120 replies to this topic

[ticklemyiguana]

This is something of an anecdotal comparative study hypothesis observation with several data points on one side of the comparison, and one data point on the other side.

 

In other words, it may not be accurate.

 

I am a 2500 MMR player on two accounts. I create a new account every time there's an update that effects new player experience. I typically discard them by giving them off to friends or simply letting them die. Usually, 100% of the time, within less than two days of play, I am above 2000 MMR. Not this time. After almost a week of play since the pricing update, my account lies at 1787 MMR despite a K/D of 6.87 and a win percentage of 85%. I believe I average a gain of about 5 MMR a game on this account. I intentionally try extra hard to get out of the lower levels to reach a standpoint comparable to a new player's experience (in terms of score per minute and how much HC you're earining.) It has always worked in the past, because I usually gain something like 20 points a match, if not more.

 

For the first day or so, I am usually scoring between 4 and 10 times the next person down. Well, after a week of play, this is still happening. New accounts should have MMR adjusted faster than others, not slower.

 

The account is TestHAWKEN002 (No, not TestHAWKEN001, an old account donated in full to a friend).

 

Is anyone else who does this experiencing a similar issue? Is this account related? Or am I losing my mind?

Edited by ticklemyiguana, 13 June 2015 - 10:01 PM.

[Elite_is_salty]

Yeah MMR has frozen for me too. Sometimes there are those 2200+ servers and whenever I'm top 2 in my team MMR would go up by 10 or even more if I'm MVP. And recently it happened multiple times and my MMR goes up by 2 or 3 or 5 at best.

 

I'm fine with that as long as drops are a max of 5.

[CrimsonKaim]

MMR feels weird for me as well, my  mystery is that I gain MMR for bad matches (KDR below 1.0, low score, etc.) and I lose MMR for good matches (good KDR, score, etc.).

 

 

But since MMR is not a reflection of individual skill, it isn't that worthy anyways. The only thing that makes somethign broken is the MM thinking it would be individual skill. 

 

Ofcourse we can expect 1100 MMR players to be muc hworse than 2000 ones, still, I see these players dominating 2000 MMR ppl ... and that not quite rarely.

Might be smurfs though, don't know.

[HassanTheAssassin]

This is my Battle Tech YOLO-mad-mech fun account. I was clicking along at about 10 to 20 or more points up per game.

DM or TDM is a wild ride, no one expects a Tech to Rek 'em. Easy Money.

I last recorded my mmr at 5/13 @1762, then did a couple of intensely intoxicated nights, recorded a very surprising drop on 6/12 @1739. 

I'm sort of static/stuck in the 1650 to 1750 area depending on gameplay, but this surprised me--badly; I seriously expected to finish the week hugging 1800mmr or at least breaking even.

 

No, you're not losing your mind. "Something" is going on that is restricting or reducing point-awarding (or whatever you call it).

[LaurenEmily]

I haven't noticed any difference. When i  monitor my mmr more closely i can tell how much it has changed by the end of the match pretty accurately without looking, and most of the time there have been no major surprises. But then again i don't really do that so much as of lately...

[crockrocket]

This is my Battle Tech YOLO-mad-mech fun account. I was clicking along at about 10 to 20 or more points up per game.

DM or TDM is a wild ride, no one expects a Tech to Rek 'em. Easy Money.

I last recorded my mmr at 5/13 @1762, then did a couple of intensely intoxicated nights, recorded a very surprising drop on 6/12 @1739. 

I'm sort of static/stuck in the 1650 to 1750 area depending on gameplay, but this surprised me--badly; I seriously expected to finish the week hugging 1800mmr or at least breaking even.

 

No, you're not losing your mind. "Something" is going on that is restricting or reducing point-awarding (or whatever you call it).

 

Nearly ever time i play intoxicated - on any account - I lose mmr. Sometimes this can be *very* significant, i.e. 50 -100 mmr down depending on how f***** I was

[SparkyJJC]

Was at 1888, dropped to 1810 after an alleged 2000mmr player joined. Only been able to increment my MMR by 7 at a time at most, but I'm more or less stuck there even if I do good in a match.

[Aregon]

I remember back in the good ol` days when my MMR was about to reach 2k, but then sank with 200 in about a month.

 

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

My current 'TestHAWKEN007' (not the actual name) account is climbing at about 14 MMR an hour played.  Its currently at 1995 MMR.

