153 replies to this topic

[LaurenEmily]

With all these topics about fixing the tech going on, i want to discuss this issue that seems to come up a lot too. hellfires in open maps are the most freaking annoying piece of fuzzy bunny i've experienced in this game and i know a lot of people feel the same. Is it the map's fault or is it the weapon, i don't know, but something should be tweaked to tone it down a bit. it's rather simple it seems, if something cannot be effectively countered it's not right.

[Anichkov3]

You probably have quite Newbie in the game and do not know how to use dodge. From Hellfire "purely" an emphasis on open terrain can even mech C-Class. If you are unable to perform properly dodge it means you need to learn to play.

[LarryLaffer]

It's like the chicken or the egg dilemma. I think that such open maps as Bunker or Last Eco shouldn't be added to the game in the first place when weapons such as Hellfires or Slug/Sabot Rifle were already exist in Hawken. Hellfires are overnerfed now because of that.

Edited by LarryLaffer, 26 March 2015 - 11:38 PM.

[Elite_is_salty]

Hellfires should be removed. 

[Anichkov3]

The invisibility should be removed. 

 

 

 

 

It's like the chicken or the egg dilemma. I think that such open maps as Bunker or Last Eco shouldn't be added to the game in the first place when weapons such as Hellfires or Slug/Sabot Rifle were already exist in Hawken. Hellfires are overnerfed now because of that.

An amendment: Hellfires and Slug/Sabot Rifle just better to use those maps. 

Edited by Anichkov3, 26 March 2015 - 11:52 PM.

[DisorderlyMechanic]

Every mech has certain advantages and disadvantages on each map. Removing mecha, weapons, or maps is pretty pointless as it means everyone has less content, it's not* really ideal just because a couple players have problems with them.  

Edited by DisorderlyMechanic, 27 March 2015 - 05:43 AM.

[CrimsonKaim]

I myself don't mind the hellfires that much, I mean you can dodge the mpretty easy, even in a C-Class. I think the most annoying thing with the Hellfires is the low cooldown. Maybe an increase in damage (30%) and a decrease in rate of fire (50%) could do.

 

But one thing is really annoying about the hellfires: Cloak scanner ._.

Edited by FakeName, 26 March 2015 - 11:52 PM.

[Anichkov3]

FakeName calmer. In the game only 2 mech with weapons.

The only thing that annoys is that Infiltrator does not disable invisibility by taking damage. 

Edited by Anichkov3, 26 March 2015 - 11:59 PM.

[Dawn_of_Ash]

Hellfires should be removed. 

 

First remove my 300+ ping and/or increase Hawken's player base.

 

And the main problem is Bunker, not anything else. As a main-ish Rocketeer player - because of lag - I can tell you straight up that the problem is Bunker. Only. In Last Eco, you have to position yourself very well to do well. All other maps have more cover and make Hellfires next to useless. Yes, Hellfires are powerful when you get all hits in but I will tell you once more, they are only OP on Bunker due to the lack of cover on the outer ring of the map.

 

I really don't know why Hellfires are taking the majority of the flak when there are so many weapons that I could complain about - like the SMC being a bit unbalanced. Only difference is that SMC has a higher skill-ceiling and cannot be dodged by timing a dodge well. I'm sorry if I'm harsh but Hellfires are in a good place, just that there is one map which exploits it's locking-on feature.

Edited by Dawn_of_Ash, 27 March 2015 - 12:11 AM.

[dorobo]

Easy solution would be just place a couple structures on top of bunker hills

[LarryLaffer]

And the main problem is Bunker, not anything else. As a main-ish Rocketeer player - because of lag - I can tell you straight up that the problem is Bunker. Only. In Last Eco, you have to position yourself very well to do well. All other maps have more cover and make Hellfires next to useless. Yes, Hellfires are powerful when you get all hits in but I will tell you once more, they are only OP on Bunker due to the lack of cover on the outer ring of the map.

