123 replies to this topic

[Superkamikazee]

I feel the same way.  Team modes felt a lot better/less cheesy before the tech was implemented.  

 

Agreed. Not a fan of tech cheese.

[Onstrava]

As a question, when it comes to being "new player friendly and unfriendly", when the RoF was slow did we have as much players leaving matches as we do currently? I find thats it's always a double edge sword when it comes to increasing/decreasing the speed on movement/RoF. If you make to movement/dodge to fast then newer players may find the learning curve to high. Since there shots keep missing, making them frustrated. Increase the RoF to high then newer players may leave because they can't dodge and they're getting hit to much. I find that when it comes to newer players there movement/dodge isn't as finely tuned as a veterans. There aim seems to be fine though but they don't seem to dodge very much. So with this I have to ask, if you where to increase the cooldown of dodging on all the mechs to aproximatly near the ToW missile, do you think the newer player would stick around longer? Since they have a better chance to compete with veterans who have finely tuned there movements already. If you wonder why I'm not talking about us veterans is because though the ups and downs of hawken we usually stick around or come back lurking to see if anything has changed. Hopefully we don't turn this into a movement thread but I was just wonder what you all think about such a change.

Edited by Onstrava, 05 April 2015 - 04:49 PM.

[Hijinks_The_Turtle]

*snip*

It's not dodge rate we're talking about increasing (well, from what I participated in this thread so far).  I think we're talking more of the rate of fire on weapons.  It was about lowering the rate of fire on weapons so newbies have a chance to retaliate and at the same time, learn how to aim better with the weapons.  Also, the newbies wouldn't be slaughtered with tons of secondary fire being shot at them as well with this change.

Edited by Hijinks_The_Turtle, 05 April 2015 - 04:53 PM.

[Onstrava]

It's not dodge rate we're talking about increasing (well, from what I participated in this thread so far).  I think we're talking more of the rate of fire on weapons.  It was about lowering the rate of fire on weapons so newbies have a chance to retaliate and at the same time, learn how to aim better with the weapons.  Also, the newbies wouldn't be slaughtered with tons of secondary fire being shot at them as well with this change.nvm

Okay, I can see lowering the rate of firing being a good overall thing and as a added plus, increasing ones survivability, the only thing that concerns me about this is the already low firing rate on some mechs secondary i.e the G2 raider, pred and SS. I'm not sure about the G2 assualt but I can see a major problem when comes to killing the tech combination mechs if this was put in without some kind of change on there healing.

Edited by Onstrava, 05 April 2015 - 05:13 PM.

[AsianJoyKiller]

It's not dodge rate we're talking about increasing (well, from what I participated in this thread so far).

Technically the thread is just about any sort of pacing issue beyond movement speed, so technically dodge rate could be included. However, I don't think many people would want the dodge rate changed. Mostly because it's in a decent place for both higher and lower skilled players at the moment. Tune it faster, and you're going to piss off people. Tune it slower, and you're going to piss off people.

Anyway, RoF on secondaries is mostly what's being discussed right now, and for good reason. It is a major factor in how "fast" the game feels.

And if I had to sum up how Hawken combat feels at the moment in a word, it would be "spammy".

[MomOw]

speed, dodge rate, TTK, rof are tied together. The actual balance is not bad, good players are good, players with lower skills still have a chance to hit with a TOW and a A-class is hard to hit.

 

I don't get the true point of this topic, do you want good players to be more efficient on alpha strike while fuzzy bunny dodging all secondaries or do you want to nerf the TOW/GL DPS as they are too easy to use ?

 

P.S.: This is spammy

 

[deidarall]

A ton of stuff has changed the pacing. 

 

The fact that sustained weps are more common. The air stuff and how that effects movement. The weapon raise delay. The way items work with a seven second cool down. (And are also spammed) 

 

But your right AJK a big one is the rate of fire on the secondary weapons. But I would argue that items are of the same nature currently, every seven seconds players can throw out a item that has the power to turn a fight, multiply this for a team and this adds to the "Spammy" feeling. Also I would like to point out items are some of the most powerful tools in game for turning the tide of a fight. Personally I would say that is also a major factor in how the game feels "fast" or "spammy" as well. Not to mention it is a bit of a backwards resource management system in a ton of cases, you are wasting your items if you do not shoot em out and are too careful with em before you die. Which is not how a resource manage system should be in my view. 

