539 replies to this topic

[n3onfx]

How about trying out reducing the delay before deciding to keep it as is or completely remove it? A couple test servers down the line with a delay cut in half could be used to compare it to the memory people have of no delay and the current state.

[?FTD? eXeon]

How about trying out reducing the delay before deciding to keep it as is or completely remove it? A couple test servers down the line with a delay cut in half could be used to compare it to the memory people have of no delay and the current state.

I'm pretty sure its been requested a few times before in this thread, many of us would love a test environment I'm sure. I've been for the reduction or removal since the day the patched it. I personally feel anyone who plays without the delay and understands how to use boosting in combat as an evasive maneuver will undoubtedly prefer the removal path though, just my opinion

[Kopra]

Different delays for classes?

 

A-class 0.1s

B-class 0.3s

C-class 0.5s

[Panzermanathod]

 

B)They have similar themes, they shoot weapons, and have a boosting mechanic that functions completely different in both games

 

D) Both ZoE and EU shoot lasers, have melee weapons, have a dodge mechanic which is more similar than the one between AC & HWK, seem to be rather good comparison between 4 games that have almost 0 gameplay similarities.

 

 

 

Again, I'm not saying that Hawken and AC are 1 to 1 exactly the same. But think about this...

 

If Armored Core had Hawken styled mobility, would the games really be that different? At this point AC still has more options than Hawken can give, but the gameplay still isn't so different that no comparisons can be made. Yes, AC has different systems but operate on somewhat similar principles.

 

Both of them largely operates on the concept of left and right/primary and secondary weapons. Both have heat management (although how heat is caused is completely different). Both used internal weaponry that is more limited than their standard weaponry. Both have weapons with some limitation (Heat vs Ammo). Both stress mobility's importance. While Hawken is an FPS, a good number of the older AC games have FPS modes as well.

 

But I know there's a lot more different between the two. But when all is said and done, I merely said that I could imagine shooting immediately after/during boosting is something I could relate to my experience in Armored Core originally.

[Hyginos]

Different delays for classes?

 

A-class 0.1s

B-class 0.3s

C-class 0.5s

 

That's actually a really interesting idea, though depending on how the game is coded it may be difficult to implement.

 

I really don't see why we couldn't just try removing/reducing the delay for a few weeks. If it turns out to be problematic just revert the change. It's not like the game will magically self annihilate if it turns out to be a poor mechanical change.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

I really don't see why we couldn't just try removing/reducing the delay for a few weeks. If it turns out to be problematic just revert the change. It's not like the game will magically self annihilate if it turns out to be a poor mechanical change.

 

You know all those posts where Josh talks about how difficult it is to restore the build envioronment and successfully rebuild the game from source code?

 

That's probably why this is problematic and tough to try.  Just a guess, and I could be a mile off...

[comic_sans]

Different delays for classes?

 

A-class 0.1s

B-class 0.3s

C-class 0.5s

 

Eh, this goes back to how all classes benefit from it.  I miss the lack of delay on my flak brawler more than anything, really, and your C cooldown time is just what it is now.  Being able to boost hop and flak to someone in a brawler is like a deadly battlefield twerk that gets your fat trunk all over their junk.

Edited by comic_sans, 25 April 2015 - 07:37 AM.

[Panzermanathod]

Yeah... I don't think those delays will be feasible. C Class gets the normal delay and A classes gets to shoot more often after boosting? You're just buffing A/B classes.

[Meraple]

Yeah... I don't think those delays will be feasible. C Class gets the normal delay and A classes gets to shoot more often after boosting? You're just buffing A/B classes.

I'm fairly sure A classes need some kind of buff atm.

 

(Not saying this is the correct buff or not, I'm personally not sure of the what and how.)

Edited by Meraple, 25 April 2015 - 08:19 AM.

[Panzermanathod]

I honestly don't see how A Classes in general need a buff. If you mean their low armor, that's because of their high speed. And, barring Technician, they certainly aren't lacking in offense.