 

It is less than 1 week old, and it is currently Pilot Lvl 21.  My account before that was one week old, and pilot level 30 (2x weekend over Memorial Day),  I kept the one before THAT longer, I put it away at 2050+ - I was playing a very small pool of people at that point (beating up on Armored Klown, getting PoopSlinger's attention, that sort of thing).

 

Tickle, I keep choosing 3-star or better (one/two star where HerokuApp shows the average MMR is higher than my current), and I top the leaderboard (sometimes by a lot if the current server's MMR is high, I try to keep the stomping to a minimum, so only by a little when the server is kinda-low.  I don't "intentionally try to get out of the lower ranges fast by stomping big" as that doesn't matter - all that matters is finishing in position 1 in terms of score/min with at least two minutes of play in the match). 

 

Besides, the point for me is to play a wider diversity of players and get matches quickly.  EVERY player has something to show me.

 

The other observation is that you may be running into other veterans in alt accounts who are infesting the 1700-1900 range and taking the top spots.  If the server is 1900 or higher, I don't hold back in my play.  If it's below that, I am very selective about setting my targets and often intentionally slow my scoring down (again, the stomping thing/new player experience).

 

 

 

Tl;dr:  No, MMR is the same.

Edited by Call_Me_Ishmael, 14 June 2015 - 04:45 AM.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

Actually, we may be cluttering the 1900-2000 range with abandoned accounts.  If MMR's b-value *is* tied to a sample of the current calculation, that would widen the cumulative curve's ramp (make the slope less steep), and you'd make the extremes in the server ranking score more, the middle less.

 

If this is the case, then scoring middle-of-server would give you slightly less MMR, and middle-top less than before, but the top-top still gets the most.  And Stubborn_Puppet would be vindicated :)

 

So... maybe, but I don't think so.

Edited by Call_Me_Ishmael, 14 June 2015 - 05:20 AM.

[ticklemyiguana]

Welllllllllll this thread isn't about losing mmr, but perhaps they're related. Also Luna, I haven't yet not taken the top spot in a game I played from the beginning on this account, win or lose. Not once. That is why this is concerning me. New players top scoring by hundreds and hundreds of points every game should not be stuck in that range for so long. The system should recognize what is happening and work faster than it is right now.

If nothing has actually changed, then I have no idea. I haven't had this issue in the past.

Edited by ticklemyiguana, 14 June 2015 - 06:48 AM.

[Silverfire]

Mmr gain is slower for me, been trying to get a smurf out of the 1900 range for quite a while but it's just feeling slower. I MVP for 3 matches in a row and only gain like 6 MMR. Checked with Scrimbot and PublicMMR on the herokuapp.

Edited by Silverfire, 14 June 2015 - 06:50 AM.

[ticklemyiguana]

As an aside, it has just occurred to me that I have been sticking around on the same servers longer than on my other accounts. People seem to be more conversational. That being said, I should still notice a solid rise in a three star server the first game or two, which I am not.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

Shrug.  I am climbing as fast as ever...  just broke 2000 this am in the current account.  I created it last Monday.  I have a full-time job, too :)

[Sp3ctrr]

I can't even break 2k, I've got there before, but it's as though a singular death sets you back greatly.

 

I've been in matches where things have swung completely in my favour, I can dominate 3 people, only die twice etc etc. yet my mmr will increase only fractionally, If i'm lucky.

 

For somebody who owns all the mechs and no longer plays just to upgrade their mechs, it's thoroughly annoying.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

For MMR to increase a lot, you have to play in a server over your current MMR, and do well - top half.  Score in first place, more than 200 MMR over your head, it'll move by 17.5 or so.

[comic_sans]

I can't even break 2k, I've got there before, but it's as though a singular death sets you back greatly.

 

I've been in matches where things have swung completely in my favour, I can dominate 3 people, only die twice etc etc. yet my mmr will increase only fractionally, If i'm lucky.

 

For somebody who owns all the mechs and no longer plays just to upgrade their mechs, it's thoroughly annoying.

 

Try not dying at all.  Not joking, biggest factor in letting your mmr go down, in my experience.

Edited by &THC& comic_sans, 14 June 2015 - 08:11 AM.

[WmMoneyFrmMissouri]

Blame Wm Money and his exceptional tow accuracy MUAHAHAHA !!

[nepacaka]

Try not dying at all.  Not joking, biggest factor in letting your mmr go down, in my experience.

 

don't think.

i'm dying alot, almost have a K/D ratio 1/1 and have a 2100 mmr.

and i deal about ~0.9 dmg, playing only on C-class.

