248 replies to this topic

[ShadowWarg]

I think the scrambler can be stacked. Its very annoying to say the least. I'm not entirely sure how I feel about the shield, although I can say I find that the recent change makes it kind of a redundant item along with the blockade. In terms of defense they are pretty much the exact same but the shield gives you more coverage, has a more flexible use and has almost no drawback so I don't think there is much incentive to uses the blockade over the shield.

Edited by ShadowWarg, May 07 2013 - 06:38 PM.

[AsianJoyKiller]

Guiotine, on May 07 2013 - 05:17 PM, said:

Also, I agree with Xuande about the shield argument and that it is unfair when used in a group. Almost every item is like that. MG turrets, EMPs, dets, HE charges, if Radar scramblers can stack that would be very bad as well (can they_ that might be interesting ). portable scanners can give a huge amount of map coverage, and are far more useful with this new radar. Barriers that are placed strategically blocking AA access. Coordinated use of one item is ridiculous, but that kind of coordination simply does not happen in pub games unless you're against a 6 man premade, and even then you would still be stomped regardless.

So what_
We don't bother balancing for coordinated use_ Just because it doesn't happen often in pubs, doesn't mean it shouldn't ignore if something becomes completely broken in coordinated group play.

[_Hex_]

ShadowWarg, on May 07 2013 - 06:28 PM, said:

I don't think there is much incentive to uses the blockade over the shield.

Blockade is super useful (situational) in tight areas when you are running. You can literally close some corridors if you place it right.

[Guiotine]

AsianJoyKiller, on May 07 2013 - 06:36 PM, said:

Guiotine, on May 07 2013 - 05:17 PM, said:

Also, I agree with Xuande about the shield argument and that it is unfair when used in a group. Almost every item is like that. MG turrets, EMPs, dets, HE charges, if Radar scramblers can stack that would be very bad as well (can they_ that might be interesting ). portable scanners can give a huge amount of map coverage, and are far more useful with this new radar. Barriers that are placed strategically blocking AA access. Coordinated use of one item is ridiculous, but that kind of coordination simply does not happen in pub games unless you're against a 6 man premade, and even then you would still be stomped regardless.

So what_
We don't bother balancing for coordinated use_ Just because it doesn't happen often in pubs, doesn't mean it shouldn't ignore if something becomes completely broken in coordinated group play.

Well, I was mostly referring to one team of pubs and one coordinated team, where anything will be broken (should have actually said that, but whatever) but you are right. Balance for coordinated play. However, even with the buff to the shield in the Tech and Facility updates, it still, and will continue to, pop like a bubble under any sort of concentrated fire, and it is not like the shield is the only competitively viable defensive item. It is unlikely to see a competitive team 5 people all carrying shields, even after this buff. It is not like the seven second EMP, or the det. It does not completely outclass the other item options, so it doesn't make sense to carry only the shield when you can bring a lot of other utility to a game. It's not even like the MG turret, which broke the tournament hosted toward the beginning of OB since the EMP was banned. It is still possible, of course, to see a team of 5 people carrying the shield, but like I said, any coordinated fire will pop them easily, and they have their own defensive items to help counter that. In the end, while balancing for competitive play in a game aiming to be competitive is important, there is a difference between balancing for two coordinated teams using it and balancing for one coordinated team stomping others using it. It is also important to remember that, while balancing for comp play is priority, it is also important not to make it useless on its own. Even in pubs, while the shield is a lot better due to the recent buffs, it still pops like a freakin bubble.

[v009]

@ Xuande

The Point-D Turret has 200 health (I believe). Even in pub matches you have to use your secondary and a primary to kill it. This gives your position away and you have to wait for your secondary to reload and heat bar to go down. Not exactly ideal for an attacking team playing for objective i.e. attacking enemy guarded AA in Seige.

Please test the Point-D Turret and Rocket Turret out. Before you have line on sight on it it will start firing. Giving your position away.

Did I ever state in my post that If I do not approve an item that others should not use it_ They can use what they want and play how they
want.

About portable scanner and descrambler: they have 150 seconds cool down and they disappear after that cool down (unless they have changed this on tech patch).

Also to Guiotine: I was talking about shield going to be abused as it can be deployed on a mech granting him 350 more health (after patch) and mobiltiy  to chase. I never said shield is OP and broken when deployed on the ground. Yes you can counter enemies by going inside and dealing damage but do you really want to get inside when it is a Raider or SS_

[Evolwar]

I'm very interested in the changes they are making even if I expected them or not. I honestly didn't think they will adjust the health orb again so soon but I guess this is just to push people away from it and more towards trying other items like the shield. I can't wait to test the changes and to see the new skinned facility map. Thanks for letting us know that the patch may be delayed for awhile.

