43 replies to this topic

[Draigun]

 

HAWKEN: A Technician Overhaul & Revision

 

Introduction

Healing is a paramount aspect to playing the game. There are currently multiple ways to regain your HP. They are: repair orb, self-repair, internals, and the Technician mech. The means of obtaining any source to heal from is rather easy throughout all game modes. If the situation is truly ideal, regaining health can be done while in the middle of a battle. Due to there being so little ways to obtain a healing source, it�s usually prudent to continually find opportunities to heal, and at the right time. Otherwise, you�ll probably start taking on the front lines of an enemy assault due to a bad position of self-repair, or reduce healing potential through a badly placed health orb. The amount of focus required to manage your health is all the same to placing decently timed shots on an enemy. While not often seen on the front lines, an effective way of healing increases your chances of winning immensely. It�s such a simple concept to understand in the game, but execution is everything.

 

 

The Problem: The Technician

There is only one mech in the game that has the ability to heal others without them needing to do anything, and that�s the Technician. The Technician is notorious for creating and/or reinforcing lopsided matches. Why is this the case? Before delving into this point, let me iterate on a very important statement: I have never used the Technician in any competitive/non-competitive match since day one. However, because this game has been around for some time, and I�ve certainly had a generous amount of time to play, I�ve taken notice to some of the shortcomings of Hawken�s current balance patch. The Technician�s current state as of this patch (1.5.3) is, to say the least, undesirable, perhaps even unplayable, to both the pilot and participant encountering it on the battlefield.

That being said, I believe there are prominent problems associated with using and playing with a Technician:

• The healing throughput�or amount�based on current gameplay mechanics is exorbitant

• Rewards defensive gameplay too much in any situation

• There are playstyles that are at a grey boundary between offensive and defensive tactics

  • To further reinforce this point, each class has a speciality and focus in the form of a strategy. The Technician can bypass this unique aspect by becoming a hybrid damage dealer while possessing indirect damage mitigation through the act of healing

• Dumbed down playstyle that does not promote Hawken�s flawless movement and strategy potential

• A skewed and inaccurate score of 50 percent or higher than top is usually seen

 

The Solution: An Extensive Overhaul

In order to bring the Technician to a more desirable state, it�s going to require an overhaul to the mech itself. However, it would probably be easier to just remove the Technician (Tech) from the game. Even so, this mech brings such a unique playstyle to the game. This should be cherished; but not at it�s current state. Even though technical limitations shouldn�t be an issue to remove the Tech, a revision to it should be done instead due to the aforementioned reasons. Currently, the Tech is a game changing mech. This shouldn�t be the case, but just like many other archetypes of mechs, it is. Ideally, it would be best to bring down the drastic difference in power through a well implemented balance pass. It goes without saying that any change would need to be carefully examined to remove any inconsistencies of power when comparing with old and newer revisions.

The Solution: Examined

Currently, the Technician�s ability is too powerful. Some plausible iterations of the ability were in the form of a more spammable, less powerful approach. However, these iterations could have rewarded defensive gameplay even more, which is not what this game needs at the moment. The Technician should have its global healing amount reduced to offset the intolerable amount of consistent healing, which seems to promote a defensive and rather dull playstyle a bit too much. Its ability, Amplification, should be adjusted based on the game�s current balance pass, while still establishing headroom to respond to the direction the game is heading. As it stands, the cooldown is too long, and the amount amplified is too much. The ability should improve the high risk, high reward mindset, while still maintaining a playstyle that�ll involve the Tech more with its surroundings. An ability revision is most likely a step in the right direction here.

 

Possible iterations are in the form of this list:

 

Spoiler

 

Justification for the changes are in red. Numbers are intentionally arbitrary to allow for better discussion.

• General

  • Reduce the XP and score gained from healing with Helix Repair Torch

    • The XP and score gained from healing has been notoriously inaccurate. This change would remove the skewed information on the scoreboard.

  • While Helix Repair Torch is locked onto a friendly target, increase the healing rate by x amount of % (15%?)

    • This change rewards a more focused playstyle, while reducing the healing throughput for becoming a battle-tech. It�s still possible to become a battle-tech, just that this change will remove the grey boundary between the battle-tech and a full fledged Technician.

• Ability Redesign

  • Cooldown lasts for x amount of seconds (35-45?)

    • The current cooldown is sitting at 75 seconds. Realistically, you will only use this ability once before wiping or dying. I think changing the pace through altering the cooldown is a decent way to achieve a different playstyle altogether.

