120 replies to this topic

[Dr_Freeze001]

 

 

Good day ladies and gentlemen. I am proud to announce that the sign-up period for the first season of the HAWKEN EU COMP LEAGUE.

 

The gamemode we�ll be playing is called VIP, or Priority Target. This involves tactical play, spedialised team composition and a custom ruleset. I�ve made up this document with all the info you�ll ever need:

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZWv-2rg4pJPcSb_OY7m6l8HrTC3kMfL8TRKePgjqC5I/edit?usp=sharing

 

A team consists of 4 player and a maximum of two reserves. If you�re interested in joining please fill in either on of the forms:

 

- Signups are over. If you have any questions please get in contact with [email protected]. 

 

- Check out https://community.pl...-participation/if you haven't been confirmed yet for a team.

 

IMPORTANT: Make sure to use the callsign you use in-game or on the forums. Either than or give me an e-mail I can contact you on. If I can't get back to you I can't put you in a team.

 

Now, the league will begin July 20th, so you have time until then to make/join a team. However, until that time, please do get to know the teams and play some friendly matches until the season starts. Remember, you are always allowed to do friendly matches and scrims for training purposes. GeneralJWJ will have a list of the teams in the post below.

 

Currently a season will last 2 months. After this time the scores will be compared and a winner will be decided. Of course, this is if a 1 match/week format will be upheld. It�s possible that, depending on the feedback during the experimental period, we will increase this amount, and as such the time for a season will be reduced.  

 

The goal will be for you, the teams, to experiment and give feedback on the rules (I�m specifically thinking about Air Compressor, Technicians and Repair Charges here).

 

So, to recap:

 

• June 28- July 8 : Experimental period.

• July 9 - July 20 : Initial feedback period and finalization of the teams.

• July 20 - September 20 : Season 1.

 

 

 

 

Let's get this party started!

 

 

EDIT: PRIZES!

 

 

• Forum badges for all participants.
• < 20 participants: 5000, 2500 and 1250 MC.
• > 20 participants: 5000, 2500, 2500, 1250, 1250 and 1250 MC.

Post HERE.

 

 

 

This event is brought to you by (KDR) Dr_Freeze001, (KDR) Batpanda and GeneralJWJ. Also DerMax and Hrono. In association with the Hawken TPG league.

Edited by (KDR) Dr_Freeze001, 25 July 2015 - 09:15 AM.

[GeneralJWJ]

Hello! I'll be helping Freeze out with this team list so keep an eye out for this post that I'll edit with the names as they are submitted.

 

Registered Teams:

 

- Team Name: Mystery Magic Rozer, First player: (KDR) Kopra, Second Player: (KDR) Meraple, Third Player: (KRD) Rozermahbub, Fourth Player: (KDR) Dr_Freeze001, Fifth Player: (KDR) Mania_C, Sixth Player: Arduval

 

- Team Name: The Casuals, First Player: Hrono, Second Player: Dermax, Third Player: Karnak, Fourth player: Memag, Fifth Player: Epictoy, Sixth Player: H0pe

 

- Team Name: Boston tea Baggy, First Player: Craftydus, Second Player: M1lkshake, Third Player: Hyginos, Fourth Player: GGanjomon, Fifth Player: Toemasher, Sixth Player: CounterLogicMan

 

- Team Name: BulletImpact, First player: vaisakhjnr, Second Player: Spidy2121, Third Player: blaze88, Fourth Player: BFAB7, Fifth Player: ///, Sixth Player: ///

 

- Team Name: DestroyerSquad, First Player: TheDestroyer7, Second Player: ScaryToaster, Third Player: randomg, Fourth Player: Space_Energy, Fifth Player: Ishara, Sixth Player: dinosaurusREX

 

- Team Name: Clan CBN, First Player: CBN Zindo, Second Player: CBN Skankman, Third Player: CBN Wolf, Fourth Player: CBN DarkSpake, Fifth Player: ///, Sixth Player: ///

 

- Team Name: G-Unit_Squad, First Player: 50_Cent_Soldie, Second Player: KarlSchlag, Third Player: Karlkuel, Fourth Player: Crazykraut, Fifth Player: Bastiator, Sixth Player: HawKinator_

 

- Team Name: cool mech, First Player: olan77H, Second Player: arkk1, Third Player: drax21, Fourth Player: upinipin, Fifth player: ///, Sixth Player: ///

 

- Team Name: Pizzabangstormweaselparty64, First Player: DisorderlyMechanic, Second player: HepTagoN, Third Player: iDim, Fourth Player: n3onfx, Firth Player: (KDR) Pandabaron, Sixth Player: Virtual_ManPL

 

- Team Name: WOTOFO, First Player: ___Tesla___, Second Player: TheGrayWizard, Third Player: KaliCyberpunk, Fourth Player: Armoured, fifth player: yanzkie, sixth player: ///

 

- Team Name: Crushing Kill, First Player: Erzunterweltler, Second Player: LaurenEmily, Third Player: Shoutaxeror, Fourth Player: Bergwein, Fifth Player: M4xxim, Sixth Player: bernisv

 

Players Looking For Teams:

 

- I2DI, timezone GMT+3H, ability: tech, brawler, mainly supporting the team.

 

- charlize, timezone ????, ability: G2 assault.

 

- SantiagoPazM, Timezone US EAST, ability: pretty good with a vanguard.

