39 replies to this topic

[nilesy]

Please can we get some sort of way to vote kick and or remove option to get rid of an individual, yes I know it will be abused but what other choice is there when playing Seige and there is a dude (can't say names) who never helps with objective, his sole purpose is to get as many kills without dying as possible, spends most of the time in game chat abusing enemy players and then more than likely quits the game before the end.

 

I've had the diZpleasure of being on his team a few times today and honestly going the entire game a player down is a nightmare, one player doesn't pull his weight then the next guy quits because he couldn't be fussed tO stay, then look, 2 players down and its only been a few minutes into the match.

 

I ended up leaving and going to TDM (his K/d is too important to risk playing in TDM) sucks because you cannot have a good seige match without him popping up. I know nothing will happEn, just needed to vent my sadness/anger.

 

[SparkyJJC]

Z...O...K...E

?_?

Edited by Sparky, 08 December 2015 - 12:35 PM.

[StubbornPuppet]

Funny day for me to pop in here.

 

The last time this discussion came up, the mods deleted the topic. Good luck.

[kaiserschmarrn_]

siege is in desperate need of a complete rework either way...

[PoopSlinger]

Siege in low level lobbies sucks so hard.  Its the only time I get frustrated in Hawken.

[Sp3ctrr]

pls no

[dorobo]

[GalaxyRadio]

We don't need votekicks, we only need the option to submit a ticket for whatever reason, so devs support can check some individuals.

 

A vote would only be abused.

 

For example 

 

- my team is completely crushing/stomping the enemy in a siege/tdm/miss assault game, so what i'am going to do? I sit -> people wan't to kick me for being a fair gamer

 

- my team got crushed badly the last match because of a stupid smurf player, next match for some reason my team is slightly better, so iam going to crush the people that was stomping the match before as punishment, but only those if i can -> of course they wan't to votekick me to stomp further

 

Such a system won't work in the hawken community with way too many selfish players, don't even think about it. What we need is a better balancing system, which we don't have at this moment and of course more players, firewall/IPS Ban againts hackers. But this will never happen.

 

Galaxy Radio

[Amidatelion]

Shut the fuzzy bunny up, nilesy.

[BlackWarGreymon]

Shut the fuzzy bunny up, nilesy.

How very reasoned and mature of you.

I brought up the subject of vote to kick years ago- you'll only ever get shouted down for the reasons stated. That said, 'team' vote to kick might work better- you can vote off a player on your own team if they don't pull their weight, but you have no say over players on the enemy team. That way, no one is gonna abuse the system to vote off a good player on their own team unless said player is being a total a$$-hat.

I must admit though, Siege is a nightmare and has been for years- especially in the lower level servers as stated. 1 person carrying 4/5 guys who don't understand and/or refuse to listen and follow the objectives, vs 3/4 good players who just totally stomp the other team and pin them in their base. It simply cannot go on like this- auto balance needs fixing, and there needs to be a training mode for siege- seems no one looks at the rules anymore before playing, or is simply too 'not bright'to grasp what to do.

[maxajcd]

this thread is gonna go bad soon 

Edited by maxajcd, 08 December 2015 - 05:59 PM.

[Amidatelion]

How very reasoned and mature of you.

I brought up the subject of vote to kick years ago- you'll only ever get shouted down for the reasons stated. That said, 'team' vote to kick might work better- you can vote off a player on your own team if they don't pull their weight, but you have no say over players on the enemy team. That way, no one is gonna abuse the system to vote off a good player on their own team unless said player is being a total a$$-hat.

I must admit though, Siege is a nightmare and has been for years- especially in the lower level servers as stated. 1 person carrying 4/5 guys who don't understand and/or refuse to listen and follow the objectives, vs 3/4 good players who just totally stomp the other team and pin them in their base. It simply cannot go on like this- auto balance needs fixing, and there needs to be a training mode for siege- seems no one looks at the rules anymore before playing, or is simply too 'not bright'to grasp what to do.

 

You want reason?