 

 

EDIT:

speed, dodge rate, TTK, rof are tied together. The actual balance is not bad, good players are good, players with lower skills still have a chance to hit with a TOW and a A-class is hard to hit.

 

 

 

Balance and pacing are separate in some regards. For example if one removes radar for all mechs, it is still balanced, but pacing is changed greatly, and may not be the best choice from a pacing point of view, even if it is "balanced".

Edited by deidarall, 05 April 2015 - 06:36 PM.

[LoC_TR]

As a question, when it comes to being "new player friendly and unfriendly", when the RoF was slow did we have as much players leaving matches as we do currently? I find thats it's always a double edge sword when it comes to increasing/decreasing the speed on movement/RoF. If you make to movement/dodge to fast then newer players may find the learning curve to high. Since there shots keep missing, making them frustrated. Increase the RoF to high then newer players may leave because they can't dodge and they're getting hit to much. I find that when it comes to newer players there movement/dodge isn't as finely tuned as a veterans. There aim seems to be fine though but they don't seem to dodge very much. So with this I have to ask, if you where to increase the cooldown of dodging on all the mechs to aproximatly near the ToW missile, do you think the newer player would stick around longer? Since they have a better chance to compete with veterans who have finely tuned there movements already. If you wonder why I'm not talking about us veterans is because though the ups and downs of hawken we usually stick around or come back lurking to see if anything has changed. Hopefully we don't turn this into a movement thread but I was just wonder what you all think about such a change.

 

 

Okay we don't want to mix anything up here, we're speaking about pace generally this involves many variables such as; fuel, health, RoF, movement speed, damage and distance. The endgame is to have a system where all of these properties are balanced at a happy medium. So by slowing rate of fire and increasing dmg (scale health probably..) we create an environment where it is important to make well timed shots and well timed dodges. 

 

As far as New player vs Vet player experience, you want the game to feel the same to everyone, unfortunately there is a steep learning curve in Hawken so I think it will be necessary regardless of any changes, that Reloaded implement advanced tutorials. There is just a canyon of knowledge thats just never explained, and can be quite difficult to wrap your head around. lol. 

 

Break-the-turn-cap - what's that?

Edited by LoC_TR, 05 April 2015 - 06:39 PM.

[AsianJoyKiller]

I don't get the true point of this topic, do you want good players to be more efficient on alpha strike while fuzzy bunny dodging all secondaries or do you want to nerf the TOW/GL DPS as they are too easy to use ?

The point of the OP is just to raise awareness that while we often talk about whether or not Hawken is "too fast", we rarely talk about any other factors of pacing except movement.

 

The true point of the topic is to be a conversation starter.

[deidarall]

Okay. Here's the thing. The older, slower firing secondaries also did a ton more damage, and we had higher armor values. It's part of the reason that they fired so slowly.

 

 

 

Also the bigger splash is a important factor. Air burst TOWS in the early builds where very dependable for doing damage, much much more so than now. Same with GL. 

Edited by deidarall, 05 April 2015 - 06:47 PM.

[DieselCat]

I'd like to see the AOE on the TOW and GL slightly increased, while slightly decreasing the RoF on the TOW (seems most agree that it's a bit too fast at it's current rate).

As for the GL, I feel that if it's RoF is slowed any more than it is now it might hinder the mechs effectiveness  that currently use it, as it seems slow enough as it is.

 

*+

[(KDR) Seron16]

Back in the CBs and beginning of OB to a little bit later, a fight between two Mechs was more like a game of chess. You timed, traded, and dodged shots in a very tactical manner, and while most of the time the primary weapons were doing enough damage to keep both players worried and duking it out, it was those one or two critical hits from the enemy's powerful secondary that would decide the fight, either by you missing them or them hitting you. This was never more true than in a fight club 1 v1 kind of scenario (which occurred a lot in pub play). That has ceased to be the case, now its just constant damage and chaos, trying to just move as quickly as possible to evade all enemy fire while throwing everything at the enemy repeatedly, because in a second you'll have another TOW to shoot at him, and another second from then you'll have another.
 

To me it used to be more like two super armored US Bradley "tanks" (Fighting vehicle platform is the correct term) fighting each other. Both Bradley's are driving around, poking out from cover, firing at each other with the primary 25mm gun, damaging each other slowly, but due to the ridiculous amount of armor, they know that its going to be a while to get a kill.

