539 replies to this topic

[TheButtSatisfier]

What good is wisdom if you don't share it?

 

Not very good if someone is apparently too stupid to understand it

[TheButtSatisfier]

What good is wisdom if you don't share it?

 

Not very good if the targeted audience is too stupid to understand it

 

This is what happens when you refresh twice, don't see your response, post again, and see it immediately

Edited by TheButtSatisfier, 22 April 2015 - 01:30 PM.

[AsianJoyKiller]

Not very good if someone is apparently too stupid to understand it

It's not always for the benefit of the stupid person. Lots of people besides the stupid person read those posts.

 

As such, if one party is willing to provide extensive evidence and explanations for why their side of the argument is the stronger, and the other party does nothing but faff about spouting hot air, it helps convince more people to agree with the first party's argument. And that, of course, give more support for pushing changes in that direction.

Edited by AsianJoyKiller, 22 April 2015 - 01:32 PM.

[Nept]

If stupidity limits the conversation, then what's the benefit of writing essay-length rebuttals?

 

The point isn't to convince the idiot to adopt your perspective.  The point is to convince everyone else that the idiot is an idiot.

 

*Edit* Didn't notice that AJK had already explained in a (somewhat) nicer fashion.

Edited by Nept, 22 April 2015 - 01:56 PM.

[Daronicus]

Hey let's be civil, guys.

[TheButtSatisfier]

It's not always for the benefit of the stupid person. Lots of people besides the stupid person read those posts.

 

As such, if one party is willing to provide extensive evidence and explanations for why their side of the argument is the stronger, and the other party does nothing but faff about spouting hot air, it helps convince more people to agree with the first party's argument. And that, of course, give more support for pushing changes in that direction.

 

This makes sense, and it's what I figured was the case. I regret my earlier replies in this thread because I should have just said this from the outset:

 

I believe that if your goal is to make a point to convince a wide audience then you should do it without the vitriol that I've seen in many of these responses. If we're trying to attract more players to keep funding this game, then a new player looking at this thread may just see a number of prominent players repeating the things that they've already said with increasing levels of aggravation. It ends up looking like a bunch of 2400+ MMR players frantically pulling their pants down and circle jerking with glee all over the open mouth of some fuzzy bunny who doesn't know when to stop.

 

Look, I recognize that nobody on this forum is expected to be rigidly formal, polite, and patient with every post. I'm not, I probably won't be in the future, whatever. But effective arguments only need to be made once on paper; it's attacks on someone's character which need repeating. Eventually it's the latter that almost always ends up dominating the conversation. Case and point: now we're trying to convince everyone else that the idiot is an idiot. I also find that amusing, but somehow it also rubs me the wrong way. I suppose I'm just upset that high-level players get the same enjoyment from fuzzy bunnyng with people as I do, and I was hoping they wouldn't be assholes like I am. I don't like company.

 

Anyways, I feel like a fuzzy bunny for having typed this. I'm going to go change my tampon.

[Superkamikazee]

This is a silly thread, and the attempts at using "data" to defend ones argument even more entertaining. This is an entirely subjective argument about feel. The current delay can feel clunky, and to a point "slow down" engagements. Is that a good or bad thing, subjective. Throwing some synthetic statistics around won't  prove anything no matter how much you believe it will. Personally the delay is one of the few things left that makes Hawken feel "mechy" and 'weighty".  Removing the delay will, no matter how you slice it, speed up engagements and speed up combat. I feel that will make the mechs feel even more plasticy than they already do, and push Hawken more towards just being an arena shooter with unlimited ammo, and overheating weapons. 

 

Is the game fast enough the way it is? Does the game need to be faster? Is the skill ceiling need to be higher, lower? That's what this really boils down to, a bunch of opinions about something subjective, feel. 

[Xacius]

This makes sense, and it's what I figured was the case. I regret my earlier replies in this thread because I should have just said this from the outset:

 

I believe that if your goal is to make a point to convince a wide audience then you should do it without the vitriol that I've seen in many of these responses. If we're trying to attract more players to keep funding this game, then a new player looking at this thread may just see a number of prominent players repeating the things that they've already said with increasing levels of aggravation. It ends up looking like a bunch of 2400+ MMR players frantically pulling their pants down and circle jerking with glee all over the open mouth of some fuzzy bunny who doesn't know when to stop.

