78 replies to this topic

[Blaz0re]

Hi Guys,

 

so I always had a problem with the EMP in this game. It's radius, the effects duration, the ability to throw it a long distance, everything just seemed OP, like a free kill if you hit it and it really isn't that hard, especially in siege where many enemies are close to each other.

Am I the only one who thinks this item is completely broken? I play a lot of G2R lately and the EMP quickly became my biggest enemy.
It's always the same:
Case 1: Enemy throws tow/grenade at me, i dodge. Short time after i can't dodge again so i get the emp in my face and there's nothing i can do.
Case 2: I throw down a bubble, stay inside. EMP hits the Shield and ALSO hits me inside (even if i stand in the middle of it or even more behind). No shield, no weapon --> Death in the open field.
Case 3: Especially in close quarters, i get surprised by a lot of enemies, try to escape and get my G2 Blitz on, but the bouncing of walls EMP hits me, and even my ability gets broken down.

The absolute best of course is when I try to save a teammate with a bubble shield, it gets EMPd, we both are jammed and abilities work neither. Makes perfect sense, it just destroys teamwork.

Is there some kind of magic trick i didn't notice or is there something i do wrong all the time? Am I the only one experiencing this? In my opinion EMPs would need a heavy nerf, at least the ability to only affect 1 mech or shield at a time, or to be thrown out the game completely, i wouldn't miss them at all, especially since they make many other items completely useless.

What are your thoughts on this?

[CrimsonKaim]

Take a look at the old EMP.

 

Would you rather prefare that?

 

[CraftyDus]

I don't use emp for enemies. 

It's for bad teammates.

[Amidatelion]

The duration isn't that long and is survivable with sufficient map knowledge, the radius is avoidable and it has a distinctive beeping noise to tell you that you shouldn't be anywhere near it. The only thing that irritates me about it is the shut-down-all-abilities bit, but it makes sense. Everything else you're describing can be answered by "get better at dodging." Don't run in straight goddamn lines as the G2R holy crap. Just because you have a go-fast button doesn't mean you're exempt from needing to dodge.

 

The shield situation is simple: it's a counter to the shield. The shield, by itself is stupidly powerful. Plop down a shield. Instant mobile cover. That burst mech just completely neutralized your sustain in an open field. Have fun. 

 

Furthermore, if you're running up against someone with a heavy EMP trigger finger, throw your shields aggressively. Charge the shield, throw it in their path and see how far that reflexive EMP gets them. 

[Blaz0re]

@Fakename:

The old EMP was completely broken. So this means the new one can't be? Where is the argument? Do you think the EMP adds to the gaming experience?

[CraftyDus]

@Fakename:

The old EMP was completely broken. So this means the new one can't be? Where is the argument? Do you think the EMP adds to the gaming experience?

 

@Blaz0re:

 

The emp adds green to the gameplay experience. 

And temporary awkwardness. Both are good.

[Blaz0re]

@Amidatelion

I can't always dodge while running away, many maps got tight corridors where you always will be trapped by an EMP. I don't get how I can get better at dodging when there clearly is a a time frame after dodging where you can't dodge again and this is where i get hit with the emp. I need to get close with the G2R and a good enemy player will have no problem at all to time it and hit it right in this time frame.
I get that it should counter the shield, but in this case it would be completely sufficient to destroy the shield and not stun everything inside it. That's just too much in my opinion.

[Amidatelion]

Don't get caught unawares in those tight corners. Watch your radar. Dodge into cover. Dodge into a situation where the player will EMP themselves. Don't dodge and just facecheck with your higher HP.

 

As to any of these complaints re: a G2R I'd recommend watching vid by ThirdEye, Flifang and Poopslinger. Also Jelooboi but I don't know if he has anywhere he uploads to.

[BaronSaturday]

My problem with the EMP is when everyone has them. This is at it's worst in Siege on Last Eco. I'm still a proponent of have items restricted to certain mechs. There would be universals like orbs, dets, shield, barriers, HETs, heat charges, and turrets, but scanner, scramblers, EMPs, ISMs all seem purpose built for certain classes. For instance, I think the pred and infil could get outstanding use out of the EMP and ISM to circumvent dropping out of stealth. Scrams seem to work well on the raider and scoot. Scanners are great forvreapers and SS. New items would need to be developed, but that's my feeling.

