583 replies to this topic

[Kataklyzmik]

Rajhin, on August 15 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

So correct me if I am wrong, but when you level your mech to maximum you get a free new mech with skin and some items_

I didn't see anywhere where it says you get a free new mech.  However, it does seem that hitting max level with a mech unlocks an item that can then be applied to all mechs.  I personally like the sound of that idea for exactly the purpose they state.  As for the skins, it states that as you level a mech you unlock new skins for it.  I imagine these are the "elite skins" mentioned in the post about the upcoming patch a while back.

[AsianJoyKiller]

Kataklyzmik, on August 15 2013 - 07:35 AM, said:

AsianJoyKiller, on August 14 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

And before someone goes "But AJK, you can't possibly know that this would ruin comp play", name me a shooter that has been competitively successful and uses vertical progression.

I can see your point.  However, if nobody ever tried something that hasn't yet been done, we'd never have anything new.  Also, it is not a shooter, but LoL is the most competitively successful video game yet and it has vertical progression.  The competitive players are just fully progressed.

The most major flaw in your argument is that you imply it's never been tried before. It has, and it's failed. The most recent example would be Firefall.

Also, DOTA 2 is a wildy popular game, but does it feature the same vertical progression that LoL has_

[Kataklyzmik]

h0B0, on August 14 2013 - 07:11 PM, said:

From the link provided

Quote

There's no longer a cost associated to unlock a mech either, so you can try out mechs without having to invest in them

That statement seemed strange to me.  I do not understand what they mean because in the screenshots there are clearly still Meteor and Hawken costs to unlocking mechs.

[Kataklyzmik]

AsianJoyKiller, on August 15 2013 - 07:40 AM, said:

The most major flaw in your argument is that you imply it's never been tried before. It has, and it's failed. The most recent example would be Firefall.

Also, DOTA 2 is a wildy popular game, but does it feature the same vertical progression that LoL has_

So some popular games have vertical progression and others don't is what we've established here.  

I definitely see your argument, but I don't understand what everybody is freaking out about already.  I never felt that what you earned in this game from leveling really impacted the game that much.  The bonuses from the trees were modest at best and sometimes prestige weapons almost seemed randomly assigned (e.g. vulcan on the gren, or vulcan on CR-T and AR on the assault).  I suppose it is possible, but I do not see why, all of a sudden, the progression would yield huge bonuses.  I hope it does not.

[Sylhiri]

Kataklyzmik, on August 15 2013 - 07:39 AM, said:

I didn't see anywhere where it says you get a free new mech.

If you look at that picture you pay for the weapons and the abilities along that path, there is no currency amount under the mech as with everything else in the middle line, only EXP values.

There isn't much point in making people play CR-T to 6-7 mechs to get the mech you want and it would also hurt MC gain due to how long it would take to unlock all mechs in order to buy them.

[Kataklyzmik]

Sylhiri, on August 15 2013 - 07:56 AM, said:

Kataklyzmik, on August 15 2013 - 07:39 AM, said:

I didn't see anywhere where it says you get a free new mech.

If you look at that picture you pay for the weapons and the abilities along that path, there is no currency amount under the mech as with everything else in the middle line, only EXP values.

There isn't much point in making people play CR-T to 6-7 mechs to get the mech you want and it would also hurt MC gain due to how long it would take to unlock all mechs in order to buy them.

Yeah, I see where you have to pay for weapons.  That screenshot with the brawler overview in the garage view just looks like it has prices associated with purchasing the brawler to me.

[KyRoS]

Hopefully all the time and effort put in carries over. I think they mentioned it would, but I've got 10 lvl 25 mechs, so hopefully we don't have to start from scratch on pilot progression or other things. I'm also not crazy about the new HUD. I expected it was going to be more impressive I guess. Well, hopefully we'll see the patch before too long.

[RedVan]

AsianJoyKiller, on August 15 2013 - 07:40 AM, said:

Kataklyzmik, on August 15 2013 - 07:35 AM, said:

AsianJoyKiller, on August 14 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

And before someone goes "But AJK, you can't possibly know that this would ruin comp play", name me a shooter that has been competitively successful and uses vertical progression.

I can see your point.  However, if nobody ever tried something that hasn't yet been done, we'd never have anything new.  Also, it is not a shooter, but LoL is the most competitively successful video game yet and it has vertical progression.  The competitive players are just fully progressed.

