314 replies to this topic

[ticklemyiguana]

7 pages!

We're going for the record.

 

https://community.pl...-of-hungarians/

 

edit: 8.

Edited by ticklemyiguana, 28 June 2015 - 04:40 PM.

[WmMoneyFrmMissouri]

That's the problem you haven't just gotten this whole time tickle. I don't need to understand that side of the argument. I know it's wrong. If I've called someone homophobic its because clearly they said something to deserve that. In my country I'm not against gays I'm against what they do to kids - basic summary of one of nepacakas posts. Oh we should be tolerant of his position because he is from a different country? Wtf? No, wrong, we shouldn't be ok with that and should tell him he is wrong. If that gets him down the road to think about why he pissed off a bunch of people and gets him to act differently eventually - great!

There is a great documentary everyone should watch HBO did last year about gays in Russia. A lot of nepacakas rhetoric is discussed in that and should be a must watch for anyone here. That's who you are defending dude. Engage: mega facial cringe.

[Silverfire]

I don't need to understand that side of the argument. I know it's wrong.

 

Funny, that's exactly what the a lot of people on the other side say too.

 

Guess you're not much different than them after all. You could do so much more to separate yourself from the close minded crowd, but I just don't see the effort.

Edited by Silverfire, 28 June 2015 - 05:06 PM.

[JeffMagnum]

Problem,  Jeff. 

 

1.  Your implication is that all LGBTs suffer the same problems, that are very real.  However, i know many people, have a few good friends in that category,  that have no problems at all.  How do they avoid the problems and trials we here about?  Simple, they are decent, normal people who work hard, get along, and are fun to be with.  I"m not saying LGBT's don't have problems.   I'm saying they're of their own making.  

 

2. Again, see 1.  Many LGBT people are great, and have fine lives.   The fact I use quotes is intentional.   It means problems can be avoided.  To say an LGBT activist represents all of that community is like saying Barack Obama or John Boehner represent me.  It's ridiculous. 

 

3. Far right tactic?   Pay attention to age of consent in other countries, and how often we refer to laws in other countries in establishing precedent in our own legislative process... when it suits their purpose.  Also,  in regards to Pedophilila,  the   B4U-ACT Baltimore conference had Dr. Fred Berlin of Johns Hopkins University address the conference, expressing support for organizations suich as B4U-ACT and NAMBLA.   Call me closed minded, but if anyone thinks these organizations have worthwhile "Mission statements",   Well,  we'll agree to disagree. 

 

4.  Do you run a business?  What background checks do you do?  Obviously you look for the most qualified canidates, with the strongest skillsets.  And if you don't find them, or have to choose between employess of limited experience or skillsets,  what's your procedure? How do you evaluate risk? Productivity?  What size city are you in? Pal, unless you run a business in this demographic,  You have no idea what your talking about.  I'm a business owner in an environment that sees high turnover in different occupations, so I deal with this,  employee complaints, schedules, etc. on a regular basis.  How many employees do you have, or manage?  What are the problems that the ones you let go have?  

 

5.  Again, the "problems".  I'm still waiting to see them.  We see a lot of names getting tossed around, but I've yet to see a real LGBT problem here.  

Yes,  I DO agree.   Normal is a loaded term.   I'll clarify.   Gamers who want to game and play Hawken.  Call me weird,  but when I chat with my team in Europe,  I don't bother asking them about the weather,  or what Angela Merkel is up to.  ;)   

 

So,  what points are bigoted? 

 

Bigot.  Noun. A person who is intolerant towards a person holding different opinions.  

 

If anyone is fitting that description here,  it's not me.  I'm here to game.  I'm fine with gay gamers.  I'm fine with Gay activitsts.   I just think if we're going to game, let's game.  And Notice I haven't called anyone a name,  or insulted anyone directly here, just pointed out a few general observations. 