[Meraple]

I honestly don't see how A Classes in general need a buff. If you mean their low armor, that's because of their high speed. And, barring Technician, they certainly aren't lacking in offense.

Mobility doesn't really matter too much if the enemy lands his shots.

Which is something someone with a good aim can do - or mostly, atleast.

[Kopra]

A Reaper can boost away from an Assault from CQC range for 10 seconds (if a Reaper's fuel tank even lasted that long) and still be in optimal range for Vulcan fire from the Assault (was boosting behind the Reaper). The speed difference isn't that big, really. Unless you are playing speed outlier mechs like Scout, Raider or Infil, everyone is kicking around the 30m/s (+- 5m/s) mark which don't make for big differences.

Edited by Kopra, 25 April 2015 - 09:57 AM.

[Panzermanathod]

Mobility doesn't really matter too much if the enemy lands his shots.

Which is something someone with a good aim can do - or mostly, atleast.

If the shots hit, they hit. Still, A Classes are better at chasing and are still faster and can dodge more often than other classes. Not to mention proper use of cover.

[?FTD? eXeon]

If the shots hit, they hit. Still, A Classes are better at chasing and are still faster and can dodge more often than other classes. Not to mention proper use of cover.

If the shots hit isn't a question against good players, the only people who struggle with A's are people who havent grasped how to utilize movement to counteract the turn rate cap. At the moment A's are not able to utilize the speed you mention in your post I quoted because they are forced to choose, shoot or live(by live I mean utilize boosts in combat). You can't stay fast enough and land shots against good players because you are forced to walk at snailspeed or fly at snail speed for .5 seconds which results in you losing any DPS race as well as hinder your ability to utilize your speed effectively.

 

If people are struggling with A mechs then there is a fundamental problem with their skill as an FPS player or their knowledge/ability to use this knowledge. I'd wager the problem is likely a lack of knowledge on how to utilize hawkens current movement system to make the turn rate cap less of a handicap.

 

Different delays for classes?

 

A-class 0.1s

B-class 0.3s

C-class 0.5s

I like this idea a lot, even suggested it when I first posted this thread! I'm not sure its honestly the best solution but, it would give more points to balance the mechs, whether that causes more problems than it fixes I dont know. Would be interesting to test nonetheless

[IareDave]

Different delays for classes?

A-class 0.1s
B-class 0.3s
C-class 0.5s

This is one of maybe a handful of good ideas I've seen on this forum. Kudos to you. Not to mention it fits in with the whole mech "immersion" that people seem to want so desperately, but more importantly could help even the playing field with this C dominate meta.

[Xacius]

Different delays for classes?

 

A-class 0.1s

B-class 0.3s

C-class 0.5s

 

That just reduces mobility potential on heavier mechs, which need as much as they can get.  It should be universal, imo.  That'd also make switching between classes easier for new players, as they won't have to re-learn timings.  

Edited by Xacius, 25 April 2015 - 04:30 PM.

[Panzermanathod]

If the shots hit isn't a question against good players, the only people who struggle with A's are people who havent grasped how to utilize movement to counteract the turn rate cap.

 

(((I'm not saying this to be rude, but you can't say A-Classes must be buffed because some people who play them haven't got used to them. )))

 

 

At the moment A's are not able to utilize the speed you mention in your post I quoted because they are forced to choose, shoot or live(by live I mean utilize boosts in combat).

 

(((Look at C Classes. At least other classes have a better chance of escaping. More often than not, unless the opponent is preoccupied with someone else or I get fortunate, running away in a C Class gets me shot down by a half decent player. Or 3. )))

 

You can't stay fast enough and land shots against good players because you are forced to walk at snailspeed

 

(((A Classes generally have the fastest walk speeds, plus the shortest dodge intervals.)))

 

or fly at snail speed for .5 seconds which results in you losing any DPS race as well as hinder your ability to utilize your speed effectively.