The most major flaw in your argument is that you imply it's never been tried before. It has, and it's failed. The most recent example would be Firefall.

Also, DOTA 2 is a wildy popular game, but does it feature the same vertical progression that LoL has_

Granted, FF is just fail all around for the most part. Until they add more PvE, which is the only partially worthwhile aspect of the game.

If vertical progression, then have official comp servers where everything is unlocked so players can use anything. Best fix for incorporating comp with vert progression imo

[Umbre]

"Hawken's next big update is all thanks to fan feedback"

This headline really made me cringe. I'd really rather not be given credit for potentially bad changes that may not even reflect actual input from the community.

Sorry, but Adhesive has a bad track record when it comes to actually listening to their community.

[AsianJoyKiller]

Kataklyzmik, on August 15 2013 - 07:55 AM, said:

AsianJoyKiller, on August 15 2013 - 07:40 AM, said:

The most major flaw in your argument is that you imply it's never been tried before. It has, and it's failed. The most recent example would be Firefall.

Also, DOTA 2 is a wildy popular game, but does it feature the same vertical progression that LoL has_

So some popular games have vertical progression and others don't is what we've established here.  

I definitely see your argument, but I don't understand what everybody is freaking out about already.  I never felt that what you earned in this game from leveling really impacted the game that much.  The bonuses from the trees were modest at best and sometimes prestige weapons almost seemed randomly assigned (e.g. vulcan on the gren, or vulcan on CR-T and AR on the assault).  I suppose it is possible, but I do not see why, all of a sudden, the progression would yield huge bonuses.  I hope it does not.

Actually, what you've established is one popular game from an entirely different genre uses vertical progression, that it even has a competing title that proves that the vertical progression is unnecessary and were unable to provide an instance that such a system has ever worked with a shooter.

Also, you've never experienced large differences made by the Op Trees because they were purposefully nerfed into the ground in order to negate the large differences they were making while a new progression system was being worked on.

Oh, and one reason people like me are freaking out that they're implementing a vert system_
Because the basically lied to us. It might take me a while to find it, but one of the devs, Saunders if memory serves, made a post a while back that stated they were removing vertical progression in favor of horizontal progression. They told us we would be getting one thing, and then went in the opposite direction.

[ShadowGTR]

KyRoS, on August 15 2013 - 08:04 AM, said:

Hopefully all the time and effort put in carries over. I think they mentioned it would, but I've got 10 lvl 25 mechs, so hopefully we don't have to start from scratch on pilot progression or other things. I'm also not crazy about the new HUD. I expected it was going to be more impressive I guess. Well, hopefully we'll see the patch before too long.

Check out these posts from Hughes, sounds like progress will be carried over.

https://community.pl...240#entry325951

https://community.pl...260#entry326535

[AsianJoyKiller]

RedVan, on August 15 2013 - 08:14 AM, said:

Granted, FF is just fail all around for the most part. Until they add more PvE, which is the only partially worthwhile aspect of the game.

Have you played it recently_
The Jetball mode is absolutely great and the game is showing some serious promise.

[MrShade_]

AsianJoyKiller, on August 15 2013 - 08:16 AM, said:

Kataklyzmik, on August 15 2013 - 07:55 AM, said:

AsianJoyKiller, on August 15 2013 - 07:40 AM, said:

The most major flaw in your argument is that you imply it's never been tried before. It has, and it's failed. The most recent example would be Firefall.

Also, DOTA 2 is a wildy popular game, but does it feature the same vertical progression that LoL has_

So some popular games have vertical progression and others don't is what we've established here.  

I definitely see your argument, but I don't understand what everybody is freaking out about already.  I never felt that what you earned in this game from leveling really impacted the game that much.  The bonuses from the trees were modest at best and sometimes prestige weapons almost seemed randomly assigned (e.g. vulcan on the gren, or vulcan on CR-T and AR on the assault).  I suppose it is possible, but I do not see why, all of a sudden, the progression would yield huge bonuses.  I hope it does not.

Actually, what you've established is one popular game from an entirely different genre uses vertical progression, that it even has a competing title that proves that the vertical progression is unnecessary and were unable to provide an instance that such a system has ever worked with a shooter.