 

- Sergey_RUS, Timezone UTC+1:00/UTC+2:00 (CET/CEST), ability: competent at assault.

 

- LovelifeSIF, Timezone Philippines (UTC+8H), ability: support, stealth and assault especially defence.

 

- eth0, Timezone EST, ability: support, tank, anything

 

- CapAllan, Timezone Dehli, Kolkata, ability: Suppression

 

- Hordes Of Bunnies, Timezone Illinois, ability: Infiltration and elimination of damaged or lone target

 

- loveliveSIF, Timezone Philipinnes time, ability: any (WAIT A SECOND YOU'RE ALREADY ON THE LIST WHY HOW DARE YOU)

 

- blastcourse15, Timezone North America, ability: defender

 

- Rogerthat21, Timezone US Pacific, ability: great at holding siege positions, teamwork coordinating, tactical attacks

 

- voodookiller, Timezone US Eastern, ability: heavy support

 

- han986, Timezone ///, ability: A-class

 

- Zombie4loan, Timezone Denver, ability: Pro Sniper Lone Wolf

 

- pazousu, Timezone ///, ability: Tech

 

- Scrap_Ye_Doo, Timezone US central, ability: Scout, good at predicting enemy's next move, not affraid to take the shot

 

- 3099504067, Timezone ///, ability: self defence master

 

- Spinelicker, Timezone Arizona, ability: Grenadier hell yeah fire!

 

- randomg, timezone asia, ability: versatile (you are also on a team roster that was submitted one hour before this solo roster what is going on)

 

- paulb, timezone European, ability: predator, sharpshooter

 

- XANOK, timezone GMT+3, ability: pred, any c-class

 

- Schredder220, timezone ///, ability: Allrounder, used to nearly all mechs, exc. sharpshooer. MMR nearly 2000. Looking for team with at least comparable "good" players

 

- B3yondtheflesh, timezone US Eastern Standard Time, ability: All rounded for the most part. However, I'm at best with the Incinerator and assault mechs.

 

- BONEZeternal, Timezone US Eastern Standard Time, ability: Tech, Pred, Sniper

 

- krzysiek123, Timezone Europe, ability: Scout

 

- COG12, Timezone GMT+1, ability: good at flanking, good in CQC

 

- SEFERC, Timezone ISTANBUL, ability: BRUISER

 

- aquaphoenix, Timezone Central Time Zone (UTC-06:00), ability: standing ground

 

- stupiakyolo, Timezone UTC+8H, ability: most C class and some B class

 

- draco3, Timezone GMT+8 (Western Australia, Perth), ability: any class

 

- theterminatorx201, timezone Europe, ability: radar brouilleur (means radar scrambler)

 

- dxdy, Timezone CET, ability: Sharpshooter/Rocketeer/Reaper/Getting in the goddamn AA

 

- recruit2307, Timezone US East Coast, ability: Ranged suppression and using incinerator

 

- buzz87, Timezone GMT+3h, ability: tech, assault

 

- guns-of-glory, Timezone Australia, ability: cool down weapons

 

- badger131, timezone Eastern, ability: yes

 

- Kingstonian, Timezone US EST, ability: big time support guy, i will clean up your mess or get hp low enough for my teammates to make the kill. I'm great at holding down enemies with suppression fire and i average a decent k/d and damage/damage taken ratio.

 

- Cookegs, Timezone GMT+1 (Rome), ability: Good Berserker, healer or sniper or

 

- oc7o, Timezone GMT+3H, ability: Good at flanking

 

- Starkserg, Timezone (UTC+05:00) Ekaterinburg (RTZ 4), ability: INCINERATOR, SCOUT, ROCKETEER

 

- CBN Zindo, Timezone ///, ability: C class

 

- SpaJs, Timezone GMT+1h, ability: good as type A mechs

 

- Spyro69f, Timezone UTC-08:00) Pacific Time, ability: Assault

 

- simolmeglio, Timezone Rome GMT+1, ability: berserker, incinerator, infiltrator and tech

 

- Jack_GOD, Timezone India, ability: good with assault

 

- Commander_Darkstar, Timezone GMT UK, ability: light classes such as berserker but I'm a flexible player

 

- Sardhak, Timezone ///, ability: flanking

 

- Brooklyn77, Timezone US Eastern, ability: flanking, pred, infil, tech, beserker, grenadier

 

- PolarShaman, Timezone Helsinki UTC+3, ability: assault, semi good

 

- CommanderMECHX, Timezone UK, ability: Advanced tactical attacks

 

- Unreal, Timezone Europe, ability: good assault

 

- Polarford, Timezone Alaska, ability: support

 

- cools71, Timezone London, ability: good all rounder in multiple mechs

 

- Macanica, Timezone US, ability: suppressive fire from afar

 

- XP01, Timezone ///, ability: any c-class

 

- reflex_widget, Timezone US Eastern Standard, ability: bruiser/skirmisher... reaper assassin

 

- Tarokf, Timezone France, ability: pro predator

 

- BlindHaze, Timezone US CST, Scout - flanking, finishing mechs, location call-outs

 

- Demonfuge, Timezone GMT, ability: currently running technician

 

- Alibomb, Timezone Eastern US, ability: Good with TOW det., recruit and scout

 

- test, Timezone ///, ability: nope (assuming this is some kind of fake submission someone made for some reason but whatever)

 

