314 replies to this topic

[JeffMagnum]

Same with Canada, although there have been recent attempts to overturn those restrictions. Last time I was on a donor list, they specifically asked whether I had - at any point - slept with men, or whether any of my female partners had slept with men who had slept with men.

*Edit* Interestingly, they didn't ask whether any of my female partners had slept with women.

Yeah, it's still a really common restriction worldwide.

https://en.wikipedia...nor_controversy
Under current situation

[Elite_is_salty]

Long lives dustin.

Seriously, man's gold.

[EM1O]

Tiggs:

[didn't feel like drudging through 3 more pages of posts, so disregard, if needed]

 

Put the Forum "Happy", Love, etc, badge in the cosmetics selections for the universal availability mode, with description of it's meaning, and the advisory that selecting it will make it appear with your Forums login, and make it a free purchase. Just give the badge to those that want it for a Limited Time availability.

I'm an electirician, not a geek, so if this sounds ridiculously improbable code-wise, do the same sort of thing HERE, instead, if possible.

If you like it/want it/get it. If not, keep on truckin'.

 

Problem solved.

[JeffMagnum]

And tickle, I get your point re: nepa not being used to the views held here, but honestly something like this was going to happen sooner or later if he regularly uses international message boards or social media or whatever. It was possibly a bit harsh, sure, but I still think it was for the best if he learned anything. At the very least, I doubt similar posts will come up from him again on these forums in particular.

[CraftyDus]

Rofl, Crafy is kind of like the internet equivalent of your racist grandparents.

 

Don't equivocate me with racists,  douchecanoe

 

he still believes that "nerdy vitriol" not only facilitates online gaming, but is an inalienable right and requisite.

 

Calling me a racist  is vitriol, to be sure.

But not the cute nerdy game discussion kind we here at the community hawken forums are accustomed to tolerating, perhaps even finding entertaining.

It's just assinine to characterize my mentioning of our existing cultural behavior in community hawken forums as something I'm defending as "an inalienable right and requisite".

You're pretty off the mark in general.

 

 

While ignoring the fact that the competitive gaming of his time was founded on 13 year olds who, on top of various angsty tween behavioral issues, believed their gaming skills made them the second coming of Jesus.

 

Speaking of behavioral issues...like calling me racist, wtf?

I can't believe you went there.

 

The only competetive gaming of your (short) time was founded by me.

 

And TPG itself was founded by former admins from Cyber Athletic League (CAL) all 20 something adults in 2002.

 

You have no idea what these people believed about their gaming skills that you have never met.

 

We're all very happy about the rights for gays to marry.

And as I've said countless times in this very thread, but has been deleted with everything else, most of us support our LGBTQ hawken community members.

 

But between more than half of this thread being deleted and your excitement to make me out to be something I am not, you haven't the first clue.

Edited by Crafty, 27 June 2015 - 05:25 PM.

[JeffMagnum]

also Tiggs pls respond to my pm

[Massive_Assailant_Stingray]

Didn't call you a racist. I'm sorry you construed it as such, and I'm sorry to have offended you.

[EM1O]

this was started as a fun happy happy joy joy thing.

for crapsakes, people. quit the BS. if you don't like the flavor of Scots Whiskey, go get a bottle of Jack Daniels. But don't dump all over the burnt barrels of Scotland simply because you like charred Tennessee mountain oak instead.

cripes.

Edited by em1o, 27 June 2015 - 05:40 PM.

[Nightfirebolt]

This is me glancing at this thread:

 

[Nept]

I think the discussions on this thread have been interesting and worthwhile.  Perhaps Tiggs was expecting ubiquitous jubilation, but it's not surprising to see dissent.  We cannot pretend that the United States populace - let alone the rest of the world - entirely supports gay marriage.  Over 70% of American citizens identify as Christian, and the religious right has generated most of the opposition against homosexuality (think about that the next time someone spouts "live and let live" or "they're not hurting you" lines re: religious/cultural relativism).  There's bound to be overlap.  As opinions about and within religions shift, prejudice will recede; it's going to take awhile, though, and America's nowhere near that end goal.

 

I would prefer to see minimal moderation within this thread, and I think it's a shame that any occurred in the first place.  I also think Tiggs naive if she's surprised by some of the responses.  People care deeply about these topics, and their initial posts - should they disagree with the decision - are typically angry and rude.  Group associations - be they with religions, countries, races, or sports teams - represent critical components of self-identity.  When the associations are threatened - for example, by a ruling that runs against a religion's values - the individuals are threatened by proxy.  And make no mistake: gay marriage in the United States is inextricably tied to politics and religion.  In creating this thread, Tiggs broke forum rules - rule 1.A), no less.

