105 replies to this topic

[dEd101]

I'd say impose class based stats on all weapons. So brawler flak packs more of a punch than scout flak. Same for tow.

Base weapon damage by class. C class does most damage, then B, then A. Simple and easier to balance.

[davek1979]

Look boys, I play a lvl 18 Recruit and I don't give a damn what you throw at me in close quarters 1v1.

When I lose in such fight, it's:
1, me having a really damaged armor
2, me being out of fuel
3, me being peppered by someone else from a distance - my most likely cause of death btw
4, me being drunk and not giving a damn about my performance

It's always me. Not my weapons. Not my choice of mech. Me.

[Dogzer]

davek1979, on January 31 2013 - 02:28 AM, said:

Look boys, I play a lvl 18 Recruit and I don't give a damn what you throw at me in close quarters 1v1.

When I lose in such fight, it's:
1, me having a really damaged armor
2, me being out of fuel
3, me being peppered by someone else from a distance - my most likely cause of death btw
4, me being drunk and not giving a damn about my performance

It's always me. Not my weapons. Not my choice of mech. Me.

Wait until you become a level 25 recruit, and see yourself defenseless against a level 10 scout.

-

And what about high level sharpshooters_

Not long ago I realized why sometimes I kickass in a match, and other times I'm completely helpless.

Scouts aside. I've noticed there's not a chance in hell I can take on a level 25 sharpshooter with a level 25 recruit, even less a berserker.

Sharpshooter weapon makes as much damage as the TOW missile,  think, maybe more, one shot takes like 200 damage on my recruit. I see my health go from 709 to 400something, 200something, boom I'm dead.

When with my minigun I need a constant flow of hits at close range for a total 6 seconds aprox. to make a full kill (and I'm optimized for full damage). Which is very difficult to do. And at long range it's almost useless.

Why is sniper's fire rate so much faster than tow missiles, much more accurate, instant hit, and make as much damage if not more_ Is it me or this is crazy_
Why even bother getting to level 25 if I'll never be able to take on some mechs unless we outnumber them_

Edited by Dogzer, January 31 2013 - 02:40 AM.

[RisorialScion]

RoF of Sabot (which I assume you mean) isn't way faster than TOW. On top of that, you need to stand still AND scope in to make Sabot actually hit where you want it to hit, this is not the case for TOW. On top of THAT, TOW can be detonated mid-air and has splash, means if you launch it, theres a good possibility you miss by a good chunk and still do nice damage. If you miss with Sabot, you are most probably dead while loading the next bullet if you don't take cover immediately (if you can).

Or to quote Eminem, former master of the Sharpshooter:

Quote

Look, if you had one shot, or one opportunity
To seize everything you ever wanted
in one moment
Can you capture it
Or just let it slip_
Yo.

Playing a Scout with TOW is Hawken: Easy Mode.

Edited by RisorialScion, January 31 2013 - 03:27 AM.

[Rei]

Honestly, I hope they remove flak from the scout and give it something else. It's stupid how it has mini-flak AND flak...

[Dogzer]

I'm not familiar with the sharp shooter, so I was just guessing. But it was stressful being killed instantly in  4shots over and over by a ss.

The minigun is useless at mid and long range. Description says it "shreds" enemies at close range, but it's hardly the case.

[stallion]

Dogzer, on January 31 2013 - 05:56 AM, said:

The minigun is useless at mid and long range. Description says it "shreds" enemies at close range, but it's hardly the case.

flak cannon should have "shreds enemies" in it's description.

[defekt]

Coldbound, on January 31 2013 - 02:14 AM, said:

defekt, on January 30 2013 - 09:10 AM, said:

The root cause of the problem, IMHO, is not having class-restricted weaponry.