Last Eco is fine in Siege and MA in terms of Hellfires, but in TDM the swarm of Bruisers/Rocketeers/Sharpshooters/Reapers is a usual matter. On all other maps hellfires can be used more or less effectively. Even on Uptown (but not with 300+ ping ofc)

 

 

Removing mecha, weapons, or maps is pretty pointless as it means everyone has less content.

True. I think that any content removal must be done only as an extreme measure after all tweaks and fixes. So personally I would like to see some changes in Bunker and Last Eco.

[hashms0a]

I'll just stop playing Hawken, if the hellfires been removed. I got 150 - 300 PING. this the only weapon that seems to works for me (for now!).

Edited by hashms0a, 27 March 2015 - 12:50 AM.

[Anichkov3]

Last Eco is fine in Siege and MA in terms of Hellfires, but in TDM the swarm of Bruisers/Rocketeers/Sharpshooters/Reapers is a usual matter. On all other maps hellfires can be used more or less effectively. Even on Uptown (but not with 300+ ping ofc)

Following the new fashion on the forum - Remove TDM these maps 

Edited by Anichkov3, 27 March 2015 - 01:01 AM.

[M3CH47]

Problem with Hellfires, ey? Sollution: Blitz! 

[Rainbow_Sheep]

Problem with Hellfires, ey? Sollution: Blitz! 

 

Blitz is only on two mechs, meaning that isn't really a valid solution.

 

My view is that hellfires are pretty okay where they are, the problem is how open certain maps are, especially Bunker. Bunker really needs some more cover other than a few low angled hills and some cliffs, if you stand on top of the actual bunker you can see almost all of the map with most if not all cover eliminated.

[MomOw]

Something should be done to hellfire as they are typically a n00b stomping weapon on bunker (and last eco), and they end by being less efficient than TOW in ~2000MMR servers.

 

the bruiser start with the point-D which is great at close range but I think that the first primary weapons should be more straight forward and the bruiser should start with the AR. As alternate and prestige weapon I don't know, but I'm not a great fan of the actual choice.

 

the Rocketeer start with the Seeker which is it's best weapon and other weapons choice are less efficient.

 

Changing hellfire imply some rework for the 2 mechs that are using hellfire, as far as I understood highly skilled players prefers burst fire that require proper timing, but less deadly weapons easier to use have their use in that game.

[Dawn_of_Ash]

Something should be done to hellfire as they are typically a n00b stomping weapon on bunker (and last eco), and they end by being less efficient than TOW in ~2000MMR servers.

 

Make that 1850+, people are still dodging my hellfires while I had my downhill drop of MMR while I was on my "Hawken break" - seriously, the Hawken community is getting much better. If you think that getting to 2000 MMR was the same as it was a few months ago, you are wrong. 

 

Last Eco is fine in Siege and MA in terms of Hellfires, but in TDM the swarm of Bruisers/Rocketeers/Sharpshooters/Reapers is a usual matter. On all other maps hellfires can be used more or less effectively. Even on Uptown (but not with 300+ ping ofc)

 

Really? I thought Siege was the problem with Hellfires on that map. While the mechs are trying to battle for the AA, it's quite easy to pick them off with hellfires once you get the highground on the side - that I freely admit, but I feel that it is an epic battle for the high ground and that it should not be changed. As for TDMs, I actually haven't felt that. Possibly because of my MMR or something, or that I never get Sharpshooters or Reapers with me. All I can say is that I haven't experienced any "OP" times on Last Eco on TDM. Maybe it's just me.

Edited by Dawn_of_Ash, 27 March 2015 - 04:42 AM.

[M4st0d0n]

http://hawken.heroku...ser/LaurenEmily

 

Four fuzzy bunnyng mechs. The new devs should reduce this game to those four fuzzy bunnyng mechs you fully ranked. EOC-Rocketeer gameplay is already reduced to fuzzy bunny anyway.