 

(((A Classes aren't supposed to out DPS everyone, they're supposed to outmaneuver everyone)))

 

If people are struggling with A mechs then there is a fundamental problem with their skill as an FPS player or their knowledge/ability to use this knowledge. I'd wager the problem is likely a lack of knowledge on how to utilize hawkens current movement system to make the turn rate cap less of a handicap.

 

(((If people are struggling with A Classes because they don't grasp mechanics it doesn't outright mean they must be buffed. Not all mechs are for everyone.)))

 

 

A Classes have their speed and their faster dodges. Giving them a shorter delay (and not C Classes) isn't balance. I've seen plenty of A Classes make use of cover and speed, ground and air, and dodge super quickly.

[MomOw]

I don't have the level to get what you guyz are talking about (currently ~1850MMR).

 

Delay after boosting is something that push to think before engaging and avoid rushing like a boar. It's something you learn and is quite satisfying when you get used to it.

 

I already imagine the mayhem of ~1500MMR servers without delay after boosting.

 

I also do agree that it restrains A-class mobility, but then again I don't think that adding suicide scout, and even more roflstomp of good scout players entering a lower level server, will be good.

 

Things I'd like to test if I could mod the game could be stuff like :

- re-introduce the delay cancel by jumping for A-class

xor

- remove the delay for primary weapons (much in a sim sense, but burst mech would benefit more from it, and no issue with G2A that has a spin delay for its weapons).

Edited by MomOw, 25 April 2015 - 05:31 PM.

[TheButtSatisfier]

That just reduces mobility potential on heavier mechs, which need as much as they can get.  It should be universal, imo.  That'd also make switching between classes easier for new players, as they won't have to re-learn timings.  

 

I agree - universal levels of reduction or removal of the delay altogether. Tiering the degree of delay in favor of the a's and b's effectively increases their combat mobility while leaving the c's hamstrung. If this is a change we want to make to enhance the overall gameplay, then I think we should do it evenly to all mechs.

 

I hate this thread because now I'm uncomfortably aware of the delay when I play. Off with it's head.

[Xacius]

I agree - universal levels of reduction or removal of the delay altogether. Tiering the degree of delay in favor of the a's and b's effectively increases their combat mobility while leaving the c's hamstrung. If this is a change we want to make to enhance the overall gameplay, then I think we should do it evenly to all mechs.

 

I hate this thread because now I'm uncomfortably aware of the delay when I play. Off with it's head.

 

You've seen the light.  #removethedelay

Edited by Xacius, 25 April 2015 - 05:24 PM.

[Panzermanathod]

Well, me I still work around the delay. It helps that I don't boost all the time. Because radar.

[Xacius]

I don't have the level to get what you guyz are talking about (currently ~1850MMR).

 

Delay after boosting is something that push to think before engaging and avoid rushing like a boar. It's something you learn and is quite satisfying when you get used to it.

 

I already imagine the mayhem of ~1500MMR servers without delay after boosting.

 

I also do agree that it restrains A-class mobility, but then again I don't think that adding suicide scout, and even more roflstomp of good scout players entering a lower level server, will be good.

 

Things I'd like to test if I could mod the game could be stuff like :

- re-introduce the delay cancel by jumping for A-class

xor

- remove the delay for primary weapons (much in a sim sense, but burst mech would benefit more from it, and no issue with G2A that has a spin delay for its weapons).

 

"Delay after boosting is something that push to think before engaging and avoid rushing like a boar. It's something you learn and is quite satisfying when you get used to it."

When you stop to think, you realize that there are no alternatives.  You must play it safe.  You can push forward and engage, but you know you're at a severe disadvantage if you do so.  That's the problem.  Its removal does not stop you from staying back and calculating your movements.  Players can do that regardless.  

 

"I also do agree that it restrains A-class mobility, but then again I don't think that adding suicide scout, and even more roflstomp of good scout players entering a lower level server, will be good."

Yeah, but stomps like that happen in B's and C's too.  I've smurfed, and playing Scout or Assault makes no difference.  It's the same destruction either way.  

