60 replies to this topic

[Shoutaxeror]

This is how T-32 acually works :

 

- 75 full damage when uncharged

- 120 full damage when charged (1,6 x more damage)

 

These numbers decrease when you get away from your target, because of the spread (or dispersion) of the shells. Spread is the same no matter how your bolt is charged or not.

 

 

Why would it need some change ?

 

Spread becomes ridiculous from some distance, making the shots random and useless. On Raider, reflak overwhelms it in most situations. On Predator, breacher is way more effective in most situations.

 

Slightly decreasing uncharged spread and significantly reduce charged spread would fix it IMO, and make the weapon more balanced. However, this is not a big balance issue, just some weapon that we all love and want to see more ! (Is it biaised.?.;;!!!)

 

Results here !

Edited by (KDR) Shoutaxeror, 08 November 2015 - 03:57 AM.

[n3onfx]

Decreasing spread on charged shot only would be pretty nice. Maybe making the falloff range start a tad farther would be nice as well. Both these on charged shots only though, both to make it balanced and to not bring it too close to the reflak.

 

Flak, Reflak and Breacher are all plain better than the T32 is it stands right now.

Edited by neon, 01 November 2015 - 08:02 AM.

[JackVandal]

iv always felt the spread was a little to random, though i find it on raider as a burst option over the reflak, though mechanic wise i dont oppose these options, i just wish the bug with blank shots would get fixed

[Guns_N_Rozer]

as a shotgun T32 is ok , i think . try EOC its Fun too play 

[SparkyJJC]

I feel the spread should be reduced, end of.
No special charge features other than the power of the shot, like it is now.

[nepacaka]

I think chargered damage can be a little increased, but spread and other - no.

[Shoutaxeror]

I think chargered damage can be a little increased, but spread and other - no.

Could you explain why ?

But that could be an option too, buffing the close range burst aspect of the weapon.

[Meraple]

T32 Raider already has alot of almost-instant-burst.

I don't think buffing the damage would be a great idea.

Edited by (KDR) Meraple, 01 November 2015 - 08:42 AM.

[n3onfx]

T32 Raider already has alot of almost-instant-burst.

I don't think buffing the damage would be a great idea.

 

The biggest (and only) issue is really the random spread yeah, and maybe the extremely short range (but that may be in part due to the spread). It definitely doesn't need more burst.

Edited by neon, 01 November 2015 - 08:47 AM.

[kaiserschmarrn_]

T32 actually does a fantastic amount of damage, but it's range is unreliable. Decreasing the spread should be fine.

[MomOw]

T32 is meh... I've got to learn to use it. but I don't want Silent to be even better so no buff plox

[Kopra]

Other than the spread (random spread makes for too much luck factor at medium range), I think it's fine compared to the other shotguns (except the Breacher, which makes any mech awesome).

[ticklemyiguana]

Other than the spread (random spread makes for too much luck factor at medium range), I think it's fine compared to the other shotguns (except the Breacher, which makes any mech awesome).

Breacher incin.

Edited by ticklemyiguana, 01 November 2015 - 02:30 PM.

[DeeRax]

The whacky spread is my only issue with it.

Though I'd almost like to see it have decreased spread and falloff just when uncharged, but keep the weird spread and falloff for charged shots. Kinda like a reverse breacher I guess.

Eh, just fix the spread.

[Kopra]

Breached incin.

The exception that proves the rule. 

[The_Silencer]

* The Incinerator needs of a nerf, that's a fact.

 

Back on topic, this is a sensitive subject, IMHO, due that this weapon is shared by several different mechs (mechs who have different roles and distinct secondaries) in the game.

 

At a first glance, the suggested modis may look like something pretty appealing and coherent, but the fact I mention above inherently would make "the thing" more complicated.

 

At the end, the idea of making a short range weapon pretty better at medium range with such a damage hit when charged is, as I said, a sensitive subject.

 

* The Incin' situation should definitely be a priority, IMO.

[DeeRax]

* The Incinerator needs of a nerf, that's a fact.

 

Back on topic, this is a sensitive subject, IMHO, due that this weapon is shared by several different mechs (mechs who have different roles and distinct secondaries) in the game.

 

At a first glance, the suggested modis may look like something pretty appealing and coherent, but the fact I mention above inherently would make "the thing" more complicated.

 

At the end, the idea of making a short range weapon pretty better at medium range with such a damage hit when charged is, as I said, a sensitive subject.

 

* The Incin' situation should definitely be a priority, IMO.

 

Would keeping it's current inaccuracy for charged shots help mitigate this?
I personally still think even the spread* on charged shots should be decreased a little, but I'm 100% OK with the charged shots having more spread than uncharged, overall.

*read: the randomness, specifically.

Edited by (TDM) DeeRax, 01 November 2015 - 12:43 PM.

[Shoutaxeror]

I noticed my survey was not well made. You can't tick "decrease spread" + add some comments. So, if you have an other idea and want something already proposed, tick "other" and say something like "increase spread and nerf dmg pls !!!".

