18 replies to this topic

[ICERAY2000]

How is it that every bot I fire a TOW at can dodge away at the EXACT moment I shoot? Not before, not after, exactly when I shoot? How can they possibly 'know' when I launch? My TOW hits can't be better than 10%. It is not at all, not even remotely close to real game experience, nor bot behavior, imo. It takes a lot of FUN AWAY when your heavy weapon is rendered useless by these DODGE-CRAZY BOTS.

In real games, I never see this behavior, nor do i see the reverse,upwards, backwards leaps onto surfaces they can't even see; then they dodge, jump back down, and start over.

It's absurd. I do not like it at all.

And why does the opposition always always always use more C class than any other?

Any why do Vanguards get to shoot through the walls in Facility?

And why to Vanguards, using a low-accuracy weapon like a flack cannon, NEVER MISS? The low-accuracy alone would imply they CANNOT hit accurately every time, yet you know darn well a pursuing Vanguard BOT NEVER MISSES.

Why did you lower ALL the dodge times? Totally backwards - they need to at least triple the cooldown time on dodging - have you played the A classes that shoot/dodge every second? Ypou can't even see them doing it they're so fast. Totally insulting to the physics of the universe. I hate dodging, you made it worse.

 

Just saying, these things are total fun killers. watch your six.

Bots eat bad oil.

[StubbornPuppet]

How is it that every bot I fire a TOW at can dodge away at the EXACT moment I shoot? Not before, not after, exactly when I shoot? How can they possibly 'know' when I launch?

 

Because they are built into the game... they are programmed to dodge when a press of the fire button is detected.

 

This is part of why I don't play Bots modes - it is bound to develop bad habits because bots don't behave like real players.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

Since for whatever reason, bot-killing is a bigger thing now, some advice:

 

Don't always fire as fast as your weapons cool down.  The bots will dodge, then put your shots where they will end up before they can dodge again.

 

Make your first shot with the secondary, and always command-detonate your ordnance to burst near the target.  Use walls/floors/ceilings to reflect the burst to the target, or damage the enemy behind cover by shooting the rocket/nade past the wall and blowing it up behind the wall so the damage reaches forward to the target.

 

Bots don't move like real players do, nor do they predict what you will do; they only react.  Learn some of their patterns and move to place them at a disadvantage.

 

For your other complaints:  yeah, I've seen miniflak make it through wall cracks.  And it sucks how much louder each shot gets, meant to rattle your nerves.  You're better than allowing such a silly trick to get to you, right? You'll just make zig-zag dodges to get away, and duck behind cover instead of running in a straight line making it easy for the pursuit, right? 

 

Lastly, dodging is *the* core mechanic (combined with turncap).  The skill ceiling is high in the game - some of us can slide/turn/boost dodge while landing primary fire, bounce off walls, and place a perfect TOW/nade/MIRV/Sabot/whatever, and repeat continuously, smoothly.  THAT's the kind of movement you're striving for.  Until you develop it, you have to learn positioning, aim, prediction (means learning the maps).

 

Have fun.  Stick with the game, it's going places - 2017 is supposed to be a great year for Hawken, I hear ;)

[nepacaka]

g2-assault is u fav. gg.

[nepacaka]

- 2k+ bots don't dodge if they don't see "center" of you mech body directly. (you can show only half of body from corner, and they don't start shoot in you, but they will look at you cuz they see you at radar)
- bots can use "predict" attack (shoot near with corner where you trying to came) if they see you at radar right now.
- bots always mark you as #1 enemy if you have higher mmr in team, they will ignore any other target most of time if you stay closer to them.
- if you made a "dominate" on bots, they start always follow you, until not find and kill you. bot know where you are and see you through whole map. they always find you (if other teammates not switch his attention with fire, but anyway after fight he activate his "seek'n'destroy" algorythm)
- scout always dodge after u shoot, just shoot with primary and wait till it waste dodge. sometimes scout don't want dodge, so you can just kill it with 3-4 flak shoot without shooting a tow.
- any bots can dodge only one tow in one time, they never dodge your rockets if they focused on another enemy.
- bots starting have a problem with aim in a moment when you jumping, and have additional time to aim (but not when you always fly). easy to say, bots can't look up.
- bots have a problem with turn cap, but if you stand directly behind bot, it can use 180 and shoot in you at the same second (brawler use this trick to get you flak-TOW combo in face)
- bots ignore you while repairing, if you don't shoot (but stop repair if you near than ~15-20m)
- bots use instant dodge if get hit while repair (shoot you tow before, if you shoot both weapon, bot made instant dodge due it have 0 ping and you miss)
- bruiser stop shooting if you dodge. if you press shift always, he can't shoot in you (most pathetic AI to be honest, this bot need AR or SMC xD)
- rocketer and infil are suicidal minded, allow them killing themselves of you mighty body, while you shoot in other enemy.
- bots always see you (and start shoot immideately) in camouflage ability, if they see how you use it. you should use it behind wall or any cover. trying to runaway with it - waste ability.
- bots always use jump at the same places. except scout. scout can use maneveur like a "jump on you head" in any places of map.
- SS bot can shoot through any "micro-hole" in a walls, if focused on you
- sometimes heavy mech activate "panic" behavior, they press shift+s, and simply truing runaway with boost. they don't shoot or dodge in this mode untill stop, and literally ignore anything.

now u know. they stupid.