 

"Things I'd like to test if I could mod the game could be stuff like: re-introduce the delay cancel by jumping for A-class"

As I've said before, a universal removal is the best solution.  The classes can be balanced properly by other means, but don't make actual movement mechanics vary (creates an unnecessary learning curve for new players that want to switch between classes).  

 

 

Well, me I still work around the delay. It helps that I don't boost all the time. Because radar.

 

That's great, but it doesn't solve the problem for the rest of us.  

 

 

 

How about trying out reducing the delay before deciding to keep it as is or completely remove it? A couple test servers down the line with a delay cut in half could be used to compare it to the memory people have of no delay and the current state.

 

The reason why I've been pushing for a complete removal is that the user is already penalized for boosting.  Even if boosting stops, they've still lost DPS equivalent to the time spent in boost.  Why increase it beyond that?  There's no point, imo.  I'm all for testing, but I figured I'd weigh in on that point.  

Edited by Xacius, 25 April 2015 - 08:19 PM.

[CraftyDus]

Was its removal deliberate, or incidental?

[LoC_TR]

Was its removal deliberate, or incidental?

Deliberate IIRC. I feel like i'm being trolled softly.

[Xacius]

Was its removal deliberate, or incidental?

Deliberate, but only because the devs wanted to prevent players from firing before their weapons had physically raised and locked into position.  If you knew what to look for, it looked funky, animation-wise, which was why they changed it.  

 

Fix the animations instead.  ffs

Edited by Xacius, 25 April 2015 - 08:22 PM.

[CraftyDus]

Deliberate IIRC. I feel like i'm being trolled softly.

Thanks, So much has happened in this time.
I couldn't remember.
Someone wanting to intentionally nerf movement is difficult for me to understand.

[CraftyDus]

Deliberate, but only because the devs wanted to prevent players from firing before their weapons had physically raised and locked into position.  If you knew what to look for, it looked funky, animation-wise, which was why they changed it.  
 
Fix the animations instead.  ffs

Ya killing the movement instead of working out the animation is an unfortunate intersection of OCD and laziness.

[Xacius]

Thanks, So much has happened in this time.
I couldn't remember.
Someone wanting to intentionally nerf movement is difficult for me to understand.

 

The old devs did it on numerous occasions, which is why I'm not surprised lol.  

[?FTD? eXeon]

(((I'm not saying this to be rude, but you can't say A-Classes must be buffed because some people who play them haven't got used to them. )))

I never once said that A's need to be buffed because people can hit them, I was pointing out that good players do not struggle to hit A mechs even when some of the best players utilize its speed to the best of their ability.

(((Look at C Classes. At least other classes have a better chance of escaping. More often than not, unless the opponent is preoccupied with someone else or I get fortunate, running away in a C Class gets me shot down by a half decent player. Or 3. )))

You have no clue what I'm even talking about with this comment, Im not talking about running away, Im talking about utilizing boosting in combat to evade attacks, while fighting. Running away against good players instantly assures your death unless its scout v brawler even then if theyre good youre still dead.

(((A Classes generally have the fastest walk speeds, plus the shortest dodge intervals.)))

This isnt even a coutner argument, this is just stating facts, Im guessing you think that because they have the fastest walk speed in the game that theyre fine walking, well theyre not. Boosting is the only way an A survives a fight if the enemy is any good. Dodge cooldowns being reduced are nice but again you die in an A if you're not constantly boosting.

(((A Classes aren't supposed to out DPS everyone, they're supposed to outmaneuver everyone)))

THANK YOU FOR UNDERSTAND THIS!!!! This is very true but, you still have to kill your opponent, and if you spend all your time trying to survive via boosting you cant exactly kill them with thruster exhaust fumes

(((If people are struggling with A Classes because they don't grasp mechanics it doesn't outright mean they must be buffed. Not all mechs are for everyone.)))

You mistook yet another of my comments, my comment meant players were struggling to kill A's because they were bad with movement or are just overall bad FPS players. Players are not struggling to play A mechs because they cant grasp the mechanics, if anything theyre struggling to play them because they are too flimsy and utilizing any advanced kind of movement means you cant kill your opponent without a lot of outplaying. Playing the ranged game is a viable option but, I'm an aggressive*^stupid* player and Im not a fan of using my S key, here lies my problem with the delay.

