My own personal opinion is that the spread on both the bolt and the breacher could be tightened up slightly, and wouldn't be OP. Just tweaked, though, nothing major, they weren't as radical as I initially thought. They are both a little less accurate than the flak, and, remarkably, the corsair's MIRV mode. Mini Flak and Re-Flak are the clear winners for accuracy. Worst shotgun is worst shotgun.
My own personal experience, I'm sure more testing is needed to get a better picture.
Let me know if you'd like to see individual shots from any of the shotguns for closer comparison.
Edited by (TDM) DeeRax, 12 November 2015 - 01:11 AM.
The T32 cannot be compared to mini-flak or reflak as these weapons are burstained.
The purpose of the T32 is to deal 264dmg (charged + MIRV) before dodging back to cover and then use uncharged if necessary, where reflak and mini-flak requires to stay in the open to deal damages.
You can't press F and yolo with a T32 raider.
(BTW i'm still bad with a T32 and it is really frustrating, I do agree that an increase to the efficient range would be welcome).
The T32 cannot be compared to mini-flak or reflak as these weapons are burstained.
The purpose of the T32 is to deal 264dmg (charged + MIRV) before dodging back to cover and then use uncharged if necessary, where reflak and mini-flak requires to stay in the open to deal damages.
You can't press F and yolo with a T32 raider.
(BTW i'm still bad with a T32 and it is really frustrating, I do agree that an increase to the efficient range would be welcome).
Have you played against Silent or Kopra's raiders lately?
If you are going to make any changes I would like to make it as a Benelli
When Terel T32-Bolt fully charged not download a simple shot, his replacement that allows you to make at least 4 micro very quick shots.
Obviously after that you have a few seconds to recharge you can not use the T32-Bolt again. Just thinking attack combinations that could be made with the configuration T-32 Bolt / Benelli + Corsair ... Paw paw paw paw + Bom
But by reducing its area of damage it would not make it less effective at close range when he faces light mechs? Scout and Infiltrator are the most difficult (in size and agility) and T32-Bolt is not the accuracy of a Slug or a Sabot.
Practically pilots would leave the T32-Bolt and would choose the Reflak, more precision and more damage, the more advantage to face a Scout.
Making it work more like the flak in terms of spread is all most people are asking for, and it's not especially hard to hit a scout or infil with a flak shot.
Making it work more like the flak in terms of spread is all most people are asking for, and it's not especially hard to hit a scout or infil with a flak shot.
This is pretty much all I've been asking for, yes.
Making it work more like the flak in terms of spread is all most people are asking for, and it's not especially hard to hit a scout or infil with a flak shot.
I would like to watch videos where drivers face elite Scout with a T32-Bolt, I know I can hit them I'm not sure you can win a duel against one of them with a weapon as imprecise, with the Scout it can be armed with powerful and accurate weapons,
Heat cannon + Tow Missile
Of what I've been using against me going fairly well trained pilots but against senior pilots as the task is complicated.
You have to be realistic, a pilot can be very good but in the end is what sends the characteristics of the weapon, and the T-32 Bolt does great harm but does so randomly, especially if the enemy halfway, because the Precision is not one of his characteristics.
Reduces its area of action and as you add another disadvantage.
I would like to watch videos where drivers face elite Scout with a T32-Bolt, I know I can hit them I'm not sure you can win a duel against one of them with a weapon as imprecise, with the Scout it can be armed with powerful and accurate weapons,
Heat cannon + Tow Missile
Of what I've been using against me going fairly well trained pilots but against senior pilots as the task is complicated.
You have to be realistic, a pilot can be very good but in the end is what sends the characteristics of the weapon, and the T-32 Bolt does great harm but does so randomly, especially if the enemy halfway, because the Precision is not one of his characteristics.
Reduces its area of action and as you add another disadvantage.
There's not many top scouts on EU actually, most people don't play it full time because it dies so easily but they are easy enough to kill in Raider, all you need is a mirv or kla shot and 1-2 T32 shots, it's a matter of timing to blast them during the small pause after a dodge/boost. You can 2 shot them with a mirv + charged T32 followed by another T32. I've beaten and still beat regularly some of the names in the top leaderboards for EU in a Raider vs Scout battle, not saying this to boast but because you asked for the input, and I honestly feel Raider is not at a disadvantage at all vs A classes in general (air dodging zerk or a really good infil can be both a pain for the reason you can't manually detonate your secondary). Scouts, especially flak Scouts, just melt if you engage correctly.