[Blaz0re]

I don't complain about the G2R at all, i think it's a fine mech.
I just still don't get what the EMP adds to the game.
In my opinion it only takes, by rendering Shields more a disadvantage, in siege for example, because as I said, you can doom your teammates if you just want to help them out by shielding them. What is the good thing about EMPs?

It's rarely possible to dodge into Situations where they will EMP themselves, especially if i don't even know if the enemy player has got one and i would end up behind otherwise. And as said, i often play against players knwoing what they're doing, who know when to EMP and when not.
If i can EMP somebody, great, free kill on most cases if it's 1v1. If i can't EMP him, well 1 item wasted, took just a milisecond to press the button, so no disadvantage at all. And if i get close and EMP myself with the enemy, still no disadvantage, both lose time and it's just annoying.
 

[hestoned]

If anything I would want the radius to be sliiiightly smaller. It's too easy to emp both you and the enemy in close combat

[Estif]

 I don�t like it, and I don�t use it. Too bad some of the most dirty tactics with this items are of frequent use...oh well.

[Flifang]

With the G2 raider, once you have identified who uses emps, you want to be wary of using your ability around them but once you have been emp'd you can activate your ability still if it was/is not on cool down. With a mere 25 second cool down you'd think it would be okay to pop it whenever but don't. Use the ability to get somewhere. When you get where you want hit your ability key to turn it off, conserve fuel, go off radar caused by the ability, and to get the cool down going sooner. I have on multiple occasions used the ability for a moment after a dodge to increase the distance I move somewhat. It's also great for moving between cover when approaching snipers. You can use the ability defensively or aggressively it all depends on your play style.

[_incitatus]

I don't complain about the G2R at all, i think it's a fine mech.
I just still don't get what the EMP adds to the game.
In my opinion it only takes, by rendering Shields more a disadvantage, in siege for example, because as I said, you can doom your teammates if you just want to help them out by shielding them. What is the good thing about EMPs?

It's rarely possible to dodge into Situations where they will EMP themselves, especially if i don't even know if the enemy player has got one and i would end up behind otherwise. And as said, i often play against players knwoing what they're doing, who know when to EMP and when not.
If i can EMP somebody, great, free kill on most cases if it's 1v1. If i can't EMP him, well 1 item wasted, took just a milisecond to press the button, so no disadvantage at all. And if i get close and EMP myself with the enemy, still no disadvantage, both lose time and it's just annoying.
 

 

EMP adds variety at the very least.  EMP can buy you a few seconds of healing if nail yourself and your opponenet and there are juicy orbs laying around.  They can be used to manipulate the enemy team's position since people will scramble to avoid them.  They can help break up deathballs.  And of course they counter shields (I hate shields). 

 

I agree with reducing the radius, but other than that I think EMP is fine, not to mention fun to use.

 

Also, there is a disadvantage if you miss your EMP in that you can't use another item immediatley.  If you EMP both you and your opponent, there is a chance for your opponent to escape, stand on an orb, recover from overheating, or just move into a better position. 

 

As a side note, one of my favorite things to do to dirty shield lovers is to toss an EMP from distance as soon as they pop their shield and plop down to repair and then time my TOW such that it hits them right after the EMP disables the shield.  Follow with a holotaunt.

[CraftyDus]

As a side note, one of my favorite things to do to dirty shield lovers is to toss an EMP from distance as soon as they pop their shield and plop down to repair and then time my TOW such that it hits them right after the EMP disables the shield.  Follow with a holotaunt.

 

#bufftheholotaunt

[eth0]

The shield situation is simple: it's a counter to the shield. The shield, by itself is stupidly powerful. Plop down a shield. Instant mobile cover. That burst mech just completely neutralized your sustain in an open field. Have fun.

Sounds good, let's nerf them both to hell. Weaker shields that block EMPs and smaller EMP radius. Also holotaunts should do 0.5 damage when thrown.

[LoC_TR]

Welp if it isn't orbs it's emps. I think the emp is awesome! Though I think it lasts a little too long, id rather see the duration reduce than the size. It's size matches that of the shield for a reason. The emp is also easy to boggle up and you can end up screwing yourself or teammate. That goes for the shield too, it can be a curse or a blessing. It's really all a matter of how you're positioning and setting up for your next couple moves.

If you're finding you're getting empd inside a shield too often I'd recommend actually using it like a shield and standing behind it, not inside it, that way the range does not affect you. The shield is like an emp magnet.