 

On these points, I agree with Crafty.  Where I disagree with both Crafty and the forum rules is on the subject of taboo topics.  Religion and politics are important topics, and they should be discussed.  Regularly.  Limit them to off topic if you're concerned that their discussion will derail game-related subjects.  As I stated earlier, Hawken's close-knit community affords us an opportunity to discuss these topics with more tolerance and perseverance than the internet typically affords. We're far more likely to spend time attempting to understand and converse with people we already know and like; and we're far less likely to simply slander them into the ground. There will be initial insults, yes, and people might get a bit heated, but it'll die down as people sink into discussion.  Moderate the worst of it and the community will self-moderate the rest.

 

Please don't perpetuate a culture of avoidance.

 

Regardless, I am glad that Tiggs made this thread, and I hope she keeps to her proposed moderation style:

 

At this point if you don't like it, that's fine you're allowed your opinion, just keep it civil, under control, on topic and rated G. 

Edited by Nept, 28 June 2015 - 06:34 AM.

[CraftyDus]

 

I think the discussions on this thread have been interesting and worthwhile.  Perhaps Tiggs was expecting ubiquitous jubilation, but it's not surprising to see dissent.  We cannot pretend that the United States populace - let alone the rest of the world - entirely supports gay marriage.  Over 70% of American citizens identify as Christian, and the religious right has generated most of the opposition against homosexuality (think about that the next time someone spouts "live and let live" or "they're not hurting you" lines re: religious/cultural relativism).  There's bound to be overlap.  As opinions about and within religions shift, prejudice will recede; it's going to take awhile, though, and America's nowhere near that end goal.

 

I would prefer to see minimal moderation within this thread, and I think it's a shame that any occurred in the first place.  I also think Tiggs naive if she's surprised by some of the responses.  People care deeply about these topics, and their initial posts - should they disagree with the decision - are typically angry and rude.  Group associations - be they with religions, countries, races, or sports teams - represent critical components of self-identity.  When the associations are threatened - for example, by a ruling that runs against a religion's values - the individuals are threatened by proxy.  And make no mistake: gay marriage in the United States is inextricably tied to politics and religion.  In creating this thread, Tiggs broke forum rules - rule 1.A), no less.

 

On these points, I agree with Crafty.  Where I disagree with both Crafty and the forum rules is on the subject of taboo topics.  Religion and politics are important topics, and they should be discussed.  Regularly.  Limit them to off topic if you're concerned that their discussion will derail game-related subjects.  As I stated earlier, Hawken's close-knit community affords us an opportunity to discuss these topics with more tolerance and perseverance than the internet typically affords. We're far more likely to spend time attempting to understand and converse with people we already know and like; and we're far less likely to simply slander them into the ground. There will initial insults, yes, and people might get a bit heated, but it'll die down as people sink into discussion � moderate the worst of it and the community will self-moderate the rest.

 

I don't enjoy this culture of avoidance.

 

Regardless, I am glad that Tiggs made this thread, and I hope she keeps to her proposed moderation style:

 

 

What initially struck me as bizarre (I been in this thread for like 12 hours now) was some newer members delusionally white-knighting older members who although advocates for our lgbtq community members and reasonable people, cautioned that idiocy was imminent and several suggested a lock then.

 

Then sure enough it got really stupid, and the cycle of outrage, offense, and self-righteousness ebbed and flowed all day long.

Nothing wrong with civil exchange over cultural events, but nobody's talking about hawken while this bs raged on.

Edited by Crafty, 27 June 2015 - 06:36 PM.

[System64]

Oh jeez, looks like Tiggs needs to delete some posts/pages again.

Edited by ??�?�؃??, 27 June 2015 - 06:37 PM.

[LeoTek]

It's not that bad honestly,

a few days out of the entire year dedicated to something - It does not effect your gameplay in-game in any way shape or forum.

[Gabbahead]

Jesus! World is going crazy!

Homosexuals are trolling naturals and calls their NOT NORMAL and DEFECTIVE...
Hey, "rainbow people", please tell me - why you do so active propaganda of your sexual preferences?
If man natural, he don't need to manifestate it, he don't need to organize different parades and demonstrations. He just live his own life.
And what you do? You are screaming all around the world about your homosexuality... Why?

-----------------------------------------------------------
Wake up, Cthulhu, and punish sinners!

Edited by Gabbahead, 27 June 2015 - 06:53 PM.