I think we are agreeing here, fights sometime get unnecessarily hard because random spreads make aimed shots stray out of your reticle without being able to predict it. Which is emphasized by small hitboxes on A classes hence your comment on Scouts and Infil sometimes being hard to hit even though you feel you aim it well.
If you reduce the spread slightly, or concentrate most of the pellets in a tighter spread you'll get closer to a flak shot, meaning that you retain the spread of a shotgun but gain precision and more importantly, consistency.
I've beaten and still beat regularly some of the names in the top leaderboards for EU in a Raider vs Scout battle, not saying this to boast but because you asked for the input, and I honestly feel Raider is not at a disadvantage at all vs A classes in general
Raider is pretty much a counter to close-range A mechs imo.
It has more speed, more HP and the burst to 2-shot literally any A mech.
(Charged T32 + MIRV with another charged T32 kills even Zerkers.)
I love FLAK Scout, but against good Raiders it's painful to play.
Slightly off-topic:
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I'm bored nowadays, care to do a Scout duel sometime neon?
It'll probably be more entertaining than pubbing.
Edited by (KDR) Meraple, 12 November 2015 - 05:18 PM.
If you reduce the spread slightly, or concentrate most of the pellets in a tighter spread you'll get closer to a flak shot, meaning that you retain the spread of a shotgun but gain precision and more importantly, consistency.
Well, I understand that the lack of precision makes you away from the center more on every shot. That's not very dramatic in a Ponit D Vulcan for example, the number of missiles launched, but in a T32-Bolt is crucial.
Consider the technique for T32-Bolt
When aiming with this type of weapon is the center of the target (or intuit the path to anticipate his next move) but the intention is to always try to calculate impact the center, is a gun rapid fire and its impact is random
Impact zone shot midway
Imagine you have a static target of 2 cm, and your weapon by its characteristics (low precision) will always has an impact to 3 centimeters from the center and scatter shot 2 feet from where hits (which is what you propose, reduce the area that scatters the pellets) when are you going to hit? if your range precision is always outside the area you want to hit.
Conversely, if your weapon obetivo same static firing into 2 cm wide, 3 cm gives the middle, but his shot propagation is 4 centimeters then you have more chances of doing harm.
In both cases the accuracy is the same (to 3 centimeters from the center) but in the second case do more damage than the first.
And that's what I think would happen if you reduce the area in which scatters the pellets to the T-32-Bolt, will reduce its area of ??spreading the pellets and then we take away from the impact area.
Well, I understand that the lack of precision makes you away from the center more on every shot. That's not very dramatic in a Ponit D Vulcan for example, the number of missiles launched, but in a T32-Bolt is crucial.
Consider the technique for T32-Bolt
When aiming with this type of weapon is the center of the target (or intuit the path to anticipate his next move) but the intention is to always try to calculate impact the center, is a gun rapid fire and its impact is random
Impact zone shot midway
Imagine you have a static target of 2 cm, and your weapon by its characteristics (low precision) will always has an impact to 3 centimeters from the center and scatter shot 2 feet from where hits (which is what you propose, reduce the area that scatters the pellets) when are you going to hit? if your range precision is always outside the area you want to hit.
Conversely, if your weapon obetivo same static firing into 2 cm wide, 3 cm gives the middle, but his shot propagation is 4 centimeters then you have more chances of doing harm.
In both cases the accuracy is the same (to 3 centimeters from the center) but in the second case do more damage than the first.
And that's what I think would happen if you reduce the area in which scatters the pellets to the T-32-Bolt, will reduce its area of ??spreading the pellets and then we take away from the impact area.
I'm not quite sure I understand what you're saying correctly, what I'm saying is to keep the scatter shot of a shotgun (which if I'm understanding correctly you want to keep as well) but make it so pellets can't all go on the extremes of the circle that represents the extremes of the spread.
Here is a quick and dirty image to show what I mean.
