47 replies to this topic

[nepacaka]

one pics.



today i play in siege and i use this tactic to win. we play 3vs3 and it was normal, than 2 guys connected, and we start play 3vs5. it will be a little unfair and we can't get AA, so, i just ask my teammates take incinerators and shoot in ship, than launch our ship and win. We all know that incinirator broken almost all hawken rules, and this is one of them.

i think this incinirator ability is actually sometimes make siege mode a really stupid and unfair, because several incinerators with PPA actually can beat the ship faster than Anti-Air silo.

i.e. all mech can deal about 1100-1600 damage before overheat. Incinerator deal infinity damage before overheat, and don't spent time to cooling at all. so he can destroy ship in solo faster than 20 seconds.

And i see a many players who always change on incinirators to beat ship, if their team can't get AA. they always do it in the end of fights. i.e. they don't play on inci, they just use his unbalanced DPS to kill the ship extremely fast.

Because inci don't have overheat, even without SAARE he can deal more damage to ship than other, so...

Which siege gameplay you preffer?

 

 

I actually do not know what the purpose of the topic. because we all known how idiotic incinerator is. It is just one example which called "broken mechanic" =/

just sometimes this idiocy is a very annoying me.

Edited by nepacaka, 05 August 2015 - 07:17 PM.

[DM30]

Yeah, it is kind of silly that this is possible in Siege games. I find that Incin-stacking in most modes isn't really anything special IMO, but in Siege it gets frustrating fast. Assuming the players are competent in them at all, the sheer amount of endless DPS that they can put on the Battleship, or on the AA when they're attacking, or on the approaches to the AA when defending can get stupid.

 

In the grand scheme of things Incin isn't THAT OP, but some of its mechanics are just OP enough to warrant a revision, I think.

[Flifang]

I kind of just want to do a seige game with everyone on my team using incin and just camping in base to troll the other team. But nobody ever takes to stacking mech suggestions so... *sadface*

[Panzermanathod]

 We all know that incinirator broken almost all hawken rules, and this is one of them.
 

Rules were made to be broken!

[nepacaka]

But nobody ever takes to stacking mech suggestions so...

 

someone from team take very often. when they start to lose. than specially dies, and change inci to regular mech.

 

In the grand scheme of things Incin isn't THAT OP

 

they always been broken and cause problems, while his damage before overheat will be infinity.

it is more fun if compare with other.

like a brawler - main tank/defender, can deal 1100 dmg and have small DPS, higher overheat time.

gren and vanguard - defender/damager, can deal 1300-1600 dmg.

rockee - support, 900 damage before overheat.

and incinirator - support. support! higher c-class speed, 2 place on HP pool, highest walking speed, infinity DPS potential. 210 DPS (40-60 more, than other mechs). best overheat time - only 3.75 sec. Insane "big-fireball" blast radius and faster fire-rate with 80 DPS.

 

do you not think it is a little "enough" for one mech? xD

when all other mech have a tonnes of drawback.

 

yes, i can easily beat this fuzzy bunny in 1vs1, but when they starting go with two, three incinirators, it is not fun. and team with 3 inci with infinity DPS it is OP. when one team have 8K damage for example, another team have a 20k (i give each inci 5K). it is very stupid.

 

it is mostly OP due the biggest blast radius and insane firerate, decrease big-fireball blast radius twice (to inci start required x2 skill to hit someone), and nobody want play on this sh!t.

Edited by nepacaka, 05 August 2015 - 11:34 PM.

[Panzermanathod]

Nepa, the overheat time for Incin is so low because it gets crippled the most from overheating. PPA Incin, if that overheats, isn't 3.75 seconds until shooting again, it's closer to 7. And even then you can't use SAARE until you heat up enough.

 

Also, Incin does not have infinite DPS. That's not how DPS works. It, or just the PPA which some of Incin's detractors think is the only weapon it has, has high DPS.

[1uster]

Thanks for the tip!

[nepacaka]

 infinite DPS

it's a metaphor

 

and actually, while other mechs spent time to overheat between shooting, inci don't spent. and his DPS from 210 increased even more. so, no need talikng fuzzy bunny, his DPS not infinite, but it is higher than 210 actually, because it no need to cooling =/

and doesn't matter how it calling.

Edited by nepacaka, 06 August 2015 - 09:07 AM.

[Panzermanathod]

it's a metaphor.

 

You're a metaphor.... for russians!

 

 

 

and actually, while other mechs spent time to overheat between shooting, inci don't spent. and his DPS from 210 increased even more. so, no need talikng fuzzy bunny, his DPS not infinite, but it is higher than 210 actually, because it no need to cooling =/

and doesn't matter how it calling.

