26 replies to this topic

[CaliberMengsk]

Yo! Been a long time since I've really been doing much with regards to Hawken, so I'll try keep this simple and sweet.

 

Last time I played siege with full teams and quality players, much of the collecting energy phase of the game had very little interaction between teams. By this I mean, as soon as the game starts, teams would run out to the energy nodes and whichever node had more of the same team would be "claimed" by that team and until the AA phase, no one really would die. My simple suggestion to counteract this is to have one of the nodes put out less energy per tick, and have something in the ui to signify this.

 

This does one major thing (in theory), make the teams fight over a node rather than just ignore each other. The  "weaker" players (less experienced/skilled) can still go to the small node to help out, but the better players can fight over the large node. And to balance things out a bit, have it be random for a certain duration of time. The same node can be selected (randomly) multiple times, so it's not  just a flipping back and forth, and the duration should also be a random time (with in a range of course). I think this may be helpful to keeping it interesting when not in the AA phase.

 

As stated, it's been a while since I've even talked in the community, and I haven't played much recently, so this may be a bad idea for the current meta, if there even is one right now, but it'd be a simple thing to do {a few timers, change a value on the nodes, add a ui element to show which is more powerful}, and may change things up quite a bit. 

 

That is all. (and just to note :P For me this is pretty short)

[Amidatelion]

The thing is, this supports even worse Siege play. What teams trying to "take" an EU station should be doing is targeting those players gathering EU at any station. The team who "has" the station currently should have no more than 2 players gathering at any point to maximize their collection rate and should be juggling their HP values with what they have collected. Once their HP pool becomes too low, they should leave, making their team's presence at the station weaker, which theoretically should allow a push by the other team. Of course this is all dependent on communication (an impossibility without an organized game due to no VOIP) and players willing to learn better tactics (unlikely, given the amount of people complaining that, say, A-classes are over-powered).

 

By your own criteria these supposedly "experienced and skilled" players will just do the exact same thing all over again: see that a point has been claimed and go settle for the other. Unless the other point is stupidly close (see: last eco) they are still losing EU for making that settlement because the team that "has" a point will already have an advantage because they're returning earlier.

 

What's really necessary is a tutorial for MA and Siege. MA might not need one on the surface, but if you're doing one for Siege you may as well do one for MA. And people definitely need one for Siege, particularly to break them of the mentality that they need to fight over the EU stations or that you can effectively defend the AA without pushing on it.

[kaiserschmarrn_]

I'm pretty sure the solution is to remove siege entirely.

 

[ATX22]

LOL, DM alone isn't going to carry Hawken, the core gaming experience just isn't there for mass appeal (at least for a F2P game..).  Siege and MA are the closest thing Hawken has to some objective based game modes, even if they're both half-***ed.

Edited by ATX22, 02 January 2016 - 03:21 PM.

[nepacaka]

DM alone isn't going to carry Hawken

 

i'm sure it carry enough!

[maxajcd]

I'm pretty sure the solution is to remove siege entirely.

 

i take full credit for making this, coming out with the entire config later, see the username in the corner

Edited by maxajcd, 02 January 2016 - 06:02 PM.

[ticklemyiguana]

i take full credit for making this, coming out with the entire config later, see the username in the corner

can you please, please show me how to do this.

[Nightfirebolt]

Siege is the best mode. It actually requires strategy and teamwork, unlike the others.

 

Granted, I will admit that the whole team needs to cooperate in order for it to work, but when they do, siege is a beautiful thing to behold.

 

Let's not change it, and let's certainly not remove it. I know a lot of people hate it, but that's no reason to remove it entirely. A lot of people love it, myself included, and I don't think any tweaks are necessary. All of the faults of siege lie with uncooperative players, and all we need is a votekick feature to take care of that.

Edited by Nightfirebolt, 02 January 2016 - 08:04 PM.

[bacon_avenger]

Let's not change it, and let's certainly not remove it. I know a lot of people hate it, but that's no reason to remove it entirely. A lot of people love it, myself included, and I don't think any tweaks are necessary. All of the faults of siege lie with uncooperative players, and all we need is a votekick feature to take care of that.

 

Myself, I'd like to see some of the pre-ascension mechanics come back, like the non-everful-EU-emitter.  Something that makes it worth hunting the other team if the emitter you are at is empty and you need just a little bit more EU to launch...

[crockrocket]

can you please, please show me how to do this.

Pretty sure one of the vR (pB) guys knows how to do this... Don't remember who though

[SS396]

can you please, please show me how to do this.

 

Open localization files in text editor, change labels would be my 30 second guess.  Its how many programs allow different languages, but I haven't really tried it so don't hold me to the guess, its just a hunch.

[SS396]

Hah, for a minute there I thought I got poopslingered.  Forums were acting strange.

[kaiserschmarrn_]

[redacted] 

Edited by kaiserschmarrn_, 02 January 2016 - 11:24 PM.

[ticklemyiguana]

[redacted] 

WHY

[SS396]

WHY

 

I dunno, maybe they just like teasing people.

 

All in all, it was a fun little project with a goose to chase around.  Good one.  

 

Spoiler

[Meraple]

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

This is pretty fun.

 

 

 

To mess with the English localization files, go here:

Untick "Read only" in HawkenGame.INT's properties, and then open said .INT with a text editor.

Edited by (KDR) Meraple, 03 January 2016 - 06:17 PM.

