46 replies to this topic

[Kopra]

At the moment, C-class mechs heal the most armor per second, B-class mechs repair second most and A-class mechs repair the least. For all mechs, the sitdown time for repair is 2 seconds for all mechs, however.

 

Edit:

I now re-checked the current repair rates, which are as follows:

A: 44,71 armor/sec

B: 56,78 armor/sec

C: 67,80 armor/sec

 

I don't know about you guys but I think A's and B's should be able to start their repairs faster since they repair at a slower rate.

 

So something like

A: 1 s

B: 1.5 s

C: 2 s

 

Or if that's too drastic,

A: 1.5s

B: 1.75s

C: 2s

 

Or maybe even

 

A: 1.5s

B: 2s

C: 2.5s

 

 

This would allow A's to repair chip damage quicker, while C-class mechs remain superior at repairing larger damages, with B-class mechs being somewhere in between.

Edited by (KDR) Kopra, 18 September 2015 - 09:33 AM.

[Shoutaxeror]

Could be nice to test this for a week.

Edited by (KDR) Shoutaxeror, 18 September 2015 - 06:39 AM.

[CrimsonKaim]

Wouldn't mind.

[DerMax]

Yes.

[Sp3ctrr]

Three consecutive post replies that think OP's idea was a good one?

 

What is this madness?

 

 

Spoiler

Also, yes

[DeeRax]

Seems legit.

[comic_sans]

I'd be willing to give it a shot, maybe, but I am not thinking very hard right now.  To be at least half-honest, seeing several EU people agreeing on something makes me think of a red sky in the morning and how it does not usually portend delight.

[DerMax]

I'd be willing to give it a shot, maybe, but I am not thinking very hard right now.  To be at least half-honest, seeing several EU people agreeing on something makes me think of a red sky in the morning and how it does not usually portend delight.

[comic_sans]

 

I'M NOT THE ONE THE HAILS FROM A PEOPLE FILLED WITH HATE for air compressor, DERMAX

 

please don't run off topic I actually like this idea and only wanna make joaks ):

 

But yeah, this could either be a fun idea or something that makes being fat an unattractive option, and not much help is needed there.

Edited by cringe_smells, 18 September 2015 - 08:00 AM.

[StubbornPuppet]

I'd be very concerned about how this would make Scouts and Berzerkers even more damnable.  A-Class mechs can already run so much faster than anything else - so they already have a huge advantage when it comes to repairing; they can get far away to a safe place to repair significantly faster than anything else chasing them.  If they can also get into and out of repair mode faster... it think it might take them from teetering on OP to definitely OP.  Being able to get away super fast, repair, and then be right back in the heat of combat is already the predominate meta used by good A-Class pilots to rack up those 20-1 KDR's.  Do we want to make that even easier?

[Kopra]

I'd be very concerned about how this would make Scouts and Berzerkers even more damnable. A-Class mechs can already run so much faster than anything else - so they already have a huge advantage when it comes to repairing; they can get far away to a safe place to repair significantly faster than anything else chasing them.

 

Actually A-class mechs aren't significantly that much faster than other mechs, Scout and Infiltrator being exceptions at both speed and evasion capability (Infil's large tank and Scout's ability coupled with their boost speed value). The slowest boosting A-class mech is only 12% faster than the fastest boosting C-class mech, but the armor difference between the squishiest C-class mech and the tankiest A-class mech is 90%. This is because of all the patches we got in early Steam patch era which favored C-class mechs heavily, and got even more benefits on top of that.

 

 If they can also get into and out of repair mode faster... it think it might take them from teetering on OP to definitely OP.  Being able to get away super fast, repair, and then be right back in the heat of combat is already the predominate meta used by good A-Class pilots to rack up those 20-1 KDR's.  Do we want to make that even easier?

 

I only mentioned the time to get into repair mode, not getting out of it. I feel that 1 seconds to get out of repair is sufficient for all mechs, as is the cancelation of repair when you take damage.

If you're in a server where pilots are "already racking" 20-1 KDR, congratulations, you're probably in a newbie server with a smurf in it or the teams are horribly unbalanced, in which case it wouldn't matter if these players had even 5 seconds to start repairing.