 

1/2. The fact that some particular friends of yours don't (from your point of view, at least) have any issues due to their statuses as GSMs doesn't negate the fact that many other non-cishet people have to deal with lots of fuzzy bunny simply because they have the audacity to exist. I'm not sure how you can even say that people who belong to oppressed groups bring all their issues upon themselves, because that's just astoundingly wrong and ignorant of not only basic sociology but also the entirety of recorded history. There's honestly no rebuttal to this that I can make--you're not going to understand the concepts I'd bring up, and I don't want to spend 30 minutes explaining each idea. I was going to talk about intersectionalism and how someone can belong to an oppressed group while being privileged on other axes, but there is no chance whatsoever of that getting anywhere. At least read the fuzzy bunnyng Wikipedia article on discrimination or something so we can attempt to have a conversation.

 

3. If you don't understand the concept of consent and why gay marriage is fundamentally different from child marriage or animal marriage, I'm not sure how we're going to discuss this either. Also, fringe groups of pedophiles/pedophile sympathizers have approximately zero influence on any branch of the US government. 

 

4. You realize you just explicitly admitted to illegally discriminating based on race in your hiring process? "All the black people I've seen are unreliable and want to sue me for no reason so I don't hire them" I wonder why that would make anyone litigious?? lmao

 

5. You could spend literally 15 seconds on Google and find a huge amount of information on relevant issues. I'm not going to hold your hand and give you a significantly dumbed-down Social Issues 101 class unless you intend on paying me by the hour.

 

As to which of your points are bigoted, look no further than the rest of your post to find out.

Edited by JeffMagnum, 28 June 2015 - 05:26 PM.

[DieselCat]

1/2. The fact that some particular friends of yours don't (from your point of view, at least) have any issues due to their statuses as GSMs doesn't negate the fact that many other non-cishet people have to deal with lots of fuzzy bunny simply because they have the audacity to exist. I'm not sure how you can even say that people who belong to oppressed groups bring all their issues upon themselves, because that's just astoundingly wrong and ignorant of not only basic sociology but also the entirety of recorded history. There's honestly no rebuttal to this that I can make--you're not going to understand the concepts I'd bring up, and I don't want to spend 30 minutes explaining each idea. I was going to talk about intersectionalism and how someone can belong to an oppressed group while being privileged on other axes, but there is no chance whatsoever of that getting anywhere. At least read the fuzzy bunnyng Wikipedia article on discrimination or something so we can attempt to have a conversation.

 

3. If you don't understand the concept of consent and why gay marriage is fundamentally different from child marriage or animal marriage, I'm not sure how we're going to discuss this either. Also, fringe groups of pedophiles/pedophile sympathizers have approximately zero influence on any branch of the US government. 

 

4. You realize you just explicitly admitted to illegally discriminating based on race in your hiring process? "All the black people I've seen are unreliable and want to sue me for no reason so I don't hire them" I wonder why that would make anyone litigious?? lmao

 

5. You could spend literally 15 seconds on Google and find a huge amount of information on relevant issues. I'm not going to hold your hand and give you a significantly dumbed-down Social Issues 101 class unless you intend on paying me by the hour.

 

As to which of your points are bigoted, look no further than the rest of your post to find out.

 

Big thumbs up Jeff !.....

 

*+

[Pumapaw]

humm?

 

You humans have some serious issues to discuss.

 

But pushing gay in a kids video game is not good. Kids need time to determine who and what they are. So that being said goodbye Hawken. I will not support in any way a push to persuade those who are sexually immature with something that can be life changing.

Edited by Pumapaw, 28 June 2015 - 05:47 PM.

[DieselCat]

I don't understand why there has to be so much hate in the world. This would be a much better place if everyone would just love and respect one another.

 

In the infamous words of R.K. "Can't we just all get along ?"

 

_____________________________________________________________

 

http://steamcommunit...s/?id=470840816

 

#lovewins

 

my Cupcake !

 

*+

[Pumapaw]

I don't understand why there has to be so much hate in the world. This would be a much better place if everyone would just love and respect one another.

 

This has nothing to do with hate this is about pushing a sexual agenda to children. I do not feel that is correct in any way. You have people of all age ranges playing this game. As I said Young should be given the time to choose their sexual identity.  It should not be done by peer pressure.

Edited by Pumapaw, 28 June 2015 - 05:57 PM.