Here's a tip for those emp users: if you really wanna throw a wrench in that shield play.. Enter the shield just enough to bounce an emp on the ground towards the side of the shield your enemies on, as soon as you throw walk and dodge away from its direction. The emp will pop up and hit the inside of the shield, bouncing gives you enough time to exit the radius but still hopefully emping your target and destroying the shield. Now you're free to do damage!

Tips for shield: hold the hotkey your shield is on and watch it fly. If you're skilled enough throw it onto your Enemy, hit your ability and go after them. This will buy you some precious time to cross a fair distance without being sustained down in the open.

Edited by LoC_TR, 09 May 2015 - 09:55 PM.

[Kopra]

God forbid there's an item that punishes C-class stacks.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

Welp if it isn't orbs it's emps. I think the emp is awesome! Though I think it lasts a little too long, if rather see the duration reduce than the size. It's size matches that of the shield for a reason. The emp is also easy to boggle up and you can end up screwing yourself or teammate. That goes for the shield too, it can be a curse or a blessing. It's really all a matter of how you're positioning and setting up for your next couple moves.

If you're finding your getting empd inside a shield too often I'd recommend actually using it like a shield and standing behind it, not inside it, tht way the range does not effect you. The shield is like an emp magnet.

Here's a tip for those emp users: if you really wanna throw a wrench in that shield play.. Enter the shield just enough to bounce an emp on the ground towards the side of the shield your enemies on, as soon as you throw walk and dodge away from its direction. The emp will pop up and hit the inside of the shield, bouncing gives you enough time to exit the radius but still hopefully emping your target and destroying the shield. Now you're free to do damage!

Tips for shield: hold the hot key your shield is on and watch it fly. If your skilled enough throw it onto your Enemy, hit your ability and go after them. This will buy you some precious time to cross a fair distance without being sustained down in the open.

 

And can help ID LoC when he's smurfing :)

[LoC_TR]

And can help ID LoC when he's smurfing :)

I would never.. ;)

[Fstroke]

You want a counter to emp use an orb lord build. Just tank damage until your weapons are up. Jk

Emp is by no means a must have item. It's also one of the only items that can negatively impact you and your team if used improperly.

[Badtings]

I love EMPs, they add an element of fun and entropy to any battle. I do love EMPing teammates as well :P

[AsianJoyKiller]

Take a look at the old EMP.

 

Would you rather prefare that?

 

Oh, yes.

 

The good ol', "Don't complain. There's starving children in Africa." argument.

[Bergwein]

It's a counter to the shield. The shield, by itself is stupidly powerful.

 

That.

 

EMP and shield are two sides of the same coin.

Choosing which to pack on your mech is a bit like paper scissors stone. There's always one thing eliminating the other.

[Blaz0re]

Except the EMP always wins over the shield. And while it's at it, it also stuns your mech.

Had some rounds yesterday, where i played EMP myself and well, that was fun, free kills everywhere.
Siege on Origin, throwing EMPs randomly in the area of AA, rushing in with ability, everynone is stunned and it's a giant shredding. Not to mention the Incinerators who absolutely don't stand any chance since they have got a really long downtime to heat up again.
When they shield up an repair behind the AA and the shield goes a bit through the wall, just EMP it and everybody around dies, simple as that.

If the EMP destroys the shield and only the shield and doesn't stun the mech inside that would still be finde for the countering argument but not as incredibly OP. Often the Mechs inside are repairing anyways, so there's a natural advantage.

[DM30]

If you know the enemy is using EMPs, don't drop a shield unless it's to purposely bait the EMP from them. Stand behind it instead of in it like Loc said. If you're getting consistently EMP'd inside shields then you're doing something wrong.

On the other side of the argument, yes, EMPs against clustered enemies are very effective. That's one of the things they're designed for. However, they're somewhat slow, easy to see coming and loud, so if people aren't moving to avoid them so that they're just 'free kills' then they're also doing something wrong.

I don't like 'git gud' arguments, but that kind of is what this boils down to. EMPs used to be broken, but I really don't find them to be now.

Edited by DM30, 06 May 2015 - 04:34 AM.

[Fulano2]

I hate EMP. I think it's radius should be reduced.

 

There is nothing more irritating than someone who keeps throwing EMP's at you and then running away, clearly abusing it.

[_incitatus]

I hate EMP. I think it's radius should be reduced.