 

Here we go:

 

I propose that under your votekick regime, you would never play another game of Siege, by your own reasoning. You are a verbally abusive fuzzy bunny on any of your accounts and by your own admission are as interested in points as this guy is in his K/D. You are incapable of supporting your team and the majority of your in-game communication is disparaging comments about your team's behaviour, rather than the polite suggestions you seem to believe you are making. 

 

You continuously bring up your alpha experience, but show no sign of having learned anything about siege beyond the basics you claim everyone should need to know, as you never target a ship's guns when two are in the air at the same time and are consistently the second or third person in an EU ring. Never mind poaching EU as you do not have the patience or skill to position yourself or reliably kill a carrier behind enemy lines.

 

tl;dr you are absolutely venting, it's just hot air that has a faint aroma of salt to it.

 

 

dont worry, he is basically maxing out his contributions here

 

oops

Edited by Amidatelion, 08 December 2015 - 05:58 PM.

[maxajcd]

siege does need a rework, also why dont more people play MA?

[Kamile]

Siege in low level lobbies sucks so hard.  Its the only time I get frustrated in Hawken.

How many siege matches aren't low lobby until I join?

I don't think Siege needs a kick system but rather an entire rework to the game mode and balancing. I'll continue to shame people playing only in turret mode. Or those pilots who join my siege match just to EOC Pred while we have a  low-low tier Sharpshoot and a Rocketeer in turret mode on top of Origin. I only offer one time pleasantries but when you continue to not participate I'll continue to call you out. You can shame me for using in game chat as I do but willfully not participating is a far bigger crime than ruinning the time of people who are just starting. Those pilots don't need to play the objective game modes that are already so limited to find and fill. I've stopped caring whether or not I'm shaming new pilots publically because I can't pamper to fuzzy bunnies in a community that has had 3 years to grow and adapt even with such a low population.

TL;DR
Siege shaming is real and I'm for it until it gets to name calling and baseless accusations.

 PS
*Insert BlackWarGreymon call out here*

-The pilot with the most Siege matches played, Kamile

[ATX22]

On Reloaded servers, I wouldn't add vote-kick options.  For community rented servers, I'd make it something that could be switched on or off with some config options attached.  Too much possible trolling and abuse could come from that, also, say the vote fails to kick the person you want booted off the server, who's stopping that person from trying to vote YOU off the server?

[kaiserschmarrn_]

Funny day for me to pop in here.

Refrain from doing that, would you?

[Silverfire]

Can "I played in the alpha" notion be relabeled to be the "I think I know everything about the game because I played a version that's years old" notion

 

because "I played in the alpha" isn't actually support for why people should listen to you because I've heard plenty of fuzzy bunny come out of the mouths of alleged "alpha players"

 

quite honestly I don't give a rat's ass if someone's an alpha player, closed beta player, started at Steam release, started two days ago

 

people should listen if your stuff actually makes sense and checks out with your past reasoning and statements

 

if it makes sense within the game I'll comment on it either positively or negatively

 

if it checks out with everything it's cool

 

basically if you speak consistently

 

and some people only talk fuzzy bunny consistently

 

so at least you're succeeding at something

 

Spoiler

[CrimsonKaim]

That KDR tho. Smurf. 

 

We need AmpliFIRE back. Owning high mmr players since 12.12.12.

Edited by FakeName, 09 December 2015 - 02:09 AM.

[Pleasure_Mortar]

For the same reason you want votekick I'm against it.

There are way too many morons out there.

I played so many bad siege games where only one or two people had a grasp on what was necessary, whereas one or two of the other players kept on insulting the team.

In such a mood the players doing the right thing would have been the primary targets just for telling the kid to stop wasting time with typing and supoort the team.

Siege is the game mode where immaturity and spite really comes out.

Edited by Pleasure_Mortar, 09 December 2015 - 02:30 AM.

[Hyginos]

siege does need a rework, also why dont more people play MA?

 

MA can be confusing for less experienced players, and lots of the higher level players are either burned out on it or so used to fully organized 6v6 MA with comms that pub MA just feels frustrating.