- Justu2222, Timezone US Eastern, ability: Assault class, ground gainer, surviving, ground holding

 

- Deathlord2000, Timezone ///, ability: Good at pred

 

- Schredder220, Timezone Europe, ability: Allrounder MMR nearly 2000, good teamplayer, used to nearly all meachs

 

- J321, Timezone US mountain standard, ability: long distance sniping

 

- 00YxYx00, Timezone Europe, ability: assault

 

- VelkynTv, Timezone GMT+1H, ability: sharpshooter/assault

 

- abdousen, Timezone ///, ability: very good at help and frag

 

- E_tothe_X, Timezone US Pacific, ability good at flanking and support with C class vehicles. Best mechs are Incinerator and Rocketeer

 

- Vetus, timezone ///, ability: good sniper

 

- olan, timezone GMT+7, ability: good in incinerator

 

- ahtovin, timezone central time, ability: flanking/kiting

 

- Davydbrh, timezone US Central, ability: good at offence, fast mechs, and slow

 

- Csabi333, Timezone UTC+2h, ability: Good at flanking.Very good with the infiltrator.I play only A classes, 99% infiltrator.

 

- LSDavid, Timezone GMT+1, ability: good with a light mech

 

- magasqw, Timezone ///, ability: heavy mechs, predator

 

- Leandrogoval, Timezone GMT -3H, ability: c-class

 

- andiomano, Timezone US Pacific Standard, ability: bruiser & berzerker - good at mid range and teamwork offensive

 

- UrKe24, Timezone UTC+1, ability: good at fighting

 

- Strike_IRISH_1, Timezone Mountain USA, ability: Fred, Assult rifle, Flanking cleanup. Rooketeer Skirmish, Flanking, barrage,

 

- xjei, timezone Europe, ability: suppresion with Incinerator or flanking with a-classes

 

- robotven, Timezone Denmark, ability: good with the bruiser (homing missiles)

 

- ThatOneBruh, Timezone ///, ability: good at offense

 

- torkmandukk, timezone UTC+1, ability: Good at staying alive in both leading and supporting roles. Maxed out almost all mechs (only few heavies remain), level 30, 200 hours played since 2012, great overall KTD ratio (1.6)..

 

- moo, Timezone ///, ability: no (assuming this is a joke submission too)

 

- Richie_McCaw, Timezone Melbourne, ability: Sharpshooter or 3rd tier rocketeer

 

- Pweedle, Timezone ///, ability: suppression

 

- TheDanger, Timezone US PST, ability: assault

 

- ALG, Timezone ///, ability: good with vanguard and assault

 

- FairyPrincess927, Timezone US Eastern, ability: Pred/Assault/Rocket. Siege mode

 

- Clownpop, Timezone AEST melbourne , ability: great at rocketeer/reaper

 

- wavseeker, Timezone EU, ability: rocketeer,bruiser,sharpshooter

 

- Hardlicks, Timezone Philippine Time UTC/GMT +8 hours, ability: Predator, Rocketeer, Incinerator

 

- AnaruOrochi, Timezone Italy, ability: Tech, Vanguard

 

- Avatarix, timezone +1 CET, ability: nice supporting, suppresing and a little bit of a burst berserker

 

- DaBigStiffy, Timezone UTC+9 (Okinawa), ability: I play a Technician. I'm getting rather successful at it.

 

- Hexfire, timezone US pacific, ability: Light Mechs

 

- bukkakijack, timezone ///, ability: flanking and assualt

 

- NFSMAN11, timezone Europe (i think?), ability: Rushing

 

- BuRaK833, timezone ///, ability: spearheading, raider and assault

 

- happycedi, timezone Switzerland, ability: predator

 

- KISZnexus, timezone Germany, ability: a-class

 

- SWIFTER_Jango, timezone GMT, ability: Support, Flanking, Equal with all mechs

 

- azansas, timezone ///, ability: pred

 

- HEAVYKEVY, timezone US Pacific, ability: incinerator

 

- jbcvlove, timezone US Central, ability: take a chance

 

- Kuromatsuki, timezone UTC, ability: Assault, Infiltrator, Incinarator, also when buying next will be engineering type

 

- ToySoldierManInc, timezone UTC+1 (Amsterdam), ability: Good at light ranged support and harrassing (e.g. Reaper)

 

- Dryleaves, Timezone GMT+3, ability: scout or zerk

 

- Rackman, timezone ///, ability: sniper

 

- Amidatelion, Timezone DMY-5, ability: assassination, distraction, tanking, face-checking, tactical leadership

 

- eALX, Timezone GMT, ability: Flanking. Chasing weak mechs. Staying alive.

 

- StarSepp, timezone GMT+1, ability: Rockin Gren or Bruiser, others ok also (except scout)

 

- Kiraran13, timezone Jerusalem, ability: pred

Edited by GeneralJWJ, 20 July 2015 - 11:02 AM.

[Aregon]

Must there be any connection between clan and competitive team? 

[Dr_Freeze001]

Must there be any connection between clan and competitive team? 

 

Well, if you're already in a clan it might be best to keep to the people you know. Otherwise there is no connection needed. All we'll look at is the teams. Of course there will be teams with all members from the same clan, but no one is limited or restricted in composing a team.

[Bunnykillkill]

Must there be any connection between clan and competitive team? 

 

Ofc it would help, but ATM it's not a precedence or whatever.