 

That is unless they can get a hit with one of their only two TOW missiles they have each. It takes a while to reload the second one once the first is fired, and once both are shot, they're out! They need to take their time, move into the best position, and take the shot, all while denying the enemy the chance for a good shot. So thye're both juking each other out, taking risky moves for a better return, while their hearts are racing, their palms sweating, and the battle is long enough for them to notice it! (Cause you know, we are kind of in big giant, metal, mechs, not flimsy exoskeletons.  )

 

Nowadays it feels more like two M1 Abrams tanks just firing their main guns at each other while calling in continuous artillery fire all over the enemy. Sure the odds are close and the battle could go either way and its exciting! But it all just depends on who can throw more crap at the enemy and get lucky driving in circles dodging the endless artillery...

 

To me, I preferred the old kind of fight, which we've slowly moved away from.

[Grizzled]

AJK, you hit it on the head. 

 

Personally, I would play more Hawken if I could find a server within say 4 or 5 thousand miles that had players. Offered pie in the sky? I would like pacing to slow a little, not all on movement, some on secondary. I want resource management back, and balanced, it used to be one of the major selling points of the game, it was strategic as much as twitch. 

[DerMax]

I'd like to add that, in addition to cooldowns, the pace is affected by the boost delay.

[MomOw]

The point of the OP is just to raise awareness that while we often talk about whether or not Hawken is "too fast", we rarely talk about any other factors of pacing except movement.

 

The true point of the topic is to be a conversation starter.

 

Thanks for the explanation!

 

I still don't think that more burst power will make me enjoy the game more except for specific Mechs, at least as long as the game is not smooth enough, higher rof allows to play with 20FPS, 90 ping and some game glitches (such as invisible TOW, I dunno if it's due to packet loss).

 

I think that making the heat management more consistent should lead to a rof reduction (as a side effect) while being new user friendly as they could practice aiming in a positive way (hitting their ennemies) and then learn to make every shot efficient (avoid spamming to win a duel).

 

Obviously "orblording" has to be solved before decreasing the time to overheat.

Edited by MomOw, 06 April 2015 - 02:49 AM.

[defekt]

One of my favourite topics throughout the developmental life of this game has been 'the dance': the ballet of bullets and high explosives where the guy with the best all round package of timing, accuracy, and agility walked away from an engagement not only as the victor but also not as an automatic victim to the counter-attack.

 

 

The dance existed for one reason: to avoid being hit by hard-hitting Secondary weapons. Once a pilot reaches a certain level of skill s/he rarely misses with Primary weapons; if you can see your target you can generally hit your target with a Primary. We didn't learn to dance to avoid Primary weapons. Furthermore, when healing was rare and risky you really, really did not want to lose a big chunk of your health to a Secondary impact.

 

The dance defined the pace of Hawken. The dance also provided the spectacle. The dance, when performed well, was something of an art form that required long hours of training to perfect. Simply put: the dance was the skill that kept you alive in Hawken.

 

By turning Secondaries away from being the hard-hitting, slow RoF, heat-generating beasts that they were, into fast RoF, low damage spammy AoE the dance lost a lot of the finesse that it once had. 

 

By making healing abundant and cheap it really doesn't matter all that much if you take heavy damage away with you after an engagement because salvation, in one form or another, is now only a few short seconds away. As a direct result of such things the dance lost another reason for being.

 

By taking 'heat' out of the resource management equation it also took the heat out of the dance.  A good dance is as much about the natural pauses as it is about the cut'n'thrusts; it altered the pace in a negative way.

 

Fortunately mech speeds and dodge cooldown are in a pretty good place today in so far as the dance is concerned.

 

If the Hawken stage is ever likely to be graced by the presence of the glorious ballet of times bygone then I suggest that the following take place, as a minimum:-

1. Revert the general philosophy of Secondary weapons back to being the hard-hitting, slow RoF, significant heat-generating, skill-shot monsters that every pilot should be very concerned about avoiding being hit by.

2. Make healing rare and risky again.

3. The more mobility options a pilot has the more glorious the dance will be � just don't gate mobility behind progression.

4. Never, ever give a mech the option to be able to retreat at speed whilst still being able to lay down DPS on its peruser(s), as the current air game allows for some mechs.

Edited by defekt, 06 April 2015 - 03:23 AM.