[StubbornPuppet]

Was its removal deliberate, or incidental?

I feel like you've recieved answers that skip past the point that the "weapon raise delay" was NOT the result of the original devs changing a game mechanic, but rather them fixing a bug that allowed players to skip the delay by jumping out of a boost.  There was a glitch in the game that allowed a players to bypass the weapon raise delay by hopping just a bit as they came out of boosting.  Since this was a bug/exploit, and the delay was completely intentional, the devs fixed it so that you could not exploit it any more.

[Panzermanathod]

That's great, but it doesn't solve the problem for the rest of us.  

It does. GIT USED TO IT.

 

But, seriously, I said that because you were all like YOU'VE SEEN THE LIGHT when someone said they were now annoyed with the delay.

 

 

You have no clue what I'm even talking about with this comment, Im not talking about running away, Im talking about utilizing boosting in combat to evade attacks, while fighting. Running away against good players instantly assures your death unless its scout v brawler even then if theyre good youre still ded.

 

(((I literally somehow missed that line several times. That said, when I saw shoot or live, I equated that as fight or flight.)))

 

(((A Classes generally have the fastest walk speeds, plus the shortest dodge intervals.)))

This isnt even a coutner argument, this is just stating facts,

 

(((I said this *specifically* because you said A-Classes walk at a snail's speed)))

 

(((If people are struggling with A Classes because they don't grasp mechanics it doesn't outright mean they must be buffed. Not all mechs are for everyone.)))

You mistook yet another of my comments, my comment meant players were struggling to kill A's because they were bad with movement or are just overall bad FPS players. Players are not struggling to play A mechs because they cant grasp the mechanics, if anything theyre struggling to play them because they are too flimsy and utilizing any advanced kind of movement means you cant kill your opponent without a lot of outplaying. Playing the ranged game is a viable option but, I'm an aggressive*^stupid* player and Im not a fan of using my S key, here lies my problem with the delay.

 

 

(((Fine, but the fact that A class mechs are low in armor should remain as such anyway. Having them have have the lowest delay is too much in their favor.)))

 

 

 

Oh and about your comment on "A Classes have to kill the enemies at some point", keep in mind that A Classes are best at hit and run for the most part, an above all, mobility. And most have weapons that other, slower mechs have anyway.  The A Class is fine as is. It's not like their weapons are overall weaker than other stuff other mechs can get.

 

 

As an aside, I am curious as to how boosting will help in actual battle if the delay was removed. Not the approach, not chasing, actual combat. I'm trying to play in my head how no delay helps in this regard.

[?FTD? eXeon]

Oh and about your comment on "A Classes have to kill the enemies at some point", keep in mind that A Classes are best at hit and run for the most part, an above all, mobility. And most have weapons that other, slower mechs have anyway.  The A Class is fine as is. It's not like their weapons are overall weaker than other stuff other mechs can get.

 

They do but what happens when you stop being a baby and actually push someone in an A? How do you intend to survive vs them with lower health and roughly the same DPS? A class is definitely underpowered in the current meta in comparison to B & C's because they are so heavily punished for utilizing their mobility(hello raise delay)

As an aside, I am curious as to how boosting will help in actual battle if the delay was removed. Not the approach, not chasing, actual combat. I'm trying to play in my head how no delay helps in this regard.

Boosting is used to make yourself much harder to hit, weaving in dodges you are capable of quickly changing your angle of attack on the enemy making it hard for them to track you with hit scan let alone lead a projectile capable of hitting you. How no delay helps in this regard is by allowing you to simultaneously reduce damage taken and return fire. Before you jump to conclusions on my first line of this paragraph, you do not evade all attacks but significantly reduce damage making it possible for an A class to fight a B class or if theyre good enough C's.

[PsychedelicGrass]

This thread.. >.>

[MomOw]

 

"Delay after boosting is something that push to think before engaging and avoid rushing like a boar. It's something you learn and is quite satisfying when you get used to it."