 

Unless there is some weird way people calculated DPS for it, no, it doesn't go up because it can potentially shoot forever. Especially since PPA Incin cannot maintain maximum DPS for more than a few seconds (which is less than any other mech in the game). So whatever theoretical rise in DPS you thought PPA Incin gets would go down due to it being unable to maintain it in full.

[Hyginos]

You're a metaphor.... for russians!

 

...

What?

 

 

Unless there is some weird way people calculated DPS for it, no, it doesn't go up because it can potentially shoot forever. Especially since PPA Incin cannot maintain maximum DPS for more than a few seconds (which is less than any other mech in the game). So whatever theoretical rise in DPS you thought PPA Incin gets would go down due to it being unable to maintain it in full.

 

Much like burst vs sustained DPS is calculated in other games to account for reload times, you can calculate DPS based on overheat times in Hawken.

[Panzermanathod]

Well, I've never seen that myself. Generally when I've seen DPS in some fashion it's just for optimal firing use and not for reloading.

 

That being said, how is PPA Incin's DPS so high if overheating is accounted for? As I said, it cannot maintain maximum DPS for more than a few seconds, and if someone uses PPA's max DPS all the time they would spend more time unable to shoot than actually shooting.

[nepacaka]

What?

 

it's a metaphor.

 

 

Incin cannot maintain maximum DPS for more than a few seconds (which is less than any other mech in the game)

 

wat?

 

how about brawler? any mech with Heat? eoc? etc.

Brawler can not maintain maximum DPS, and hes real DPS with Flak not a ~135, because he can't shoot in everything all the time. Even if brawler want he can't realize more than 100.

 

Yes, maybe inci real DPS not a 210. sure. But other mech DPS also not a 150, it is actually less. so, PPA inci leader in this in any case. even without maximum value.

 

+ inci total damage during the fight has an incredible potential, and may exceed other mech damage in several times. i mean, if you play on brawler and deal 5000 damage during whole fight, incinerator can deal 15000, because it still no need time to overheat, while brawler don't do nothing.

Edited by nepacaka, 06 August 2015 - 11:55 AM.

[HepTagoN]

+ inci total damage during the fight has an incredible potential, and may exceed other mech damage in several times. i mean, if you play on brawler and deal 5000 damage during whole fight, incinerator can deal 15000, because it still no need time to overheat, while brawler don't do nothing.

 

But brawler can do peek-a-boo and hide behind corner. And inci cannot. That makes incis very vulnerable. Especially vs snippers. Isnt it?

 

Incinerator also suffer extremly if EMPed. If his enemy got wepons cold enough, incinerator is basically dead.

Edited by HepTagoN, 06 August 2015 - 12:25 PM.

[DeeRax]

Incin is a goofball mech in any mode.
 

But especially in Siege, it makes me feel...



Seriously... Re-design the P.O.S. It's so poor.

[Panzermanathod]

wat?

 

how about brawler? any mech with Heat? eoc? etc.

Brawler can not maintain maximum DPS, and hes real DPS with Flak not a ~135, because he can't shoot in everything all the time. Even if brawler want he can't realize more than 100.

 

Yes, maybe inci real DPS not a 210. sure. But other mech DPS also not a 150, it is actually less. so, PPA inci leader in this in any case. even without maximum value.

 

+ inci total damage during the fight has an incredible potential, and may exceed other mech damage in several times. i mean, if you play on brawler and deal 5000 damage during whole fight, incinerator can deal 15000, because it still no need time to overheat, while brawler don't do nothing.

I'm not denying that the Incin has the highest damage potential over time. I was referring to Hyginos comment that DPS could have the overheating added in. In which case I ask how Incin's is so high if overheating is included.

 

The damage thing you said is a tad on the idealistic side. Both of them are different mechs with different capabilities, and as Hept said, Brawler, or most other mechs, can benefit a lot more from corner play than Incin.

[Flifang]

Yeah sure a brawler can play peekaboo and an incin can't. The incin just cheats by hitting the slow ass hitbox from around the corner with the massive splash damage it has. You're going to take lots of damage every time you poke out or run back under cover assuming you're not boost dodging. Even then you're just a giant radar beacon for the enemy team to know where you are.

[HepTagoN]

Yeah sure a brawler can play peekaboo and an incin can't. The incin just cheats by hitting the slow ass hitbox from around the corner with the massive splash damage it has. You're going to take lots of damage every time you poke out or run back under cover assuming you're not boost dodging. Even then you're just a giant radar beacon for the enemy team to know where you are.

 

Moonlight has blurred you judgement, sir.

 

Do you even hawken bro? In game named hawken we jump out of corner to deliver damage to enemy which maks us visible on radar anyway. <facepalm>

Damn.

Edited by HepTagoN, 06 August 2015 - 02:37 PM.