The more I think of this, the more it makes sense. Have the devs said anything about this_ Why not class restrict weps_ They used to be, right_ Why the change_
Class restricted weapons would propably change the game in a better direction

It was raised as a possible concern back in the early CBs IIRC.  (It may have been mentioned during the CAs but back then there were no C-classes to highlight the problem, and when they did appear the Cs moved around much faster than they do now.)  As far as I know it's a deliberate, core design decision thus now a matter of Hawken fact.  The first appearance of the Flak/HEAT Scout in the CBs immediately shone a 15 million candlepower light on why not restricting weapons by class perhaps wasn’t such a great idea.

[Gree]

Dogzer, on January 31 2013 - 02:38 AM, said:

davek1979, on January 31 2013 - 02:28 AM, said:

Look boys, I play a lvl 18 Recruit and I don't give a damn what you throw at me in close quarters 1v1.

When I lose in such fight, it's:
1, me having a really damaged armor
2, me being out of fuel
3, me being peppered by someone else from a distance - my most likely cause of death btw
4, me being drunk and not giving a damn about my performance

It's always me. Not my weapons. Not my choice of mech. Me.

Wait until you become a level 25 recruit, and see yourself defenseless against a level 10 scout.

-

And what about high level sharpshooters_

Not long ago I realized why sometimes I kickass in a match, and other times I'm completely helpless.

Scouts aside. I've noticed there's not a chance in hell I can take on a level 25 sharpshooter with a level 25 recruit, even less a berserker.

Sharpshooter weapon makes as much damage as the TOW missile,  think, maybe more, one shot takes like 200 damage on my recruit. I see my health go from 709 to 400something, 200something, boom I'm dead.

When with my minigun I need a constant flow of hits at close range for a total 6 seconds aprox. to make a full kill (and I'm optimized for full damage). Which is very difficult to do. And at long range it's almost useless.

Why is sniper's fire rate so much faster than tow missiles, much more accurate, instant hit, and make as much damage if not more_ Is it me or this is crazy_
Why even bother getting to level 25 if I'll never be able to take on some mechs unless we outnumber them_

The sabot does less damage for not being a pojectile based weapon. It has the same fire rate of tow and GL. It takes so mch like of you because we do an initial slug-sabot burst and we keep firing until the sabot reloads again. There's nothing overpowered about the SS. He kills less than a scout, gren, zerker or brawler. Our weapons have 0 travel time because we can't chase enemies, we don't have splash damage. We need to kill the enemie instanctly before it runs away. Also, we're useless at close range.
Do you still think that the SS is overpowered_

[Gree]

RisorialScion, on January 31 2013 - 03:25 AM, said:

RoF of Sabot (which I assume you mean) isn't way faster than TOW. On top of that, you need to stand still AND scope in to make Sabot actually hit where you want it to hit, this is not the case for TOW. On top of THAT, TOW can be detonated mid-air and has splash, means if you launch it, theres a good possibility you miss by a good chunk and still do nice damage. If you miss with Sabot, you are most probably dead while loading the next bullet if you don't take cover immediately (if you can).

Or to quote Eminem, former master of the Sharpshooter:

Quote

Look, if you had one shot, or one opportunity
To seize everything you ever wanted
in one moment
Can you capture it
Or just let it slip_
Yo.

Playing a Scout with TOW is Hawken: Easy Mode.

Playing rocketeer is Hawken: FRIGGIN CHUCK NORRIS MODE

[Juodvarnis]

Gree, on January 31 2013 - 07:43 AM, said:

RisorialScion, on January 31 2013 - 03:25 AM, said:

RoF of Sabot (which I assume you mean) isn't way faster than TOW. On top of that, you need to stand still AND scope in to make Sabot actually hit where you want it to hit, this is not the case for TOW. On top of THAT, TOW can be detonated mid-air and has splash, means if you launch it, theres a good possibility you miss by a good chunk and still do nice damage. If you miss with Sabot, you are most probably dead while loading the next bullet if you don't take cover immediately (if you can).