[Sylhiri]

I'd be very concerned about how this would make Scouts and Berzerkers even more damnable.  A-Class mechs can already run so much faster than anything else - so they already have a huge advantage when it comes to repairing; they can get far away to a safe place to repair significantly faster than anything else chasing them.  If they can also get into and out of repair mode faster... it think it might take them from teetering on OP to definitely OP.  Being able to get away super fast, repair, and then be right back in the heat of combat is already the predominate meta used by good A-Class pilots to rack up those 20-1 KDR's.  Do we want to make that even easier?

 

Or they can just use a Health Charge, it's much safer.

[Kopra]

Or they can just use a Health Charge, it's much safer.

Hrrr. This is another item that really needs looking at. The whole item system, actually.

[nepacaka]

a-class with reconstructor, repairing in a several second.

HP it is actually only one C-class advantage (cuz all other stats is worse :D), and you want take it too?
- slower walk/boost/dodge
- higher overheat time
- small radar range

- slow repiair time

- smaller dpm (if compared with other, because they slow)

- very situation ability, you can't use it always like other mechs (okay, only gren can use ability always)

but, ok.


if A-class have 1 sec and 50HP rate. and C-class have 2 sec and 70HP rate. we have:

A-class
3 sec repair. - 100HP (1sec start + 2 sec)
4 sec - 150HP
8 sec - 350HP

C-class
3 sec - 70HP
4 sec - 140HP
8 sec - 420HP
14sec - 840HP
and (12 sec if you have 80HP rate.)


i agree only with this variant.

 

Or if that's too drastic,

A: 1.5s

B: 1.75s

C: 2s

 

i also think, that reapiring on C-class too bored. and if you added one more second to it, i'm die of old age, while waiting when my repairing end...

[Sylhiri]

- slow repiair time

 

Are you talking about current? I could have sworn that a long time ago they switched rates by class to a standard percentage rate across all mechs.

[Kopra]

Are you talking about current? I could have sworn that a long time ago they switched rates by class to a standard percentage rate across all mechs.

It used to be a flat rate across all mechs pre-Ascension; it used to be faster to suicide on a C-class mech than repair yourself to full.

Now the repair rate depends on class, while A-class mechs repair from 0 to full the fastest (time wise), what it has done is that C-class mechs repair chip damage more efficiently. You can shut down A-class mechs with both chip damage AND real damage, while C-class mechs largely ignore chip damage.

[nepacaka]

Are you talking about current? I could have sworn that a long time ago they switched rates by class to a standard percentage rate across all mechs.

ie you say that: A-class repair rate = C-class repair rate now?

[DeeRax]

 

You can shut down A-class mechs with both chip damage AND real damage, while C-class mechs largely ignore chip damage.

Hmm. When you put it that way.... Isn't that just one of the advantages of being a big C? Or is that too much of an advantage?
(The disadvantage, in my mind, being that the C class is going to have a much harder time avoiding and/or getting away from that 'real' damage; I guess this is less of a thing in higher-tier play though)

[nepacaka]

Hmm. When you put it that way.... Isn't that just one of the advantages of being a big C? Or is that too much of an advantage?
(The disadvantage, in my mind, being that the C class is going to have a much harder time avoiding and/or getting away from that 'real' damage; I guess this is less of a thing in higher-tier play though)

and if several enemies can focus at you, 800 HP is nothing, you die in one second, even if you brawler. (yeah, i know positioning, radar, etc... but you can die so fast, and can't evade damage against several enemies, it is working only with tech, but with tech doesn't matter, how much repair rate you have :D)

 

i also can admit if C-class get HP nerf, or repair rate nerf, but only if devs increase dodge distance and dodge speed for heavies.
if i remember correct, now it is about 18-20 meters, and 25 for A-class, but maybe i'm wrong. make dodge 25 meters, and all be good. well, except fuel-exploit...