[OmniOuranos]

I think "retreat at speed" is an exaggeration when it comes to the current air game.

[deidarall]

The dance existed for one reason: to avoid being hit by hard-hitting Secondary weapons. Once a pilot reaches a certain level of skill s/he rarely misses with Primary weapons; if you can see your target you can generally hit your target with a Primary. We didn't learn to dance to avoid Primary weapons. Furthermore, when healing was rare and risky you really, really did not want to lose a big chunk of your health to a Secondary impact.

 

The dance defined the pace of Hawken. The dance also provided the spectacle. The dance, when performed well, was something of an art form that required long hours of training to perfect. Simply put: the dance was the skill that kept you alive in Hawken.

 

By turning Secondaries away from being the hard-hitting, slow RoF, heat-generating beasts that they were, into fast RoF, low damage spammy AoE the dance lost a lot of the finesse that it once had. 

 

By making healing abundant and cheap it really doesn't matter all that much if you take heavy damage away with you after an engagement because salvation, in one form or another, is now only a few short seconds away. As a direct result of such things the dance lost another reason for being.

 

By taking 'heat' out of the resource management equation it also took the heat out of the dance.  A good dance is as much about the natural pauses as it is about the cut'n'thrusts; it altered the pace in a negative way.

 

Fortunately mech speeds and dodge cooldown are in a pretty good place today in so far as the dance is concerned.

 

If the Hawken stage is ever likely to be graced by the presence of the glorious ballet of times bygone then I suggest that the following take place, as a minimum:-

1. Revert the general philosophy of Secondary weapons back to being the hard-hitting, slow RoF, significant heat-generating, skill-shot monsters that every pilot should be very concerned about avoiding being hit by.

2. Make healing rare and risky again.

3. The more mobility options a pilot has the more glorious the dance will be � just don't gate mobility behind progression.

4. Never, ever give a mech the option to be able to retreat at speed whilst still being able to lay down DPS on its peruser(s), as the current air game allows for some mechs.

 

1. Also the usage of stutter step. I made a vid on that a good while ago. Note the lack of air retreat in this build, and note how often I am using items to stay alive. *cough* Basically it let CQC mechs press a fight a lot better than they do now, and when that got "fixed" air was buffed as well.....

Meaning that play style died. Pretty much :P 

 

 

 

 

I think "retreat at speed" is an exaggeration when it comes to the current air game.

 

 

 

If it was a standing retreat it would not be a issue. But the fact is a person can sort of just hop up into the air for distance and sort of press space bar once in the air so retreat in  some manner. That does a big number on the pacing in my eyes. That keeping distance is so simple.

Edited by deidarall, 06 April 2015 - 04:07 AM.

[Nept]

I think "retreat at speed" is an exaggeration when it comes to the current air game.

 

Not only is this guy correct, but he sounds both handsome and intelligent.

[defekt]

I think "retreat at speed" is an exaggeration when it comes to the current air game.

Last time I played Zerkers could backdrift quickly.  If that's changed since then I accept the correction.

[LoC_TR]

Thanks for the explanation!

 

 

I think that making the heat management more consistent should lead to a rof reduction (as a side effect) while being new user friendly as they could practice aiming in a positive way (hitting their ennemies) and then learn to make every shot efficient (avoid spamming to win a duel).

 

 

Hmmmm.. not necessarily. I think you're on the right track though, Heat is not an especially hard to manage in the current meta, it's easy to just stop shooting and for 3 seconds. If secondary heat was more punishing I think one would have to be more mindful of how much he/she spams, provided we have higher cool downs on weapons. 

 

If you just raised heat without adjusting CD's you'd just get bursts of spam, 3 sec pauses, and then more spam. Not unlike what we have now. 

 

Spoiler

 

 

Last time I played Zerkers could backdrift quickly.  If that's changed since then I accept the correction.

 

 

 

Oh it's still quite quick but I would say it's kinda clumsy, and only really useful in large open maps. Plus people have learned to just wait until it's done flying and kill it while it has no fuel.

Edited by LoC_TR, 06 April 2015 - 02:56 PM.

[SciFiFanatic]

So - given this topic - and maybe just a very simplistic solution (since the game seems pretty balanced, but brutally fast); what if all armor was simply increased by 15%-20% across the board? Would that slow down the game by something like 10-ish percent (given often you get "over-killed" and would not have survived the barrage even with a slight armor boost)?