Edited by (KDR) Shoutaxeror, 01 November 2015 - 12:48 PM.

[devotion]

i don't think it's unreasonable that a weapon or even an entire mech specializes in narrow applications. the t32 is bad at range, but still manages to be the raider weapon of choice for several high tier raiders.

[DeeRax]

i don't think it's unreasonable that a weapon or even an entire mech specializes in narrow applications. the t32 is bad at range, but still manages to be the raider weapon of choice for several high tier raiders.

It should never be a reliable mid-range weapon.
But the fact that you can on occasion miss most of a near-point-blank shot due to super-random spread (NOT ping, bad aim, etc.) is completely unacceptable. T-32 could be re-named the "Lottery Gun;" RE-Flak is almost always the better choice, as far as Raider goes. G2 Raider doesn't get a choice, unfortunately. Predator has the Breacher.

Edited by (TDM) DeeRax, 01 November 2015 - 01:53 PM.

[Sokram]

 How bout more pellets in charged shot? With same spread. And same overall damage.  You will hit every pixel in the spread zone.... And missed pellets will be not as punishing...

 Coz reducing spread is alright....but its too similar to Breacher. And i dont like when weapons copy each other.

 

 

 

Also, what about XT version? I really wish i could slap miniflak on my G2 but...

[DeeRax]

 How bout more pellets in charged shot? With same spread. And same overall damage.  You will hit every pixel in the spread zone.... And missed pellets will be not as punishing...

 Coz reducing spread is alright....but its too similar to Breacher. And i dont like when weapons copy each other.

 

 

 

Also, what about XT version? I really wish i could slap miniflak on my G2 but...

IIRC, the charged shot already gets more pellets than uncharged, that's why the charged shot does more damage (???)

I don't think anyone is advocating for reducing the spread to pin-point accuracy or anything. Just make it less goofily random.

*Oh... I got a mini-flak G2R through the weapon glitch once. It was pretty glorious.

Edited by (TDM) DeeRax, 01 November 2015 - 01:49 PM.

[Sokram]

Then, instead of reducing its spread (I need that spread), I suggest 2 circle spread.   So some pellets have tight spread while rest have larger spread.

 

Uncharged shot have 3 pellets inside inncer circle and 2 in outer.

Charged shot have  5 pellets inside inner circle and 3 in outer. 

Or make it % based. (70% to hit inner circle and 30% to hit outer)

 

 

 

But I still think that T- 32 should add more pellets per "wing".   2 pellets per "wing" would be awesome. total of 11 pellets... 11 damage each. Though that will buff its damage by 1.

[n3onfx]

Then, instead of reducing its spread (I need that spread), I suggest 2 circle spread.

 

I'm pretty sure that when people say "the spread is too random" they don't mean to reduce the shotgun-effect of the weapon, just that the spread is too wide, and that pellets can go anywhere in the spread circle you describe. The worst part of it being that it's completely random. 

 

It happens often enough that a shot will come out with the large majority of pellets hitting on the sides and you'll end out doing shitty damage even though you are close and aiming at the center of a mech. Sometimes you shoot at a target on 50HP dead-center that's close to you and turn away only to discover that the pellets went on the edges of the spread and you didn't kill it. Your idea is not a bad one since it stills reduces the variance on same shots which is the core issue with the T32, but having pellets that can still go to the extremes of the spread is iffy.

 

Such randomness shouldn't be in a game that has very little to no randomness in every other part of it. It shouldn't happen that the same shot in the same circumstances can end up with different results at random. The T32 Bolt is not a bad weapon, but it's not a reliable one.

[Trych]

Reducing the spread is what I believe to be the simplest and most logical solution for "fixing" the T-32.

The weapon is relatively well balanced and I don't think this would make it drastically more powerful.

There doesn't need to be any complicated changes involved.

[PoopSlinger]

LEAVE T-32 ALONE!!!!!   Shorten reload time on corsair.

[Shoutaxeror]

LEAVE T-32 ALONE!!!!!   Shorten reload time on corsair.

So you think T32 is fine ?

 

Talking about Corsair, what about the cooldown between changing mode ?

[Morquedeas]

I made a thread about this a long time ago.  It's a bit wordy but basically I'm in favor of increasing the pellet count on both charged and uncharged shots to increse consitency without giving the weapon too much of a direct buff.  Here's a link: https://community.pl...alance-alaways/

[Shoutaxeror]

I will close and show the results tomorrow, Feel free to give your opinion if you didn't do it already.

[Silent_]

RNG spread is stupid, making damage to vary regardless of player. Small buff to effective range would be nice to have since currently getting within range usually means abandoning cover.

[Shoutaxeror]

Results can be watched here.

 

It's probably not representative of the whole community due to the small amount of replies (and maybe some people answered more than once). But what we can say :

 

- T32 is not OP.

- On the 34 relevant replies, 12 persons  (about 35%) think T32 is fine as it is.

- On the 5 people who replied and don't use T32, only one think the weapon is fine, the four others think spread could be reduced

- 22 people think T32 spread could use a spread buff. Falloff range was also mentioned 2 times.