[Kopra]

Hmm. When you put it that way.... Isn't that just one of the advantages of being a big C? Or is that too much of an advantage?
(The disadvantage, in my mind, being that the C class is going to have a much harder time avoiding and/or getting away from that 'real' damage; I guess this is less of a thing in higher-tier play though)

Well, this is true. A reason to go with better armor is so that you can ignore smaller damage in exchange for being more suspectible to it (bigger hitbox, slower speeds). Thing is, the double armor advantage is way, way, way better than being only slightly faster. C-class mechs are not THAT slow, and besides that, you don't need to be very fast when hitscan & TOW rocket can outrun any mech.

[n3onfx]

 

If they can also get into and out of repair mode faster... it think it might take them from teetering on OP to definitely OP.

 

 

Have I entered a time-bending wormhole to emerge in an uncharted time where A class is teetering on OP?

[Sylhiri]

Have I entered a time-bending wormhole to emerge in an uncharted time where A class is teetering on OP?

 

I miss my 600+ HP A class.

[nepacaka]

Well, this is true. A reason to go with better armor is so that you can ignore smaller damage in exchange for being more suspectible to it (bigger hitbox, slower speeds). Thing is, the double armor advantage is way, way, way better than being only slightly faster. C-class mechs are not THAT slow, and besides that, you don't need to be very fast when hitscan & TOW rocket can outrun any mech.

it is actually working only in perfect situation. with perfect aim, perfect ping, perfect players skill. if one of this not perfect, it can be a problem.

actually, i'm rhink that is the big difference between A- and C-classes (it doesn't affect on B-class never).

C-class can be devastative, and probably OP in 1vs1, Many C-class mechs in one team - it is always problem in siege (probably and in other modes too). they just like a giant wall. you shoot, shoot, shoot... but their HP not ending xD ! they have a lot of HP summary!

and you never can fix it till "glass-cannon" conception exist in hawken.

i love current B-class balance, but hate A and C. C-calss is extremely bored to play in TDM, MA, DM. because they too slow, to travel around whole map. this is just a piece of armor which stuck on AA.
yes, we have vanguard. but other?...
yes, Prosk, Origin and Bunker is good. Better maps for TDM for heavies. on Bunker you even no need to go, you always stay near with enemy :P. but all other maps? LostEco/MA - it is just a suffer for slow mechs. you need running through whole map, and you slow like a hell. it is actually very bored.
it is very bored in DM. Frontline? it is fuzzy bunny Huge!
Early i like frontline, because i play only in siege on this map, and i think: "what a nice map". But when i trying to play in TDM, oh... it is one of the worsest maps in game.

Probably if all maps have the same size, we can just a nerf C-class HP, but till LEco, FLine, and Wreckage exist... i want the same repair speed with scout! because i don't have any other advantage on these big-maps.

[CounterlogicMan]

To OP idea. Interesting but I think this would give an unfair advantage to A-classes.

 

A-Classes already have the easiest time disengaging from a fight and have less health to heal than C and B classes. Their stats are already tailored to make them hit and run machines. Were as the C classes are meant to sustain on the front lines. B classes are meant to be the versatile in betweeners. When you start giving repair speed advantages to lighter classes you are reducing the C classes ability to sustain against them. Giving C Class less room to breathe between attacks so to speak. Especially when you factor in mechs healing from three quarters health to full rather than from near death. 

 

To what was said in response to Stubborn Puppet, A classes have roughly 5 m/s more boost speed on average than B classes and roughly 10 m/s more boost speed than C classes. So to say that they are "not that much faster" is preposterous. Not to mention the air speed and maneuverability advantage that makes A classes much harder to hit when they are fleeing than B or C classes larger and slower hit boxes. 

 

Keep in mind mechs take more damage while repairing. By reducing the set down time for lighter classes you are also reducing their overall time with repair vulnerability.

 

Again...Keep in mind due to larger hit boxes and lower speeds both on the ground and in the air (on average) C classes and B classes are likely to sustain more hits during fights. On the opposite side of that coin, an A class can take less hits during a fight.

 

Here are some maths that I used to inform my opinion of OP's proposed changes.