 

I'm not opposed to votekick conceptually, but I think at this point in time the community is far too small for it to work as intended. Name recognition is too prolific for a kick vote to ever be reasonably based on merit.

[PoopSlinger]

-The pilot with the most Siege matches played, Kamile

I'd put my bets on Lavamonster having played the most siege matches.  Lets get Shadeness to find out.  Siege leaderboard with total eu collected, delivered and siege wins and losses.

[claisolais]

The point is, getting EU and deliver it ASAP is NOT the winning strategy. What is the objective? It's TO WIN. 

 

And you cant decide who has the right to vote. Imagine bunch of STUPID EU fools vote you kicked because AA is at risk and you were there to secure it BEFORE A LAUNCH. (And what they will do is to shoot AA from afar, probably even with a shotgun)

 

This W/L ratio clearly showing the guy wants to prevent his K/D ratio as high as possible, I still wanting to know that ID--you gotta warn people.

 

Vote kick? Hack NO.

Edited by claisolais, 09 December 2015 - 06:41 AM.

[StubbornPuppet]

I do not think you can have a VTK for just one game mode.

I do not think you can have a VTK that is player initiated.

 

VTK can work, and does in some other games, but only when it is initiated by the game.  If a set of predetermined conditions are plugged into Hawken which look at things like

• number of seconds idle
• number of team kills
• number of deaths in _ minutes
• number of kills in _ minutes
• time spent on objectives
• etc

then the game can initiate a VTK for that players team only.  It pops up in the corner of the hud for players to push a single button to vote "yes" to kick a player.  Only a large majority vote gets them kicked.

 

That may not be perfect and certainly doesn't help kick every person who probably ought to be... but it cannot be abused.

[nilesy]

I can neither confirm or deny that his name is or isn't the name that has been mentioned earlier.

 

I can however confirm that Amidatelion is a sad lil man.

[SS396]

I'd put my bets on Lavamonster having played the most siege matches.  Lets get Shadeness to find out.  Siege leaderboard with total eu collected, delivered and siege wins and losses.

 

Nah, the better bet is on Evolwar, and he hasn't played very much Hawken in over a year and he'll still beat Lavas numbers by a huge margin.

 

I'm not really sure why Shades lookup doesn't provide all the info that the game provides internally, seems rather silly that he's only made a small portion of it visable and left the rest out.

 

Heres, Evols Siege numbers:

 

Siege Total Matches = 1425.000000

Siege Wins = 1063.000000

Siege.Losses = 362.000000

Siege Teams Abandoned = 0.

 

 

Also, you must take into account that Evol went through at least two account wipes.

 

Hah, I just realized the internal stats for Abandoned are labeled as "Abandonded"  

Edited by SS396, 09 December 2015 - 04:08 PM.

[BlackWarGreymon]

You want reason?
 
Here we go:
 
I propose that under your votekick regime, you would never play another game of Siege, by your own reasoning. You are a verbally abusive fuzzy bunny on any of your accounts and by your own admission are as interested in points as this guy is in his K/D. You are incapable of supporting your team and the majority of your in-game communication is disparaging comments about your team's behaviour, rather than the polite suggestions you seem to believe you are making. 
 
You continuously bring up your alpha experience, but show no sign of having learned anything about siege beyond the basics you claim everyone should need to know, as you never target a ship's guns when two are in the air at the same time and are consistently the second or third person in an EU ring. Never mind poaching EU as you do not have the patience or skill to position yourself or reliably kill a carrier behind enemy lines.
 
tl;dr you are absolutely venting, it's just hot air that has a faint aroma of salt to it.
 
 
 
 
oops

Hah, don't make me laugh.

1) I am verbally abusive... once it becomes very clear that my 'team' has no interest or desire to even attempt winning or getting on objective- that's after I've asked multiple times, politely, for them to either go AA or group up. When 99% of games go this way, patience becomes something of a luxury...

2) Everyone should be interested in getting points- but not by EU gathering, and not by hiding in the base where they will collect very little. Get on point, kill and drive back the other team, earn points. Simples.