[LaurenEmily]

http://hawken.heroku...ser/LaurenEmily

 

Four ######ng mechs. The new devs should reduce this game to those four ######ng mechs you fully ranked. EOC-Rocketeer gameplay is already reduced to fuzzy bunny anyway.

Wow.. never said anything even remotely close to that. I don't have a problem with any of them besides the rocketeer and that is only because you can spam it endlessly in the open maps. Maybe you should try reading the starting post before replying with nonsense ?

[Brawler_Yukon]

Wow.. never said anything even remotely close to that. I don't have a problem with any of them besides the rocketeer and that is only because you can spam it endlessly in the open maps. Maybe you should try reading the starting post before replying with nonsense ?

I don't understand how it's 4 mechs, when you clearly have five that you've "mastered" (I love the implication that a high level mech somehow means you're good with them, I have a rank 4 Fred, and my k/d with him is like .25)

[Erzunterweltler]

Hellfires are really easy to dodge, as mentioned before, if you have got a problem with them you simply have to learn that, there's no other way because Hellfires aren't that useful on most of the maps. because they have got more cover and Hellfires at close range are just useless.

 

I'm sorry if I'm harsh but Hellfires are in a good place, just that there is one map which exploits it's locking-on feature.

 

Totally agreed.

[FRX23]

Hellfires got a lot of changes, i think it's fine at the moment.

 

No HF on bunker,lasteco ? Ok so also remove nades from uptown, wreckage...

And i forgot :  you could remove snipers on prosk, bazaar and frontline maps...

Edited by FRX23, 27 March 2015 - 08:45 AM.

[crockrocket]

Hellfires are a pain in the ass for lower MMR players, and utterly useless higher up. I say keep as is, they're super important for high ping play.

[FRX23]

Hellfires are a pain in the ass for lower MMR players, and utterly useless higher up. I say keep as is, they're super important for high ping play.

 

So, high ranked players don't have to complain, right ?

[EM1O]

Following the new fashion on the forum - Remove TDM these maps 

and pull bunker from siege rotation. just 'cause. put the tunnel back in bazaar/sahara/whatever.

seriously, this seems to be an issue of failing to pass the dodge certification in the VR Training module. they are SO easy to avoid. i'm 1560mmr, and i don't recall playing with or against anyone recently wonky enough to use hellfires completitively. i love my Bruiser, and it's a hoot to play with target practice against bots, but poor performance anywhere else; i could do much better with my no-healz battle-Tech.

my opine.

[opicr0n]

All this hellfire talk ^^. I feel hated upon, sorry guys but taking the bruiser out for a spin sooths the mind.

 

But seriously there is a lot of cover on bunker also on the outskirts of the map. Use it better ;).

 

Skillfires locked! Curving 180 degrees initiated!

Edited by opicr0n, 27 March 2015 - 10:04 AM.

[TheFrostnessMonster]

Bruiser is the sexiest mech next to the Raider. 

[Hyginos]

I actually find hellfires to be non-trivial to dodge simply becasue there are typically more immediate threats competing for my dodge cooldown. Evading in the open I typtically take one or two from the volley.

 

HF is really only a problem on bunker IMO, becasue not much of the cover is tall enough to protect you from a locked missle that is fired straight up in the air.

 

I also think HF has a skill floor that effectively scales with server MMR. There are some really crazy trick shots you can do, and these become essential in a high level lobby where someone will inevitably throw sabots at you or rip you up in direct engagement.

 

Bruiser is the sexiest mech next to the Raider. 

 

I think you meant "Battle Turkey is sexiest mech without contest"

[TheFrostnessMonster]

Bruiser isn't super good in higher skill games, but is one of the most fun to play.  Watching the mechs scurry for cover when they get that death whine of locked-on missiles.  Very satisfying.

