22 replies to this topic

[PoopSlinger]

Given teh success of OW I'd like to propose some changes to make the game a little more accessible to the millions who've gravitated twards games like that.

 

• Remove stats of teammates after matches.  ADH kind of did that during ascension/steam to where you can't see k/d of teammates.  OW does this and it helps people not be discouraged after a bad round.  Also it prevents toxicity from the Milges.
• Bigger hitboxes when in midair.  Hawkens air gameplay is well established and fun; lets not remove it.  Maybe just enlarge the hitboxes so its easier for some people to hit those pesky AC zerkers.
• Robot Auto-Aim during some abilities.  Some would say this would ruin the FPS feel and make the game casual.  BUT nobody minds it in OW.  Besides these are super future robots, why would they not have target aquisition and tracking?
• More AOE style weaponry.  Lets face it, most PC gamers don't have 144hz monitors and fancy GPUs to track fast moving mechs well.  If weapons like the sabot were like Honzo's bow then you'd get some punch even out of slightly missed shots.  You could say the sabot is a very powerful anti-material rifle that can breach most surfaces and that causes damage.

Just some suggestions to bring the game to a larger casual audience.  That audience has fat stacks of cash.

Edited by HonderoDeCaca, 22 June 2016 - 12:22 PM.

[StubbornPuppet]

I'd suggest that they completely remove all stats from the game, especially those which are visible to other players.  Telling people what their (and others) KDR, WLR, Hit% and so forth is has, in video gaming in general, turned online gaming from the fun, casual, refreshing experience that it used to be into the stressful, competitive, negativity driven gripe and hate fest that it is today.

 

Also do away with leaderboards.

 

And while MMR is the best thing we've got for server-controlled matchmaking and team balance, making it possible for people to see it and see that of others creates even more griping and stress.

 

I'd rather we all go back to just saying, "You know what's fun to play?  Online video games.  I think I'll fire one up and have a few laughs shooting it up with some friends!"  Instead of this statistic obsessed neurotic gaming culture we have now.

[Silverfire]

aim assist is all we need

[Hecatoncheires]

I'd suggest that they completely remove all stats from the game, especially those which are visible to other players.  Telling people what their (and others) KDR, WLR, Hit% and so forth is has, in video gaming in general, turned online gaming from the fun, casual, refreshing experience that it used to be into the stressful, competitive, negativity driven gripe and hate fest that it is today.

 

Also do away with leaderboards.

 

And while MMR is the best thing we've got for server-controlled matchmaking and team balance, making it possible for people to see it and see that of others creates even more griping and stress.

 

I'd rather we all go back to just saying, "You know what's fun to play?  Online video games.  I think I'll fire one up and have a few laughs shooting it up with some friends!"  Instead of this statistic obsessed neurotic gaming culture we have now.

I wouldn't say remove all stats from the game because competition can be a great motivater. Instead of KDR and whatnot, Score might be a better value to rank someone by since there are many factors that contribute to a high score (though the equation could still be improved).

I also think they should add an honor system,  similar to the one used in League of Legends, where you can honor a particularly helpful or respectable teammate or enemy. We need to get rid of the things that cause egos and instead add things that encourage respect.

[MomOw]

aim assist is all we need

 

Dual seeker A-class

 

I re-checked and the "smart pistol" in titanfall was a subject of debate, hellfire was a subject of debate, seeker also.

 

So autoaim should be watched closely to reach a good balance.

 

I do agree that the options could be "auto-aim", "hitscan" or "AOE projectile" if you want to increase the playerbase

Edited by (KDR) MomOw, 22 June 2016 - 11:52 PM.

[DemitronPrime]

auto aim?

 

NO.... please no...

 

lets not say " hey you dont need to aimbot anymore because we built it into the game "

 

I mean ffs... worst idea ever, js

[I2DI]

AOE weapons are great, there's not much of them in the game and some of groud control abilities on certain mechs would be fun to see implemented. I like the OP's ideas except the auto-aim. HAWKEN has some weapons with auto-aim, but the majority of their damage can be avoided by better players. It creates a certain skill-ceiling for players who want to deal with auto-aim mechs head on. That's a good thing. What you propose is to add more means of demolishing n00bs.

[MomOw]

What you propose is to add more means of demolishing n00bs.

 

what should be the most 1337 weapon... well... low rof, slow projectile, arc, no AOE...

 

EOC repeater for everyone !

[Hyginos]

[CraftyDus]

OverWatch used to have a scoreboard. It looked like this

Spoiler

.

It hurt too many bad players feelings, and caused skill players to feel a sense of accomplishment that Blizzard decided would be toxic.