 

Heal times for max sustainable damage / with 1 tow worth of damage  /  quarter health of damage:

 

Scout: 2s + (319/44.71) = 9.13s          ///        2 + (125/44.71) = 4.8s   ///    2s + (79.75/44.71) = 3.78s

Berzerker: 2s + (354/44.71) = 9.92s   ///                                              ///    2s + (88.75/44.71) = 3.98s

Infiltrator: 2s + (329/44.71) = 9.36s    ///                                              ///    2s + (82.5/44.71) = 3.85s

 

Assault: 2s + (564/56.78) = 11.93s    ///         2 + (125/56.78) = 4.2s  ///    2s + (141.25/56.78) = 4.49s

Bruiser: 2s + (554/56.78) = 11.76s    ///                                              ///    2s + (138.75/56.78) = 4.44s

Raider: 2s + (514/56.78) = 11.05s    ///                                              ///     2s + (128.5/56.78) = 4.26s

 

Brawler: 2s + (799/67.8) = 13.78s    ///          2 + (125/67.8) = 3.84s  ///    2s + (200/67.8) = 4.95s

Vanguard: 2s + (684/67.8) = 12.08s ///                                              ///    2s + (171.25/67.8) = 4.52s

G2 Raider: 2s + (674/67.8) = 11.94s ///                                             ///    2s + (168.75/67.8) = 4.49s

 

With Proposed Changes:

 

Scout: 1s + (319/44.71) = 8.13s          ///        1 + (125/44.71) = 3.8s   ///    1s + (79.75/44.71) = 2.78s

Berzerker: 1s + (354/44.71) = 8.92s   ///                                              ///    1s + (88.75/44.71) = 2.98s

Infiltrator: 1s + (329/44.71) = 8.36s    ///                                              ///    1s + (82.5/44.71) = 2.85s

 

Assault: 1.5s + (564/56.78) = 11.43s    ///         1.5 + (125/56.78) = 3.7s  ///    1.5s + (141.25/56.78) = 3.99s

Bruiser: 1.5s + (554/56.78) = 11.26s    ///                                              ///    1.5s + (138.75/56.78) = 3.94s

Raider: 1.5s + (514/56.78) = 10.55s    ///                                              ///     1.5s + (128.5/56.78) = 3.76s

 

Brawler: 2s + (799/67.8) = 13.78s    ///          2 + (125/67.8) = 3.84s  ///    2s + (200/67.8) = 4.95s

Vanguard: 2s + (684/67.8) = 12.08s ///                                              ///    2s + (171.25/67.8) = 4.52s

G2 Raider: 2s + (674/67.8) = 11.94s ///                                             ///    2s + (168.75/67.8) = 4.49s

 

Not gonna math for all of your proposed numbers because the trend is the same. 

 

Proportionally, with the current repair speeds, C Classes take longer to repair a quarter of their health compared to A classes. C classes do repair a Tows damage faster due to proportionally a tow's worth of damage being more against an A class than against a C class. To me, this is by design because an A class can disengage and retreat farther and faster than C class. Which is usually forced to repair closer to the fighting. It fits the proportionality of health vs speed. Fitting the respective roles of the classes. Plus a C class is more likely due to take damage due to its size and speed compared to the nimble A classes.

 

 

With the OP's changes the proportionality of health vs healing shifts in favor of A classes which already have the advantage of maneuverability to make up for their weakness of health. A classes biggest advantage is their speed it gives them the ability to manage space on the battlefield better than the other mech classes. Allowing A classes to set down and repair faster than B and C classes gives A classes more room to breathe and C classes less room to breathe, with B classes somewhere in between. Suddenly A classes have enough time to run away and heal massive amounts of damage and come back into the fight before the C classes have healed.

 

Keep in mind this whole time A classes do the same amount of damage as heavier classes.

 

The math and experience tells me these changes would result in C classes struggling to find time to heal while A classes are jetting around the map healing to full hp with impunity. The A classes would also be made more effective in team fights. Being able to trade their HP much more effectively against heavier classes because they will be able to disengage and heal their hp back even faster than they do now.

Edited by CounterlogicMan, 18 September 2015 - 02:53 PM.