 

Pr�v � f� folk til og fungere som et lag, med 1 LagKaptein, og angrip de som pr�ver og "flanke".

 

Make me a proud Norwayian.

[coldform]

THis. This is so full of awesome.

Edited by {TDM} coldform, 26 June 2015 - 10:18 AM.

[Aregon]

Well, if you're already in a clan it might be best to keep to the people you know. Otherwise there is no connection needed. All we'll look at is the teams. Of course there will be teams with all members from the same clan, but no one is limited or restricted in composing a team.

I just feel it will be a little weird with most of the participants in the comp league will probably be from the same clan. 

[Dr_Freeze001]

I just feel it will be a little weird with most of the participants in the comp league will probably be from the same clan. 

 

I genuinely hope that that won't be the case. There are at least 4 EU based clans of which 2 are able to fill a full comp team. Then there's the possibility of joining an existing team and/or even just random people joining up together. 

[Amidatelion]

I'm thinking I might give the rules a more closer tearing apart but the first thing I noticed is the no-respawn thing. Idle-out time is 3minutes, you may want to post clarifying information regarding that, especially since a concern appears to be matches going on too long.

[Bunnykillkill]

I just feel it will be a little weird with most of the participants in the comp league will probably be from the same clan. 

 

Ofc you do, cause now it seems like KDR is runing the EU side, but remember this:

 

1. KDR does NOT have "all" the good players when it comes to teamwork, or just doing something else than TDM.

 

2. If you or your team wishes (Bad spelling) ask Freeze or Batpanda about rules or anything else regarding unforseen obstacles it you think there might be any .

 

3: FFS, participate. YOU PPL HAVE TO START SOMEWHERE. So why not in the glourious sunshine that is the 2. coming of HWK?

 

4. I think you should be more appreciative (NOT meant for you SIR, but for the community at large that knew this was coming, and have been "training" for it.) I for one know personally that A FRIGGIN GREAT amount of time and effort has been spent on the "EU League" and it would be nice to see some credit where credit is due.

 

Edit: spaces and retarded spelling. >.<

Edited by (KDR) Bunnykillkill, 26 June 2015 - 10:44 AM.

[Dr_Freeze001]

I'm thinking I might give the rules a more closer tearing apart but the first thing I noticed is the no-respawn thing. Idle-out time is 3minutes, you may want to post clarifying information regarding that, especially since a concern appears to be matches going on too long.

 

Now we'll be working on a perma-death principle. Simply put: when you die you do not respawn. I don't think idling out will be a big issue. Out of all the 'test' rounds _{(aka mucking around on UVW)} we've done up till now the long part is getting the first kill, but once that happens it usually ends relatively quickly.

[Dr_Freeze001]

I also want to clarify that this isn't run specifically by [KDR], but simply a group of volunteers.

 

After the experimental time, when the rules and teams will be finalized, I'm planning to get feedback from ever team and plan accordingly. Also, if any decision needs to be made involving hackusations, cheating, exploiting or similar accusations, it'll be a group of people deciding. Not on single person looking looking at footage. That way I'm trying to remove the thread of people playing favorites.

[Bunnykillkill]

My point being from the above posted post, after some feedback from you guys:

 

There are is metricshitton of good European players: SO:

 

1. MMR is fuzzy bunny in MOST circumstances, because it is based on scores as I can understand it (and have seen).

2. Wich means grow some figurative ( or litterally if it feels right) BALLS and go 1v1 against those who are better than you

3. ASK for advice or start training with your friends for the game mode (in the OP)

4. I know it's weird, bur CHALLENGE that one person whom seems superior (in a TDM or something) to a 1v1 and LEARN FROM THEM, DONT just call them aimbotters or hacker or wthev.

 

5. IF you have any proof of cheaters (aimbotters, wallhackers etc.) please report it to the devs. We have them for a reason.

 

TL; DR: Participate!

[CraftyDus]

[Aregon]

Ofc you do, cause now it seems like KDR is runing the EU side, but remember this:

 

1. KDR does NOT have "all" the good players when it comes to teamwork, or just doing something else than TDM.

 

2. If you or your team wishes (Bad spelling) ask Freeze or Batpanda about rules or anything else regarding unforseen obstacles it you think there might be any .

 

3: FFS, participate. YOU PPL HAVE TO START SOMEWHERE. So why not in the glourious sunshine that is the 2. coming of HWK?

 

4. I think you should be more appreciative (NOT meant for you SIR, but for the community at large that knew this was coming, and have been "training" for it.) I for one know personally that A FRIGGIN GREAT amount of time and effort has been spent on the "EU League" and it would be nice to see some credit where credit is due.

 

Edit: spaces and retarded spelling. >.<

1. I never talked about the high-tier people in KDR, but rather all of the members. And while what you say is true, those members who are high-tier outside of KDR are noticeably less active. KDR however do have several of the most active high-tier players, and their shear quantity of members increases the possibility of having most teams in the league also being member of KDR. I am now guessing some, but I feel that several of the creators of the league are also members of KDR, and I beleive that it will be looked upon as "weird", but as of now I am not able to set words on it that hit the point I try to show.

 

2. Irrelevant for me, but probably useful for others.

 

3. A little confused by what you just wrote here, but I will answer after what I think you tried to say. 

I think many will find it difficult to create team due to the fact that the most likely scenario will be that the league will be dominated by one clan. The reason for this may not be that KDR got members who are zealous to join, but their shear size of over 30+ members. This create problems on other arenas also but that is irrelevant for now.