When you stop to think, you realize that there are no alternatives.  You must play it safe.  You can push forward and engage, but you know you're at a severe disadvantage if you do so.  That's the problem.  Its removal does not stop you from staying back and calculating your movements.  Players can do that regardless. 

I get that pushing is not really rewarding vs deathballs.

 

 

 

 

"I also do agree that it restrains A-class mobility, but then again I don't think that adding suicide scout, and even more roflstomp of good scout players entering a lower level server, will be good."

Yeah, but stomps like that happen in B's and C's too.  I've smurfed, and playing Scout or Assault makes no difference.  It's the same destruction either way. 

I'm frustrated the same way against scouts or assault stomping. when a good assault player comes I try to watch how it moves to get better, and I can land a TOW and a few SMC shots and maybe get an assist. When that players switch mech for a scout it becomes a pain nigh invicible.

 

 

"Things I'd like to test if I could mod the game could be stuff like: re-introduce the delay cancel by jumping for A-class"

As I've said before, a universal removal is the best solution.  The classes can be balanced properly by other means, but don't make actual movement mechanics vary (creates an unnecessary learning curve for new players that want to switch between classes).

 

 

'k I guess it has to be tested.

Edited by MomOw, 26 April 2015 - 03:03 AM.

[Panzermanathod]

 

They do but what happens when you stop being a baby and actually push someone in an A? How do you intend to survive vs them with lower health and roughly the same DPS? A class is definitely underpowered in the current meta in comparison to B & C's because they are so heavily punished for utilizing their mobility(hello raise delay)

 

(((I don't know what to say to you about this. I'm far from the best player but I've seen plenty of good A-Class users make good use of mobility. I don't see how the raise delay *specifically* hurts A Classes.

 

That being said, Reaper's a sniper, Tech is... tech, Scout is largely a burst mech so it should be used as such, Zerker has Ballistic Barrage making it a glass cannon, and Infil has stealth. I think they are fine in the right hands. Heck you even have people going "Scout is the weapon of choice for Smurfs".)))

 

 

Boosting is used to make yourself much harder to hit, weaving in dodges you are capable of quickly changing your angle of attack on the enemy making it hard for them to track you with hit scan let alone lead a projectile capable of hitting you. How no delay helps in this regard is by allowing you to simultaneously reduce damage taken and return fire. Before you jump to conclusions on my first line of this paragraph, you do not evade all attacks but significantly reduce damage making it possible for an A class to fight a B class or if theyre good enough C's.

 

(((The reason I'm having trouble visualizing this, largely, the fact that you can only start the boost  going forwards. I guess in high tier fights having extra HP would help if the opponent has really good aim, but given that you cannot shoot while boosting, and that you can only initiate a boost going forward, I'd need to see for myself how no raise delay actually helps in some considerable way when it comes to actual fighting.)))

[n3onfx]

 

Oh and about your comment on "A Classes have to kill the enemies at some point", keep in mind that A Classes are best at hit and run for the most part, an above all, mobility. And most have weapons that other, slower mechs have anyway.  The A Class is fine as is. It's not like their weapons are overall weaker than other stuff other mechs can get.

 

The thing is in higher level mmr servers where everybody has around the same aim and can land most if not close to all of their shots, A classes do have a harder time.

 

Mobility is great and all, but while you do your fancy little dance you are not shooting, and a a good B or C class will just walk backwards away from you so that you can't exploit the turn-cap rate. They literally just walk backwards and dodge your secondaries while unloading everything on you while you do your little dance, it's all it takes. Cover helps because of A class mobility, but there's nothing stopping the B or C class from retreating to the open while keeping his front to you.

 

What Exeon is trying to tell you is that the mobility you are making it to be such a big advantage doesn't matter because of the delay, you can jump and dodge and dance all you want but it's reducing your dps by a big amount while the B or C class doesn't have to do the same to win vs you in an A class.