[comic_sans]

Moonlight has blurred you judgement, sir.

 

Do you even hawken bro? In game named hawken we jump out of corner to deliver damage to enemy which maks us visible on radar anyway. <facepalm>

Damn.

 

I feel like there's a language issue here.

[nepacaka]

Incinerator also suffer extremly if EMPed.

 

who not suffer from EMP?

in any case, EMP easy too evade, it happen a very rare, so, be a realist, you need only one dodge.

 

can benefit a lot more from corner play than Incin.

 

The damage thing you said is a tad on the idealistic side.

 

idealistic side? vulcan gren and vanguard can't corner play (i mean, they surely can if shoot only from secondary, but actually inci also can, if start shooting only from secondary. just add a 90% heat than don't shoot,  and yes, it is hard and stupid.)

 

i mean, all sustained mech do corner play worse than burst mechs, and they have a higher DPS than burst mechs, but inci have a higher DPS than sustain! :D

it is you look from idealistic side =)

 

people should finally accept that all incinerator problems come from hes ability to shoot endlessly, as it violates the foundations of Hawken. And it will always be broken, while it will exist in game.

 

and look at their roles. many other mech not universal. like brawler (i just use brawler for example)

with flak it is pek-a-boo, with only cqc damage, with SA it is support with very cheap DPS, and working at all range

vulcan turn brawler in a pusher (very bad pusher, because slow cooling... =/ )

 

but inci actually is a several roles in one. he is a pusher, damage dealer (what? it is true, he can deal a lot of damage!), he is support, because debuff enemies and buff teammates? other mech don't have so much advantages in one moment. and you know that i'm right. you just do not want to recognize that inci needs to change...

 

 

for example, if SAARE have a two mode: first mode - just damage, and second mode - only oveheat enemy (with 0 damage to armor)

yes, i can say that this inci is a True-support. mech who deal less damage than other, but debuffing and overheating enemies so much. now inci have an advantage, and have a disadvantage. do you see, how easy I turn it into a real support without superior damage?

because right how inci is a "killing machine", "walking wall of damage"... he is anyone, but he is not a support!

 

 

---

and actually, inci is a almost universal mech. he can do all what can do any sustain mech, i mean assaults, vanguards, and other. and he stronger than they, due to HP and better speed (for C).

and to be honest, all peek-a-boo mech is less effective in 6-vs-6, because they are balanced for 1-vs-1 fight, and not for a 6-vs-6.

look at Brawler or Heat-Gren. They can be very strong in duel. very strong. But in normal team fight they starting sux. Because they are very slow (i'm not about speed, i mean only time to kill), and their DPS. It does not allow them to kill quickly, and carry out a number of necessary conditions and regulations. at the same time any sustain mech is simple and receives much more advantages is in the 6-vs-6 fight.

 

If look at hawken balance in this incision, all burst mech should be buffed with DPS (minimum +10. minimum...) to be more good in team fights. they must kill enemies faster. Right now they only good balanced for duel. but we don't have duel in hawken, right? these mechs should kill people in siege, is not it?

 

sorry for my english, i think it is mostly unreadable due alot of mistakes

 

 

The incin just cheats by hitting the slow ass hitbox from around the corner with the massive splash damage it has.

 

this actually, true (mostly in duel). and i don't know another way to beat burst mech, but it work due to biggest splash radius from big-saare.

Edited by nepacaka, 06 August 2015 - 10:16 PM.

[Panzermanathod]

who not suffer from EMP?

in any case, EMP easy too evade, it happen a very rare, so, be a realist, you need only one dodge.

 

(((Everyone suffers from EMP. On average, Incin suffers the most from EMP. Whether or not one avoids it is irrelevant.

 

And one dodge is not always all you need to avoid an EMP.)))

 

 

idealistic side? vulcan gren and vanguard can't corner play (i mean, they surely can if shoot only from secondary, but actually inci also can, if start shooting only from secondary. just add a 90% heat than don't shoot,  and yes, it is hard and stupid.)

 

(((If we're talking about shooting only from secondary that puts Incin at a disadvantage for corner play)))

 

i mean, all sustained mech do corner play worse than burst mechs, and they have a higher DPS than burst mechs, but inci have a higher DPS than sustain! :D

it is you look from idealistic side =)

 

(((Sustain has higher DPS. But sustain has higher DPS than sustain. Language barrier or not, that is literally what you just said. Even then, with PPA Incin it's harder to get good corner play than most other sustain mechs.)))

 

people should finally accept that all incinerator problems come from hes ability to shoot endlessly,

 

(((I will accept that if that were actually, you know... true. Of is this your use of hyperbole again?)))

 

as it violates the foundations of Hawken. And it will always be broken, while it will exist in game.

 

(((Incinerator racism!)))