 

4. While appreciating the hard work of the league creators is not bad to do, without criticism there will be little to no change if there is something several people find bad.

 

 

 

My point being from the above posted post, after some feedback from you guys:

 

There are is metricshitton of good European players: SO:

 

1. MMR is fuzzy bunny in MOST circumstances, because it is based on scores as I can understand it (and have seen).

2. Wich means grow some figurative ( or litterally if it feels right) BALLS and go 1v1 against those who are better than you

3. ASK for advice or start training with your friends for the game mode (in the OP)

4. I know it's weird, bur CHALLENGE that one person whom seems superior (in a TDM or something) to a 1v1 and LEARN FROM THEM, DONT just call them aimbotters or hacker or wthev.

 

5. IF you have any proof of cheaters (aimbotters, wallhackers etc.) please report it to the devs. We have them for a reason.

 

TL; DR: Participate!

Note before moar lists: most of the good EU players play mostly with players associated with KDR, thus it would not be surprising if they teamed up with members.

 

1. However there is this awful coincidence that several of the people with high MMR numbers are in fact some of the players with the highest amount of skill on the EU side.

 

2. Or, now this may sound absolutely weird, you can participate without doing a Rocky montage because you just want to.

 

3. If you plan to participate with your friends it will be pretty hard asking them for advice, plus there are many members outside KDR who got no clue how the gamemode works, and will probably have a problem training for it as it will require 4 others to play against you. Besides after what I have understood, KDR has trained in this gamemode (and if not everyone, several members has) and knows better what is smart and not so smart to do.

 

4. While challenging players higher than your skill-level is smart, you do not automatically learn through so. Studies have shown that the best way to learn is through a gentle increase, which will give the player a challenge but still not making it just unfair. This will be a problem as I can imagine the skill-gap from the average "high-tier" to the average "low-tier" will be around 400-600 MMR.

 

5. Irrelevant for my case, however it is equally smart to tell the league founders and show them extensive proof in case the devs have not deleted that hacker.

[Vdragon]

 

The gamemode we�ll be playing is called VIP, or Priority Target. This involves tactical play, spedialised team composition and a custom ruleset. I�ve made up this document with all the info you�ll ever need:

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZWv-2rg4pJPcSb_OY7m6l8HrTC3kMfL8TRKePgjqC5I/edit?usp=sharing

Just saying, but imo, those rules are unadapted to any competitive play, as this is far from optimal for a game that have been conceived and tweaked to work with multiple respawns, team of 6, and gamemodes as TDM and Missile Assault.

Also, the VIP was historically imagined for non-competitive play.

[Bunnykillkill]

Sorry, just skimed trough yer list of my list.

 

Basic: You love to discuss hypotheticals. Love you for it!

 

Err, i dont mean ppl get better by getting stomped by vets.

 

I really do think this is a viable plan to take the EU throne: Learn their weaknesses, Kill them, Taunt Dr_Freeze001. Whatever it takes. REALLY.

 

The rest is coming before i get accused of ....

[Dr_Freeze001]

Just saying, but imo, those rules are unadapted to any competitive play, as this is far from optimal for a game that have been conceived and tweaked to work with multiple respawns, team of 6, and gamemodes as TDM and Missile Assault.

Also, the VIP was historically imagined for non-competitive play.

 

Compared to the 'public' version I think this has been pretty well adapted. It uses mostly modified TPG rules and is made for smaller sized teams. To say that Hawken is made for 6v6 TDM and MA isn't wrong, but then there are the 7v7 and 12v12 variations, siege, all the bot modes, dueling, ... Hawken is relatively well balanced, and as such is a pretty flexible game. VIP should do just fine, and this version was thought up specifically for comp play. 

 

But hey, that's what the experimental period is for. To get good maps, team compositions, overall balancing and hopefully getting most of the edge cases resolved.

[Bunnykillkill]

Compared to the 'public' version I think this has been pretty well adapted. It uses mostly modified TPG rules and is made for smaller sized teams. To say that Hawken is made for 6v6 TDM and MA isn't wrong, but then there are the 7v7 and 12v12 variations, siege, all the bot modes, dueling, ... Hawken is relatively well balanced, and as such is a pretty flexible game. VIP should do just fine, and this version was thought up specifically for comp play. 

 

But hey, that's what the experimental period is for. To get good maps, team compositions, overall balancing and hopefully getting most of the edge cases resolved.

 

Soooo, Yer have to try and fail yes?

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=Eyaf1yMHx54

 

Just because i like you people. And remember. It's all about that https://www.youtube....h?v=Eyaf1yMHx54 .

 

Sry, can't stop now >.<

Edited by (KDR) Bunnykillkill, 26 June 2015 - 12:42 PM.

[Dr_Freeze001]

Soooo, Yer have to try and fail yes?

 

It's already been tried lots, and proven to work. And the experimental period isn't about it just working, it's about it working the best way it can. 

 

Take noodels for example. Sure, you can eat cupramen with a packet of flavor, but it's nothing compared to nice full ramen with freshly made broth, crunshy vegetables and tasty slices of pork and chicken. What we've done is played an unrefined and rough version of VIP. Now it's up to the teams to see if they want extra meat, onion rings or if they'd rather not have that pig's ear floating in there. 