 

Watch some streams from good players, you'll see they usually disengage while walking backwards and keeping the front of the mech towards the enemy, not by turning around and boosting in a straight line. I fail to see how A classes can exploit that with mobility.

Edited by n3onfx, 26 April 2015 - 04:53 AM.

[Grollourdo]

I don't usually boost, only to get somewhere quickly knowing there is no one but yeah I usually walk.... May be a habit from pred...

Tho since I play tech a lot I like to boost towards a woonded aly and what I do is hop over him or dodge around him right after boosting, positioning myself to use him as cover while keeping my sight on him to heal.

[?FTD? eXeon]

 

 

They do but what happens when you stop being a baby and actually push someone in an A? How do you intend to survive vs them with lower health and roughly the same DPS? A class is definitely underpowered in the current meta in comparison to B & C's because they are so heavily punished for utilizing their mobility(hello raise delay)

 

(((I don't know what to say to you about this. I'm far from the best player but I've seen plenty of good A-Class users make good use of mobility. I don't see how the raise delay *specifically* hurts A Classes.

 

That being said, Reaper's a sniper, Tech is... tech, Scout is largely a burst mech so it should be used as such, Zerker has Ballistic Barrage making it a glass cannon, and Infil has stealth. I think they are fine in the right hands. Heck you even have people going "Scout is the weapon of choice for Smurfs".)))

 

 

Boosting is used to make yourself much harder to hit, weaving in dodges you are capable of quickly changing your angle of attack on the enemy making it hard for them to track you with hit scan let alone lead a projectile capable of hitting you. How no delay helps in this regard is by allowing you to simultaneously reduce damage taken and return fire. Before you jump to conclusions on my first line of this paragraph, you do not evade all attacks but significantly reduce damage making it possible for an A class to fight a B class or if theyre good enough C's.

 

(((The reason I'm having trouble visualizing this, largely, the fact that you can only start the boost  going forwards. I guess in high tier fights having extra HP would help if the opponent has really good aim, but given that you cannot shoot while boosting, and that you can only initiate a boost going forward, I'd need to see for myself how no raise delay actually helps in some considerable way when it comes to actual fighting.)))

 

 

(((I don't know what to say to you about this. I'm far from the best player but I've seen plenty of good A-Class users make good use of mobility. I don't see how the raise delay *specifically* hurts A Classes.

I dont think that this delay specifically hurts A's, I do however think this delay hurts A's more than other classes due to their nature of utilizing mobility as defense and that mobility they're using for defense is reducing their dps capabilities, whereas n3onfx so kindly wrote B's or C's do not need to utilize boosting in combat because they know they're going to win the DPS race.

 

(((The reason I'm having trouble visualizing this, largely, the fact that you can only start the boost  going forwards. I guess in high tier fights having extra HP would help if the opponent has really good aim, but given that you cannot shoot while boosting, and that you can only initiate a boost going forward, I'd need to see for myself how no raise delay actually helps in some considerable way when it comes to actual fighting.)))

Yes, you do boost in a straight line but you do this at an angle from the opponent, using dodging to readjust aim or just quickly turning your mouse since while boosting you do not turn all that well . "if the opponent has really good aim" is not something I really question when Im in a server of players anywhere near my MMR +-200 to 400, most players have little problem hitting most A's(i know im being generous here.) 

Here's a clip that works pretty well for this, dont hate on my sick editing skills with paint okay.....

At :30 and at :44 i would have had to wait .5 seconds longer in both cases, probably a little less than .5 seconds longer but even little while walking is all people need to take half or more of your life away in an A

 

 

 

now I know its much slower when this was recorded but on the fact that players have good aim, look at how well 14515415164145 tracks me with an EOC at ~:07 and ~:57

Edited by Exeon, 26 April 2015 - 06:39 AM.

[Silverfire]

It deliberately enforces defensive game play, I feel. It hurts those who want to go on the offensive.

[Grollourdo]

wait a minute ..... if we reduce or take away the delay, wouldnt that also kinda indirectly nerf the raider's ability? XD idk