[Sylhiri]

Counterlogicman, are you suggesting that speed vs health is balanced?

[CounterlogicMan]

Counterlogicman, are you suggesting that speed vs health is balanced?

 

For the vast majority of mechs in the game. Yeah it is. 

[nepacaka]

also, a-class can runaway from cover and repair in safety. c-class mostly can't runaway. so, heavy mech depend from team and almost always repair under covering by his teammates, he just no time to runaway, repair, and than return back, so he just repair in the middle of the fight. this is why he start heal a little faster =)

Edited by nepacaka, 18 September 2015 - 03:33 PM.

[n3onfx]

I feel the whole "health vs speed" argument in the context of repairing falls flat on its face when an A class will usually just die before it has a chance to actually repair if it wants to stay relevant to its team . Crunching numbers is nice but it's not 100% of the picture.

Depends on what you want to balance I guess, pubs where A classes allow to pubstomp more effectively, comp TDM where A classes aren't really viable bar a tech, MA where for once speed is actually decently important. In game modes where not dying is more important than objectives the balance is skewed towards B and C class and it has been verified over and over.

[StubbornPuppet]

I feel the whole "health vs speed" argument in the context of repairing falls flat on its face when an A class will usually just die before it has a chance to actually repair if it wants to stay relevant to its team . Crunching numbers is nice but it's not 100% of the picture.

Depends on what you want to balance I guess, pubs where A classes allow to pubstomp more effectively, comp TDM where A classes aren't really viable bar a tech, MA where for once speed is actually decently important. In game modes where not dying is more important than objectives the balance is skewed towards B and C class and it has been verified over and over.

 

To the first point, that "A's will just die because, otherwise, they're not relevant to the team", experience has shown me that this is not the case.  A's can run away, heal, and be right back in the fight faster than they can respawn and get back to the same.  But, even if it did take longer and made them 'irrelevant' to their team, very few people ever do that.  C'mon, we're talking about humans here - they are selfish at heart and would rather NOT die when the adrenaline reward for that daring escape on a thread of health... then come back a few moments later to get a revenge kill is there waiting for us.  Those are the moments we play for.  And we are still helping the team in many ways.

 

To the second point, about how different mech speeds impact different game modes, there really is no way to fix that... unless you make the mech speed vs. healing time vary from one game mode to the next, based on mech class.  Nah, too complicated and it would feel awkward when going from one game mode to the next, forcing the division of the player base into an even more segragated groups that only play one mode.  The same for player skill level, no fix.  Anything you do just shifts the discrepancies around and people adapt to find the new 'best' tactic for themselves.

[Kopra]

Good discussion and a good table from CLM. 

 

To OP idea. Interesting but I think this would give an unfair advantage to A-classes.

 

A-Classes already have the easiest time disengaging from a fight and have less health to heal than C and B classes. Their stats are already tailored to make them hit and run machines. Were as the C classes are meant to sustain on the front lines. B classes are meant to be the versatile in betweeners. When you start giving repair speed advantages to lighter classes you are reducing the C classes ability to sustain against them. Giving C Class less room to breathe between attacks so to speak. Especially when you factor in mechs healing from three quarters health to full rather than from near death. 

 

I would say the mechs that have the easiest time getting away from a fight are actually B-class mechs, namely Raider and Assault, because they are not much slower and have enough armor to withstand even heavy damage (especially with deflectors).

 

 

 

To what was said in response to Stubborn Puppet, A classes have roughly 5 m/s more boost speed on average than B classes and roughly 10 m/s more boost speed than C classes. So to say that they are "not that much faster" is preposterous. Not to mention the air speed and maneuverability advantage that makes A classes much harder to hit when they are fleeing than B or C classes larger and slower hit boxes. 

 

+5 m/s speed advantage means is not much, really. Consider a Berserker and an Assault, where the Berserker is 3.6 m/s faster. If both begin boosting and boost for 10 seconds, the Berserker will be 36 meters ahead of the Assault, well within the range of SMC/AR/TOW.

 

(Not counting the fact that the Assault has a larger fuel tank and the Berserker will run out of fuel before the Assault). 