 

currently mmr system is actually lie about real player skill, they calculated from gained exp and game time.

my mmr should be in ~1800, cuz i play very poorly (if compared with other high-rated players). somethin wrong in this...

[Panzermanathod]

Perhaps you managed to ebb your way into some equilibrium where you managed to get yourself stable in that MMR, Nepa.

 

Granted, MMR is, indeed, weird.

[hestoned]

It's just xp gain during a game. Go play tech and your mmr will skyrocket

[ThirdEyE]

Josh did say in the last Q&A that he wanted to increase the maximum MMR gain for exceptionally good players (aka smurfs) to get out of low MMR brackets faster.  Wonder if he accidentally did the opposite?

 

Also I haven't noticed this, but I also don't really check my mmr compulsively.  Might test it today on Turdeye.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

Josh did say in the last Q&A that he wanted to increase the maximum MMR gain for exceptionally good players (aka smurfs) to get out of low MMR brackets faster.  Wonder if he accidentally did the opposite?

 

Don't think so (pretty sure that'd be a C++ change), but I can check with a new acct.  Newbies, incoming!

Edited by Call_Me_Ishmael, 14 June 2015 - 10:14 AM.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

Okay, brand-new acct, 1250 start.

 

1 match, 1310 server, top score, mmr went to 1296, a 46pt gain.  This is more than I expected.  Will check next server (for Science!)

2nd match, 1380 server, top score, mmr climbed to 1340, a 54pt gain.  Also more than expected, but don't yet believe MMR changed...

3rd match, 1350 server (only one available), top score, mmr now at 1372.  Will use server browser from here.

5th match, 1420 server, top score, mmr at 1449, moving upward at about 33/match.

 

After the 6th match, MMR gain is back to 34 (expected) when I play over my 'level'. 
 

I don't think MMR changed.

Edited by Call_Me_Ishmael, 14 June 2015 - 01:58 PM.

[CraftyDus]

I stopped smurfing so hard

It has had a significant effect on global mmr function

careful what you wish for etc

 

[SparkyJJC]

I can't even break 2k, I've got there before, but it's as though a singular death sets you back greatly.

 

That's because you and I keep effing around in preds and singing the spongebob theme with redubbed lyrics so it's about Joseph Stalin instead

[HepTagoN]

my account lies at 1787 MMR despite a K/D of 6.87 and a win percentage of 85%. I believe I average a gain of about 5 MMR a game on this account. I intentionally try extra hard to get out of the lower levels

 

 

 but I can check with a new acct.  Newbies, incoming!

 

 

Okay, brand-new acct, 1250 start.

 

1 match, 1310 server, top score, mmr went to 1296, a 46pt gain.  This is more than I expected.  Will check next server (for Science!)

2nd match, 1380 server, top score, mmr climbed to 1340, a 54pt gain.  Also more than expected, but don't yet believe MMR changed...

3rd match, 1350 server (only one available), top score, mmr now at 1372.  Will use server browser from here.

5th match, 1420 server, top score, mmr at 1449, moving upward at about 33/match.

 

I feel a bit bad, tho.

 

Keep wondering why new players have bad experience. 85% win ratio?? 6 k/d ratio?? You both are disgusting.

 

I wish devs will ban you. In your face.

Edited by HepTagoN, 14 June 2015 - 01:27 PM.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

More like 18.00 k/d, and 100% W/L.

Edited by Call_Me_Ishmael, 14 June 2015 - 01:38 PM.

[ticklemyiguana]

It's just xp gain during a game. Go play tech and your mmr will skyrocket

I made this mistake in my first account. With tech you're limited by your teams skill, whereas in other mechs, not so much. Unless the game is balanced for our level, I typically score higher not being one.

Josh did say in the last Q&A that he wanted to increase the maximum MMR gain for exceptionally good players (aka smurfs) to get out of low MMR brackets faster. Wonder if he accidentally did the opposite?

Also I haven't noticed this, but I also don't really check my mmr compulsively. Might test it today on Turdeye.

I thought about this possibility certainly.

Okay, brand-new acct, 1250 start.

1 match, 1310 server, top score, mmr went to 1296, a 46pt gain. This is more than I expected. Will check next server (for Science!)
2nd match, 1380 server, top score, mmr climbed to 1340, a 54pt gain. Also more than expected, but don't yet believe MMR changed...
3rd match, 1350 server (only one available), top score, mmr now at 1372. Will use server browser from here.
5th match, 1420 server, top score, mmr at 1449, moving upward at about 33/match.

I feel a bit bad, tho.

Maybe they changed it. Still not the range this account is in though, I didn't keep track of it then.