[opicr0n]

Bruiser isn't super good in higher skill games, but is one of the most fun to play.  Watching the mechs scurry for cover when they get that death whine of locked-on missiles.  Very satisfying.

 

Muahaha ^^ so true

[crockrocket]

So, high ranked players don't have to complain, right ?

To be fair, I'm saying that as a low ranked skrub, but whenever I've talked to high level players they seem nonplussed by hf

[LaurenEmily]

All this hellfire talk ^^. I feel hated upon, sorry guys but taking the bruiser out for a spin sooths the mind.

 

But seriously there is a lot of cover on bunker also on the outskirts of the map. Use it better ;).

 

Skillfires locked! Curving 180 degrees initiated!

As long as you use bruiser and not rocketeer i'm not going to hate you ^^ lol. For some reason it doesn't bother me that much. rocketeer drives me nuts though and makes me want to rip my hair off. It has that annoying weapon that goes along with the hellfires and it sucks.

 

I think you meant "Battle Turkey is sexiest mech without contest"

This is true.

Now imagine if they gave it the raider's white elite skin paintjob.. how cool would that be

[OmegaNull]

#learntododge

[LaurenEmily]

#learntododge

Ever been to bunker ? you should try you'll love it.

[crockrocket]

#learntododge

Again, in regards to questions of balance etc., you can't just say some equivalent of "get better" in order to dismiss concerns from the lower tiers.

[M4st0d0n]

It has that annoying weapon that goes along with the hellfires and it sucks.

 

That's the spam you are talking about. And it's named Seeker. Has been buffed with Ascencion patch, while HFs bending mechanisms were nerfed. Believe it or not, but at some point during the Reaper patch, Seeker was the less reliable weapon on the Rocketeer and needed you to lead the targets to be effective. Now it's viable on open areas. Stupid, with strong homing and viable.

 

You cant spam hellfire. Low DPS, longest cooldown if locked. Go buy a rocketeer now. Stomp some on last echo with the Seeker. Now try to do it with EOC and imagine that two years ago it was the only viable way to play the mech, and one of the most unique gameplay, a mix of high accuracy primary with charging and bending and rythm locking with the secondary. And they fuzzy bunnyed it up.

Edited by M4st0d0n, 27 March 2015 - 12:03 PM.

[HugeGuts]

These are the ideas I support for Hellfire changes:

 

Laser guided tracking, similar to the Half Life rocket launcher.

 

Three levels of homing guided tracking. The longer the Hellfire reticule is on a target, the more levels it charges and the more missiles it releases. This means it now takes some aiming skill to maximize damage on a target.

Edited by HugeGuts, 27 March 2015 - 12:08 PM.

[M4st0d0n]

Of course. Make it a sustain weapon with delay with the lowest dps and longest cooldown of this game. They obviously need this rework to be competitive again.

 

I'm out, gonna vomit.

[Brawler_Yukon]

As long as you use bruiser and not rocketeer i'm not going to hate you ^^ lol. For some reason it doesn't bother me that much. rocketeer drives me nuts though and makes me want to rip my hair off. It has that annoying weapon that goes along with the hellfires and it sucks.

 

This is true.

Now imagine if they gave it the raider's white elite skin paintjob.. how cool would that be

Honestly, with the elite skins, black is damn sexy on the Bruiser, I'd really enjoy black on my Raider, more than my Bruiser or Rocketeer(Then again, then the Rocketeer wouldn't be an obvious metal gear Rex joke(Maybe that's just me though.

[Dawn_of_Ash]

#learntododge

 

Still funny how I manage to get an alright score on Bunker in a high tier server. But yes, Hellfires are useless in those games. 

 

 

To be fair, I'm saying that as a low ranked skrub, but whenever I've talked to high level players they seem nonplussed by hf

 

I'm fairly sure that you have a higher MMR than me. XD And here I thought i was mid-tier.

Edited by Dawn_of_Ash, 27 March 2015 - 02:23 PM.