  • Effect lasts for 10 seconds

    • The duration of the ability certainly matters, but less so for this revision. 10 seconds is probably the sweet spot for the relative duration of any battle. There is little headroom for fault tolerance of a badly timed ability, which is just what is needed here.

  • Active effect:

    • If taken more than x amount of % (35%?) of your total HP from enemy damage, increase the healing/deconstruction rate of the Technician by x amount of % (25%?) for the duration of the ability

      • This radical change rewards aggressive pushing, while still maintaining the illusion of an unbreakable front line. Healing rate and healing amount are different values. Increasing the healing rate will no doubt improve the health of the Technician�s allies. But if suffering from a massive push or consistent damage, the Technician�s healing will eventually fall behind. This should make for a less powerful, but strategically superior model that discourages defensive healing, which is arguably a problem in the game right now.

• Helix Repair Torch

  • Reduce overall healing amount for the recipient by x amount of % (15%?)

  • Reduce overall healing amount for the Technician by x amount of % (10%?)

  • Reduce overall deconstruction damage by x amount of % (10%?)

  • Increase the effective range by x amount of m

    • Helix Repair Torch is leaning towards the overpowered side of the game currently. These changes trim the potential by a slight amount to compensate for the ability redesign, plus the slight bonus for focused healing. The range has also been increased, which should allow more freedom to utilize Hawken�s movement dynamics.

 

Moving Forward

The Technician has been frowned upon due to just how broken it is in relation to the game�s current patch. I think the Technician has potential to strike a decent balance between healing and strategy. As it is the only mech in the game that can heal others, incorporating strategy into this mech is paramount to the game�s overall balance. It�s ability should be used more than once before wiping, but it shouldn�t overly support both offensive and defensive gameplay. An ability redesign will be responsible for removing the dull playstyle that this mech currently offers. By improving the balance and fun factor for this mech, hopefully it will reach a point where Technicians are still viable, but aren�t absurdly overpowered or game changing. They will still be targeted heavily due to their ability to single handedly keep a team alive. However, an ability redesign that improves the toughness should hopefully encourage players to push aggressively regardless. The changes still support the current playstyles, but effectiveness of the mech depends more on focus and strategy rather than raw performance and skill. It is a support mech after all.

 

---

 

Whether to disagree or agree, we need to discuss how we can improve the Technician's balance while retaining the unique aspect of its playstyle. The developers are close to reaching a client side patch, which could potentially mean room for a small or major balance patch. Next to the Incinerator, this mech is borderline broken.

Edited by Draigun, 20 September 2015 - 12:01 AM.

[Sylhiri]

I wouldn't use the word "broken", maximum rustled jimmies.

[HubbaBubba9849]

What I've suggested before is to create an "anti-tech" with a stackable, damage-over-time weapon.

 

More specifically, a nanobot launcher that fires a group of little bugs that latch onto enemy mechs and deal a low but constant damage per second which can be stacked with subsequent hits. The dps would last a certain amount of time or end immediately once the affected mech enters repair mode long enough for armor repair to begin.

[Sylhiri]

What I've suggested before is to create an "anti-tech" with a stackable, damage-over-time weapon.

 

More specifically, a nanobot launcher that fires a group of little bugs that latch onto enemy mechs and deal a low but constant damage per second which can be stacked with subsequent hits. The dps would last a certain amount of time or end immediately once the affected mech enters repair mode long enough for armor repair to begin.

 

So poison that lasts for a certain time, can be reapplied, stacks and the only way to get rid of it is outlast the effects (using health orb if nessessary or drains health even if your not in battle), get a technician or go into a vulnerable repair state (which forces you to withdraw from battle). Not sure if people would think a Hawken version of Teemo is fun to play against.

Edited by Sylhiri, 16 September 2015 - 01:45 PM.

[JackVandal]

to be honest i feel the tech is in a good place, (not including its relationship with the incini) i feel more of the problems with it come from the fact that most of the time people dont handle it well. Often i see new players or even average players try and engage a tech with another foe solo, or see players try and kill the fat boy the tech is attached too. the tech isnt op or broken, it just requires different methods to dispose of than other mech duos.