There is nothing more irritating than someone who keeps throwing EMP's at you and then running away, clearly abusing it.

Yeah, I hate when people do that. I wonder why that happens to you of all people???

[WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW]

I think EMPs are a necessary evil to break up death balls. Besides that, I have had both laughs and frustrations with the EMP, executing silly escapes as well as experiencing rude interruptions to killing others.

I think the most un-fun situation is losing a kill that would otherwise be taken. EMPs can be used both defensively and offensively, while also counting shields.

Balance and fun taken together, I think the best solution is to base the duration of the EMP on how long the player charges the EMP, much like how a player charging the shield causes it to launch farther. This preserves the strategic element of the EMP while reducing its potential as a desperate trick that mostly serves to frustrate attackers (who normally secure the kill anyway).

[-Tj-]

Except the EMP always wins over the shield. And while it's at it, it also stuns your mech.

 

While it always wins over the shield (providing it hits, of course), it doesn't necessarily stun your mech. Stay outside the shield, or at least near the back of it when facing your opponent, so when you see the EMP you can back up and not get EMP'd.

 

Not that I necessarily like the damned things. For whatever reason, I always seem to find myself inside the EMP radius, even when I think I'm well outside of it... and whenever I use them the radius seems much smaller than the enemy's. Despite that, I do enjoy the variety, and the way it works now is much better than when it traveled in a straight line like the Detonator (along with it's insanely high stun time and planet-sized radius).

 

If they tweak it, a small radius reduction sounds good.

[kasei]

The only time I really have an issue with them is when they're spammed. Fighting against 3 zerkers spitting out EMPs every couple of seconds isn't fun. Increase the cooldown of EMPs, and my main gripe is solved. Also, if an EMP hits a shield they should just cancel each other out. That way a shield can also be used as a counter to EMPs.

Edited by kasei, 08 May 2015 - 04:23 AM.

[eth0]

Does EMP disable abilities for any mechs? I know it does for the turkey.

[DieselCat]

The only time I really have an issue with them is when they're spammed. Fighting against 3 zerkers spitting out EMPs every couple of seconds isn't fun. Increase the cooldown of EMPs, and my main gripe is solved. Also, if an EMP hits a shield they should just cancel each other out. That way a shield can also be used as a counter to EMPs.

 

^^This

[n3onfx]

I hate EMP. I think it's radius should be reduced.

 

There is nothing more irritating than someone who keeps throwing EMP's at you and then running away, clearly abusing it.

 

Wait using an EMP to escape is abusing it? So using a shield to escape is also abusing it then? And using an orb to repair is abusing it? Using a scrambler to scramble is abusing?

[Panzermanathod]

 Using a scrambler to scramble is abusing?

 

It is. It's radar abuse. You're hurting the radar and as such must be banned.

 

But, in all seriousness, I've had little trouble with EMPs. Granted I rarely find someone good with the dang things anyway.

[_incitatus]

Wait using an EMP to escape is abusing it? So using a shield to escape is also abusing it then? And using an orb to repair is abusing it? Using a scrambler to scramble is abusing?

Yes. When you EMP someone but don't kill them, this is offensive.

[phed]

There are some people I emp just to annoy them.

I'll emp them so they can't do anything while I waste my time with a taunt.

Cheers.

[TerasCell]

I'm glad the EMP gets rid of shields. Some mechs spam shields in retreat, three in a row, and are a pain. Other mechs stand in the shield and wait for me to come in. No sir. You get an EMP. And you get an EMP. And you over there, an EMP. Everyone gets an EMP.

 

If they don't want to get EMP'd they can leave their shield.

 

What I don't like is how the EMP bounces unpredictably on terrain. One time it clipped the smallest protrusion in origin that doesn't even lift up your mech when you walk on it. Well the EMP clipped it and bounced directly back at me and hit me.

 

And the EMP against allies is a great tool when you have the dbag on your team who is roof camping in Frontline. A few EMP's ruins their fun and sometimes convinces them to play fair.

Edited by TerasCell, 10 May 2015 - 04:18 PM.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

And the EMP against allies is a great tool when you have the dbag on your team who is roof camping in Frontline. A few EMP's ruins their fun and sometimes convinces them to play fair.

 

I haven't seen that particular exploiter in a while.

[Rei]

I'm fine with the EMP. I love the item a lot and think it's a lot of fun. It's also one of the few ways an A class can fight a C class on equal footing.