The only fast mechs are Infil/Scout, the other A-class mechs only have a light frame with very little speed benefits.

 

 

Keep in mind mechs take more damage while repairing. By reducing the set down time for lighter classes you are also reducing their overall time with repair vulnerability.

 

Since when?

 

 

Again...Keep in mind due to larger hit boxes and lower speeds both on the ground and in the air (on average) C classes and B classes are likely to sustain more hits during fights. On the opposite side of that coin, an A class can take less hits during a fight.

 

Hitbox size affects mostly how effective weapons with spread are and the difficulty level of doing tracking with sustained at range. As players become better at the game, even the difficulty in tracking becomes irrelevant because relatively Hawken hitboxes are large and the speeds are slow. In the case of weapons like TOW, the difference between how much more suspectible A-class mechs are to it how vs. C-classes are, is rather small because how large the explosion size is relatively to the hitbox. 

 

Here's the spread/distance/hitbox table I made some time ago. Just for reference.

 

 

 

 

Proportionally, with the current repair speeds, C Classes take longer to repair a quarter of their health compared to A classes. C classes do repair a Tows damage faster due to proportionally a tow's worth of damage being more against an A class than against a C class. To me, this is by design because an A class can disengage and retreat farther and faster than C class. Which is usually forced to repair closer to the fighting. It fits the proportionality of health vs speed. Fitting the respective roles of the classes. Plus a C class is more likely due to take damage due to its size and speed compared to the nimble A classes.

 

My point is that the C-class mechs have way more armor than the A-classes have speed. In game the C-classes have enough speed to repair in safety (especially with tricks like dodgeboosting which decreases the speed difference between classes). A-classes have more speed but the C-class mechs have enough speed. Do the A-classes have enough armor? If I get into a game where a team is mostly C-class, that team is the most likely one to win, even if it's a gamemode like MA which favors adaptibility and speed.

 

 

With the OP's changes the proportionality of health vs healing shifts in favor of A classes which already have the advantage of maneuverability to make up for their weakness of health. A classes biggest advantage is their speed it gives them the ability to manage space on the battlefield better than the other mech classes. Allowing A classes to set down and repair faster than B and C classes gives A classes more room to breathe and C classes less room to breathe, with B classes somewhere in between. Suddenly A classes have enough time to run away and heal massive amounts of damage and come back into the fight before the C classes have healed.

 

You can't dodge hitscan and against spam, hitbox size is irrelevant.

Besides, the C-classes would still remain better at repairing large amounts while A-classes would repair chip damage better, the crossing area of armor repaired being at TOW's worth of damage as your table showed. 

I feel at the moment that C-class mechs have way too much room to breathe. If I want to have fun in the game, I play A. But if I want to win, I play B/C, and preferably Brawler. You can't outrun hitscan or TOW.

 

 

Keep in mind this whole time A classes do the same amount of damage as heavier classes.

 

Exactly! And double armor is very dandy with that.

 

The math and experience tells me these changes would result in C classes struggling to find time to heal while A classes are jetting around the map healing to full hp with impunity. The A classes would also be made more effective in team fights. Being able to trade their HP much more effectively against heavier classes because they will be able to disengage and heal their hp back even faster than they do now.

 

You forget that A-class mechs die within a few hits before they even get to repair, and this is what math and experience tell me.

 

A game dynamic where the A-class can do hit/run more efficiently while the C is frontloaded with armor is exactly what I aim with the suggestion.

 

The 1/1.5/2 model might be too drastic, especially since , hence why I included the 1.5/1.75/2 model as well. The A-class would then heal better only for 1.5 seconds (t=3s) because the C-class would have catched up.

 

Edited by (KDR) Kopra, 19 September 2015 - 02:39 AM.

[Meraple]

To the first point, that "A's will just die because, otherwise, they're not relevant to the team", experience has shown me that this is not the case.

An A-class is already risking being 1-shot after getting TOW'd once.

After another TOW, he'll usually die if he doesn't retreat.

 

A-classes generally can't contribute much to the team in TDMs in either state, barring Tech and maybe Infil/Reaper.