I stopped smurfing so hard
It has had a significant effect on global mmr function
careful what you wish for etc

I'd like to see stats on it. I hope not.

Keep wondering why new players have bad experience. 85% win ratio?? 6 k/d ratio?? You both are disgusting.

I wish devs will ban you. In your face.

Bite me, hept. There's more than one way to go about it. I sit when it gets too unbalanced, about a quarter of my match is spent typing, explaining how to avoid what I just did, and more than a couple players have been introduced to the forums when asking for advice through me, not to mention showing up to events and becoming part of the community.

You know how hard it is to get good at this game on your own? Sometimes I think it's almost disgraceful that new players have such limited access to experienced play.

All in all, once I convince people I'm not hacking, generally people actually stay in the server for an hour or more. By the numbers, when I do this its typically good for the game. Albeit, I am awaiting results on its impact on global MMR levels and gaps.

PS, none of that even touched the fact that information on new player experience is gained when things are updated or when I ask the super simple question "how are you guys liking the game so far?"

Edited by ticklemyiguana, 14 June 2015 - 01:44 PM.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

yeah, Hept, bite me.  I try to HELP new players, and in this experiment, I am clearly stating what I am doing and why to the server.

 

After the 6th match, MMR gain is back to 34 (expected) when I play over my 'level'. 
 

I don't think MMR changed. 

 

The account I used is 'LIttleDeuceCoupe', and I'll play it for a little while at the highest MMR servers I can find.  Let's see if I can make it to 2000+ within a week.

 

Typically, I would play Bots to about 1600 (when I am bored to tears with them) before joining the server pop.  I think I can play against experts already (server browser), and I'll play the highest servers I can - or offer instruction and critique when I can't, while I pilot Deuce to the rare air.

Bite me, Hept.  Bite me.

[GalaxyRadio]

New Smurf to collect data from Hacker - After 15 Hours 2000 MMR and i was sitting out many times as well, so nothing changed for me (EU). In fact i was wondering we EU players got even more mmr then before. It was rare to see players above 2300 MMR, now its nothing special anymore and most players with 2300+ reached 2400-2550 region.

 

Maybe US is different, i don't know, cause i can't play there anymore. Before the new devs i had at least some possible servers with 80-100 ping, so it wasn't frustrating, now i have at best 150+

 

But seriously, we have much more important things then wondering about mmr like hackers, getting new players, new content, make hawken more enjoyable for casual players to fill the gap between 1600-2200 mmr and improve many things overall. MMR is the most uninteresting thing in the game....

 

Galaxy Radio

Edited by GalaxyRadio, 14 June 2015 - 02:34 PM.

[ticklemyiguana]

 
But seriously, we have much more important things then wondering about mmr like hackers, getting new players, new content, make hawken more enjoyable for casual players to fill the gap between 1600-2200 mmr and improve many things overall. MMR is the most uninteresting thing in the game....
 
Galaxy Radio

Not when the rate at which mmr is gained directly impacts the experience of new players...

[Kopra]

 

Typically, I would play Bots to about 1600 (when I am bored to tears with them) before joining the server pop. 

 

How do you increase your MMR against bots?

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

play them?

[ticklemyiguana]

play them?

In my experience you don't gain MMR against bots, but I haven't played against them since before the old devs left.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

Let me run a quick test.

 

Coop TDM MMR did not move, but pilot level did.

Edited by Call_Me_Ishmael, 14 June 2015 - 04:09 PM.

[Kopra]

It doesn't affect MMR.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

Agreed.  My journey through  the lower ranks has left crushed MMR behind.

[SatelliteJack]

That's because you and I keep effing around in preds and singing the spongebob theme with redubbed lyrics so it's about Joseph Stalin instead

First of all, this is one of my favorite posts ever.

Secondly, this thread makes me feel less awful about my MMR. I was around 1770 and climbing, but suddenly plummeted to 1720 or less. I don't know what happened, but my level of performance is exactly as mediocre as it was before, so it's not like I suddenly got terrible. Though, on a couple of occasions, I have been getting extra wrecked by the likes of ThirdEyE, Culex, Runa, and others. Maybe that has something to do with it?

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

those are all 2200+ players, and if they're in your server, will take the top spot and shift the server average upward.  Yes, they (in their mains) will have a bigger deleterious effect on your MMR than if they were in alts (appropriate for the server level).

Edit:  the system WILL penalize you for playing over your head and not scoring in the top half.

Edited by Call_Me_Ishmael, 14 June 2015 - 04:51 PM.