 

and look at their roles. many other mech not universal. like brawler (i just use brawler for example)

with flak it is pek-a-boo, with only cqc damage, with SA it is support with very cheap DPS, and working at all range

vulcan turn brawler in a pusher (very bad pusher, because slow cooling... =/ )

 

but inci actually is a several roles in one. he is a pusher, damage dealer (what? it is true, he can deal a lot of damage!), he is support, because debuff enemies and buff teammates? other mech don't have so much advantages in one moment. 

 

(((These aren't wholly "advantages". These are, as you said, roles. But, fine, I'll let you have that.)))

 

and you know that i'm right. you just do not want to recognize that inci needs to change...

 

(((I hope that wasn't meant for me because even I had said Incin could use a few changes)))

 

 

for example, if SAARE have a two mode: first mode - just damage, and second mode - only oveheat enemy (with 0 damage to armor)

yes, i can say that this inci is a True-support. mech who deal less damage than other, but debuffing and overheating enemies so much. now inci have an advantage, and have a disadvantage. do you see, how easy I turn it into a real support without superior damage?

because right how inci is a "killing machine", "walking wall of damage"... he is anyone, but he is not a support!

 

(((Incin is support. Whether or not you pay attention to its support qualities is irrelevant, but it is support. Not pure support, but more of a support mech than a good deal of other mechs. )))

 

Edited by Panzermanathod, 06 August 2015 - 10:16 PM.

[nepacaka]

Sustain has higher DPS. But sustain has higher DPS than sustain.

 

i say

burst mech dps < sustain mech dps < incin dps.

i mean that incin have a higher dps than assault, bruiser, berserk, vanguard, and other pew-pew. mech.

 

I will accept that if that were actually, you know... true. Of is this your use of hyperbole again?

 

:D
 

Incinerator racism!

 

no, it is just a true xD

Edited by nepacaka, 06 August 2015 - 10:43 PM.

[nepacaka]

Incin is support. Whether or not you pay attention to its support qualities is irrelevant, but it is support. Not pure support, but more of a support mech than a good deal of other mechs.

 

in our current hawken reality support is a brawler and rocketeer. incin is a pusher.

 

These aren't wholly "advantages". These are, as you said, roles. But, fine, I'll let you have that.

 

so, if it not an advantages, what is it? i just use simple terminology. good and bad.

 

i.e. how many advantages SA-brawler have in real fight?

Range +

HP +

hm...

DPS? no. -

w.speed -

boost speed -

and how many adv have incin?
Range -
HP +

w.speed -
speed + (it is + for C)
DPS +
heat debuff +

buf fteammates +

and i'm not added "time to overheat", it is actually a very important parameter for game modes such a Siege or MA (and even for DM if play with 10 peoples)

 

even more mech racism.

incin belong to the Aryan race, and I do not understand why one mech should have more advantages than others?
look at the technician. He can heal others, he also have the fastest walk speed (to heal C-Class and follow it without any problem). But it is bad in everything else. He is weak. He is a real support. yes?

Edited by nepacaka, 06 August 2015 - 11:02 PM.

[Panzermanathod]

burst mech dps < sustain mech dps < incin dps.

I'm sorry but I find it weird that now you're saying that the Incin is apparently some third class of mech now.

 

 

in our current hawken reality support is a brawler and rocketeer. incin is a pusher.

 

(((So, in essence, )))

 

 

so, if it not an advantages, what is it? i just use simple terminology. good and bad.

 

(((I said not wholly advantages. I also said that you otherwise made your point there))

 

i.e. how many advantages SA-brawler have in real fight?

Range +

HP +

hm...

DPS? no. -

w.speed -

boost speed -

 

{{{It has the highest health pool, the ability for added defense, and it can heal.)))

and how many adv have incin?
Range -
HP +

w.speed -
speed + (it is + for C)
DPS +
heat debuff +

buf fteammates +

 

(((A poor fuel tank. Also, DPS only really applies for PPA Incin. Maybe for M4MA but that is less useful in direct combat. Also the EMP screws over Incin more than any other mech. And Incin drains enemy heat. Plus all weapons require spin up. )))
 

look at the technician. He can heal others, he also have the fastest walk speed (to heal C-Class and follow it without any problem). But it is bad in everything else. He is weak. He is a real support. yes?

 

(((It can heal itself and can debuff enemies too with redox. Or be decent at mid range with Hawkins.

 

But, yes, Tech is support. Are you implying that a support mech has to be weak? Even I said Incin isn't pure support, but it is support. )))

[nepacaka]

DPS only really applies for PPA Incin

 

just a thinking.