 

Look, I recognize that nobody on this forum is expected to be rigidly formal, polite, and patient with every post. I'm not, I probably won't be in the future, whatever. But effective arguments only need to be made once on paper; it's attacks on someone's character which need repeating. Eventually it's the latter that almost always ends up dominating the conversation. Case and point: now we're trying to convince everyone else that the idiot is an idiot. I also find that amusing, but somehow it also rubs me the wrong way. I suppose I'm just upset that high-level players get the same enjoyment from fuzzy bunnyng with people as I do, and I was hoping they wouldn't be assholes like I am. I don't like company.

 

Anyways, I feel like a fuzzy bunny for having typed this. I'm going to go change my tampon.

It's hard to have a constructive discussion when the opposing side is practically standing there with their fingers in their ears, yelling "LALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU, BTW YOU'RE WRONG"

 

You can't honestly expect people to respond positively to that type of behavior, can you?  

 

There's potential for discussion here, but it takes two participants to make that happen.   I'm still waiting for someone to draft an adequate response.  Until then, I'm going to enjoy the shitshow.  

Edited by Xacius, 22 April 2015 - 07:37 PM.

[Xacius]

This is a silly thread, and the attempts at using "data" to defend ones argument even more entertaining. This is an entirely subjective argument about feel. The current delay can feel clunky, and to a point "slow down" engagements. Is that a good or bad thing, subjective. Throwing some synthetic statistics around won't  prove anything no matter how much you believe it will. Personally the delay is one of the few things left that makes Hawken feel "mechy" and 'weighty".  Removing the delay will, no matter how you slice it, speed up engagements and speed up combat. I feel that will make the mechs feel even more plasticy than they already do, and push Hawken more towards just being an arena shooter with unlimited ammo, and overheating weapons. 

 

Is the game fast enough the way it is? Does the game need to be faster? Is the skill ceiling need to be higher, lower? That's what this really boils down to, a bunch of opinions about something subjective, feel. 

 

"Personally the delay is one of the few things left that makes Hawken feel "mechy" and 'weighty". "

There are many other ways to enhance the "mechy" feel of the game.  Believe me, I miss the old Open Beta feel.  A redesigned HUD (i.e. the old one), a dynamic approach to sound/environments, and more clever maps would really alter the feel of the game.  I played with the delay bypass for 6 months. Personally, it only served to increase my immersion.  It's hard to explain, but being able to bypass it gave me greater control, and therefore greater focus.  

 

I see no downsides to removing the delay.  I don't believe that its removal would significantly alter the mech-feel of the game.  Even if it does, its balance-related implications are too significant to ignore.  

 

"... and push Hawken more towards just being an arena shooter with unlimited ammo, and overheating weapons." 

...? Hawken is, and always has been, an Arena shooter with unlimited ammo and overheating weapons.  What's your point? lol

 

In terms of combat speed, the delay wouldn't necessarily make fights shorter/longer.  With no delay, we'll most likely see more players boosting in combat as it wouldn't be so fuzzy bunnyng detrimental (thereby temporarily increasing their speed/survivability).  I'd wager that, if anything, TTK would increase in battles between players that utilized boosting and dodging properly.  

[Panzermanathod]

Removing the delay would mean the Raiders would have to be retooled, ability-wise. There's little difference between Boosting and shooting and boosting then shooting immediately after stopping before boosting again.

[comic_sans]

Removing the delay would mean the Raiders would have to be retooled, ability-wise. There's little difference between Boosting and shooting and boosting then shooting immediately after stopping before boosting again.

 

It's still valid if you use reflak, I think.

[Xacius]

Removing the delay would mean the Raiders would have to be retooled, ability-wise. There's little difference between Boosting and shooting and boosting then shooting immediately after stopping before boosting again.

 

The speed boost more than makes up for it.  Additionally, boosting/stopping/boosting is a hitched movement process.  You don't retain full boost speed during that process.  

Edited by Xacius, 22 April 2015 - 10:57 PM.

[Kopra]

Animations wise... go to 3rd person view, dodge left and shoot with your right weapon (or the other way round). I see nobody complaining about that.

[Nept]

 

 

I suppose I'm just upset that high-level players get the same enjoyment from fuzzy bunnyng with people as I do, and I was hoping they wouldn't be assholes like I am. I don't like company.

 

Anyways, I feel like a fuzzy bunny for having typed this. I'm going to go change my tampon.