[Nightfirebolt]

Myself, I'd like to see some of the pre-ascension mechanics come back, like the non-everful-EU-emitter.  Something that makes it worth hunting the other team if the emitter you are at is empty and you need just a little bit more EU to launch...

 

Yeah, okay. Anything that brings the game back to pre-ascension is fine in my books. :)

[maxajcd]

ME AND KAISER R GONNA MAKE ONE THAT LITERALLY CHANGES EVERY TEXT. ILL PUT IT UP FOR DL LATER

[ATX22]

i'm sure it carry enough!

 

Just checked herokuapp, there's maybe 2 DM servers with people in them.  So, as long as enough means more than one, I suppose DM could.    

 

TDM is probably the more popular game mode currently, but that may change depending on which day and what time of day you check the server listing.

[thirtysix]

I liked siege more when the ship would try to kill you

[StubbornPuppet]

I liked siege more when the ship would try to kill you

I kind of agree... but it was compounding a problem of the losing side being unable to ever recover.  Once a game of Siege went in a particular direction, it never stopped.  Taking out the ship shooting helped allow the AA to be recaptured and the game to be turned around.

 

As for the EU stations... I think they're fine the way they work.  The problem is with 'people'.  People are doing the EU stations wrong - by being greedy little dorks who fail to recognize that they would serve their team much more by doing something else - something that is worth fewer points for the match.

And that is where I would make a change in Siege - fix the points awarded to more favor working the objectives responsibly.  Less points for kills, more points for holding.

[dorobo]

better do big changes

[Arkhaun]

How about bringing back battleships that shoot players again eh? Like if you camp the base, the turrets focus you and beef up turrets as battleships scale in hp

[StubbornPuppet]

How about bringing back battleships that shoot players again eh? Like if you camp the base, the turrets focus you and beef up turrets as battleships scale in hp

Did you happen to read the posts above yours?

[6ixxer]

Not a change to Siege in particular, but I think the game needs some more AOE tactical items like Heat charge.

Something you can toss on/in the AA that will assist in taking it.
thoughts are something like:
1) Redox Charge that pulses and makes ALL players in the effect range take x% more damage for each pulse that lands.
2) Anti-repair Charge that reduces heal rate for ANY mech attempting to repair in its radius.

They should have a largish radius to that if you put it on top of the AA close to the launcher it encompasses virtually the entire inside.
If you place at the outside edge the it should reach just past the centre inside so it would still be possible to fight/repair from inside the back end without effect. If you toss it inside them it should mean the team holding has to have superior numbers to have a chance of holding it as they will take more damage and/or be unable to repair unless they back out and then return.

These will benefit the team attempting to take the AA or an EU station, and some possible strategy in other objective based or games that have narrow choke points. They would be useful, but situational as they would affect the attacker equally, so eg throw redox charge in and wait for pulses to effect enemies. follow up by running in and tossing anti-repair as far in enemy side as possible so they need to evacuate the area to repair instead of just moving outside on their side (or they need to quickly duck out of the redox range then return and pwn you before they need to repair).

Thoughts?
Worth its own suggestion thread?

Cheers,
6ixxer

[ATX22]

Not a change to Siege in particular, but I think the game needs some more AOE tactical items like Heat charge.

Something you can toss on/in the AA that will assist in taking it.
thoughts are something like:
1) Redox Charge that pulses and makes ALL players in the effect range take x% more damage for each pulse that lands.
2) Anti-repair Charge that reduces heal rate for ANY mech attempting to repair in its radius.

They should have a largish radius to that if you put it on top of the AA close to the launcher it encompasses virtually the entire inside.
If you place at the outside edge the it should reach just past the centre inside so it would still be possible to fight/repair from inside the back end without effect. If you toss it inside them it should mean the team holding has to have superior numbers to have a chance of holding it as they will take more damage and/or be unable to repair unless they back out and then return.

These will benefit the team attempting to take the AA or an EU station, and some possible strategy in other objective based or games that have narrow choke points. They would be useful, but situational as they would affect the attacker equally, so eg throw redox charge in and wait for pulses to effect enemies. follow up by running in and tossing anti-repair as far in enemy side as possible so they need to evacuate the area to repair instead of just moving outside on their side (or they need to quickly duck out of the redox range then return and pwn you before they need to repair).

Thoughts?
Worth its own suggestion thread?

Cheers,
6ixxer

 

Depends on how Reloaded handles their first big patch to Hawken.  None of us still know if they're going to keep Hawken lumbering down the same path as far as gameplay mechanics and such goes as ADH/meteor were, or if they're going to think outside the box that Hawken has found itself sitting in.  I can see arguments on both sides of the fence for both of your suggestions.  Ultimately though, the biggest unknown for me is if Reloaded is willing to go beyond considering either idea.

Edited by ATX22, 12 January 2016 - 07:42 PM.

[6ixxer]

I think these fit well along side heat charge as area denial items. Like heat charge, they should affect both teams so you need to place it in the best strategic place for your team.

 

Camping choke points and AA are almost universally seen as making for poor matches. They would go quite a way to changing how fights work at choke points and AA, forcing the fight to move around more, and I don't see how anyone can call that a bad thing.

 

Josh has generally welcomed suggestions for more items and internals to change the gameplay while not necessarily making any one mech OP. He seems to be on our side and if we want items like these then I'm sure he will be 'open to it' ;)

 

Cheers,

6ixxer