 

with big saare

ppa - 104+106= 210

bby - 100+106= 206

mom - 80+106= 186

 

witn small saare

104+80= 184

100+80= 180

80+80= 160

 

maximum DPS mechs in game it is a Mini-flak Vanguard - 125+50=175 DPS.

(with numbers, does not matter than his weapon don't deal damage after 45 meters :D)

Assault/Berserk - 176 w/vulcan, 154 w/AR

SA Brawler - 142.

Actually all of their DPS is the same due by range, i mean even if miniflak Van can deal too much damage, he can not do it always, because enemy can stand far away and mini-flak just useless. well, i think you understand me.

 

and this is perfect to see that a Incinerator have a normal DPS with small-saare. it is really support without tonnes a DPS.

problem in big-saare mode. which any of his weapon can deal OP damage.

 

and surely, i agree about it "applies with ppa", but big splash radius and damage/dps from second saare mode, caused a much more problem. nerf this or halving the blast radius, and incin turn into a normal mech. (bullet parabollic also should be decreased, due the pics which i draw in first post =/)

And actually people stop play on it, because it will start require much more skill to to kill someone in fight. and move Incinerator role to a support, and to the teammates cooling... no more damage dealer and tanking

Edited by nepacaka, 07 August 2015 - 12:13 AM.

[StubbornPuppet]

Really weird... I had a post in this topic and it has either disappeared or has been deleted with no message to me.  I can't imagine the latter is the case, as there was nothing off-color, against the rules or even the least bit unfriendly.

 

Message me if you know anything about this.

[Meraple]

the ability for added defense, and it can heal.

Brawler's Turret Mode is generally pretty bad though.

I just came here to shame turret mode, please don't hit me.

[Panzermanathod]

just a thinking.

 

with big saare

ppa - 104+106= 210

bby - 100+106= 206

(((For, what, 3 seconds?)))

 

mom - 80+106= 186

(((I'll give you that, although in any real battle it'll be hard to land all your shots against mobile targets. At least considering Mama isn't hitscan.)))

 

witn small saare

104+80= 184

100+80= 180

80+80= 160

 

(((I'll kinda give you that as well, although, for PPA and M4MA they can't maintain that DPS with small SAARE for more than a few seconds, something other mechs can do for a longer period)))

 

maximum DPS mechs in game it is a Mini-flak Vanguard - 125+50=175 DPS.

(with numbers, does not matter than his weapon don't deal damage after 45 meters :D)

Assault/Berserk - 176 w/vulcan, 154 w/AR

SA Brawler - 142.

Actually all of their DPS is the same due by range, i mean even if miniflak Van can deal too much damage, he can not do it always, because enemy can stand far away and mini-flak just useless. well, i think you understand me.

 

(((I do, but if we're talking about being outside optimal distances effecting DPS then why worry so much about Incin? It's effective ranges are more than Flaks, yes, but that's more an issue with sustained than the bulk of Incin's weapons)))

 

and this is perfect to see that a Incinerator have a normal DPS with small-saare. it is really support without tonnes a DPS.

problem in big-saare mode. which any of his weapon can deal OP damage.

 

and surely, i agree about it "applies with ppa", but big splash radius and damage/dps from second saare mode, caused a much more problem. nerf this or halving the blast radius, and incin turn into a normal mech. (bullet parabollic also should be decreased, due the pics which i draw in first post =/)

And actually people stop play on it, because it will start require much more skill to to kill someone in fight. and move Incinerator role to a support, and to the teammates cooling... no more damage dealer and tanking

 

 

And this has shown me that for Incin you need to work harder for higher relative DPS over, in some cases, a shorter period of time. Which is different from other mechs who have more consistent DPSs over relatively longer periods of time.

 

I use FlakGuard. I can assure you that max DPS FlakGuard can fire longer than max DPS PPAIncin.

 

This has been enlightening. I think I understand more what they were thinking when they made Incin the way it is.

 

The Incin is unironically "balanced", but in a way that's unbalanced with most other mechs. It's a weird sort of balance in which it's good at what it does to the point where people will ignore it's downsides (and people do ignore its downsides, or think it doesn't have any notable downsides. It's like people saying old school gaming is the best gaming all the while ignoring most of the crap that came out during that time). It's practically a Burst Mech with sustain properties!

 

Again, I've said the Incin needs some changes, but I think I see more what they wanted when they made Incin. It's not horribly broken. It's just damned weird to the point that other people think it's broken. Incin is to Hawken what is what Dr. B is to Tekken 3. I should buy a second Incin and name it Dr. Boskonovitch'Jizah.

 

Thank you, Nepa. I now understand Incin more with your input. Hinoken'Jizah has been vindicated.

 

 

 

But not completely.

 

 

 

 

 

Brawler's Turret Mode is generally pretty bad though.

I just came here to shame turret mode, please don't hit me.