 

- Maybe that was because of how I made the survey, but everyone (except two) picked a different answer for uncharged and charged shots. It could be cool if charged shot was not only a damage buff, but also the mechanic of the weapon acted differently (like breacher, but of course it should stay a shotgun mechanic). Most people replied that it was the charged shots that should be the less spready but several people replied the opposite.

 

 

My conclusion will be that very good raider pilots replied in this topic and think spread could be reduced (except Poop).

[Onstrava]

The damage on the T32 is fine really. The only problem I find with it is that its spread is too rng. Lowering the spread of uncharged T32 will fix the problem. Charged T32 hits hard since the pellets are increase while uncharged shot spam is rng based. To put it blunt, less pellets with the uncharged T32 + a moving target + the fact that it's a buckshot shotgun, means you're going to be fighting rng for the kill. Lowering the spread of uncharged T32 will fix that really quickly. After that the only thing you will have to worry about is your hands after spamming the mouse click button into the ground.

[Morquedeas]

Are we just ignoring my suggestion?

 

I don't think the spread of either mode should be changed.  The t-bolt is not meant to be a long range shotgun, if you want that take the reflak.  The raider shouldn't be good at long range, it's a short ranged specialist.  Decreased spread would make the t-bolt too good at longer ranges where the raider should not be too good.

 

This is why increasing pellet count is such a good idea, in my opinion.  More pellets mean the rng of the spread will be less punishing as the damage is spread out more between the pellets, having some go wild or not bullseyeing your target will not hurt as much (or it might hurt more depending, but the main thing is that it will be more CONSISTENT).  It will help somewhat with firing at greater distances, but that's really not the point of the t-bolt.

 

If my point still isn't clear, read the thread I posted a link to in my earlier comment.  If I have to I can also make pictures and go into even further detail.

[DeeRax]

Are we just ignoring my suggestion?

 

Well, you're seemingly ignoring ours, so yeah.

We're not talking about decreasing the spread in general, we're just saying it shouldn't be as insanely random as it is. There is a difference. Uhh... Does that make sense? There is probably a more technical way I could word this, sorry...
Anyways, No one is trying to make the t-32 good at long range.

Edited by (TDM) DeeRax, 09 November 2015 - 04:46 PM.

[Sokram]

Well, you're seemingly ignoring ours, so yeah.

We're not talking about decreasing the spread in general, we're just saying it shouldn't be as insanely random as it is. There is a difference. Uhh... Does that make sense? There is probably a more technical way I could word this, sorry...
Anyways, No one is trying to make the t-32 good at long range.

 

Last time i suggested less random " 2 circle" spread....You said "Naaaah...Some pellets still gonna miss".

 

You want all pellets to hit without decreasing spread? How is that?

 

 Stop rejecting obvious, dude. Shotgun WILL miss some pellets anyway. Making spread tight will just punish you more for missed shots and make weapon less shotgunny.  

 

 

The only valid suggestion here is to add more pellets without increasing damage and reduce possibility of multiple pellets hitting same spot.

 

Thats it.

[Shoutaxeror]

Well, in the end it's the same idea, no ? We agree that T32 needs some change to be less random. The way it's technically done doesn't matter much in the end, but yeah, you could try to be more clear and add some picture, that would be good to understand easily.

[DeeRax]

Redacted until completion of further study.

Edited by (TDM) DeeRax, 11 November 2015 - 02:34 PM.

[Sokram]

Btw, i need someone to clarify that for me.  Why is that considered "balanced" :

 

FLAK  -  8 pellets , 102 damage per shot.

 

Charged T-32  - 8 pellets, 120 damage per shot. 

 

Flak shoots twice while T-32 is charging. And you get just 18 extra damage compared to regular FLAK shot for all that charging.

 

  Maybe im not Hawken enough...But that doesnt look very balanced to me.

 

(No im not talking about damage buff...Just want to know why that 18 damage is so dangerous..)

[JackVandal]

Btw, i need someone to clarify that for me.  Why is that considered "balanced" :

 

FLAK  -  8 pellets , 102 damage per shot.

 

Charged T-32  - 8 pellets, 120 damage per shot. 

 

Flak shoots twice while T-32 is charging. And you get just 18 extra damage compared to regular FLAK shot for all that charging.

 

  Maybe im not Hawken enough...But that doesnt look very balanced to me.

 

(No im not talking about damage buff...Just want to know why that 18 damage is so dangerous..)

Because the t32 can also be fired uncharged, which means you hit with the charged of more damage, then start spamming the uncharged shots for even more damage, while the flack needs to wait.

[Maxunarul]

But by reducing its area of damage it would not make it less effective at close range when he faces light mechs? Scout and Infiltrator are the most difficult (in size and agility) and T32-Bolt is not the accuracy of a Slug or a Sabot.

 

Practically pilots would leave the T32-Bolt and would choose the Reflak, more precision and more damage, the more advantage to face a Scout.

Edited by Maxunarul, 11 November 2015 - 07:23 PM.