

 

I could understand if the comment I was referring to was buried in the text somewhere that you didn't bother to read it, but when it was right there literally the first sentence of one of three posts (2 if you don't count your own), staring you in the face.  I'm not all that convinced quoting it is going to give it the massive help you need to identify it and follow along at all.

 

 

And wrong again, a forum is clearly a form of chat room.

 

Rekt.  Schooled again.


[DELETED]

 

fuzzy bunny you CZeroFive 


#15
DerMax

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Edgelord chiming in:

 

You absolutely should care about your MMR. If you don't, you're a filthy casual, and you should bow before the mighty of this world.


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#16
Superkamikazee

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MMR is very important because the higher your MMR, the more your opinion matters. #hashtag
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No crew


#17
CoshCaust

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Crappy stub article is crappy.

https://en.wikipedia.../Internet_forum

"They differ from chat rooms..."

https://www.google.c...um vs chat room

Fun anecdotal fact [not an argument]: I wrote an essay on the differences between the two in high school.

Not replying anymore, pointless bickering. 



#18
Luaq

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Edit: ANnnnnyways.... Whatever I say is of no importance if reloaded will actually make this 2016 update and bring thousands of people back into playing this game... (Maybe I'm way to enthusiastic, my brains tells me not to be while my gut tells me I can trust the new dev team... but you know, sometimes my guts is wrong... or was it right at some point but in time things change and thus the end is the same as if I was wrong the whole time...)

For now we just have to bare with all of this... Because I'll never expect them smurfs to stop being smurfs...


Edited by Luaq, 30 January 2016 - 02:21 PM.

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#19
WmMoneyFrmMissouri

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^ Hellc, there is a special place in hell for you for posting some drivel like this. While I'm sure you're intentions were good, you've failed miserably in your execution. Mentally challenged people have it tough enough without you using them as a butt of a joke. Let SS run his mouth. Clearly with all the posts there is something to whatever inadequacy he feels about himself. There is nothing you can say or do to get more in his own head that he already is. Dont lower yourself I advise.
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#20
TheButtSatisfier

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IM BEING NAUGHTY AGAIN GUYS

 

SHOO SHOO

 

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GO AUN! GO AUN AND GIT!


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8) Tech in the streets, Brawler in the sheets (8


#21
CraftyDus

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We should hold an event where any evidence that guy has even played Hawken this year would be rewarded.

Don't you lose your match making rating when you've been inactive and irrelevant to playing the game for a long time like that?

EOC Raider, Bolt Pred, Rev Gl Gren, EOC Infil, All the Reapers, Father, Expert in Guitar Kung Fu, and Founder of TPG Hawken

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#22
crockrocket

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We should hold an event where any evidence that guy has even played Hawken this year would be rewarded.

Don't you lose your match making rating when you've been inactive and irrelevant to playing the game for a long time like that?


I've got my screenshots
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Salvage: An Idea to Stop Leavers

Player Retention & Howken

 

[14:31] <Crafty> I know that in my balls
[14:32] <Crafty> hawken is unlike anything Ive played

 

 


#23
CraftyDus

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I'm impressed crockers!
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EOC Raider, Bolt Pred, Rev Gl Gren, EOC Infil, All the Reapers, Father, Expert in Guitar Kung Fu, and Founder of TPG Hawken

I4U54qx.jpg     bQCgI0k.png   zd30MxR.png   vP7JiOe.png     uq0awfp.gif

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#24
crockrocket

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I'm impressed crockers!

Well it was such a rare occasion so I had to grab a memento


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Salvage: An Idea to Stop Leavers

Player Retention & Howken

 

[14:31] <Crafty> I know that in my balls
[14:32] <Crafty> hawken is unlike anything Ive played

 

 


#25
SS396

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Well it was such a rare occasion so I had to grab a memento


What was the date on that screen grab Crock? I seem to remember it was quite a while ago, it certainly wasn't last week because I didn't play any matches last week.   :thumbsup:


[DELETED]

 

fuzzy bunny you CZeroFive 


#26
crockrocket

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What was the date on that screen grab Crock? I seem to remember it was quite a while ago, it certainly wasn't last week because I didn't play any matches last week.   :thumbsup:

Ya know, I actually forgot that we just started a new calendar year. It was over a month ago for sure, so I guess Crafty's right

 

 

EDIT: It was December 13th


Edited by (TDM)crockrocket, 31 January 2016 - 12:39 PM.

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Salvage: An Idea to Stop Leavers

Player Retention & Howken

 

[14:31] <Crafty> I know that in my balls
[14:32] <Crafty> hawken is unlike anything Ive played

 

 


#27
CraftyDus

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Get a grip
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EOC Raider, Bolt Pred, Rev Gl Gren, EOC Infil, All the Reapers, Father, Expert in Guitar Kung Fu, and Founder of TPG Hawken

I4U54qx.jpg     bQCgI0k.png   zd30MxR.png   vP7JiOe.png     uq0awfp.gif

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#28
SparkyJJC

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Get a grip

197441.jpg

Will this do?

Edited by Sparky, 31 January 2016 - 03:14 PM.

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#29
CoshCaust

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