Or to quote Eminem, former master of the Sharpshooter:

Quote

Look, if you had one shot, or one opportunity
To seize everything you ever wanted
in one moment
Can you capture it
Or just let it slip_
Yo.

Playing a Scout with TOW is Hawken: Easy Mode.

Playing rocketeer is Hawken: FRIGGIN CHUCK NORRIS MODE

Oh yes, indeed

[Dogzer]

Gree, on January 31 2013 - 07:41 AM, said:

The sabot does less damage for not being a pojectile based weapon. It has the same fire rate of tow and GL. It takes so mch like of you because we do an initial slug-sabot burst and we keep firing until the sabot reloads again. There's nothing overpowered about the SS. He kills less than a scout, gren, zerker or brawler. Our weapons have 0 travel time because we can't chase enemies, we don't have splash damage. We need to kill the enemie instanctly before it runs away. Also, we're useless at close range.
Do you still think that the SS is overpowered_

You have a point. Actually lower level sharpshooters aren't every effective. But the level 25 ss that I ran against, was undefeatable with my level 25 recruit, there was no way around it.
When two mechs at level 25 go against each other, each should *ideally* be able to use their features to have a fair fight, but I swear there was nothing I could do! It was pointless.

This is how my health look'd as soon as I got in ss's range: 709.. 400... 300...50.. 0 (aprox). In a matter of 3-4 seconds.
When it takes a short but precious time to get the minigun start shooting, and bullets spreads all around the place, not hitting the enemy (unless standing real close).
But for minigun to to make a full kill, I kid you not, it takes some good 5 or 6 seconds of effective hits from close range.

To be fair, in a 1 vs 1 fight, a level 25 recruit is not underpowered. Minigun in combination with TOW can do great damage in close quarters. It's great for deathmatch. But the mode I like is Siege! (to me it's the real game).

To me other modes are just to practice, and Siege is the real mission.
And you gotta be effective at mid-range in Siege, otherwise you can't do anything when AA is crowded. You can't even help, you're more of a burden to your team, and that can't happen when you're level 25.

Edited by Dogzer, January 31 2013 - 10:12 AM.

[idolische]

Dogzer, I believe SS pilot you mentioned could beat you 1vs1 using ANY mech. You can't completely avoid TOW damage at close range if TOW user is not a complete noob. SS on the other hand must be stationary at the moment he shoots if he wants to hit anything. SS has very low chances up close if the players are of comparable skill. If there's some cover nearby SS is as good as dead.

[Krellus]

I'm not sure if the flak/tow scout is OP or not, but it certainly is a lot easier to play than some other classes. In fact i think all the A classes are easier to play generally - they're just so mobile and dodgy, in a game with lots of cover and all ranged combat. I havent played heat scout so cant comment on that (i am about i think level 21 scout now)

I also have a level 21 bruiser. I definitely find that mech harder to play, but it is fun in a different way: area denial, cool looking/sounding rockets, a lot more health (inc the special ability), taking hellfire pot shots at fliers, supporting team mates more... But it is certainly more difficult to win 1v1s, at least against skilled opponents (anything is viable vs new players)

On the other hand, my scout tends to have great difficulty with snipers, but my bruiser not so much. Overall my impression is A classes tend to fare better against most opponents - and so you get lots of them in a match. The SS just got a major boost however - that should help curb A class domination as folks get better with a now more viable sniper.

[SirCannonFodder]

dEd101, on January 31 2013 - 02:27 AM, said:

I'd say impose class based stats on all weapons. So brawler flak packs more of a punch than scout flak. Same for tow.

Base weapon damage by class. C class does most damage, then B, then A. Simple and easier to balance.

Perhaps make a separate thread for this, so it can get the discussion it deserves and the devs are more likely to see_

[Dogzer]

Well to be more specific the problems come with siege.

In DM I find that it's easier to handle as you don't depend on your team's skills/mech. So when I play DM I'm satisfied, I don't feel cheated, if I die I realize I wasn't fast enough.