 

The best retaining game in the category (using "category" loosely here) is World of Tanks. It peaked at 500,000 CCU. The pace of fighting in WoT can be intense, but the movement speed is obviously so much slower than Hawken. And there is no point in becoming MWO. But could the game use a slightly longer TTK?

 

So experienced players; would increasing armor be a reasonable and simple approach to retain SOME of the high speed pace of Hawken, while extending TTK slightly, making the game just slightly slower, and giving new players a slightly longer time in game? Thoughts? 

 

20% boost to Armor?

[Loglino]

So - given this topic - and maybe just a very simplistic solution (since the game seems pretty balanced, but brutally fast); what if all armor was simply increased by 15%-20% across the board? Would that slow down the game by something like 10-ish percent (given often you get "over-killed" and would not have survived the barrage even with a slight armor boost)?

 

*snipped*

I think it might do some good to increase the armor a little bit. Just today I accidentally ran out of place and literally got killed in less than a second by a very concentrated burst of firepower from about 4 mechs. I think it might help to reduce that feeling, because getting hit head on by a tow and a couple of missiles is enough to make you run for your life.

[AsianJoyKiller]

So - given this topic - and maybe just a very simplistic solution (since the game seems pretty balanced, but brutally fast); what if all armor was simply increased by 15%-20% across the board? Would that slow down the game by something like 10-ish percent (given often you get "over-killed" and would not have survived the barrage even with a slight armor boost)?

 

The best retaining game in the category (using "category" loosely here) is World of Tanks. It peaked at 500,000 CCU. The pace of fighting in WoT can be intense, but the movement speed is obviously so much slower than Hawken. And there is no point in becoming MWO. But could the game use a slightly longer TTK?

 

So experienced players; would increasing armor be a reasonable and simple approach to retain SOME of the high speed pace of Hawken, while extending TTK slightly, making the game just slightly slower, and giving new players a slightly longer time in game? Thoughts? 

 

20% boost to Armor?

I personally believe it would benefit from a higher TTK.
I don't believe it would solve all the pacing issues, such as the the feeling of being constantly bombarded, and the concept that it's just as good to fire and miss as it is to hold on for a better shot.

Most importantly, I think it's worth trying.

[M4st0d0n]

Oh yeah. 20% more health pool for the orblord. And techballs on origin. So much fun.

 

Facepalm.

[LoC_TR]

So - given this topic - and maybe just a very simplistic solution (since the game seems pretty balanced, but brutally fast); what if all armor was simply increased by 15%-20% across the board? Would that slow down the game by something like 10-ish percent (given often you get "over-killed" and would not have survived the barrage even with a slight armor boost)?

 

The best retaining game in the category (using "category" loosely here) is World of Tanks. It peaked at 500,000 CCU. The pace of fighting in WoT can be intense, but the movement speed is obviously so much slower than Hawken. And there is no point in becoming MWO. But could the game use a slightly longer TTK?

 

So experienced players; would increasing armor be a reasonable and simple approach to retain SOME of the high speed pace of Hawken, while extending TTK slightly, making the game just slightly slower, and giving new players a slightly longer time in game? Thoughts? 

 

20% boost to Armor?

 

 

I personally believe it would benefit from a higher TTK.
I don't believe it would solve all the pacing issues, such as the the feeling of being constantly bombarded, and the concept that it's just as good to fire and miss as it is to hold on for a better shot.

Most importantly, I think it's worth trying.

 

I think it's a step in the right direction but you want to be careful, the extra armor may help users engage more aggressively, but once players adjust they'll basically take a step back because they know it will take an extra shot to kill them now. So by increasing armor you've only really changed where people position themselves, they still have to avoid spam, now this will also increase the amount of heat you use because it takes longer to kill someone. 

 

This not necessarily an issues with C's either since they're soo slow, by increasing their armor you'd only make it harder to kill these players. For C's speed and movement are less of a priority than positioning and your ability to follow up an attack.

 

If you need me to clarify anything just ask.

 

Edit: alsoooo this would also exacerbate issues with burst vs sustained.. One burst from a Raider MIRV/T-32 will do less damage now. That is why we want to find a better balance between RoF and everything else.

 

I'm not sure how much old gameplay you've guys/gals have watched from older builds but this is just after Ascension (Nov 2013) but back then Health was higher, RoF was higher, heat was higher, TTK is slower, items were on CD, ground dodges were still attached to fuel. Basically all the engagements we have today are elongated. 