And they were right. Skilled players often cry because their success breeds resentment from the filthy casuals in games.

Watch as the 8th best overwatch player in the world is reduced to tears because everyone thinks she is cheating.

 

So you can see how hard it is for competitive Hawken players. It's an emotional rollercoaster.

You begin to feel exuberant joy at successfully crapping on bads, but then it is shattered by hackusations and toxic jealousies.

We simply need to remove these artificial obstacles to a good game.

Take the scoreboard for starters.

 

Hawken needs to cater to the masses.

 

�Competitive environments naturally draw out negativity, and we didn�t want to leave those doors open,�  �We didn�t want to show how many kills each player got, because some characters don�t need to kill to be effective.� -Jeff Kaplan, lead Director, OverWatch

[nepacaka]

Given teh success of OW I'd like to propose some changes to make the game a little more accessible to the millions who've gravitated twards games like that.

 

• Remove stats of teammates after matches.  ADH kind of did that during ascension/steam to where you can't see k/d of teammates.  OW does this and it helps people not be discouraged after a bad round.  Also it prevents toxicity from the Milges.
• Bigger hitboxes when in midair.  Hawkens air gameplay is well established and fun; lets not remove it.  Maybe just enlarge the hitboxes so its easier for some people to hit those pesky AC zerkers.
• Robot Auto-Aim during some abilities.  Some would say this would ruin the FPS feel and make the game casual.  BUT nobody minds it in OW.  Besides these are super future robots, why would they not have target aquisition and tracking?
• More AOE style weaponry.  Lets face it, most PC gamers don't have 144hz monitors and fancy GPUs to track fast moving mechs well.  If weapons like the sabot were like Honzo's bow then you'd get some punch even out of slightly missed shots.  You could say the sabot is a very powerful anti-material rifle that can breach most surfaces and that causes damage.

Just some suggestions to bring the game to a larger casual audience.  That audience has fat stacks of cash.

before I would say - no.

but now I would say - yes.
 

the game is failing twice time in a row as a "competitive shooter". you have to be an idiot to try to resurrect the idea of a competitive game for the third time.

[Hyginos]

 

the game is failing twice time in a row as a "competitive shooter". you have to be an idiot to try to resurrect the idea of a competitive game for the third time.

 

I think it is a bit misleading to say that Hawken failed as a competitive shooter. 

 

Hawken failed. Period. It failed as a mech game, it failed as an F2P game, it failed as a class based arena shooter, and it failed as a franchise not necessarily in the sense that it produced bad content in those areas, but in the sense that it failed to pull population from any of the potential target audiences.

 

The entire thing failed. Actually I would argue that the competitive (or at least organized, such as with community events) part of the game failed the least of the lot, but that is hardly relevant going forward.

[nepacaka]

i think it is still very risky trying to do something like this in 3 times, despite that reason not only in competitve gameplay

Edited by nepacaka, 23 June 2016 - 07:14 AM.

[DeeRax]

 

I was fairly certain this was a troll thread, but not 100%.
Excellent.

[CrimsonKaim]

Given teh success of OW I'd like to propose some changes to make the game a little more accessible to the millions who've gravitated twards games like that.

 

• Remove stats of teammates after matches.  ADH kind of did that during ascension/steam to where you can't see k/d of teammates.  OW does this and it helps people not be discouraged after a bad round.  Also it prevents toxicity from the Milges.
• What do you mean? Just the score? Score means nothing, just how long you have been in this match. Same with battlefield. Ofcourse the ones who spend 20 minutes in Siege will hit the 1000 score easier than those joining 5 minutes before the end. Other than that the stats are already hidden, I still miss the "King of death" at the end of the game pre-ascension. Room of shame basically. :P 
• Bigger hitboxes when in midair.  Hawkens air gameplay is well established and fun; lets not remove it.  Maybe just enlarge the hitboxes so its easier for some people to hit those pesky AC zerkers.
• Totally no. Let's not make this game casual. I do mind the stupid larger hitboxes in OW, it makes it too easy for snipers to achieve headshots, especially as some are hitscan. You can even shoot around cornes ... Oh and btw yes we are in the future but in a setting where resources are limited. For example the grenade launcher launches antique sea mines or the slug rifle consists of old oxygen pipes.
• Robot Auto-Aim during some abilities.  Some would say this would ruin the FPS feel and make the game casual.  BUT nobody minds it in OW.  Besides these are super future robots, why would they not have target aquisition and tracking?
• Rocket and gatling turrel have auto-aim with 100% accuracy ignoring bullet spread. We already have seekers, hellfires, etc. No need for autoaim. No Tactical Visor, thanks. No need. Hawken is already easy enough since the heatsink update and the bullet spread during boost/hover/dodge.
• More AOE style weaponry.  Lets face it, most PC gamers don't have 144hz monitors and fancy GPUs to track fast moving mechs well.  If weapons like the sabot were like Honzo's bow then you'd get some punch even out of slightly missed shots.  You could say the sabot is a very powerful anti-material rifle that can breach most surfaces and that causes damage.
• The only point I agree with you. This "Let's stay together." can't be countered except with an EMP or the 'flashbang' but this, however, requires a good team to react which doesn't exist in Hawken as most are unaware of their surroundings in low-mid tier MMR matches. The Heat is a fart compared to what could be possible. Basically "artillery" weaponary that punishes sticking together for a longer period of time. Either high burst damage (not instantly ofcourse) with a long reload/colldown or an average DPS weaponary that overheats fast.