[JeffMagnum]

why am I doing this to myself

[JeffMagnum]

humm?

 

You humans have some serious issues to discuss.

 

But pushing gay in a kids video game is not good. Kids need time to determine who and what they are. So that being said goodbye Hawken. I will not support in any way a push to persuade those who are sexually immature with something that can be life changing.

 

This has nothing to do with hate this is about pushing a sexual agenda to children. I do not feel that is correct in any way. You have people of all age ranges playing this game. As I said Young should be given the time to choose their sexual identity.  It should not be done by peer pressure.

 

Except that's not how sexual orientation works, so

Edited by JeffMagnum, 28 June 2015 - 06:03 PM.

[cavefishes]

humm?

 

You humans have some serious issues to discuss.

 

But pushing gay in a kids video game is not good. Kids need time to determine who and what they are. So that being said goodbye Hawken. I will not support in any way a push to persuade those who are sexually immature with something that can be life changing.

 

 

I don't understand why there has to be so much hate in the world. This would be a much better place if everyone would just love and respect one another.

 

This has nothing to do with hate this is about pushing a sexual agenda to children. I do not feel that is correct in any way. You have people of all age ranges playing this game. As I said Young should be given the time to choose their sexual identity.  It should not be done by peer pressure.

 

What? You don't get "turned gay" if you see a rainbow or someone tells you people of different sexual orientation are equal.

 

There is no science to back up the idea that "gay propaganda" has a significant influence on someone's sexual orientation. In fact, the APA states that 

 

"Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social, and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles; most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation." (link)

 

The recent hubub about "gay propaganda" and agenda pushing is due to the recent Russian LGBT Propaganda Law, which drew a large amount of criticism worldwide for being vague and more about prohibiting lifestyles than "protecting the children." 

[n3onfx]

 

This has nothing to do with hate this is about pushing a sexual agenda to children. I do not feel that is correct in any way. You have people of all age ranges playing this game. As I said Young should be given the time to choose their sexual identity.  It should not be done by peer pressure.

 

Making it so gay people can marry like everybody else is "pushing a sexual agenda to children"? wat?

 

I'm honestly curious on how you can get from the fact that gays are now allowed to marry in America to "pushing a sexual agenda on children", I'd like to hear the reasoning behind it.

[Pumapaw]

Believe what you want. It is not appropriate to even have this matter of sexual desires posted in a kids game.

Edited by Pumapaw, 28 June 2015 - 06:31 PM.

[ticklemyiguana]

Believe what you want. It is not appropriate to even have this matter of sexual desires posted in a kids game.

As I've said before, it's no one's problem but your own if you can't think about two people getting married without thinking of them having sex.

 

Kids sure as hell don't think that way.

[Digits]

horray! rainbow badge!

 

also, it's 530 am here, and monday. thank god we have time zones

Edited by Digits, 28 June 2015 - 07:26 PM.

[Anichkov3]

Hello people! I am too lazy to re-read all the messages. But I have one question. How do the laws of a country about sexual orientation are associated with the game??? In my humble opinion this topic is offtopic. I understand that the developers are very tolerant. You will give the stamp of the man that he can login in the game - in my opinion is not very associated with the game. In my humble opinion this topic is offtopic in the section General discussion. 

[Nov8tr]

I will post what I've already posted some time ago in another thread..........

 

"I'm 61 and straight. A lot of my generation is prejudiced. I am not. I don't care who you LOVE. That is YOUR personal choice. I don't care what color you are. Color is what kids do with crayons. I don't care what "race" you are. There is only one race on Earth, HUMAN. I judge a person by their actions. I commend you for having the guts to stand up for what you believe in. Maybe someday in the future, none of this will matter to anyone. We can hope. Good luck with your Clan and your Mumble channel."