[Pandabaron]

Something needs to be done with the Tech. Especially the high scoring element. I don't have to play a Tech well to be the top scorer with it, nobody does realistically. you should need a half decent team, uptown and a bunch of grenadiers in a corridor to waste ten minutes of your life before that Tech can earn it's bacon. But those exorbitant scores you can so commonly get in Techs annoys me. I want to feel like a player of real skill has top scored in a Tech, like you would with say a predator, not anyone whose MMR is looking a little shakey.

[Panzermanathod]

You say that you've never used Tech and yet state it is possibly unplayable and is overall undesirable.

 

Yeah, no.

 

You can argue balance issues (you wouldn't be the first or last one to do so) all you want, but calling it possibly unplayable and not even actually use it yourself doesn't help your credibility in my eyes.

[6ixxer]

I think the tech needs a few tweaks rather than wholesale changes.

 

Make the PN-223 hit more frontloaded so the burst damage is actually meaningful (bugging a flak tech is awesome fun).

Reduce team heals slightly.

Reduce XP from team heals moderately.

Increase vamp damage slightly.

Increase the returns on ability while vamping.

[Panzermanathod]

I don't think the Vamp beam should be buffed. It's a healing mech, and rather squishy at that. It's supposed to be more support than anything and I don't think better vamping is going to balance it out.

 

And now I'm just imagining a Vamp Tech flamboyantly spinning around an pulling out a penis knife.

[StubbornPuppet]

A little less healing dealt, a little more damage from primaries, and far less XP for healing is about all I see that is needed to fix the Tech.

[Sylhiri]

Better discussion would be to focus on two questions "is it fun to play with" and "is it fun to play against".

[DeeRax]

Better discussion would be to focus on two questions "is it fun to play with" and "is it fun to play against".

"sometimes" and "not usually".

[Panzermanathod]

It depends.

 

Are you one guy trying to kill a mech being healed? Well, of course it won't be fun, you're outnumbered.

 

Maybe more rushing in is needed for the turtle-prone. You know, don't give them much of a chance to heal.

[MechFighter5e3bf9]

i thoughy they fair fast heal mode turns a tide when im on the run and meet a tech chillin in my hidaway just as enemy rolls round tech+my orb + internals has me rdy to alpha facepunch em and he reaches my corner like 3 seconds after seein me round it

[MechFighter5e3bf9]

ps snipe/infiltrade alpha kill them techs dont run up in thinkin u will alpha the tech and then circle the van either if techs healing a good van turret mode smc  it will protect his tech effectively infact you will find tech is just bait that my van techs himself

 very well when you got balls to move up to the orbs everywhere

Edited by MechFighter5e3bf9, 17 September 2015 - 02:09 PM.

[MechFighter5e3bf9]

look best thing to do is get many emp and some sort of siege mech  and do not try to get in and encircle him while empd you find the nade suppository isnt a good think to have

 chances are while you still in air tryin to dps an empd van, vans smc is now riddling you cause no traction , and touchdown wont be without a grenade waiting, u peekaboo in all top end rounds worked against mine

Edited by MechFighter5e3bf9, 17 September 2015 - 02:14 PM.

[Sylhiri]

It depends.

 

Are you one guy trying to kill a mech being healed? Well, of course it won't be fun, you're outnumbered.

 

To me there is a difference being outnumbered against two "killer" mechs and a "killer" mech with a Tech. Personally when I was in both situations I found that facing against the two "killer" mechs was a more enjoyable experience.

[MechFighter5e3bf9]

To me there is a difference being outnumbered against two "killer" mechs and a "killer" mech with a Tech. Personally when I was in both situations I found that facing against the two "killer" mechs was a more enjoyable experience.

guts and unpredictable assaults and way you move is key

 aswell as lobbing nade over the shield and hit his tech+backside, i can use my orb suply to finish those barely

[Panzermanathod]

To me there is a difference being outnumbered against two "killer" mechs and a "killer" mech with a Tech. Personally when I was in both situations I found that facing against the two "killer" mechs was a more enjoyable experience.

Alright, although there's hardly a difference. Still 2 against 1. The only thing is that in one situation 2 mechs is shooting at you and the other is 2 mechs shooting at you but one isn't shooting all that much and is healing the other.

[Sylhiri]

Alright, although there's hardly a difference. Still 2 against 1. The only thing is that in one situation 2 mechs is shooting at you and the other is 2 mechs shooting at you but one isn't shooting all that much and is healing the other.

 

Also that peck damage works against the two mechs while the Tech pair can heal it and also that with the tech pair you are required to focus the tech unless the other part of the pair is an A class (which almost never happens because A classes don't benefit from healing as much as B and C classes).