Just some suggestions to bring the game to a larger casual audience.  That audience has fat stacks of cash.

 

Answers in red. 

 

A final word. All your suggestions would make Hawken easier than it already is. Apart form the last suggestion which basically adds more possibilities to counter the utterly boring "stick together" behavior (adds a little bit of depth) all of your suggestion would make Hawken not challenging at all. 

Considering Reloaded is thinking about Hawken becoming an eSport I would rather have a really difficult game than another League of Legends easy-peasy like game. 

 

See I play OW because my friends play it but alone I rarely play it as it is way too easy. Hitscan auto-snipers, Aiming assistence with ability, passive aiming assistence for all classes, hitscan auto-shotguns, hitscan assault-like-rifles, low TTK in combination with weapon spamming.

 

It has some cool things ofcourse but I really wouldn't recommend it for someone who looks for a game to spend alot of hours on. It is a game you paly from time to time and please, let's not make Hawken a game that will be played from time to time.

Edited by Crimson Kaim, 23 June 2016 - 08:59 AM.

[thedark20]

Some people are giving Hawken too much feeling of "competitiveness". I mean, hawken has a pretty high skill ceilling, but you don't need that much to be competent. There's not much more than the different classes and items the game gives you, Assaults shoots things, Rocketeer shoots homing missiles, Brawler shoots things but goes slow af. The other mechs that have a higher skill ceiling are Predator or Raider for example. We need to stop giving Hawken that feeling of being difficult to start, we need to give the feeling that new players and average players must have fun while playing, they will realize everything by the time they play more.

Yes i left internals behind, but you don't need those to play the game, i've been running without them for like forever, when they where expensive af. We need to begin giving Hawken a bit more of "this game has a low skill gap" but at the same time "you have a lot to discover here, it has a high skill ceilling". Let's not put in their minds that you have to grind that skill.

[CounterlogicMan]

i think it is still very risky trying to do something like this in 3 times, despite that reason not only in competitve gameplay

 

There is nothing financially safe about developing a video game franchise PERIOD. It takes a lot of financial risk, balls of steel, thick skin, and a lot of dedication from really talented people. Even more so when taking on a franchise that you didn't develop initially. Hawken has a lot of potential for success still. It was always a well received game when shown at conferences. It seems to have gotten positive looks this go around and development is being assisted by a well known studio 505 games. Going to consoles is also a really smart move. Guaranteed more exposure and players.

 

I am not quite sure where this second and third failure are coming from. Did you momentarily step into an alternative universe where Hawken development went bankrupt more than once? 

 

 

A final word. All your suggestions would make Hawken easier than it already is. 

 

Hawken isn't easy for a variety of reasons. The controls, the user interface, the large amount of weapon/internal/item options with very little explanations for stats/effects, the skill disparity in any given match, and the style of game itself are just a few reasons. For you, someone who has played a lot of Hawken, sure it is probably easy now. However, the heap of inactive accounts from my more casual pc gaming friends, and the many more players who gave up after only a few matches are a testament to Hawken not being easy for new players. I don't agree with the initial, clearly trolling, suggestions, but I do think that Hawken could benefit from being easier on new players. Preferably in a way that doesn't effect core gameplay.

 

Nice troll thread 6.5/10

Edited by CounterlogicMan, 24 June 2016 - 11:02 AM.

[nepacaka]

All your suggestions would make Hawken easier than it already is

 

pretty sure, 90% players who leave in first day (or even after several hours) don't agree with you.
i think hawken is pretty easy, but many people - no.

[Dawn_of_Ash]

pretty sure, 90% players who leave in first day (or even after several hours) don't agree with you.
i think hawken is pretty easy, but many people - no.

 

The fact is that Hawken is either extremely satisfying or extremely frustrating. Paired up with the fact that the game is not all that easy to pick up (especially if you play games casually) has led to the game not being as successful as it could have been.