 

You don't make people gay. You don't decide to "become" gay. Your sexual orientation is decided at birth, not 10, 12, 15 or 20. You don't decide to "become" straight. You can't talk someone into becoming anything other than what they are. Kids are not stupid today. They know, are aware of and learn more than most people give them credit for. I am surprised by much of what I've read here and what was posted here. People say we are civilized now, but it takes so little to strip that thin layer of veneer away. Then hated flourishes. Vitriol flows freely from ordinarily nice people. I apologize for not  posting sooner but I seriously was afraid someone would take offense in the heat of the moment. I've seen a lot of things here over the years. I've seen some pretty bad blow ups. But nothing like this. I am saddened by this. I can  only hope this does not ruin many of the friendships I've made here. Please think before posting, it's hard to take something back said in anger after the fact. I am fine with the Supreme Courts decision. It is a step in the right direction. Good luck and take care to all of you.

[WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW]

This has nothing to do with hate this is about pushing a sexual agenda to children. I do not feel that is correct in any way. You have people of all age ranges playing this game. As I said Young should be given the time to choose their sexual identity.  It should not be done by peer pressure.

 

This is legitimately garbage. Sorry. Peer pressure? Do you understand how peer pressure works and how it actually interacts in reality with queer kids (which, omg, is a thing. also, dropping the f4x: str8 people give birth to them :00000 ) and kids who are straight? Have you ever been a kid who is not straight and/or cisgender?

 

The very conceptualization of sexual orientation as a "adult" thing is completely problematic because being straight is idolized, put on a pedestal, and standardized on an everyday basis. There is all this talk about sexual orientation being an "adult" thing but the fact of the matter is that sexual orientation is implicated on an everyday basis on nearly every level of Western society through normalization of heterosexuality and being cisgender. Which in turn implicates gender identity of course. (Somehow, I have the feeling you would also assert that gender identity is also an "adult" topic, so I preempted that.)

 

I can assure everyone that people who think gay propaganda is a thing haven't taken the step of thought to wonder if straight propaganda is a thing and if it permeates society. And, AFAIK, no country or even locale on Earth presents a non-biased contextual factors in their environment.

 

---

 

As a separate matter: For those arguing that this has nothing to do with the game and should hence be in the Off Topic forum (or not posted at all), please take another look at OP and double-check that OP does in fact relate to the game by providing a discount on select items and providing Hawken-forum-related content in parallel and intersection to the incident of the SC decision. It is clear that this topic should be in General Discussion.

 

I'm sorry for LadyTiggs who has to deal with this mess. My personal thoughts are not to shy from the flame and struggle with it in solidarity with the gay community and the idea of the celebration of equality.

 

---

 

On the subject of problems that the LGBTQ community have to face (because some of us are /that/ ignorant to have no idea): here is a short list of some problems that legality of gay marriage will resolve.

 

(1) Tax benefits of marriage now cover gay couples

(2) Tax filing for gay couples will now likely be easier

(3) Hospitals will now have to provide the individual partners in a marriage visiting rights to each other. (It is a frequent occurrence in some places to prevent the visit of a loved one i.e. family i.e. spouse)

(4) Normalization (note: NOT "convert everyone to le gay") of homosexuality so as to prevent and defuse homophobia in the present and future

 

Note how straight couples already benefit from privileges 1 to 3. There are almost certainly other issues I haven't listed. These are the ones off the top of my head. Go Google or Bing or Yahoo the rest.

 

Why do I even have to enumerate these? If you are /so/ ignorant so as not to have any clue, please simply refrain from posting and wasting all of our time. Thanks. (Unless of course the reader is a pile of turd, in which case, all of these problems are in fact not problems at all but great things because the gay people should not have any rights or privileges at all :)))))

[LEmental]

humm?

 

You humans have some serious issues to discuss.

 

But pushing gay in a kids video game is not good. Kids need time to determine who and what they are. So that being said goodbye Hawken. I will not support in any way a push to persuade those who are sexually immature with something that can be life changing.

They in no way pushed gay onto people.  They did show their support that any human above the age of consent can marry any other human above the age of consent in the United States.

 

Hawken is rated T for teens.  Most LGBT people find out in their teen years.  No propaganda can turn someone gay just like no propaganda can turn someone heterosexual.  They just are.

 

 

 

I don't understand why there has to be so much hate in the world. This would be a much better place if everyone would just love and respect one another.