 

I guess you could say that the maps are like choosing which restaurant you wanna go eat or something. I dunno I'm thinking 'bout ramen.

Edited by (KDR) Dr_Freeze001, 26 June 2015 - 12:52 PM.

[crockrocket]

1. I never talked about the high-tier people in KDR, but rather all of the members. And while what you say is true, those members who are high-tier outside of KDR are noticeably less active. KDR however do have several of the most active high-tier players, and their shear quantity of members increases the possibility of having most teams in the league also being member of KDR. I am now guessing some, but I feel that several of the creators of the league are also members of KDR, and I beleive that it will be looked upon as "weird", but as of now I am not able to set words on it that hit the point I try to show.

 

Omni is consistently dominant in NA TPG. They also happen to be a driving force behind the organization of the league. I don't think it's an issue at all.

[Deaod]

I guess secrecy doesn't matter for this anymore: The EU clans were in talks about exactly such a league in Spring/Summer 2014. Only we didnt get to set it up through TPG because the admins of TPG went silent on us. Adhesive basically abandoning the game also didnt help. I will also take the blame for it, partly because i didnt push enough.
Whatever the case, the clans present (and we tried really hard to include everyone we could think of) had already agreed to a basic "constitution" designed to manage relations/matches between clans. The idea was to get a minimal working set of rules that allowed further rules to be specified, while being somewhat resilient against abuse.
 
Houruck informed DrFreeze of the previous effort and its results. DrFreeze then chose to ignore it because he wanted to get the league set up as fast as possible and not institute a long-winded process around rules. The problem with this approach is that it has effectively set up a dictatorship. There is no process in place for disputes, rule-changes, new content, ... .

Thats the big-picture stuff. I have multiple smaller issues with the rules.

• Server setup is unspecified. What gamemode, fraglimit, timelimit, mutators?
• Whats up with the ridiculous "WEAPONS GREEN"? How about just letting the two teams agree when to start firing?
• Who assigns opponents and how?
• Why are certain items/internals banned? Do you have any plans on unbanning these and what conditions would have to be met? And who decided to ban them in the first place?
• Why do you distrust everyone and require them to record the games? Maybe there are teams that have noone with a recent nvidia card or a capture card and thus will have a degraded experience playing.

[Dr_Freeze001]

 

I guess secrecy doesn't matter for this anymore: The EU clans were in talks about exactly such a league in Spring/Summer 2014. Only we didnt get to set it up through TPG because the admins of TPG went silent on us.

 

You may notice that there isn't any 'go to the TPG website and sign up and stuff' anywhere. This is because, for the first season, I want to keep control over as many things as possible and not use a pre-build system. If you do everything yourself you also gain a full understanding of how your system works. Just a little FYI.

 

 

 

 

Whatever the case, the clans present (and we tried really hard to include everyone we could think of) had already agreed to a basic "constitution" designed to manage relations/matches between clans. The idea was to get a minimal working set of rules that allowed further rules to be specified, while being somewhat resilient against abuse.
 
Houruck informed DrFreeze of the previous effort and its results. DrFreeze then chose to ignore it because he wanted to get the league set up as fast as possible and not institute a long-winded process around rules. 

 

This is true. Houruck was kind enough to show me the constitution they agreed already, and I did choose to implement my own ruleset. I've done this for a couple of reasons:

 

The constitution was designed, first and foremost, as a clan-based scrimming system, involving biweekly meeting and voted and all that good stuff. I honestly think a system like that is too complex for a team-based league. I'm not organizing a cross-clan-athon, I'm trying to set up 4 man teams against each other. Also, what the constitution consisted of were rules for the organisation, no actual concrete in-game rules. I can't set up a league without concrete rules, and we've been waiting too long for a league to be set up. Back then, summer 2014, with more active clans it might have worked. I don't believe it will now.

 

 

Basically, it's too complex for this purpose. This is a 4v4 league for people to play, that is a wide scale clan-based system designed to make rules.

 

 

 

 

 The problem with this approach is that it has effectively set up a dictatorship. There is no process in place for disputes, rule-changes, new content, ... .

 

The process is to talk to each other. It's not gonna be me saying 'yay' or 'nay'. If there is a dispute it will be resolved through dialog. Want a rule change? Use the experimental period to ... experiment and see what works. If enough teams have the same opinions the rule change will happen. I'm not sure what you mean by new-content, but in case that means updates to Hawken I honestly doubt anything notewordy (as in: more than the change of already existing mechanics) will happen during the league. But if it does happen you can always out your opinion and discuss. It's not like any team will have an unfair advantage over the other when the change happens to everyone simultaneously.

 

Discussing is basically taking a poll. See how many people have which opinion and act accordingly. 

 

Spoiler

 

For example, a poll that might take place due to feedback: 

 

Subject: Scanners.

 

Options:

• Ban = remove from play.

• Limit = only one person may carry scanners.

• Allow = Full-on allowing it.

Results: 

• 30% ban

• 30% limit

• 40% allow

Steps to be taken: 

 

Here the one with the most votes is 'Allow'. However, it does not reach the >50% mark, and so can't be the correct result. 60% of people did not vote for it. In that case a 2nd poll will be initiated and everyone will be able to vote again on whether it needs to be banned or changed. This 2nd poll is so that, since the 'Allow' team would have wasted it's votes, they can now vote for a second option.