 

However, that does begs the question why MOBA games are so popular despite their high skill ceiling and, more commonly than not, having a 10 year old swear at you for being bad at the game with their amazing grammar and spelling. But of course that is another genre of gaming, so it's probably irrelevant when regarding Hawken.

 

What has been proved is that many casuals come to the game because of the fact you are in a mech and people find that "cool" or "epic". If the game had more of a mech feel (like the sounds that were in the game ageeeeeees ago) combined with more forgiving gameplay, the game would be more fun for more people. I agree to an extent to aim-assist in the game, however my view is to have it on the Recruit when it uses it's new ability (Soldier 76 anyone?) and ease new players into the game that way. 

Edited by Dawn_of_Ash, 25 June 2016 - 12:00 AM.

[6ixxer]

if stats after console launch show lots of console pilots gravitating to dual seeker, or seeker and hellfires, as it's the closest they get to aim-assist then it will add weight to the argument for some aim-assist if the game client runs on those platforms, but personally I think that it shouldn't need aim-assist with turn caps and large hitboxes.

 

There is also a Tow V3 buried in the game files, which is a proximity-bursting secondary that I think would have breathed new life into Fred as it seems to have fallen out of favour.

[CrimsonKaim]

 

Hawken isn't easy for a variety of reasons. The controls, the user interface, the large amount of weapon/internal/item options with very little explanations for stats/effects, the skill disparity in any given match, and the style of game itself are just a few reasons. For you, someone who has played a lot of Hawken, sure it is probably easy now. However, the heap of inactive accounts from my more casual pc gaming friends, and the many more players who gave up after only a few matches are a testament to Hawken not being easy for new players. I don't agree with the initial, clearly trolling, suggestions, but I do think that Hawken could benefit from being easier on new players. Preferably in a way that doesn't effect core gameplay.

 

Nice troll thread 6.5/10

 

As long as it is only for beginners, sure, I don't mind but Hawken is easy. It was a bit challenging previously where you would lose accuracy for hovering and dodging, consume fuel for dodging and more for jumping, weapons would build up more heat and won't cooldown to 0% after 3 seconds and some more stuff that all got removed. All these noob-patches made Hawken the easy pubstomp game it is. Yeah sure new players benefit from that but so do us vets when going pubstomping. Easy 1v5, no dodging fuel consumption -> dodge forever, heat cooldown -> shoot forever. 

 

This "Casual players want to have fun too." point is increasingly spreading across gaming platforms and forums like a stupid campaign recently. Casual players are, by definition, players who spend less time in games and do not tryhard while still expecting to be competetive comapred to hardcore gamers. You can tell by the underlined words that this expectation is complete nonesense. Hardcore gamers, who really go tryhard will and should always be superior to casuals for obvious reasons.

Casuals who want to have some fun shooting things can do that by either going PvE or not joining a veteran match in any given game. I do admit that this is not possible in Hawken at this moment as the low players base forces newbies and vets in a single room but in other games this is possible. 

 

However, a word to this "Casual-campaign": Deal with it. No matter if it is Battlefied, Elite: Dangerous, Hawken, Arma, Star Citizen, even League or OW, you may not be given the tools to defeat a hardcore gamer. If you decide to not sharpen your skills you do not deserve a competetive position at all. Stay in your league - you got options to do that. You may not be granted the fun by an unjustified way to suddenly have a chance against players, the hardcore ones, that are obviously better than you, the casual player.

Thank you for understanding and keep on playing. Thank you says the hardcore community, the forum moderators and in some cases even the developers. 

Edited by Crimson Kaim, 25 June 2016 - 01:18 AM.

[wolfrock]

The entire thing failed. Actually I would argue that the competitive (or at least organized, such as with community events) part of the game failed the least of the lot, but that is hardly relevant going forward.

 

As a casual solo 1600 player 300h in at 2 months after steam release (see steamcharts May 2014), I was about to stop playing.  I found TAW and later, other organizations, and had a new love and appreciation for the game which lasted well after "dead" games should last. Clans, competition, community events and the generally well-meaning people who played Hawken were the things that kept me going and were the things that really "unlocked" the game for me. I simply got a lot better at video games as a result. I have no idea how they are going to retain players going forward, but I suppose trying casual / beginner friendly things they haven't tried before is worth a shot, they have nothing to lose. Maybe with increased player pop / retention the game might actually be able to sustain itself and the large community thing will happen again.

Edited by wolfrock, 25 June 2016 - 05:15 AM.

[JackVandal]

 

Tech can't score to much if you can't see techs score.