[hoghead]

.

Edited by hoghead, 27 June 2015 - 07:24 PM.

[Nept]

If man natural, he don't need to manifestate it, he don't need to organize different parades and demonstrations. He just live his own life.
And what you do? You are screaming all around the world about your homosexuality... Why?

-----------------------------------------------------------
Wake up, Cthulhu, and punish sinners!

 

1) *Naturalistic fallacy (argumentum ad naturam)

2) Heterosexuals have organized and engaged in parades and demonstrations for pretty much ever.  Irrelevant.

3) People "are screaming all around the world about [their] homosexuality" because they're denied basic human rights "all around the world" because of their sexual preferences.  People do the same about racism and sexism.  It's a good and necessary thing.

 

See? Sorted.  Minimal moderation necessary, even for the worst posts.

 

*Trigger warning for ash.

Edited by Nept, 27 June 2015 - 07:06 PM.

[JeffMagnum]

I'm guessing (hoping?) they're just trolling. I really want to be right here.

[DieselCat]

1) *Naturalistic fallacy (argumentum ad naturam)

2) Heterosexuals have organized and engaged in parades and demonstrations for pretty much ever.  Irrelevant.

3) People "are screaming all around the world about [their] homosexuality" because they're denied basic human rights "all around the world" because of their sexual preferences.  People do the same about racism and sexism.  It's a good and necessary thing.

 

See? Sorted.  Minimal moderation necessary, even for the worst posts.

 

*Trigger warning for ash.

 

 

Ran out of likes.....

 

+1 for Nept's reply.

 

*+

[MisterWekonu]

I for one find it glorious and beautiful that the Devs of any game can take the time to do something, regardless how little, to show support of anything. Cheers on that!

Those complaining that this isn't the "place" for this: A. It's something applying to people nation-wide. B. I understand freedom of speech, the Devs have it and so do you, but If it bothers you, quit clicking on and reading posts about it (they won't stop any time soon) and play the game itself. Gaming is a community thing, so was this event. It's all about the people. If you can't put up with a certain "kind" of them, or topic, maybe you shouldn't be multiplayer gaming at all....

Game on and live free and content, folks. :)

[LEmental]

Ran out of likes.....

 

+1 for Nept's reply.

 

*+

Me too.

 

I just want to say that I'm glad that there are strong allies of LGBT within the Hawken community.  I also want to thank Tiggs for doing what she feels is right as one of the prominent faces of Reloaded (even if it's controversial).

[CraftyDus]

I for one find it glorious and beautiful that the Devs of any game can take the time to do something, regardless how little, to show support of anything. Cheers on that!

Those complaining that this isn't the "place" for this: A. It's something applying to people nation-wide. B. I understand freedom of speech, the Devs have it and so do you, but If it bothers you, quit clicking on and reading posts about it (they won't stop any time soon) and play the game itself. Gaming is a community thing, so was this event. It's all about the people. If you can't put up with a certain "kind" of them, or topic, maybe you shouldn't be multiplayer gaming at all....

Game on and live free and content, folks. :)

 

Grats on your 47th hawken kill and thanks for all your insight into our community!

[CraftyDus]

Ran out of likes.....

 

+1 for Nept's reply.

 

*+

 

On both the accounts you were using in this thread?

Might be time to make a third, pretend that's different person too. Call it bubba.

[LEmental]

The only competetive gaming of your (short) time was founded by me.

 

And TPG itself was founded by former admins from Cyber Athletic League (CAL) all 20 something adults in 2002.

 

You have no idea what these people believed about their gaming skills that you have never met.

 

Grats on your 47th hawken kill and thanks for all your insight into our community!

Edited by LEmental, 27 June 2015 - 08:57 PM.

[WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW]

this is social "justice" cultists in a nutshell.

you need to do some massive amounts of reading lol. most of the people posting do. "muh videya gam foram."

"muh racism" (ofc picture is about a black man behind a gay rights parade as if there is some sort of "linear social justice dimension" of measurement, or like "WELL DUH UR A HYPOCRITE FOR CLEARLY NOT CARING ABOUT RACISM OR CLASS", probably from someone who doesn't even read into the issue(s) at hand)

"omg hash-tag deathwins" (because ofc people should not have the right to take their own life. terminally ill? not allowed. cuz u dont want to be a potato? nop. your life belongs to the state and more importantly the corporations that make money off of you and your loved ones. or worse.)