 

 

I'm not gonna try and solve problems that don't exist yet, so we've got 2 weeks to work everything out. First we need dialog and arguments, then votes and finally implementation. 

 

To me, honestly, getting meetings together between representatives is more prone to these few representatives only carrying their own opinions and not that of fellow team members.

 

 

 

 

Thats the big-picture stuff. I have multiple smaller issues with the rules.

• Server setup is unspecified. What gamemode, fraglimit, timelimit, mutators?
• Whats up with the ridiculous "WEAPONS GREEN"? How about just letting the two teams agree when to start firing?
• Who assigns opponents and how?
• Why are certain items/internals banned? Do you have any plans on unbanning these and what conditions would have to be met? And who decided to ban them in the first place?
• Why do you distrust everyone and require them to record the games? Maybe there are teams that have noone with a recent nvidia card or a capture card and thus will have a degraded experience playing.

 

 

 

• Server is which ever server is available. If CA want to scrim on their server and the other team agrees, so be it. Otherwise there are both the UVW servers and Batpanda's glorious Batpanda. Gamemode is VIP, of which the rules are detailed in the document, which includes fraglimit, timelimit and mutators.
   
• 'Weapons green' is a way to, without any confusion, say when the teams are ready. This way people can't say claim false starts or claiming they didn't know they already started. Basically it's like a green light. No confusion possible.
   
• When we get all the teams up and finalize the rules the admins will make the planning.
  Spoiler

  Example: If we have  4 teams and they must each play against each other. That'll be 6 matches total with a team reaching a maximum of 3 wins. What we'll do is make sure that every week everyone will have someone to scrim against.
  
   
• Some internals and items are banned in order to combat unbalance in the current Hawken build and to make the gamemode more interesting. Scanners are banned because of their OP nature, and the internals are banned one: to combat orblording and two: to avoid P2W situations. During the experimental period you'll have the chance to discuss the rules and during the Initial feedback period they will be changed accordingly.
  
  As to whom decided to ban them: well, I did. I've implemented them during UVW, adjusted accordingly and, combined with info from past competitive play and rule-sets (both from NA and EU scrims) formed in what I believe is the best way to be competitive and balanced. I've given you the base set of rules, because you can't start from scratch and expect everything to work. Now that you have that base, feel free to experiment and give feedback.
   
• OBS is free and lightweight, and there are plenty of guides on this very forum. I ask people to record their games as an anti-cheat measure and to not have to rely purely on what people think they saw. For example: 'Oi! this guy is using scanners! He can't use scanners!' What you'll do then is continue to play the match, and afterwards volunteers (including myself) will go through the footage and act accordingly. 

Edited by (KDR) Dr_Freeze001, 27 June 2015 - 04:22 AM.

[CrimsonKaim]

Ima give it a try, looking for a team formular has been handed in.

[talons1337]

Hi, I've signed up (under a different account name) but I'm going back to Sydney on July 14 so I won't be available to play until I'm back in Europe in August or September. Is this okay?

[Dr_Freeze001]

Hi, I've signed up (under a different account name) but I'm going back to Sydney on July 14 so I won't be available to play until I'm back in Europe in August or September. Is this okay?

 

Well put you in as a reserve player and add you to a team. Then, if need be, the team leader will be able to get you in some matches.

[talons1337]

Right, thanks. I've PMed you the account I signed up with.

[GeneralJWJ]

Just a quick check has anyone handed in a team registration form or has there just been individual forms so far? It just seems a little weird that the team thing is still totally empty for me >_>

[Dr_Freeze001]

Alright then, if anyone has any more questions please direct them to (KDR) Batpanda. He should be able to answer everythingyoueverwantedandmore.

 

Cheers, and see you on the 8th.

[Aregon]

Omni is consistently dominant in NA TPG. They also happen to be a driving force behind the organization of the league. I don't think it's an issue at all.

The difference is that Omni do not consist of over half the local community in their area.

[Meraple]

The difference is that Omni do not consist of over half the local community in their area.

Neither does KDR; the clan has quite alot of members, and what's your point about it? As in, could you elaborate?

Instead of tagging it as "weird" and leaving it vaguely at that, could you make a direct statement?

 

I don't see what the problem is, and unless you can actually state what it is, you lack anything substantial to back that specific point up.

 

 

Besides after what I have understood, KDR has trained in this gamemode (and if not everyone, several members has) and knows better what is smart and not so smart to do.

The word "training" is far too strong for my taste.

 

 

4. While challenging players higher than your skill-level is smart, you do not automatically learn through so. Studies have shown that the best way to learn is through a gentle increase, which will give the player a challenge but still not making it just unfair.

Which is why you'd ask for tips, for example in how you play.

 

 

Only included things that I didn't see a reply to, may've missed a couple.

Edited by (KDR) Meraple, 28 June 2015 - 09:17 AM.

[n3onfx]

I think the only thing buggering some people is the "first season of the HAWKEN EU COMP LEAGUE" title and in that context it could be "weird" to see it handled only by one clan and with a gamemode that doesn't shout "competitive league" on first sight as Vdragon said. Maybe more discussion between clans would make something called EU COMP LEAGUE feel more legitimate to more people, through a gamemode and rules that come as less to a surprise to people outside of just one EU clan's internal discussions. Just to give an insight on why some people may feel a bit puzzled or wary.