 

I won't deny that. Still, the ability to heal over time is nothing to scoff at, which is why it has such low frontal defenses.

 

That said, I don't really care for Brawler. It uses TOW, and I'm not a fan. I'd otherwise would have gotten one by now.

Edited by Panzermanathod, 07 August 2015 - 05:48 PM.

[nepacaka]

This has been enlightening. I think I understand more what they were thinking when they made Incin the way it is.

 

I think I see more what they wanted when they made Incin.

 

even first version of incinerator (if someone forgot, when incin came out, PPA will be extremely hard and the BBY have a barell spin time) will be better and harder. since devs change it, make PPA easy to control and delete spin from BBY, We get what we have.

 

probably Adhesive Devs can corrected inci later, but they just "ded" before they could fix any game balance.

 

 

I won't deny that. Still, the ability to heal over time is nothing to scoff at, which is why it has such low frontal defenses.

 

you need to try it to understand it. By the way, here's a another free example about incinerator "infinity" DPS.

If Brawler or Vangrard uses turret and throw the Orb (probably with repair-kit...). all mech in game can't kill they in frontal. enemies just overheat faster, than brawler or vanguard HP decreased to zero. But not incinerator! he can easily destroy it, because he don't overheat :D

Edited by nepacaka, 07 August 2015 - 11:50 PM.

[Panzermanathod]

 

even first version of incinerator (if someone forgot, when incin came out, PPA will be extremely hard and the BBY have a barell spin time) will be better and harder. since devs change it, make PPA easy to control and delete spin from BBY, We get what we have.

 

(((PPA is not "easy to control" compared to most weapons. Knowing how to not have it overheat in 3 seconds and ease of use are 2 different things. Saying PPA is easy to control implies it's as easy to use as, say, the SMC. Which it isn't.

 

And BBY still has a spin up. It's just not as noticeable.)))

 

probably Adhesive Devs can corrected inci later, but they just "ded" before they could fix any game balance.

 

 

you need to try it to understand it. By the way, here's a another free example about incinerator "infinity" DPS.

 

(((Seriously if you want to make a point you really, really need to limit your use of hyperbole. I know english isn't your first language, obviously, but you're using "infinite" unnecessarily. You are saying the Incin can kill everything in one hit. Incin shoots infinitely under optimal circumstances. It does not, however, have Infinite DPS.)))

 

 

If Brawler or Vangrard uses turret and throw the Orb (probably with repair-kit...). all mech in game can't kill they in frontal. enemies just overheat faster, than brawler or vanguard HP decreased to zero. But not incinerator! he can easily destroy it, because he don't overheat :D

 

(((Nepa says: Orblording is okay! At least it isn't Incinerator!

 

No one's denying that Incin is more offensive. Conversely, Brawler and Vanguard are more defensive. If you go face to face with a turreted Orb Lorder, you are at a disadvantage because you are shooting at a target with heightened defenses and essentially health regeneration. If you go face to face with an Orb lording Incinerator it has less defense but more offense and essentially less effective health regeneration.

 

Either way, you're at a disadvantage. Just different disadvantages. So what was the point?)))

 

 

[Hecatoncheires]

In my opinion, the incinerator's pretty balanced already, though the damage output could be reduced very slightly as well as their turn speed, but really not too much. Keep in mind, this is all just from my experience playing the incinerator and other mechs, I really don't pay attention to the stats and whatnot.

 

To make this simple, I'll list my points:

1. Incinerators are not a support class. The 'supp' would rather stand for 'suppression' a.k.a. bruiser for you moba players. Its role is to reduce enemy hp in order to make it easier for burst killers to kill multiple foes very quickly, over increasing teammates' endurance or strength. With MMA, it DOES gain debuff capabilities, but it's not potent enough to really make it a support.

 

2. The heat absorption passive ability isn't that great since you should be constantly moving in battles, so unless your teammates's always following you (the technician) it's not that useful. Also, no matter how great the synergy is, a tech/incinerator combo isn't as great as a really good technician helping everyone.

 

3. Reducing the incinerator's damage output would reduce its 1v1 potential so it wouldn't be able to stand alone in a duel very well, making it unappealing to most players, since not everyone has friends. :(

 

4. Incinerators don't have any burst potential since they actually perform a lot better if you constantly have your guns shooting constantly while in battle. You CAN sneak up on people, but your advantage from surprise only lasts for the moment; you can't constantly confuse your opponent like jumping over them/running around with the berserker/scout. (edit: just noticed it was rather stupid to compare it to light weights here, I should've said it's more difficult to run away or chase like with a vanguard or something similar)

 

5. For that problem with siege mode you mentioned, to be honest, having multiples of ANY mech in siege is kind of unfair to a point, though i understand how incincerators have an unfair advantage over other mechs on top of that. Maybe this could rather be solved with a limit on types of mechs per game, though people will definitely not be happy with this.