 

Edited by LoC_TR, 06 April 2015 - 06:01 PM.

[(P:B)Augmentia]

Here's the thing. I wouldn't mind everything speeding up at least 1.4X the speed it actually is right now. The reason for this is the following:

 

- Reflexes get better

- Games are a bit quicker

- It becomes more of skills then ever before

 

I had an idea while typing this.

What if the speed of the game is determined by your MMR? You get better, then the games get faster, then it becomes harder, and a totally new plateau of skill becomes involved. This is interesting, I will open a seperate thread for this idea.

[LoC_TR]

 

 

I had an idea while typing this.

What if the speed of the game is determined by your MMR? You get better, then the games get faster, then it becomes harder, and a totally new plateau of skill becomes involved. This is interesting, I will open a seperate thread for this idea.

 

 

Gahhh no, haha, just no.  There just needs to be more tutorials for newer players haha, basics and advanced tactics, mostly so a player doesn't feel he has to visit youtube everytime he needs to learn something.

[Hijinks_The_Turtle]

Here's the thing. I wouldn't mind everything speeding up at least 1.4X the speed it actually is right now. The reason for this is the following:

 

- Reflexes get better

- Games are a bit quicker

- It becomes more of skills then ever before

 

I had an idea while typing this.

What if the speed of the game is determined by your MMR? You get better, then the games get faster, then it becomes harder, and a totally new plateau of skill becomes involved. This is interesting, I will open a seperate thread for this idea.

Watch the amount of returning and newbie players plummet.  We don't want it to be too fast.  The current speed is fine.

 

 

 

SciFiFanatic, on 06 Apr 2015 - 6:08 PM, said:

So - given this topic - and maybe just a very simplistic solution (since the game seems pretty balanced, but brutally fast); what if all armor was simply increased by 15%-20% across the board? Would that slow down the game by something like 10-ish percent (given often you get "over-killed" and would not have survived the barrage even with a slight armor boost)?

 

The best retaining game in the category (using "category" loosely here) is World of Tanks. It peaked at 500,000 CCU. The pace of fighting in WoT can be intense, but the movement speed is obviously so much slower than Hawken. And there is no point in becoming MWO. But could the game use a slightly longer TTK?

 

So experienced players; would increasing armor be a reasonable and simple approach to retain SOME of the high speed pace of Hawken, while extending TTK slightly, making the game just slightly slower, and giving new players a slightly longer time in game? Thoughts? 

 

20% boost to Armor?

 

 

I'm reluctant on this.

Edited by Hijinks_The_Turtle, 06 April 2015 - 06:28 PM.

[kasei]

Here's the thing. I wouldn't mind everything speeding up at least 1.4X the speed it actually is right now. The reason for this is the following:
 
- Reflexes get better
- Games are a bit quicker
- It becomes more of skills then ever before
 
I had an idea while typing this.
What if the speed of the game is determined by your MMR? You get better, then the games get faster, then it becomes harder, and a totally new plateau of skill becomes involved. This is interesting, I will open a seperate thread for this idea.

[Xacius]

So - given this topic - and maybe just a very simplistic solution (since the game seems pretty balanced, but brutally fast); what if all armor was simply increased by 15%-20% across the board? Would that slow down the game by something like 10-ish percent (given often you get "over-killed" and would not have survived the barrage even with a slight armor boost)?

 

The best retaining game in the category (using "category" loosely here) is World of Tanks. It peaked at 500,000 CCU. The pace of fighting in WoT can be intense, but the movement speed is obviously so much slower than Hawken. And there is no point in becoming MWO. But could the game use a slightly longer TTK?

 

So experienced players; would increasing armor be a reasonable and simple approach to retain SOME of the high speed pace of Hawken, while extending TTK slightly, making the game just slightly slower, and giving new players a slightly longer time in game? Thoughts? 

 

20% boost to Armor?

 

I'm all for a 20% boost to armor.  A's are just a bit too weak at the moment, and a slight boost would give them more staying power, even if it's a relative gain.  At that, it may just serve to make sustained weapons more powerful than they already are (more health = higher dps shows more).  I'd recommend a slight nerf to sustained (3-4dps per weapon, depending on the weapon) to complement the armor change.  

Edited by Xacius, 06 April 2015 - 06:06 PM.