 

If you read through this thread (or through almost any thread where similar discussions are being had), you'll notice that the high-level players typically adopt the tone taken by those they're addressing.  If someone is expressing dissenting opinions with civility, I'll respond similarly.  If someone's behaving like a loud-mouthed dolt, however, I'll be one of the first to inform them of that fact. 

 

I prefer directness IRL, as well - albeit with the edges smoothed slightly through charm and humour.  That being said, I've found that people are far less likely to behave like loud-mouthed dolts to my face. 

 

The nice thing about the internet, of course, is that you can simply close any conversations that you find distressing.

Edited by Nept, 23 April 2015 - 12:04 AM.

[Superkamikazee]

How much scrubs could a scrubchuck scrubs if a scrubchuck could chuck scrubs?

 
 

Signed,
 
The group of players who are much better than you.  At every shooter in existence.

 
Would you prefer us peasants to bow down now and kiss your feet, or later? You guys are really just a bunch elitist little brats, grow the fuzzy bunny up, you're good at a video game, neato. Your word doesn't automatically become some sacred scripture everyone else should worship.
 

"Personally the delay is one of the few things left that makes Hawken feel "mechy" and 'weighty". "
There are many other ways to enhance the "mechy" feel of the game.  Believe me, I miss the old Open Beta feel.  A redesigned HUD (i.e. the old one), a dynamic approach to sound/environments, and more clever maps would really alter the feel of the game.  I played with the delay bypass for 6 months. Personally, it only served to increase my immersion.  It's hard to explain, but being able to bypass it gave me greater control, and therefore greater focus.  
 
I see no downsides to removing the delay.  I don't believe that its removal would significantly alter the mech-feel of the game.  Even if it does, its balance-related implications are too significant to ignore.

There's no weight to the game, and every position you back further removes any weight left to the games mechs. Speed was increased, AC added, TTK lowered, dodge fuel consumption removed, the list goes on. There was some "simminess" before a lot of those changes, mechs took a lot of damage, fuel required more management, AC and speed increases made the feel of the mechs more plasticy (TTK as well).
 

"... and push Hawken more towards just being an arena shooter with unlimited ammo, and overheating weapons." 
...? Hawken is, and always has been, an Arena shooter with unlimited ammo and overheating weapons.  What's your point? lol

You missed the point. I never said it wasn't an arena shooter, I'm suggesting that all that it will be is an arena shooter with unlimited ammo and overheating. Hawken was first and foremost a mech FPS, that played more like an arena shooter vs what traditionally mech games were expected to be. It was still slow (by todays Hawken standards), mobility was grounded (now it's very similar to COD AW with the AC), and TTK is a joke. There's very little indication that you're piloting a mech besides the turn rate cap, and the HUD. The mechs feel like tin cans, not some lumbering behemoths. Removing the delay will further remove that sense of being in a lumbering machine.
 

In terms of combat speed, the delay wouldn't necessarily make fights shorter/longer.  With no delay, we'll most likely see more players boosting in combat as it wouldn't be so fuzzy bunnyng detrimental (thereby temporarily increasing their speed/survivability).  I'd wager that, if anything, TTK would increase in battles between players that utilized boosting and dodging properly.

So how does boosting into combat not increase the games speed, and increase TTK? Time to engage would be reduced there by shortening engagements, and forget about retreats. I'm of the opinion the games movement speed is too high as it is, any proposals to increase that speed are insane at this point.

[hoghead]

[Silverfire]

Looking at a tank, you'd expect it to be very heavily armored. It is. Let it face another tank though, with similar weapons, its weapons become less of an advantage. As a matter of fact, both tanks are equipped to take out other tanks, making the armor less useful, but still useful.

Apply the same to mechs and the "tanky" feel is quite meh.

[Kopra]

Looking at a tank, you'd expect it to be very heavily armored. It is. Let it face another tank though, with similar weapons, its weapons become less of an advantage. As a matter of fact, both tanks are equipped to take out other tanks, making the armor less useful, but still useful.
Apply the same to mechs and the "tanky" feel is quite meh.

A possible solution: make weapons not sound like peashooters. Even tin cans can resist them somewhat!

[Nept]

 
 
 
Would you prefer us peasants to bow down now and kiss your feet, or later? You guys are really just a bunch elitist little brats, grow the fuzzy bunny up, you're good at a video game, neato. Your word doesn't automatically become some sacred scripture everyone else should worship.

 

Might want to peruse his (the person we were addressing) post before you have a spazz-fest.  Reading and context comprehension are important components of being a grown-up.