"omg hash-tag women shouldnt have control over whether they have babby or not" (as if this is not influenced at all by historical prejudice and social conditions that typically treated women as property or incompetent at politics or logic or science or math)

"omg morals and 'feelings' are invalid because everyone feels them" (don't worry, I also advocate for free education at all levels :) there are also many reading materials to show why this sort of rhetoric is meaningless and really only serves to uphold existing standards. sort of like how doing nothing or trying to ignore bullying as a bystander while witnessing the act of bullying is paramount to support of the bully.)

arrrgh it's so frustrating sifting through this fuzzy bunny. THank you to LE, Amid, Jeff, and others for not being steaming turds who aren't self-interested fuzzy bunnys.

don't worry Elite, come the time of Revolution™ the capitalists will be overthrown and the working people will have control over their own labour, and parasitic tourist industries hopefully won't destroy local market conditions and flow. (jk, sorry that happened.)

[CraftyDus]

you need to do some massive amounts of reading lol. most of the people posting do. "muh videya gam foram."

"muh racism" (ofc picture is about a black man behind a gay rights parade as if there is some sort of "linear social justice dimension" of measurement, or like "WELL DUH UR A HYPOCRITE FOR CLEARLY NOT CARING ABOUT RACISM OR CLASS", probably from someone who doesn't even read into the issue(s) at hand)

"omg hash-tag deathwins" (because ofc people should not have the right to take their own life. terminally ill? not allowed. cuz u dont want to be a potato? nop. your life belongs to the state and more importantly the corporations that make money off of you and your loved ones. or worse.)

"omg hash-tag women shouldnt have control over whether they have babby or not" (as if this is not influenced at all by historical prejudice and social conditions that typically treated women as property or incompetent at politics or logic or science or math)

"omg morals and 'feelings' are invalid because everyone feels them" (don't worry, I also advocate for free education at all levels :) there are also many reading materials to show why this sort of rhetoric is meaningless and really only serves to uphold existing standards. sort of like how doing nothing or trying to ignore bullying as a bystander while witnessing the act of bullying is paramount to support of the bully.)

arrrgh it's so frustrating sifting through this fuzzy bunny. THank you to LE, Amid, Jeff, and others for not being steaming turds who aren't self-interested fuzzy bunnys.

don't worry Elite, come the time of Revolution™ the capitalists will be overthrown and the working people will have control over their own labour, and parasitic tourist industries hopefully won't destroy local market conditions and flow. (jk, sorry that happened.)

 

 

Well first off you wouldn't believe how much is missing here, you'll never know.

But way more than was left here, some for very good reasons, some in collateral damage.

 

Second if my suggesting we have other events in Hawken for notable landmark supreme court decisons seems to you like I'd be pro-life or anti-assisted suicide, you've lost the plot completely or may need a bit more time to understand that post.

 

Supreme court decisions, you see, are often moments when great wrongs are righted such as the one on gay marriage this week.

 

The right to choose, the right to die, and the right to free speech in those other important landmark supreme court decisions are also representative of great injustices settled for a great multitude of Americans and some notable disenfranchised minorities such as women, the terminally ill, and fat paraplegic pornographers. My heart goes out to all of them.

 

All these events as worthy of our respect and attention as the one this week.

 

Again it's important that you understand the crazy level of nastiness some of these posts rose to today when I assure you a good bunch of decent concerned "allies" of lgbtq did their level best to try to implore avoiding it before it arrived.

They meant as well as anyone you are thanking, and their words are gone. You will never see them.

[Dedhed]

Nightfirebolt is a wiser man than I and thank you for your post. I'ma take a cue here. Take care everybody **waves**

 

This is me glancing at this thread:

 

[DieselCat]

On both the accounts you were using in this thread?

Might be time to make a third, pretend that's different person too. Call it bubba.

 hmmm...only aware of my one account that I use to post here and elsewhere on the forums. 

 

Care to fill me in what the other one is ?

 

*+

[CraftyDus]

 hmmm...only aware of my one account that I use to post here and elsewhere on the forums. 

 

Care to fill me in what the other one is ?

 

*+

 

 

I was talking to dehed earlier and you replied, as if you were dedhed and had forgotten you were on a different account.

[Rainbow_Sheep]

I don't want to offend you here, but it's discussions like this that determine what exactly civilization is.

Thank you tickle for being a gentleman lemon *salutes*

(This and your other polite posts there after)

Edited by Rainbow Sheep, 27 June 2015 - 11:53 PM.

[borsdy]

Getting weird in this thread.. Stop clouding the argument so much, bigots! Typical american conservative

Edited by borsdy, 28 June 2015 - 12:49 AM.