[Lightangel112]

I have not been around long enough as the other veterans, but I do agree on their sentiments. The one thing that really made the game worse was rewarding mistakes with a pls try again dial. I hated that the previous team changed the entire item sytem, it became dull, boring, predictable. Remember the times when you had a MK3 Shield, MK3 Detonator that could deal and hold off dmg? An MK1 EMP was no match for an MK3 Shield nor could it touch it's occupant, this is now lacking. Less options, no more custom builds (got removed) due to the speeds and with good reason lol. I want the game to feel like it's a real tactical shooter where premeditation & preparations mean something, not a typical spray and fray etc.

 

I want items to be reverted to the way they have always been single use, 2 slots MK1 weak dmg/aor, 3 slots MK2 mid dmg/aoe, 4 slots MK3 strong dmg/aoe.

Movement speeds in general are all good from the amount of experience I've had with it, not the previous ascensions though! I would like for fuel management to return, I agree with the vets, the game overall is too spammy. Too much ROF on secondaries & Items! Reduce that fuzzy bunny please!!!

 

Increasing health slightly to compensate for the slower but higher burst secondary weps would be more ideal than by itself, what would that accomplish but give people who land hits more frustrated they could not finish off their target before getting turned to flames. The one mech I enjoy is Predator, for the sole reason that I have to use my brain to pilot it, I want to use my brain while in combat as well not just, oh let me out DPS you lol :(

[bacon_avenger]

 

I want items to be reverted to the way they have always been single use, 2 slots MK1 weak dmg/aor, 3 slots MK2 mid dmg/aoe, 4 slots MK3 strong dmg/aoe.

This, no, please no.

 

Vertical progression is bad, m'kay?  We have a minimal amount of it now and it's mostly harmless (I'd not mind seeing all of it go away, but that's another thread), I don't want to see anything coming back from the patch of market... err, ascension

[LoC_TR]

 

 

I want items to be reverted to the way they have always been single use, 2 slots MK1 weak dmg/aor, 3 slots MK2 mid dmg/aoe, 4 slots MK3 strong dmg/aoe.

Movement speeds in general are all good from the amount of experience I've had with it, not the previous ascensions though! I would like for fuel management to return, I agree with the vets, the game overall is too spammy. Too much ROF on secondaries & Items! Reduce that fuzzy bunny please!!!

 

 

This, no, please no.

 

Vertical progression is bad, m'kay?  We have a minimal amount of it now and it's mostly harmless (I'd not mind seeing all of it go away, but that's another thread), I don't want to see anything coming back from the patch of market... err, ascension

Ya i'm not sure thats necessary either, but it's something to keep in mind!

[MomOw]

+20% of health will lead to 400/640/900 average health that's what was discussed on other thread, so OK let's try !

 

the higher TTK also means :

- tech will take longer to completely heal (somewhat a nerf as all other weapons)

- orbs will also be "less" efficient (heal less % of health).

- more heat management

[Hijinks_The_Turtle]

Hm.  Now that I think about it... It does solve some of the problems of the things being discussed here.  No doubt, the reason why it's suggested is because it's easier to implement than having to redo the firerate of the weapons when they were made that way for a reason.  I just want a less spammy game though.  It's fun to spam weapons, but sometimes it does get frustrating when you get hit by 3 TOWs at the same time.

[Nept]

Couple things concern me about the proposed armour increase, but I'm way too tired to comment on them.  Tomorrow.

 

*Edit* Xacius is fat.

Edited by Nept, 06 April 2015 - 10:31 PM.

[Xacius]

Couple things concern me about the proposed armour increase, but I'm way too tired to comment on them.  Tomorrow.  

 

*Edit* Xacius is fat.

 

**Edit** Decided to make a post.  My primary concern is that a universal increase to armor will disrupt the current weapon balance.    As a sharpshooter main, I like being able to two-shot players.  I like being able to completely shut down a team from halfway across the map.  The more armor you give players, the less of an impact I can make with my burst weaponry.  After all, the Sharpshooter boasts the lowest DPS in the game.  Yes, even the Technician does more damage.  I feel that skewing the current balance will hurt the game more than help it, despite the following conditions: 

 

 

 

Classic Nept, making everything about himself.  

[LoC_TR]

Classic Nept, making everything about himself.  

 

Obligatory

 

[Nept]

God, I'm so fat.

 

Right?