 

 

 

You missed the point. I never said it wasn't an arena shooter, I'm suggesting that all that it will be is an arena shooter with unlimited ammo and overheating. Hawken was first and foremost a mech FPS, that played more like an arena shooter vs what traditionally mech games were expected to be. It was still slow (by todays Hawken standards), mobility was grounded (now it's very similar to COD AW with the AC), and TTK is a joke. There's very little indication that you're piloting a mech besides the turn rate cap, and the HUD. The mechs feel like tin cans, not some lumbering behemoths. Removing the delay will further remove that sense of being in a lumbering machine.

 

As for this part, I've covered it before: https://community.pl...age-4#entry8717

 

Specifically,

To me, Hawken feels much more mech than arena shooter.  Although there's an experience/relativity component inherent in these types of conversations, I see Hawken as having a number of "mech properties" asides from turn-rate cap.  They have two independently firing weapons, for example.  There are different mech classes with different armour levels, movement capabilities and speeds - even within an overarching grouping (A's, B's, C's).  The mechs experience acceleration, whereby directional shifts while walking take time (although not so much time that it turns cumbersome, a la Ascension).  The mechs can boost forward to travel more quickly.  They can thrust themselves through the air (and contrary to some players, I feel as though the movement speeds through the air are quite slow and "mech-like").  And even now, the mechs have a considerably higher TTK than would be present in arena shooters.  Simply put, I feel as though I'm piloting a relatively fast mech.

 

To me, there are massive differences between that sort of gameplay and Hawken - even if both games possess more movement than has typically been seen within the shooter genre (which I think is a great thing).

 

I think that the turn-rate cap is an important component of Hawken, and I think it interacts with the aforementioned elements to produce a faster-paced mech game.  And while people certainly will have their notions about what is/isn't a mech game, I think that Hawken does a good job matching the game's original "vision".

 

 

Also, claiming that Hawken is "very similar to CoD:AW" is a ridiculous oversimplification which makes me question your ability to participate in these sorts of discussions.  It's simply not.  Both games allow players to dodge in the air.  The dodges look, feel, and act very differently.  End of comparison.

[Superkamikazee]

Might want to peruse his (the person we were addressing) post before you have a spazz-fest.  Reading and context comprehension are important components of being a grown-up.

 
 And stooping to that same level is very grown up? I don't care what the context is, it makes you look snobby and immature. Stop pretending to be an adult, and act like one.
 
 

Also, claiming that Hawken is "very similar to CoD:AW" is a ridiculous oversimplification which makes me question your ability to participate in these sorts of discussions.  It's simply not.  Both games allow players to dodge in the air.  The dodges look, feel, and act very differently.  End of comparison.

My cod reference was a snide remark, and pointing out that both have nearly identical gameplay mechanics (air movement). They function a bit differently, but both are essentially jet packs that can dash in directions.

[AsianJoyKiller]

 
 My cod reference was a snide remark, and pointing out that both have nearly identical gameplay mechanics (air movement). They function a bit differently, but both are essentially jet packs that can dash in directions.

By that logic, then the air movement in Tribes is the same as Hawken. Global Agenda is also the same. Titanfall is the same. Earth Defense Force is the same. Evolve is the same. I'm sorry, but that claim is such a wildly inaccurate generalization it's completely mind-boggling. You've ignored major differences in mechanics, cherry picking just to make a point. And if you have to cherry pick to make a point, it means you don't actually have one.

By the way, you want people to stop treating you snobby and immature, maybe you shouldn't be doing the same to others. And mark my words, saying things like "Stop pretending to be an adult, and act like one." is very snobby and immature.

"Do unto others" and all that jazz.

[Superkamikazee]

By the way, you want people to stop treating you snobby and immature, maybe you shouldn't be doing the same to others. And mark my words, saying things like "Stop pretending to be an adult, and act like one." is very snobby and immature.

"Do unto others" and all that jazz.

 

Calling it like I see it. Tired of this elitist attitude around here, it's sickening. 

[Silverfire]

Mature != elitist

[TheButtSatisfier]

It's hard to have a constructive discussion when the opposing side is practically standing there with their fingers in their ears, yelling "LALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU, BTW YOU'RE WRONG"

 

You can't honestly expect people to respond positively to that type of behavior, can you?  