[defekt]

Ouch.  Any entirely expected catastrophe* of a thread.

 

* In Hawken 'community' terms.

[Aregon]

Getting weird in this thread.. Stop clouding the argument so much, bigots! Typical american conservative

This is how you continue a flame war, by saying names about one part. You may have just thrown more gasoline onto the flame by saying so. If you plan to call names, I recommend saying that both parts here are immature imbeciles who are all embarrassments for us other members of the community who know that there are certain things to just shut the f*ck up with. 

[borsdy]

I will honestly say that I enjoy this, let the imbeciles stuck in their own world expose themselves

[crockrocket]

I am somewhat reluctant to join this thread because of the vitriol I have seen thus far. However, I want to speak my mind. First of all, I am very much pleased by the recent SCOTUS decision. I have a lot of friends that have been waiting for such a decision, and I am happy for them that this has happened. It is a bit overdue.

 

Now, that being said, I agree with a couple of tickle's posts re: politics do not belong. At least not in general discussion, and especially not in the form of a forum badge. Keep in mind that this is an exclusive; anyone joining the game after this ends will not have the badge, whether or not they want it. And to anyone trying to say this isn't political, bull. That's why the supreme court decided this, yep nothing to do with politics. Not at all. /s

 

Now, nept does bring up a good point in that important issues are important to discuss. I don't disagree with that. I just think this should be in off-topic, with maybe an announcement with comments disabled. The error, in my opinion, lies with the forum badge. There are just so many reasons why a politically tied forum badge can be misused. Yes, I don't see that sort of misuse coming from anyone supporting LGBT, but I have to disagree with the badge on principle. This is not a precedent you want to set. Unlikely scenario, but what if some racist movement managed to gain a strong popular foothold and got something through SCOTUS? Would Reloaded supply a racist forum badge?

 

Again, absolutely nothing against anyone. I am proud of my country for finally supporting equal rights. The supreme court decision itself has zero bearing on my perturbation with the forum badge.

[Bad_BennyAK]

Yes...  The LGBT community has a bad habit of crying Wolf,  and frankly we're tired of it.   Celebrate as you call it,  but not really, because even in your media,  you are lamenting the loss of your "victim" status.   No one has a problem with a gay person or player.   We have a problem with the "Victims" who cry "Wolf" when someone asks you for the time of day.  And yes,  Polygamists and minors are right behind.   We can't stand people who are dishonest.   that can't defend their lifestyle honestly.   It's the same mentality with many in the black community.   Do you know why people hesitate to hire some?   Not becasue they're black,  but becasue they're afriad of a lawsuit if an employee wakes up on the wrong side of bed.  It's a litigious liability.   The LGBT community THRIVES on making a stink about things,  look at the debate in this game forum.  Normal,  professional game players are yawning,  and wanting to get to the game,  the LGBT community lets the insults, names, and vitriol fly like flak from a Raider Re-Flak gun, if we all don't "share in the celebration".   

 

In short.   I respect good,  professional, courteous game players.   Period.  And I'll celebrate when our team wins!  

[Rei]

y'know the heart camo WAS free before :3c... 

[JeffMagnum]

Yes... The LGBT community has a bad habit of crying Wolf, and frankly we're tired of it. Celebrate as you call it, but not really, because even in your media, you are lamenting the loss of your "victim" status. No one has a problem with a gay person or player. We have a problem with the "Victims" who cry "Wolf" when someone asks you for the time of day. And yes, Polygamists and minors are right behind. We can't stand people who are dishonest. that can't defend their lifestyle honestly. It's the same mentality with many in the black community. Do you know why people hesitate to hire some? Not becasue they're black, but becasue they're afriad of a lawsuit if an employee wakes up on the wrong side of bed. It's a litigious liability. The LGBT community THRIVES on making a stink about things, look at the debate in this game forum. Normal, professional game players are yawning, and wanting to get to the game, the LGBT community lets the insults, names, and vitriol fly like flak from a Raider Re-Flak gun, if we all don't "share in the celebration".

In short. I respect good, professional, courteous game players. Period. And I'll celebrate when our team wins!

oh god why is everything changing around me i just want to go back to when gay and black people had no voice or influence pls

[WmMoneyFrmMissouri]

Wow Benny.... They're bummed about losing their victim status. Wow dude, you've got some problems with that wheeled hamster between your ears.

[SandSpider2]

LOL

[DerMax]

It's refreshing to see the two goofest goofs � Nept and Crafty � finally writing some good stuff and not edgy sarcastic remarks.