 

This has nothing to do with hate this is about pushing a sexual agenda to children. I do not feel that is correct in any way. You have people of all age ranges playing this game. As I said Young should be given the time to choose their sexual identity.  It should not be done by peer pressure.

How is this peer pressure?

 

 

Believe what you want. It is not appropriate to even have this matter of sexual desires posted in a kids game.

Marriage does not equal sex.  Marriage is a legal contract between two people to share aspects of their life.  Everything else is what the parties want it to mean.

 

I think it's important for public entities to show that they support equality.  They can only gain more than they lose by doing so.  The world is headed towards a more tolerant place.  First was the women's movement, then the black movement and now the gay movement.  I hope everyone will be on board to support and love humans.

Edited by LEmental, 28 June 2015 - 11:58 PM.

[CraftyDus]

An effective way to enlighten someone subscribing to the premise that people are "persuaded to become gay" is to ask when/how they were "persuaded to become straight". I've seen epiphanies unfold before my eyes along this vein.

[WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW]

Let me productively poop on the thread: http://thinkprogress...nder-detention/

 

Summary: LGBTQ activist interjects on President Obama's speech due to concern for the treatment of LGBTQ immigrants and refugees by the USA government, including denial of medical care, denial of due process, denial to a safe environment (safe jail or otherwise). Activist is hushed away, to be swept under the rug like so many other issues are, including all of the issues that either implicate or are implicated by gay marriage.

 

Aside: my personal assertion is that focusing on the negatives consistently and frequently is an effective way to induce depression or is a symptom of depression.

 

Stay sane my friends.

[CraftyDus]

Let me productively poop on the thread: http://thinkprogress...nder-detention/

 

Summary: LGBTQ activist interjects on President Obama's speech due to concern for the treatment of LGBTQ immigrants and refugees by the USA government, including denial of medical care, denial of due process, denial to a safe environment (safe jail or otherwise). Activist is hushed away, to be swept under the rug like so many other issues are, including all of the issues that either implicate or are implicated by gay marriage.

 

Aside: my personal assertion is that focusing on the negatives consistently and frequently is an effective way to induce depression or is a symptom of depression.

 

Stay sane my friends.

 

I like how the President reminded the heckler that she was in his house, at a celebration of the civil rights decision in support of gay marriage.

While activism takes courage, shouting over the host of a celebration in his home is straight up belligerent.

 

 

*edit

 

you judge for yourself, here's a video of the exchange

 

Edited by Crafty, 29 June 2015 - 02:18 AM.

[LEmental]

The white house is technically owned by United States of America, aka the American people.

 

Also, here is another take on the incident

Edited by LEmental, 29 June 2015 - 03:44 AM.

[reVelske]

There are time and place for everything, interrupting the main man in the middle of his speech there was certainly not the time or place for it, however frustrating it is to get your voice heard sometimes.

 

And this thread is certainly not the place for all these discussions.

[CraftyDus]

The white house is technically owned by United States of America, aka the American people.

 

Also, here is another take on the incident

 

My house is technically owned by the Wells Fargo Mortgage Bank.

But if you are having difficulty behaving when you are my guest in it, I'm going to show you the door.

 

She's wasn't going to get kicked out until she refused the opportunity the President patiently afforded her to temper her behavior.

She was not escorted away because of her message, or because she was trans, but because she was behaving badly.

 

The bummer to me is that she squandered the huge opportunity to bring up her message in polite conversation later at the party she had been invited to with the President at his house.

 

The irony is the celebration event was for the exact same reason as ours here in Hawken. A pro LGBTQ celebration.

Heckling the President for any number of reasons is a bit of a waste of everybodies time and energy.

Not a very bright idea to win hearts and minds to your cause.

[SandSpider2]

There is only one constant in the universe and that is change.  40 years ago it would have been inconceivable for a gay couple to get married in the UK, Ireland or America.  Now it is law.  40 years from now it will be law in many other countries.

Change can be quick or it can take time. 40 years ago a lot of people in the three counties listed above thought in a similar way to those people in Russia and some of the surrounding countries, but in 40 years time things will have changed.