Although pretty much nobody plays Infil in competitive and I only know of two Reapers lol..

Not mentioning average pubs since literally everything works in those.

 

 

A's can run away, heal, and be right back in the fight faster than they can respawn and get back to the same.

If the A-class tries to get back into the fight after repairing, it only takes a TOW or two to force him to retreat again.

 

You can repair fairly close to the fight as well, which is generally safer for C-classes than A-classes.

I'm puzzled why almost everyone runs a considerable distance before repairing.

I personally repair pretty close to fights without much trouble.

[Shoutaxeror]

Yeah, the big issue about balancing A/C (DC) classes is what has been said before : high tier players know that C class are objectively superior than A class, while lower tier players complain about getting rekt by a little and fast hitbox. So, how do you balance this ?

[Sylhiri]

Yeah, the big issue about balancing A/C (DC) classes is what has been said before : high tier players know that C class are objectively superior than A class, while lower tier players complain about getting rekt by a little and fast hitbox. So, how do you balance this ?

 

You make everyone B class?

[Hyginos]

A-classes generally can't contribute much to the team in TDMs

 

What's a Berzerker?

[nepacaka]

+5 m/s speed advantage means is not much, really. Consider a Berserker and an Assault, where the Berserker is 3.6 m/s faster. If both begin boosting and boost for 10 seconds, the Berserker will be 36 meters ahead of the Assault, well within the range of SMC/AR/TOW.

 

(Not counting the fact that the Assault has a larger fuel tank and the Berserker will run out of fuel before the Assault). 

The only fast mechs are Infil/Scout, the other A-class mechs only have a light frame with very little speed benefits.

 

it is just because assault is lol-mech. and have high value for 2 more importaint stats in game (HP, speed). (+ high fuel tank for his high-speed :P)
swap his HP and fueltank with CRT, and all be good.

Edited by nepacaka, 19 September 2015 - 10:09 PM.

[Meraple]

What's a Berzerker?

I'm not that aware of the meta in NA, but Zerker's mostly suicide material over here.

There's only a few good EU pilots that'd take an A-class over a B- or C-class when playing seriously, and none of them a Zerker.

[MomOw]

The issue with A-class is that an Scout/Berzerker player can rape a low level server. In the meantime, in a higher level server scouts and berzerker aren't over-the-top and Brawler masterrace.

 

So I guet what Kopra intend, but I wonder how this will lead LaGadzi and Friends to roflstompstompnomnom N00B servers.

 

BabaJi knows it's damned hard to balance both lower and higher levels of gameplay.

[coldform]

BabaJi knows it's damned hard

 

rofl - 

 

I think repairing should be the one universal mechanic that is balanced across the board - as in a flat percentage of HP returned over an arbitrary amount of time.

 

the other side of the argument - if you wanted to attempt to encourage a greater C-Class presence -  would be  make it so C class repair only slightly faster than B/Cs, and maybe - just maybe - decrease repair time for A frames.

 

this probably would lead to more C classes defining the line of engagement in a match, and A classes attacking from the periphery.  wasn't that the initial design goal of the A classes - to be flanking support and suppression?  this also might slow down the tempo of engagement

 

lotsa health+better repair time = the tanky Cs.. well.. more tanky.

 

besides that, the abundance of HP/repair in the current meta kinda skews things a little, but that's for another topic...

[Kopra]

 

 

besides that, the abundance of HP/repair in the current meta kinda skews things a little, but that's for another topic...

^ Yes, on the other hand the armor values are hand crafted with minor differences. As in, Tech having not much armor at all and Berserker having too much. Then you have the orbs that throw all that away with their 170-212 healing value which not only increase effective in combat armor, they decrease repair time dramatically when used in combination with C repair or tech repair.

[Sylhiri]

this probably would lead to more C classes defining the line of engagement in a match, and A classes attacking from the periphery.  wasn't that the initial design goal of the A classes - to be flanking support and suppression?

 

Then what are B's? Any class can flank support and suppress, Raider can go just as fast or faster then most A classes with more health.