3) Incapable of supporting my team? Yeah, that'll explain why I'm always MVP on losing team and the only guy encouraging them to go AA and help. Yep, I'm terrible at trying to rally my team with simple instructions, unless 'go AA' is still to complex for most people to grasp ( I'm guessing it is... ).

4) Ofcourse I'm gonna call out my team(mates) if all they do is hide in base and not do anything constructive- I see the same thing from other people all the time, I'm no angel but I'm not the sole voice of dissent either. When you repeatedly ask people to go AA in advance of either team launching, and all they do is keep on getting unrequired EU or camp on a wall a mile from the AA, 'polite' goes out the window.

5) Siege did change, slightly, during closed Beta, but the fundamentals remain the same- there isn't a huge amount to learn besides not having too many people at an EU station at once, getting the AA first, and not hiding behind walls so that you can actually see and shoot the approaching enemy- checking your flanks helps too obviously. Unless you have some profound wisdom you wish to share?

6) I do target a ships guns whenever it's possible without being ganked by a cloaked infil or pred appearing from nowhere. I doubt you've played in every single game I have in order to see that though...

7) Poaching EU? Lol. I do it all the time; again, I doubt you have seen and watched my every match in order to observe me taking down players who have just filled up with EU. Get a grip.

Calling people salty because they are fed up with the atrociously low standard of game-play by most players is childish, everyone has the right not to have their game ruined by the dearth of intelligent players. Likewise, treating every mode like it's TDM and running away constantly in order to protect ones K/D and MMR isn't exactly a shining example of intelligent game play either. Selfish is a better word- I'm sure GalaxyRadio might feel differently though, after that game of 'run back to base and hide' he played the other day.

Gotta lol at Crafty and poop liking your post- I guess I'm not a member of the K/D & MMR worrier clique...

Edited by BlackWarGreymon, 09 December 2015 - 06:19 PM.

[PoopSlinger]

 

Nah, the better bet is on Evolwar, and he hasn't played very much Hawken in over a year and he'll still beat Lavas numbers by a huge margin.

 

I'm not really sure why Shades lookup doesn't provide all the info that the game provides internally, seems rather silly that he's only made a small portion of it visable and left the rest out.

 

Heres, Evols Siege numbers:

 

Siege Total Matches = 1425.000000

Siege Wins = 1063.000000

Siege.Losses = 362.000000

Siege Teams Abandoned = 0.

 

 

Also, you must take into account that Evol went through at least two account wipes.

 

Hah, I just realized the internal stats for Abandoned are labeled as "Abandonded"  

 

Lave went through at least one of the account wipes and still has double the play time on his account.  What were his total siege matches?  Is there a time spent in AA?  Also, who has the highest EU delivered?

[Hyginos]

1) I am verbally abusive... once it becomes very clear that my 'team' has no interest or desire to even attempt winning or getting on objective- that's after I've asked multiple times, politely, for them to either go AA or group up. When 99% of games go this way, patience becomes something of a luxury...

 

"I do beat people with a crowbar, but only when they reeallly deserve it."

 

The only times I've played with you you would visibly move up and down the scoreboard while alternating between typing diatribes and actually playing. Imagine how often you would win if you spent all that time playing.

 

 

Hah, I just realized the internal stats for Abandoned are labeled as "Abandonded"  

 

Chalk it up to "technical debt".    

Edited by Hyginos, 10 December 2015 - 01:06 PM.

[SS396]

Lave went through at least one of the account wipes and still has double the play time on his account.  What were his total siege matches?  Is there a time spent in AA?  Also, who has the highest EU delivered?

 

Sorry Slinger, but I've completely lost interest in this conversation and can't really be bothered to open up the tools and take a look.  Mostly because of Kamiles gloating and boasting in front of his loyal fanbois last night in his stream.  I wasn't there for 2 minutes before he brought up the subject, so it really must of struck a nerve deep inside.  Somehow he thinks that total siege matches played are some sort of badge of honor that you can express how "good" you are at this game.  Most high tier players completely look down at anyone that plays siege regularly and hardly play it themselves.  So I'm not sure how one person can conclude that playing a shitty unbalanced mode with shitty players makes you better than anyone, if anything it shows how much of a jobless nolifer you are.  Oh well.