Also, you've never experienced large differences made by the Op Trees because they were purposefully nerfed into the ground in order to negate the large differences they were making while a new progression system was being worked on.

Oh, and one reason people like me are freaking out that they're implementing a vert system_
Because the basically lied to us. It might take me a while to find it, but one of the devs, Saunders if memory serves, made a post a while back that stated they were removing vertical progression in favor of horizontal progression. They told us we would be getting one thing, and then went in the opposite direction.

Maybe he was just being very literal. Old leveling system you go from bottom to top(vertical) , new one is from left to right (horizontal)

Edited by MrShade_, August 15 2013 - 08:26 AM.

[AsianJoyKiller]

MrShade_, on August 15 2013 - 08:24 AM, said:

Maybe he was just being very literal. Old leveling system you go from bottom to top(vertical) , new one is from left to right (horizontal)

That's what i thought when I first saw the new system.
"Did they think horizontal progression just means 'turn everything sideways'_"

[DerMax]

I really, really do hope they optimize the game and rework the design of the maps. All these things are nice, but what I personally need the most is custom servers and maps without invisible walls and minor details that don't add anything but frustration to the gameplay.

[GodsHolyMember]

Umbre, on August 15 2013 - 08:15 AM, said:

"Hawken's next big update is all thanks to fan feedback"

This headline really made me cringe. I'd really rather not be given credit for potentially bad changes that may not even reflect actual input from the community.

Sorry, but Adhesive has a bad track record when it comes to actually listening to their community.

Agreed, and particularly in knowing WHAT to listen to.  90% of the suggestions posted on the forums are knee-jerk reactions from newbs that just started playing and have:

• Not gained enough experience to develop a working knowledge of what strategies work and what doesn't (this is not a generic shooter), and instead want to be able to bring over the same tired strategies they've honed on other shooters so that they don't have to spend the extra effort to learn something new.
  
  
• No idea of the ramifications for what they are asking for, and are typically just asking for a crutch that would make their particular limited strategy ridiculously effective rather than them learning to perform something different/more difficult.

8% of the remaining suggestions are from more experienced players, but many of those suggestions seemed to be oriented towards making the game something it isn't, or I just disagree with it and feel it would detract or derail the evolution of the game in a novel way into more of a copy-cat of other popular or cult-hits.

Then there's the 2% of suggestions that I agree with.

Edited by GodsHolyMember, August 15 2013 - 09:04 AM.

[RedVan]

AsianJoyKiller, on August 15 2013 - 08:18 AM, said:

RedVan, on August 15 2013 - 08:14 AM, said:

Granted, FF is just fail all around for the most part. Until they add more PvE, which is the only partially worthwhile aspect of the game.

Have you played it recently_
The Jetball mode is absolutely great and the game is showing some serious promise.

I did hear pvp movement was increased, so that's a good thing. Haven't played in a while though. I also heard there are monthly $$ tourneys or something_

I may check it out, if I get bored of BF3 that I just reinstalled lol


Edit: as for listening to the community... Open beta is great for server testing, MM testing, etc...  But balance issues...  They would be smart to give more weight to upper tier players. It would be incredibly stupid to listen to every Joe Blo that comes to the forums qq'ing about this and that, only to realize they just suck with something that's perfectly fine. People like to believe everyone's opinions should be listened to, that's the political correct thing to say. But it simply isn't true.

Edited by RedVan, August 15 2013 - 09:39 AM.

[Incapacity]

>Before the internal system was more cosmetic

No, no it wasn't. Idiot author. How does 10% fire rate and more EU translate into cosmetic_

Anyhow, I need to let all this sink in a bit. I can't tell if I like any of it or not.

[ecaflip]

Incapacity, on August 15 2013 - 10:06 AM, said:

Anyhow, I need to let all this sink in a bit. I can't tell if I like any of it or not.

[Sylhiri]

RedVan, on August 15 2013 - 09:36 AM, said:

Edit: as for listening to the community... Open beta is great for server testing, MM testing, etc...  But balance issues...  They would be smart to give more weight to upper tier players. It would be incredibly stupid to listen to every Joe Blo that comes to the forums qq'ing about this and that, only to realize they just suck with something that's perfectly fine. People like to believe everyone's opinions should be listened to, that's the political correct thing to say. But it simply isn't true.

Just from the reaction to a few screenshots...

I can imagine what's going on in AJK's head.