 

Yep, I can "honestly expect" that. Like I said in my post, I don't expect it to be the norm. But there are plenty of interpersonal skills which involve maturely communicating with people who don't agree with you in an immature manner.

[Daronicus]

For what it's worth, I agree with most of what Nept and Xacius say on any given point. I like and respect them both as players and people, and I share the opinion that higher-level players generally have a better idea of balance and the effect changes will have on game flow.

That said, if there's a less effective way of making your point (in the sense of bringing others to your side) than 'I'm better than you at the game and therefore you don't know what you're talking about,' then I haven't seen it. And regardless of how they intend it (worth noting that they're pretty sarcastic people in my experience so some of what they say should be taken tongue-in-cheek), it's definitely how it comes off.

[Superkamikazee]

For what it's worth, I agree with most of what Nept and Xacius say on any given point. I like and respect them both as players and people, and I share the opinion that higher-level players generally have a better idea of balance and the effect changes will have on game flow.

That said, if there's a less effective way of making your point (in the sense of bringing others to your side) than 'I'm better than you at the game and therefore you don't know what you're talking about,' then I haven't seen it. And regardless of how they intend it (worth noting that they're pretty sarcastic people in my experience so some of what they say should be taken tongue-in-cheek), it's definitely how it comes off.

 

Right but you're missing the "CONTEXT", it's all about the "CONTEXT". The context is what makes it mature.

Edited by Superkamikazee, 23 April 2015 - 07:09 AM.

[AsianJoyKiller]

You know what else is mature?

 

Staying on topic.

[Daronicus]

Just ignore this one :P

Edited by Daronicus, 23 April 2015 - 09:18 AM.

[Daronicus]

You know what else is mature?

Staying on topic.

How people approach various subjects in the interest of making points clearly with the least fallout is always on topic, imo. Sometimes these discussions need a little talk to bridge the gap or they run the risk of becoming incredibly personal attacks or worse: discussions about what constitutes ad hominem and strawmen.

[Nept]

For what it's worth, I agree with most of what Nept and Xacius say on any given point. I like and respect them both as players and people, and I share the opinion that higher-level players generally have a better idea of balance and the effect changes will have on game flow.

That said, if there's a less effective way of making your point (in the sense of bringing others to your side) than 'I'm better than you at the game and therefore you don't know what you're talking about,' then I haven't seen it. And regardless of how they intend it (worth noting that they're pretty sarcastic people in my experience so some of what they say should be taken tongue-in-cheek), it's definitely how it comes off.

 

Personally, I think that the elitism nicely balances the whiny special snowflakes.

 

In all seriousness, I respond in kind.  You'll notice that the people to whom those sorts of replies are directed always bring up the expertise question themselves - and always in a jackass way.  I make strong arguments and don't pay much mind to the feelings of those who select for themselves the rude/immature route.  And no, I certainly don't mind descending to that level through blunt and honest replies!

 

I don't see my "job" on these forums as attempting to convert complaining players to my perspective.  Typically, the people demanding that the game's skill ceiling be decreased are already beyond help.  When they flail around in anger, they hurt their legitimacy more than my responses hurt mine - imo, anyway. 

[Daronicus]

Personally, I think that the elitism nicely balances the whiny special snowflakes.

In all seriousness, I respond in kind. You'll notice that the people to whom those sorts of replies are directed always bring up the expertise question themselves - and always in a jackass way. I make strong arguments and don't pay much mind to the feelings of those who select for themselves the rude/immature route. And no, I certainly don't mind descending to that level through blunt and honest replies!

I don't see my "job" on these forums as attempting to convert complaining players to my perspective. Typically, the people demanding that the game's skill ceiling be decreased are already beyond help. When they flail around in anger, they hurt their legitimacy more than my responses hurt mine - imo, anyway.

Fair enough.

Edit: I guess the important thing to remember is that not everyone wants any given game to be the most competitive. So what you or I might perceive as lowering the skill ceiling, they view as preserving a game's feel. That we don't agree on what that feel should be doesn't necessarily make them wrong, just that we want different things from our games. Hawken has the virtue and curse of appealing to two very different demographics, and there certainly is a line it's balancing on. Speed up the game too much and it loses a lot of what makes it unique. Don't speed it up enough and it's super boring (imo).

Ultimately, everybody just wants a game that they enjoy playing sort of thing.

Edited by Daronicus, 23 April 2015 - 09:17 AM.