 

I do like the idea of trying to find game modes other than tdm or ma, even if personally I don't find this proposed mode appealing I'd rather play MA but that's just personal taste. I'm eager to see what games of the mode look like :)

[I2DI]

I really don't care about is that "gamemode" is competitive or not. Firstly, it's FUN. Secondly, it's dynamic and flexible enough not to become tedious over time and provides an ability to use completely different tactics. I.e. good team work = win. Which i guess the main point about the whole competetive things.

Also this consept does not turn the game into mindless TDM.

Basically it's the long story short, don't want to be a part of whining. >.>

Edited by TwoDots (I2DI), 28 June 2015 - 10:29 AM.

[Houruck]

First of all, kudos to Dr_Freeze001 for all his work.
As others already pointed it out before me, our problem is with the game mode.
I love community made metagames (this is why we did Fight Clubs) but I do not think they are the perfect choice for a league or a tournament.

Edit: This is not that important, but I would like to tell you that OBS is indeed free and a great program, but it is far from being lightweight. It is quite demanding and takes resources away from the game.

Edited by Houruck, 29 June 2015 - 12:56 AM.

[DerMax]

Will there be prizes?

[CrimsonKaim]

For everyone ponting out VIP is a bad gamemode for competetive play.

 

Atleast it does not have pages of rules ffs! Scanners and orblord is banned, what else do you want?

 

 

 

EDIT: There seems to be a problem about KDR, the 'uncompetetiveness' of the gamemode and a general refuse of the whole event.

 

Look, I am FakeName, I love competetiveness, especially because I want to taunt on everyone who is below my level, 'cause if I win, I have every right in the world over the loser heheeee, so does the one who pwns me. This is one of my (uncountable) principles.

 

Now, I didn't sign up for TPG once, nor will I ever even think about it. Why? Because of so many rules and restrictions. TPG leage has no importance for me as it is not a representative of Hawken. It is a modified way of playing a game and one can not claim to be the best in Hawken if winning in a TPG match.

 

VIP, however, is a completely new gamemode. No, we can not claim to be good in Hawken if we win a VIP game but that's not the goal in this case.

While VIP was always palyed for fun, noone was giving a damn about winning (and that is something that pisses me off in pub matches).

The competetiveness should (in my understanding) encourage players to not only play for fun, but to have the main goal called "winning".

 

 

While I myself prefare no rules, no matter the current balance situation, VIP has only 2 rules: Banned orblord and Scanners. That's all. How on earth to I see people telling Freeze this is not competetive? The more rules, the less competetive it gets. Or in other words: The more rules, the less your Hawken skills get tested.

As already sated above, VIP is not Hawken but a custom gamemode with the same key elements. Restricting team-builds (mech restrictions) or roles (weapon restrictions) and stuff like that is poor and pathetic. I wouldn't even mind if scanners were allowed. Not many use them because of manners, who would poo in public ... and eat it?

 

 

So let's conclude: This event is a competetive custom gamemode. Telling a gamemode itself is not able to be competetive is wrong.

Plus it only has two rules, which is awesome, still prefare 0 rules tho.

 

 

And for whatever reason KDR should be a problem? I don't give a damn about KDR members. If I face Rozie and Apple in public I am not facing KDR. I am facing Rozie and Apple, noone or nothing else. 

Those who think KDR members are something better (or basically anyone no matter in which clan/group he/she belongs to. Or even better, ANYONE) than yourself, well, you seem to have some kind of social problems. 

 

Example: How would you call it if a team of 4 KDR pppls would win? Team KDR wins? Wrong. You name the names of the palyers. Like Rozie, Apple, Freeze and Bunny have won. 

Why? because the KDR is a clan. And this clan (as many of you already noticed) consist of more than the four mentioned players. Only if everyone in the clan participated (which is impossible), then one can call KDR won. But due to the fact that only four players are allowed per team, KDR will never have any mentionable influence in this gamemode, it is basically non-existent and unimportant for this gamemode. Just as every other clan.

 

 

So conclusion again: Why should it be a problem of clan members want to play with their clan mates? Do you want to restrict that? Then you would take another competetive part out of the mode, decreasing its value.

 

 

 

And one last thing. The main problem is not the lack of competetiveness (?!) nor the grouping of clan members, but rather the incompetence of the teams. I see it coming. One clan is dominating the whole mode because good palyers only team up with good players.

I am no difference, evryone who asks me to team up with me has to have certain skills. No, I will not team up with random Assault pubs with an MMR of 1600. No.

 

 

 

PS: Why would Freeze be in the mood to please individuals? It is an event for the public. In my opinion Freeze should ignore the complaints as this gamemode is not even really finished. As he stated, test phase. What does this mean? No, it does not mean that prizes will be given out to those who win the test phase.

 

Gosh.

Edited by FakeName, 29 June 2015 - 04:36 AM.

[Aregon]

For everyone ponting out VIP is a bad gamemode for competetive play.

 

Atleast it does not have pages of rules ffs! Scanners and orblord is banned, what else do you want?

I trust those who created the gamemode more than those who use it on what it was made for.

[CrimsonKaim]

Remove me from the "looking for team" please, I'm out.

[DisorderlyMechanic]

Anyone looking for a team, or need a player for one? if so send me a message. I'll play in any team whether they win or lose, i don't mind as long as i'm not your reserve player.

[Houruck]

Remove me from the "looking for team" please, I'm out.

Why? :S