Spoiler
Most of the time when you shoot the T32 what is drawn in the third circle happens, but sometimes, randomly, 1 to 5 of the 5 total pellets will go to the extreme of the spread even at close-mid range and dramatically decrease the damage of an aimed shot. Each time one of those pellets strays that far you cut 1/5th of the total damage you should do which is pretty big. Worst case scenario is circle 2, and it can happen.
"Fixing" it can be achieved in various ways like people suggested in this thread, either by increasing the pellet count and decreasing the damage done by each pellet to keep the same damage overall, by having 2 circles with a higher percentage of shots guaranteed to go in the inner circle to quote the last propositions I saw.
If you look at the Salty Stats page (not sure if entirely correct, testing it would be a good idea) the Flak actually has a higher spread by 1.5 points than the T32, yet it doesn't have pellets going on the extremes like this.
Again, the point is to keep the weapon as a shotgun but make it so it can't randomly whiff like it does right now. The whole point is not to increase precision/decrease spread but to increase consistency/decrease randomness.
Slightly off-topic:
Spoiler
I'm bored nowadays, care to do a Scout duel sometime neon?
It'll probably be more entertaining than pubbing.
I'm not quite sure I understand what you're saying correctly, what I'm saying is to keep the scatter shot of a shotgun (which if I'm understanding correctly you want to keep as well) but make it so pellets can't all go on the extremes of the circle that represents the extremes of the spread.
Here is a quick and dirty image to show what I mean.
....
Ok then seems to be a theme view shooting for each weapon, apparently the pilots using circular look is a perception in some cases the firing of T32-Bolt fail.
I do not use the look circular looks I use is this, the yellow box so I made that represents the area (in my opinion) to do impact shrapnel T32-Bolt to be a "valid shot" that is, that of the target.
And here is a video where I do a test of the T32-Bolt
At first I shot distance fight (I do a short distance I guess we all agree that a short distance the T32-Bolt has no problem) is the distance, I reckon, normally face opponents when they have a duel.
The second time I get halfway.
In either case I do not see that whatever shown in the figure you title "Current T32"
In both cases I made simple shots to warm up the gun, and made shots with the fully loaded gun shots followed by other simple. What I have noticed it is that the middle distance, at least three shots one of the pellets stay out of the area "valid shot"
But that does not think it serves to demonstrate that the weapon has failed.
Ok then seems to be a theme view shooting for each weapon, apparently the pilots using circular look is a perception in some cases the firing of T32-Bolt fail.
I do not use the look circular looks I use is this, the yellow box so I made that represents the area (in my opinion) to do impact shrapnel T32-Bolt to be a "valid shot" that is, that of the target.
And here is a video where I do a test of the T32-Bolt
At first I shot distance fight (I do a short distance I guess we all agree that a short distance the T32-Bolt has no problem) is the distance, I reckon, normally face opponents when they have a duel.
The second time I get halfway.
In either case I do not see that whatever shown in the figure you title "Current T32"
In both cases I made simple shots to warm up the gun, and made shots with the fully loaded gun shots followed by other simple. What I have noticed it is that the middle distance, at least three shots one of the pellets stay out of the area "valid shot"
But that does not think it serves to demonstrate that the weapon has failed.
Actually, I think your video demonstrated the t-32's randomness quite well, and reinforces that the weapons in the game shouldn't be so 'rng.'
Your video doesn't show the bullet impact (maybe something to do with graphical settings? Or maybe because of no textures on this map), if I find how to record with my shitty gpu I'll post a video that shows the randomness of the spread pretty effectively imo, it's easy to see when the bullet impact stays on the walls.
I personally think shotgun should be random. Because it is shotgun. But I think flak and t32 charged mode should have +2 pellets (10 instead current 8) and it will be good.
T-32 still my favorite. Its the official weapon of hugs not drugs.
Come on Crafty, you have been officially called out on your lies. Your online reputation is at stake here, this is just like an old school street race running for pink slips. Its run what you brung and hope its enough. Put up or shut the fuzzy bunny up.
Give it the breacher. Back on topic. I think the T32 is fine where it is, but the spread could use a reduction to make it a bit more competitive with the Reflak and Breacher alike. The EOC Repeater is the EOC Repeater and I'll leave it at that.
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Yo dawg, I put a spoiler in your spoiler so you can spoil while you spoil
Ridding the world of evil, one Berzerker at a time.
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