[?FTD? eXeon]

So besides the fact that removing the delay would make aggressive plays a bit easier to pull of in a game with a very clear defensive meta, make dancing more viable in firefights instead of the snoozefest dps races we have now, allow faster/safer corner peaking which would help burst weapons, does anyone have some more positive effects of the removal of the delay?

Also, still looking for even a single negative side to this change, admittedly the last option could be seen as a possible problem but, even when we were abusing the jump-the-delay funbug everyone was still using sustain, iirc.

[Daronicus]

So besides the fact that removing the delay would make aggressive plays a bit easier to pull of in a game with a very clear defensive meta, make dancing more viable in firefights instead of the snoozefest dps races we have now, allow faster/safer corner peaking which would help burst weapons, does anyone have some more positive effects of the removal of the delay?

Also, still looking for even a single negative side to this change, admittedly the last option could be seen as a possible problem but, even when we were abusing the jump-the-delay funbug everyone was still using sustain, iirc.

To play devil's advocate:  it makes aggression easier and less punished.  Some perceive this to be a bad thing.

 

To refute that point, I don't think what this game needs is less aggression.  We have enough reasons to sit and take potshots until the "right" opportunity without making closing distances even harder.  So I guess that's another positive effect.  Closing distances becomes safer and more rewarding.

[Nept]

Fair enough.

Edit: I guess the important thing to remember is that not everyone wants any given game to be the most competitive. So what you or I might perceive as lowering the skill ceiling, they view as preserving a game's feel. That we don't agree on what that feel should be doesn't necessarily make them wrong, just that we want different things from our games. Hawken has the virtue and curse of appealing to two very different demographics, and there certainly is a line it's balancing on. Speed up the game too much and it loses a lot of what makes it unique. Don't speed it up enough and it's super boring (imo).

Ultimately, everybody just wants a game that they enjoy playing sort of thing.

 

Definitely.  I try to preempt further skill ceiling decreases while pushing for the occasional increase.  Those aims frequently place me in conflict with community members who are pushing for slower speeds - for "feel" or otherwise.  Some of those people regularly have pleasant conversations with me.  Some of them do not.  Those in the latter category are there because of the aforementioned "respond in kind" policy.

 

One of the reasons that I don't mind pushing people toward angry responses is precisely what you mentioned: everybody wants a game that they enjoy playing.  Unfortunately there are so very few games with high skill ceilings and decent maneuverability options.  Personally, I value the existence of those games more than I do good relationships with every community member.  If I thought that those pushing (with vitriol or immaturity) for decreased skill ceilings were worth addressing pleasantly/could be converted to my perspective, I might try it.  Unfortunately, that hasn't been my experience in 10+ years of competitive gaming.

 

I am glad, though, that there are nice people like you!

[DieselCat]

The point isn't to convince the idiot to adopt your perspective.  The point is to convince everyone else that the idiot is an idiot.

 

*Edit* Didn't notice that AJK had already explained in a (somewhat) nicer fashion.

 

Why do you feel the need to always be insulting toward people that have a different point of view than you own...really sad.

 

*+

[Nept]

I appreciate your compassion!

[CraftyDus]

You know what else is mature?

 

Staying on topic.

 

[IareDave]

 

Is the game fast enough the way it is? Does the game need to be faster? Is the skill ceiling need to be higher, lower? That's what this really boils down to, a bunch of opinions about something subjective, feel. 

The fact that you feel people want the delay reduced to speed up the game speaks volumes for your inability to understand what we actually want. We want the game to be less of a DPS race and more of a strategic and skill based shooter, we want aggresion to not be shafted by the fact that kiting is so ridiculously effective, we want the game to have more movement options and ways to turn around situations that seem completely dire through risk & reward evasion techniques - ultimately we want this game to succeed or else we wouldn't give a damn about wasting our time in this thread. There are imbalances in the game and, before you spew out your ignorance ie. elitist scum! understand that there are players in this thread who have FAR more experience than you. 

 

Tl:dr Removing the delay isn't to speed up the game, its to balance the fuzzy bunnyng game. 

[Superkamikazee]

There are other ways to balance sustain. And your post still doesn't  explain how removing the delay, which the word by definition is to slow something done, won't speed up combat. 

[PoopSlinger]

There are other ways to balance sustain. And your post still doesn't  explain how removing the delay, which the word by definition is to slow something done, won't speed up combat. 

  It does speed up combat.  Its also just bettar.  Trust me, it might even be a lot better.