[Xuande]

v009, on May 08 2013 - 06:38 AM, said:

@ Xuande

The Point-D Turret has 200 health (I believe). Even in pub matches you have to use your secondary and a primary to kill it. This gives your position away and you have to wait for your secondary to reload and heat bar to go down. Not exactly ideal for an attacking team playing for objective i.e. attacking enemy guarded AA in Seige.

So you don't approve of the turret being used to help protect the AA_

Again, I'm not seeing how this is a problem or unfair. It just sounds like you don't like the turrets inconveniencing you sneaking around or attacking you. And taking down a turret gives hardly any heat build up so why are you mentioning it_

Please test the Point-D Turret and Rocket Turret out. Before you have line on sight on it it will start firing. Giving your position away.

So_ I use the MG turret on all of my mechs except the Reaper.

Did I ever state in my post that If I do not approve an item that others should not use it_ They can use what they want and play how they
want.

I did not say you did. I said you seem like you do because you're criticizing the basic function of these items and calling them unfair. I started questioning it the moment you listed that "it can kill you from full health" as a reason it is OP. There is no way a turret can kill you from full health health unless you deliberately let it. One TOW and a little machine gun fire can take it out in under a second.

About portable scanner and descrambler: they have 150 seconds cool down and they disappear after that cool down (unless they have changed this on tech patch).

Also to Guiotine: I was talking about shield going to be abused as it can be deployed on a mech granting him 350 more health (after patch) and mobiltiy  to chase. I never said shield is OP and broken when deployed on the ground. Yes you can counter enemies by going inside and dealing damage but do you really want to get inside when it is a Raider or SS_

As Guiotine pointed out. Under ANY concentrated fire, the shield pops like a bubble. And the buff as I will state a third time is irrelevant due to the fact that you too will have 50+ more health. Negating this "buff."

[Taerkasten]

Evolwar, on May 08 2013 - 10:08 AM, said:

I'm very interested in the changes they are making even if I expected them or not. I honestly didn't think they will adjust the health orb again

That will not stop people from using the repair charge, if there no so much action at the front, the attacker just goes back further and use the charge, another way for being than the repair absortion rate will be reduce is to force more the presence of the technician, am not have nothing against the tech, its funny the technician and his vampric beam , the shield will be beneficial for SS, If the devs add a prestige weapon for the medic, in my opinion are between the Vulcan and the Mini flak. would be good a medic with the little auto shotgun but if is the vulcan, ill will be happy

[Evolwar]

Taerkasten, on May 08 2013 - 11:06 AM, said:

Evolwar, on May 08 2013 - 10:08 AM, said:

I'm very interested in the changes they are making even if I expected them or not. I honestly didn't think they will adjust the health orb again

That will not stop people from using the repair charge, if there no so much action at the front, the attacker just goes back further and use the charge, another way for being than the repair absortion rate will be reduce is to force more the presence of the technician, am not have nothing against the tech, its funny the technician and his vampric beam , the shield will be beneficial for SS, If the devs add a prestige weapon for the medic, in my opinion are between the Vulcan and the Mini flak. would be good a medic with the little auto shotgun but if is the vulcan, ill will be happy

I believe the tech will get a completely new weapon when another mech is introduced, similar to the ss getting its last weapon from the reaper intro. However, it would be interesting to see a tech with a mini flak or vulcan.

[v009]

Xuande, on May 08 2013 - 11:04 AM, said:

So you don't approve of the turret being used to help protect the AA_

Again, I'm not seeing how this is a problem or unfair. It just sounds like you don't like the turrets inconveniencing you sneaking around or attacking you. And taking down a turret gives hardly any heat build up so why are you mentioning it_

No. Never said they are. I was stating the advantages of the turret. Heat matters specially when you are against a lot of enemy. Plus you have to wait for your secondary to load and it gives your position away by firing your weapons.

As Guiotine pointed out. Under ANY concentrated fire, the shield pops like a bubble. And the buff as I will state a third time is irrelevant due to the fact that you too will have 50+ more health. Negating this "buff."

Under concentrated fire not a single mech can survive unless they have reached enlightenment and is in GOD mode. So are you saying 50 health makes no difference in a fight_

I guess I have not clearly worded myself when I pointed out about the advantages of turret.