Edited by nepacaka, 30 June 2017 - 07:31 AM.

[EM1O]

also nepa has discovered (in plastic mode) that the left and right side panels to the ramps descending to the Facility "basement" are ghost images, and not solid walls.  if you're watching your radar you can shoot them (or any enemy) through those 4 panels.

Edited by EM1O, 30 June 2017 - 10:45 AM.

[nepacaka]

also nepa has discovered (in plastic mode) that the left and right side panels to the ramps descending to the Facility "basement" are ghost images, and not solid walls.  if you're watching your radar you can shoot them (or any enemy) through those 4 panels.

sometimes i shoot in a way from which enemies bullets fly in my face, it working. but better way not fight in this place, due the bots with their aim more effective with facility wall shooting than you)

[Sorroritas]

*snip*
now u know. they stupid.

Bots have feelings too, you know.

 

#botsarestupid

#whosyourdaddy

[coldform]

uh.. bots aren't separate "players". they're running on the same server that your playing on.  and since the server reads your dodges, it isn't too far of a stretch for the bots to be programmed to detect when you're looking at them (collision detection) and simply dodge when the server gets the message "hey, this guy fired a tow in this direction", and have the bots dodge accordingly.

 

also, flak cannons aren't low accuracy.

 

and dodging is a key element of the game's core mechanics. learning to use it effectively is half the battle.

 

the other half is landing your shots.

 

Edited by coldform, 04 July 2017 - 12:35 PM.

[ICERAY2000]

Good replies, in fact, surprisingly helpful replies; thanks! To nepacaka, to say bots are dumb and then list a screenfull of their abilities is illogical; you made a better case for "bots are brilliantly programmed"

I have deep issues with DODGE.

First of all it's just physically, impossibly stupid. The physics involved are silly/ridiculous/preposterous.

Second, no matter how small and powerful you could make technology that can slam you 13 meters in the opposite direction every second, on the third dodge your brains would still be soup.

Third, Where does this energy/ability come from? A fired dev's imagination - dodging -  it's impossible!

 

I do not dodge. On principle. It's ridiculous - oh, I already said that.

Fourth, you don't need dodge.

Fifth, Air Dodge is even more preposterous! As if...  on a gravity world, dodging would kill everyone who tried it.

 

I'm sorry, did I go off on dodging again? I'll just get down off this tired horse, put the soapbox in t he corner and go explore Uptown, one more time...alone...not dodging a thing along the way. Apologies.

[Amidatelion]

I refuse to play the game properly and am going to be vocal about it.

Oh, you're gonna be popular.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

I do not dodge. On principle. It's ridiculous - oh, I already said that.

Fourth, you don't need dodge.

 

Oh my.  You rebel, you don't need to top the scoreboard, you're your own person.

[Lion_ThunderPants]

The game takes place on a made up planet with crazy physics and the materials mechs are made out of are some fantasy featherweight magic metal. The idea of mechs alone is ridiculous. You're playing the wrong game if realism is your thing.

[DeltaBravo]

No doubt.  Mechs, realistically, would be large, lumbering behemoths, not the agile brutes that they are in-game.  I guess that is part of the appeal.

[coldform]

No doubt.  Mechs, realistically, would be large, lumbering behemoths, not the agile brutes that they are in-game.  I guess that is part of the appeal.

 

 

the thing is, dodging is a core gameplay mechanic. so, you are denying yourself an entire aspect of the game - one that has been discussed at length, with all sorts of theorycrafting centering on this one mechanic, and so many pilots practicing and honing the skill of using the dodge.

 

why on earth would you self-handicap to this extent?

[DeltaBravo]

To clarify, dodging is the appealing part of the game.  I even catch myself trying to dodge in other games.

[6ixxer]

When I do quick lane changes in my car I mentally make the dodge sound...

O_o

... I wish my car had Heat + GL.

[Lion_ThunderPants]

When I do quick lane changes in my car I mentally make the dodge sound...

O_o

... I wish my car had Heat + GL.

And here I thought I was crazy..

[6ixxer]

I have never claimed to be sane...