It is inevitable. 

[Elite_is_salty]

7 pages!

 

 

WRONG

[SandSpider2]

We'll see.

[BIsmuthZornisse]

The very conceptualization of sexual orientation as a "adult" thing is completely problematic because being straight is idolized, put on a pedestal, and standardized on an everyday basis. There is all this talk about sexual orientation being an "adult" thing but the fact of the matter is that sexual orientation is implicated on an everyday basis on nearly every level of Western society through normalization of heterosexuality and being cisgender. Which in turn implicates gender identity of course. (Somehow, I have the feeling you would also assert that gender identity is also an "adult" topic, so I preempted that.)

you really don't think the "idolization" comes from the fact that male-female relationships can produce children?

You do know that reproduction is the key to a species' continued existence, right?

Can you really not see why "straight" relationships would be favorable? Not that i'd want to prosecute same-sex relationships, but allowing those is no reason to forget basic biology.

 

 

I can assure everyone that people who think gay propaganda is a thing haven't taken the step of thought to wonder if straight propaganda is a thing and if it permeates society. And, AFAIK, no country or even locale on Earth presents a non-biased contextual factors in their environment.

You seem to forget that non-human lifeforms also exist on this planet. They have not been ALL wiped out by humans yet.

 

Also, re: gay not being a choice

i can understand genetics predisposing someone one way or the other, but saying humans can't choose because they're "born that way" implies that every choice you make could be predetermined by "genetics". you have to acknowledge "experience", too.

 

there's also this i just found (spoilered due to profanity an):

Spoiler

<iframe width="640" height="390" src="https://www.youtube....ed/2h5pI7KASjU"frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

As I've said before, it's no one's problem but your own if you can't think about two people getting married without thinking of them having sex.

 

Kids sure as hell don't think that way.

 

You're seriously faulting someone for associating "sexual orientation" with "sexual intercourse"?
Even children can associate these with eachother, it ain't arcane sorcery.

[Hyginos]

This thread is an outrage!

 

 

Lessthan 3 was supposed to be a valentine's day exclusive! What next, selling vanguard initiative stuff again? Advocating nuclear war?  Madness I say.

[JeffMagnum]

you really don't think the "idolization" comes from the fact that male-female relationships can produce children?
You do know that reproduction is the key to a species' continued existence, right?
Can you really not see why "straight" relationships would be favorable? Not that i'd want to prosecute same-sex relationships, but allowing those is no reason to forget basic biology.

Yeah look at all these species that went extinct from being too gay

https://en.wikipedia...vior_in_animals

[cavefishes]

Yeah look at all these species that went extinct from being too gay

https://en.wikipedia...vior_in_animals

Very true, the amount of homosexual human relationships isn't nearly enough to even put a dent in our population. Half the world isn't going to wake up one day and decide they don't want to have sex with anyone of the opposite gender. Being straight is always going to be the norm by a wide margin, but that doesn't mean we have to demonize and put down people who aren't. All humans deserve equal respect and treatment despite race, gender, sexual orientation, and so on.

 

Some key animals listed on that page include multiple species of dolphins and primates. Both very intelligent, highly developed social mammals, and they're currently thriving despite banging each other in tons of wacky combinations.  We're no different.

[Nept]

Very true, the amount of homosexual human relationships isn't nearly enough to even put a dent in our population.

 

We have waaay too many people anyway.  90% of the population could go gay, for all I care.

[CraftyDus]

We have waaay too many people anyway.  90% of the population could go gay, for all I care.

 

become the change you want to see in the world- Yoda

[LadyTiggs]

We appreciate all constructive views that were posted in this thread. We're all allowed our opinions and the right to agree or disagree with others. Some of you took that beyond the allowed limits and received time outs and/or warnings for doing so.  To those that have stated my post was against our forum rules, the rules and guidelines are for you (the players and forum participants), and while freedom of speech does exist outside of the forums, it does not exist on our forums. 

 

I'm now locking this thread since the login event is over and as was stated in the original post Reloaded has always supported the diversity of our players and employees. #lovewins.