I don't know why we have gone off the point about shield and talking about turret. I do not think I said that shield was OP when it is layed on the ground, just that it is when used by dropping it it on a mech. For ecample:
2v2 scenario. All mech are scout and all 4 pilots are equally skilled. The outcome of who will win will be 50/50. Now what if the other team used the shield to deploy on each other and had the fight_ The team with shield deployed on will have 800HP (Edit: 850HP or 900HP after patch) and they can move around without getting out of the shield. Yes the enemy can get inside the shield but the pilot with the shield can dodge and get the opponent mech to be outside of the shield. I this fair_

P.S. Please don't use red font colour. It's very hard to read.

Edited by v009, May 09 2013 - 07:13 AM.

[Akaon]

@Xuande:
I'm really torn on the shield, if deployed like a shield (on the ground), it's pretty balanced and adding 50 hp might be a good thing.
If deployed on a mech, 350 hp is... so much. It would effectively up an A mech to 850, 900 post patch. That's gonna ensure he will win any fight. (interestingly enough, also mostly defeat the purpose of dodging while it's up, as it's pretty hard to not hit the bubble).

Essentially, I'd say the item needs to be split in two. One item that works like the current shield, but only deploys on the ground. One item that will only work on mechs (and in this case, it could only work by affecting yourself). If they're gonna balance it, it's either going to be useless when deployed on the ground (too weak, limits your mobility, yet balanced when used on an ally) or it will be too powerful when deployed on a mech (but balanced when using it by yourself).

But as it stands, 350 hp added on a mech is too much. You could only fight it if there's multiple people to burst down the shield or if you can avoid fighting him for the duration. Ironically, while you cannot take damage from explosion, EMP will go straight through it.

[Pyroninja42]

Anybody else think that the Time To Kill is high enough as it is_

[ultramus]

Games devolving into amorphous blob A vs amorphous blob B_ Better make things worse and give everyone more HP. Also let's give the biggest proportionate increase to A classes because they were really struggling.

Why no tech heat gen increase_
No heat nerf_
No C class buff_

I love hawken, but these are steps in the wrong direction, I'm going to need to see some SIGNIFICANT balance changes next patch to bring ttk back down while reducing alpha strikes, giving the rocketeer a worthwhile ability, and seeing the tech made more viable solo and less a priest.

[Tomino_sama]

Since the Joke some called a focus on Burst Damage Weaponry was Fixed, I have been Extremely Happy with Hawken. Each time they add/improve what we have to play with here I am eager to get on and check out all the fresh new stuffs.

Keep up the Good Work Dev's!

Haters will always find something to cry about, Please stick to your Plans!

[Tomino_sama]

Quote

..So you don't approve..

...red font colour. It's very hard to read.

MY EYES!

[Tomino_sama]

AsianJoyKiller, on May 07 2013 - 06:36 PM, said:

We don't bother balancing for coordinated use_ Just because it doesn't happen often in pubs, doesn't mean it shouldn't ignore if something becomes completely broken in coordinated group play.

If you are coordinating as a team while utilising Turrets, you should be rewarded for your efforts with Kills.

Unless the other Team Finds a way to counter that, which they probably won't.

Superior Tactics can never be "balanced" versus an uncoordinated team of Lone Wolf Pilots, without a single microphone amongst them.

Broken = Used well _

Ever since I started with this Open Beta, Turret spamming has been a thing, so we shoot them out. Granted If there are 6 or more turrets in one place, it may hurt more IF you get hit by them.

Then again that's a good reason to lure the fighting away from that location surely_

I never saw any EMP chaining, but there were pages and pages of Pilots stating Fears of the possibility in these forums.

[Tomino_sama]

v009, on May 06 2013 - 04:43 PM, said:

The shield being abused is when your team mate puts a shield on you. You can move around while taking damage and laugh as they heat up shooting you or run until the shield is gone.

^ lol ^  I find this is the best way to use it, but rarely see it done. You can make your Mech Wingman Bro's Rambo for a few seconds, pretty funny.

[LucasAshrock]

Any new eta on this patch_

[ropefish]

LucasAshrock, on May 08 2013 - 04:48 PM, said:

Any new eta on this patch_

https://community.pl...eview-facility/

[Scapes]

UPDATE 2: Thanks for your patience, pilots! We've resolved the bug and will be releasing the Facility Update on May 9 at 2:00 PM PDT. Please note, the team has removed two balance changes (Shield and Detonator) for further internal evaluation.