[GreyFa1con]

Wow. A "Nerf the Tech" post. Not a "We need more Techs on pubs".

Your TDM team getting stomped because you don't have a decent Tech? Then get a Tech of your own.

Same thing with Medic in TF2.

Good medics are a teamplay force multiplier. As they should be.

.

> *I have never used the Technician in*

You don't even know how to play a Tech, but you want us to listen to you on how to balance it?

Edited by GreyFa1con, 17 September 2015 - 04:04 PM.

[6ixxer]

I don't think the Vamp beam should be buffed. It's a healing mech, and rather squishy at that. It's supposed to be more support than anything and I don't think better vamping is going to balance it out.

 

Well actually its a Support mech.

 

if it was healing only then it would have a healing primary. Many people hate that it heals so much.

 

It can still be support if it is shifted slightly towards damage. adding damage, however, needs to cost some healing.

 

I think this is well within the realms of balance...

Edited by 6ixxer, 17 September 2015 - 03:51 PM.

[Panzermanathod]

Also that peck damage works against the two mechs while the Tech pair can heal it and also that with the tech pair you are required to focus the tech unless the other part of the pair is an A class (which almost never happens because A classes don't benefit from healing as much as B and C classes).

Well, yes, it was intended for the tech to be a high priority target.

 

It's still not that different besides easier access to healing. You go against two other mechs, one of the best things to do is focus fire on one opponent at a time. You're still disadvantaged, and the only change is less offense for healing.

 

I mean, it wouldn't be so different from, say, you against an Assault and a Sharpshooter. One guy who's probably too far away to even clearly get a shot off on. Or maybe a tag team of Rocketeers against one guy. In fact I'd say 2 rocketeers would be more of a unique fight than most mechs and a tech.

 

 

 

Well actually its a Support mech.

 

 

Of course I know it's support. It also heals. I can't call it a healing mech? Do you want my hand to meet your face with slapping?

[HHJFTRU]

Is it just me who feels that sometimes techs don't get hit even if they are in the crosshairs? I mean maybe the actual hitbox of the tech is smaller than it's visible chassis?

Edited by someone, 17 September 2015 - 11:49 PM.

[DerMax]

Would be better to have the Vampire Tech: you get a new resource that you collect and spend using the two modes of the Helix Repair Torch.

[Shoutaxeror]

Would be better to have the Vampire Tech: you get a new resource that you collect and spend using the two modes of the Helix Repair Torch.

You mean, stealing some armor from the enemy and then transfer it to your mates in order to heal them ? That would be awesome.

[DerMax]

You mean, stealing some armor from the enemy and then transfer it to your mates in order to heal them ? That would be awesome.

Yep. That would break the snowballing effect, too. The conversion rate should be around 1:2 (1 armor stolen converts to 2 armor of heals). Or maybe even more than 1:2 � gotta experiment with that.

Edited by DerMax, 18 September 2015 - 02:09 AM.

[Kopra]

Would be better to have the Vampire Tech: you get a new resource that you collect and spend using the two modes of the Helix Repair Torch.

Kind of like how Warrior Priest operated in WHO. Smack enemies to heal more efficiently.

The game would be (or at least I think so) more fun if it capitalized more on the resources like fuel and EU.
I had a system in mind which uses mainly EU to recharge abilities and items as well, because I think resource control is one of the things that seperates good arena shooters from the rest.

I mentioned fuel too because it's suffered from inflation since Ascension and Steam patches. No fuel dodges, fuel internals, no ground lock at low height drops, bunnyhopping all have made fuel less important.

Edited by (KDR) Kopra, 18 September 2015 - 02:19 AM.

[6ixxer]

[Panzermanathod]

Yep. That would break the snowballing effect, too. The conversion rate should be around 1:2 (1 armor stolen converts to 2 armor of heals). Or maybe even more than 1:2 � gotta experiment with that.

 

No, that's a new mech entirely..This just may turn the Tech into a near useless mech because it has to get into fights before it can really heal effectively. And the Tech's HP isn't really conducive towards that playstyle. You then have Techs rushing into battle or just stand around, being less able to do much of anything.

 

And what if there is an upper limit? That would effect matters too.

 

If it was a new mech it would probably be fine.

[DeeRax]

 

Of course I know it's support. It also heals. I can't call it a healing mech? Do you want my hand to meet your face with slapping?

 

Whoa, chill the fuzzy bunny out.