But in siege, things become hard, especially because you gotta take AA. If enemy team are a bunch of friends or are actually doing teamwork, then you're in big problem. Rarely both teams work as teams, and you get a satisfying balanced match. Aprox 2 out of 3 times, you got 1 team IMPOSSIBLE to win, and the other team is scattered, sending ships to their deaths, and insantly dying when they get close to AA. All you can do is either rush to AA, die, repeat... shoot the ship until your team loses, or try to kill someone to get exp (and team still loses). The ideal thing is to try be a teamplayer, and go WITH someone to AA, but usually it's hardly enough, you and your temporary buddy die together, and enemy has enough time to repair.
Maybe siege needs a few gameplay tweaks, but it's still alpha, so yeah!

I say at encourage more somehow that everyone actually secures AA BEFORE sending the ship to its death. Also give more exp for being at AA, give double exp for KILLING enemy in AA. I don't know, I'm just brainstorming.

But tweaking mech's balance bit more would also help. Right now scout's being too advantageous, with extra fuel and flak cannon. Maybe since they're scouts, and they're most suited to scout the area, rather than hard combat, they usually have less armor_ Just saying.

Edited by Dogzer, January 31 2013 - 05:32 PM.

[dEd101]

SirCannonFodder, on January 31 2013 - 05:20 PM, said:

dEd101, on January 31 2013 - 02:27 AM, said:

I'd say impose class based stats on all weapons. So brawler flak packs more of a punch than scout flak. Same for towlikelye weapon damage by class. C class does most damage, then B, then A. Simple and easier to balance.

Perhaps make a separate thread for this, so it can get the discussion it deserves and the devs are more likely to see_

http://community.pla...rding-to-class/

[Keiichi81]

Yes, I would say SCOUT is most definitely overpowered. I get killed by SCOUTs more often than anything else lately, and when I'm playing my SCOUT I will routinely go 10:1 whereas with most other chassis I'll be doing 1.5:1 or 2:1 on a good day.

A SCOUT can kill an A-class mech before they even know they're being hit, and they literally run circles around a C-class. Mini-Flak/TOW is just too potent of a combination, currently. The Mini-Flak can out-damage an AR at medium range if the player paces their shots, and at close-range it chews through armor like a fat kid eating a cookie. Couple that with the Fuel Reserve ability, which ensures that you can outlast your opponent in a dodging match, outrun your opponent in a retreat and overtake your opponent if they flee, and you've got a recipe for being OP. And from what I hear, the HEAT/TOW combo is even more deadly, although most of the SCOUTs I've seen have been pre-25 so I haven't had to deal with it much so far.

The Mini-Flak/TOW SCOUT could easily be brought in line, in my opinion, by simply reducing the range/increasing the spread of the Mini-Flak. Currently, it's just too d&#n accurate.

[nepacaka]

scout op_ lol =)

Quote

A SCOUT can kill an A-class mech before they even know they're being hit, and they literally run circles around a C-class. Mini-Flak/TOW is just too potent of a combination, currently. The Mini-Flak can out-damage an AR at medium range if the player paces their shots, and at close-range it chews through armor like a fat kid eating a cookie. Couple that with the Fuel Reserve ability, which ensures that you can outlast your opponent in a dodging match

i play on Brawler, enemy on scout.
I wait until the enemy dodge and immediately shoot TOW + detonator to the place where the scout will. Combo TOW + Detonator + Flak = 100% dead scout in 1 second

Quote

And from what I hear, the HEAT/TOW combo is even more deadly

it's true, heat really dangerous weapon in the capable hands

Edited by nepacaka, February 01 2013 - 10:24 AM.

[Hrim]

Dogzer, on January 30 2013 - 04:46 AM, said:

"blablabla"

Don't give yourself too much credit, you may simply be facing skilled players which explains why your bunny is all fuzzy.

Less ingame talking and more learning would do you a lot of good.