 

6. Sadly I don't have the brawler and am not really that used to playing c-class mechs, so I can't really compare it well to them first-hand. When I'm killing c-class mechs though, as a scout, incinerators are rather high on my easiest to kill list. They're very easy to maneuver around, confuse, and kill because of how predictable they are. Unless you're REALLY good at playing an incinerator, and are some ninja, you'll always take quite a bit of damage against a burst mech.  And this is including situations where there are at least 2, 3, or more incinerators. PPA and MMA just worsen this weakness with their spin times. The most unpredictable part about them is their active ability, which is hard to use properly without taking damage anyway.

 

 

TLDR: Incinerators are the most predictable mech in the game, so they're not that overpowered.

Edited by Hecatoncheires, 08 August 2015 - 01:06 AM.

[nepacaka]

When I'm killing c-class mechs though, as a scout, incinerators are rather high on my easiest to kill list. They're very easy to maneuver around, confuse, and kill because of how predictable they are.

 

it's just depent from enemy skill.

 

Incinerators are the most predictable mech in the game, so they're not that overpowered.

 

1vs1 not. it team fight It gives too much, if compared with others.

[Panzermanathod]

I still say Incin is support. It has support qualities, but not as "supportive" as Tech, Snipers, or Rocketeer. I call it support due to what it can do, not what people use it for. Just because I can use a Reaper in close range battle doesn't mean it's a close ranged mech, and I generally have seen far more Sharpshooters trying to snipe than Reapers. Saying Incin's ability to syphon heat from others isn't useful unless you are following other mechs is kind of weird due to the fact that, ideally, one should act as part of a team.

 

And I half jokingly said Incin had burst properties. But let's get real here, full on PPA Incin is the closest you can get to a burst mech with a sustained weapon. You cannot Sustain fire with PPA, you always have to shoot it in Bursts. And there isn't a lot of difference between shooting a flak cannon every so often due to RoF and shooting a few bullets from a gatling gun every so often due to overheat risk. Conversely, you can shoot the BBY and M4MA constantly to your hearts content as long as you keep the SAARE firing

[nepacaka]

I know english isn't your first language, obviously, but you're using "infinite" unnecessarily. You are saying the Incin can kill everything in one hit.

 

incin can shoot whole fight without interruption, and all other mech can't. and his total damage for the whole fight is much higher than the other mechs have.

 

maybe i use "infinite DPS" incorrect, but this is actually what i mean. probably it should be "infinite damage dealer" or something similar.

 

Nepa says: Orblording is okay! At least it isn't Incinerator!

 

i say "only one orb" :P it is not Orblording.

 

just a brawler with one orb in turret mode. without orb, any mech can kill brawler in turret mode in front. (it's actually working good in very rare case without tech, if compared with other mechs, who can press ability by cooldown and gain profit)

but this topic about inci. buff or nerf brawler ability - required a different topic.

 

 

Vanguard are more defensive

 

Vanguard is a perfect attacking mech.

 

. If you go face to face with an Orb lording Incinerator it has less defense but more offense and essentially less effective health regeneration.

 

If you go face to face with an Orb lording Incinerator... you overheat before you can kill him :)

but incin not overheat

Edited by nepacaka, 08 August 2015 - 08:29 AM.

[TronX33]

Nepa, you are a great member of the community (your mech ideas are awesome), but you give some statements that I really, really, need to answer. First of all, as Panzer said, the Incin does not have "infinite" DPS. DPS is damage per second, so that statements is saying that in one second, a Incin can kill all other enemy mechs by dealing out infinite damage. You said that the Incin has infinite damage over time, but still, if the Incin messes up on timing his papa, or is hit by a EMP, then they can't fire, and the spin up times prolongs the recovery. Then, you say that if an Incin is using a repair orb, then you overheat before you can kill them. First of all, to be able to use the repair orb, you have to be generally pretty close to the orb. This means the ncin is moving very little, and not dodging. This makes it much easier to hit and kill the Incin, especially with HEAT scout and Infil, unloading their massive amounts of damage on the Incin, or the brawler, who can in essence spam the FLAK cannon and TOWs. Also, especially on faster mechs, like Blitzed Raider, or As in general, you can dodge a majority of their SAAREs, cooling yourself down. The reduced heating effect also applies to enemy mechs, which slows down your heating. And, as other people said, the PPA (which is what you are mainly criticizing) needs to be fired in burst, or even with spamming of big fireballs, the Incin will overheat, reducing actual DPS.

[Panzermanathod]

incin can shoot whole fight without interruption, and all other mech can't. and his total damage for the whole fight is much higher than the other mechs have.