[BlackWarGreymon]

"I do beat people with a crowbar, but only when they reeallly deserve it."
 
The only times I've played with you you would visibly move up and down the scoreboard while alternating between typing diatribes and actually playing. Imagine how often you would win if you spent all that time playing.

By that point, it wouldn't make any difference- if I'm typing diatribes then it has reached the point where most of the team is refusing to go near AA, so just me and maybe one other guy trying to still win wouldn't help. All I'd be doing is fighting against the whole other team; 1v6 = dead.

Unless you think I type angry comments about my team when we are winning, which I certainly don't ( laughing at noobs on the other team doesn't count ).

[StubbornPuppet]

It is truly staggering to me that, with the population of Hawken being comprised of something like 75% long-term veteran players that there is a problem getting people to work the objectives in Siege.

 

Has it just become a boredom induced form of entertainment for vets to intentionally avoid the AA to see how frustrated they can make everyone?  Or is it that vets feel that the only way to get newbies and dipschitz to learn to hold the AA is to force them to keep losing until they figure out how to do it on their own?

 

(Nah, it's probably just that players have become so much more concerned about their own personal stats... and know that the AA is the death zone...)

Edited by StubbornPuppet, 11 December 2015 - 07:46 AM.

[Hyginos]

It is truly staggering to me that, with the population of Hawken being comprised of something like 75% long-term veteran players that there is a problem getting people to work the objectives in Siege.

 

There isn't. The problem is that many players only know that they have to play the objective but lack the skills to actually do so, or are simply worse at it than a particular opponent. This can easily look like they don't know how to play the mode, when in reality they are just out classed. Nothing you can say can fix that in a single game, and most players are not willing to admit that the opponent is just flat out better than them anyway. The best thing you can do is try to identify a cornerstone in the opponents team and deal with it specifically.

 

If you must chat, offer solutions. Saying things like "get on the AA" is utterly useless in its generality, and calling your team bad is actively harming your chances of victory. Try something like

• "We might be able to win if we cheese it with techinerator"
• "[player] seems to be a linchpin in that heavy line, lets focus him"
• "our mech composition is too light to deal with that  C stack"
• "I'm going to pull a raider and try to flatten that tech. Put some fire on the point if you can" 
• "we are out ranged. Does anyone play a good sharpie or cowbell?"

All offer specific methods to achieve the goal and have little risk of further tilting your team.

 

EDIT: I should add that by forcing yourself to identify strats like this you will improve your own ability to play tactically. 

 

EDIT 2.0 Cowbell refers to a Hawkins Brawler.

Edited by Hyginos, 11 December 2015 - 09:03 AM.

[StubbornPuppet]

^LOL.  "I know what this team needs.  It needs more cowbell!"

[nepacaka]

I often use something like "focus-fire on 'player', he is most dangerous in enemy team."

[TAZ_]

In Siege I will simply leave the server if my teams don't know how to play it.

[nilesy]

This is what this player does in every game. Isn't even trying

 

[The_Silencer]

On a serious note about the subject..

 

 

Maybe some sort of reputation sub-sysytem (plus new pilot career statistics) might be good idea as first step and instead of an straight vote kick in SIEGE & MA.

 

I posted somewhere else in the forums on the negative aspects of such a feature as is an straight vote-kick..Vote kicks could be easily abused by many and cause a negative impact in the game.

 

However a reputation vote could be a good start against those harming their own team and game mode goals for free. Once a bad reputation by such sus-system is "earned" then the info could be somehow evaluated and further warnings/penalties/action and/or so forth could be taken in order to adress any possible and confirmed bad attitude on the subject.

 

Just an idea though.

Edited by The_Silencer, 02 January 2016 - 07:09 AM.