Edited by (TDM) DeeRax, 18 September 2015 - 07:51 AM.

[StubbornPuppet]

Better discussion would be to focus on two questions "is it fun to play with" and "is it fun to play against".

 

I actually enjoy the challenge of trying to focus fire on a tech while attempting to avoid the fire of the player they are supporting.  It IS fun - pretty frustrating at times, sure... but still fun.  That's why I say it needs a few small adjustments.

[Sylhiri]

No, that's a new mech entirely..This just may turn the Tech into a near useless mech because it has to get into fights before it can really heal effectively. And the Tech's HP isn't really conducive towards that playstyle. You then have Techs rushing into battle or just stand around, being less able to do much of anything.

 

And what if there is an upper limit? That would effect matters too.

 

If it was a new mech it would probably be fine.

 

You would have to change the tech's mech, weapon and ability stats for sure, it would be vastly underpowered with it's current set up but I think the suggestion actually puts more skill into playing tech and allows it to be part of the fight rather then cheering on the sidelines. If it was a new mech I can't see the Tech being picked over it since it would add more firepower and the utility of burst heals.

[Panzermanathod]

Whoa, chill the fuzzy bunny out.

I'LL SLAP YOU TOO!

 

 

You would have to change the tech's mech, weapon and ability stats for sure, it would be vastly underpowered with it's current set up but I think the suggestion actually puts more skill into playing tech and allows it to be part of the fight rather then cheering on the sidelines. If it was a new mech I can't see the Tech being picked over it since it would add more firepower and the utility of burst heals.

 

Techs are generally part of the fight. As support. But Techs aren't supposed to be spearheading anything.

 

I for one like the support aspect of the Tech, not just the healing. In fact, for a few months I only kept the original primary of the Tech. I later gotten the Alternate Weapon but I hardly used it.

 

But, yeah, it would have to be a new mech. The changes you suggested for the Tech shouldn't be made, it should be it's own unique mech.

 

That being said, I think there should be an additional thing/meter/counter for burst healing. Having it be based off just draining opponents health doesn't seem like a good idea.

[DeeRax]

I'LL SLAP YOU TOO!

 

[6ixxer]

Whoa, chill the fuzzy bunny out.

meh, internet rage. Its kinda funny, like chicken wing gif :P

[JackVandal]

Yep. That would break the snowballing effect, too. The conversion rate should be around 1:2 (1 armor stolen converts to 2 armor of heals). Or maybe even more than 1:2 � gotta experiment with that.

All i hear is B class G2 tech, and i like it.

 

As to more of the above comments, i think the tech could use less points for healing, in the same way suppression mechs could use more. Though i find the tech is both fun to play as and against, and the rare occasion i find myself frustrated with one (say in the butt of a good vanguard) i go papa incini (its a bit op, but i do love my firetruck) wait for the ability to be on cooldown and just out dps the techs heals. pop both it and the one its healing. 

[Draigun]

A little less healing dealt, a little more damage from primaries, and far less XP for healing is about all I see that is needed to fix the Tech.

 

If damage is to be balanced for the Tech, it should go towards the Helix Repair Torch, not the primaries. However, if the primaries needed to be reworked from some level of speculation, then overall damage from the Helix Repair Torch should be reduced. After all, primaries are the damage dealers, although arguably with patch 1.5.3, that doesn't seem to be the case. I observe quite a lot of damage coming from the Tech's deconstruction beam while certain conditions are being met.

 

Better discussion would be to focus on two questions "is it fun to play with" and "is it fun to play against".

 

The ability needs to be revised, especially when concerned with future patch changes. A long cooldown coupled with a short period of immense healing are clear signs of imbalance. For the Tech, and as a support mech, it should make sense to utilize your surroundings and leverage team play. The current ability fails to accomplish that because it's almost impossible to use it more than once, in addition to failing in sustained support for that team in question.

 

Also, there is a delay in switching targets with the Helix Repair Torch, correct?

[dlg597]

 Not sure if people would think a Hawken version of Teemo is fun to play against.

^ This.

[JackVandal]

 it's almost impossible to use it more than once, in addition to failing in sustained support for that team in question.

 

Also, there is a delay in switching targets with the Helix Repair Torch, correct?

More than once in what sort of time frame? with a replenisher and a good team it can be up fairly often.

as for the delay i think the snap has one, but if a target is centered in the cross hairs and the mouse is clicked it will immediately attach, the delay is if you break target and dont let off the fire button, afaik