 

(((Yes. But this doesn't really mean much in the grand scheme of things, referring to potential total damage. That assumes Incin is always shooting at someone with few, if any breaks. Yes, it has the highest potential, but that doesn't mean it would be the highest in any match it's in.)))

 

maybe i use "infinite DPS" incorrect, but this is actually what i mean. probably it should be "infinite damage dealer" or something similar.

 

(((Infinite shooting is what you want, not Infinite damage dealer.)))

 

i say "only one orb" :P it is not Orblording.

 

(((It's still tanking damage by means of an orb, the only difference being how much health and how long its done.)))

 

just a brawler with one orb in turret mode. without orb, any mech can kill brawler in turret mode in front. (it's actually working good in very rare case without tech, if compared with other mechs, who can press ability by cooldown and gain profit)

but this topic about inci. buff or nerf brawler ability - required a different topic.

 

(((And any mech could kill Incin with a frontal assault, although Incin has the added benefit of mobility for its lack of added defense and lower health.)))

 

 

Vanguard is a perfect attacking mech.

(((With arguably the best turret mode of the game, giving it much more defense than other TM's along with slightly faster TM movement. )))

 

If you go face to face with an Orb lording Incinerator... you overheat before you can kill him :)

but incin not overheat

 

(((Any other mech can not overheat either. It's called choosing your shots. Not to mention Fred/Assault's/G2 Assault's special ability.)))

[Flifang]

The incinerator can do assaulting, suppression, and objective pressure better than any other mech in the game. That's what it boils down to. In fact, the incinerator's support utilities are so laughably few in number; that just because I can dodge into a tow with my assault to tank a hit meant for my teammate I'll start to call that a support mech. This mech's deemed support role was merely added after the mech's true purpose was fleshed out. To any of you who weren't around back then it was implemented to neutralize deathballs. The tech's main utility is to heal teammates. The incinerator's main utility is to dismantle enemies fast and scatter them for fear of everyone taking the splash damage. Gimme a grenadier or a raider and I can do relatively the same thing. The heat absorb and mama bear isn't justification for a mech to be classified as support.

[Panzermanathod]

. Gimme a grenadier or a raider and I can do relatively the same thing. The heat absorb and mama bear isn't justification for a mech to be classified as support.

Yes. Yes it is.

 

Just so we're clear, I still call Incin a support mech. It has support qualities that people, including you, either brush aside or ignore completely.

 

That, and dispersing deathballs sounds like something I'd constitute Support. Yes, you are shooting at a group of people. Tech can be pure offensive as well, doesn't mean it's not support.

 

But I *never* said Incin was a great support mech. I've stated that it fits the support role more than some other mechs, but not as well as more dedicated support mechs.

[comic_sans]

I'd call it support just because it isn't a closer.

[CounterlogicMan]

Fun factoids about the incinerator.

Most other mechs do around 1-1.6k damage before over heating. Depending on the weapon and heat gen. Incin with papa does 5k+ before over heating with saare charged and Mama/bby saare charged 4k+ before overheating. These are numbers not taking into account how easy it is to keep the incin firing forever. Or the very large aoe and fire rate of the saare. These stats take into account just firing without heat management. The numbers go up if you manage the heat generation on all mechs.

Of course these numbers would go down if surrounded by teammates. However, clever incin pilots will just focus on firing their secondary to keep their teammates firing, while neglecting his/her own primary. Increasing the teams damage before over heat while decreasing his/her own dps.

The charged saare has the same splash radius as the grenade launcher.

Uncharged saare 60dmg/ shot
Charged saare 80 dmg/shot

The heat given to players hit by the saare uncharged/charged 15/30. The saare fires 1.33 shots a second if fired continuously. capacity is 100 on all mechs. Ty flifang.

Papa does the same dps(104) as the smc(104.4) when spun up. But generates 5.5 heat per shot. When the smc only does .67 heat per shot. Smc 8.7 s/sec papa 8s/sec. More of a commentary on how powerful the smc is.

Saare has unlimited range.

Has second most armor. Not surprising since the mech has to expose itself the most. And it is fairly slow. Or is it?

Walk speed 17.25. Second fastest for c classes and faster than or as fast as some b classes. Has same boost speed as vanguard.

Its only true weakness compared to most other mechs is the 74 L fuel tank. And the c class hitbox.

Ability damage min 65 max 135 18m radius

Mirv xt does 165 damage and has a 3.75s reload. Get it the fuzzy bunny together g2 raider.

Thought yall should know some of these factoids.

It is pretty much sustain/suppression/support god. Incin needs some tuning.

Edited by CounterlogicMan, 11 August 2015 - 07:23 PM.

[Flifang]

The universal heat max for mechs I do believe is 100 exactly