[ATX22]

On a serious note on the subject..

 

 

Maybe some sort of reputation sub-sysytem (plus new pilot career statistics) might be good idea as first step and instead of an straight vote kick in SIEGE & MA.

 

I posted somewhere else in the forums on the negative aspects of such a feature as is an straight vote-kick..Vote kicks could be easily abused by many and cause a negative impact in the game.

 

However a reputation vote could be a good start against those harming their own team and game mode goals for free. Once a bad reputation by such sus-system is "earned" then the info could be somehow evaluated and further warnings/penalties/action and/or so forth could be taken in order to adress any possible and confirmed bad attitude on the subject.

 

Just an idea though.

 

Until it is no longer free to create a new account in Hawken or at the very least Reloaded finds a way to make bans meaningful, such a system would be only a minor inconvenience to people who actively decided to troll in Hawken.  Earn enough bad rep?  Create a new free email account, create a new free Hawken account, do a little grinding if you can no longer bypass the introductory missions, continue to grief in-game starting with ruining Hawken first-impressions for the new players said troll will be MM'ed in with.

 

If you make rep points, good or bad, something that is affected by other players, say by voting, you're looking an a whole new opened can of worms that will have to be dealt with.

Edited by ATX22, 30 December 2015 - 10:17 AM.

[Nightfirebolt]

I don't think a votekick system would be abused as much as people say it would. The devs could always give it a try, and if it leads to problems, remove it.

 

Siege, of all the modes, needs this more than any other. As a person who plays siege compulsively, I've seen all types of bad behaviour - behaviour that could be squashed quickly and efficiently with a votekick.

 

The community is generally good about knowing what is good behaviour and bad. Awful players (exploiters, hackers, leechers, etc) are usually identified quickly and singled out - But there's nothing anybody can do about them. Support tickets don't really work unless you have video footage, and not everybody is set up for that.

 

Just my two cents.

Edited by Nightfirebolt, 03 January 2016 - 06:54 PM.

[The_Silencer]

Until it is no longer free to create a new account in Hawken or at the very least Reloaded finds a way to make bans meaningful, such a system would be only a minor inconvenience to people who actively decided to troll in Hawken.  Earn enough bad rep?  Create a new free email account, create a new free Hawken account, do a little grinding if you can no longer bypass the introductory missions, continue to grief in-game starting with ruining Hawken first-impressions for the new players said troll will be MM'ed in with.

 

If you make rep points, good or bad, something that is affected by other players, say by voting, you're looking an a whole new opened can of worms that will have to be dealt with.

Obviously I was referring to accounts in which their end-users had accumulated enough game stuff (via purchases..) to make them think twice before going the wrong way.. Even more that if such a system as the one I suggested above (or similar) were implemented someday. Would not be a final solution but might be of some help, IMHO.

 

Anyway, smurfs are a bit our of topic due that, IIRC, the main thread was focusing on bad performance from pilots in Siege, intended or not, and if ignoring the game mode goals is intended then there is where possible solutions (as the one i suggested above) might apport something positive there.

 

The fact is that what you basically may encounter would be as follows:

 

1.- New pilots who don't really know what to do during a Siege match. Valid situation most of the times.. not much to say here...

2.- Pilots (newbies or not) who just decide to ignore goals...

3.- Pilots who just want to molest (even to their own team mates) during a match.

4.- Pilots who get distracted during different stages of the match for a considerable number of reasons...

5.- ... et cetera..

 

Edit: Still... Vote-kick might be abused? Yep. Not a cool thing if were so.

 

P.S - On smurfs: I have some notes on the matter somewhere. But, again and although smurfing may be somehow related too, I still think that is one different subject and not so relevant in here. At any case, if what one pilot want to do in the game is just annoying or abusing others via smurfs then.. important subject too; indeed. But it's another topic, IMHO. Not to be anyhow unpleasant nor too tough with you, mate. Just brainstorming for a while and posting thoughts in here. =)

Edited by The_Silencer, 02 January 2016 - 07:08 AM.