33 replies to this topic

[nepacaka]

Many times i see this camera angle at several players. Mostly, the same players. i mean, it is not random bug, it happen only with "the same" players sometimes.

i use kill-cam in config
bForceFirstPerson=true

 

picture:

early i think it is bug, and it happening when enemy mech killing me while he use ability. but than i start notice, that i mistake. it can happen in any moment.
And it look like players use special tweking to got 3rd person view (in original Unreal 2007 you can do the same)

So, what is this?

- config "bind" for button, which allow change FPS/TPS mode?
- cheat? (personally, for me it is look like cheat)
- bug? if it bug, what cause it? (even if it bug with killcam, standart hawken TPS-camera dont have an angle, and stay at center of the screen)


any information what wrong with these players, which camera looks veeeery strange? i should say, that mostly i notice this only on "strong" player. when nubs kill me, they never have this camera angle, and i see only throught their eyes.

This guy on picture don't use aimbot or something else, he is just another "suicidal raider", but why this "camera bug" not happen with other players and happen many times only with him? it is not first time when i notice this when i see throught his eye by kill-cam.

also, sometimes player can be drawing from left side of screen. it is really look like some players can swap their camera between "left angle third person camera" and "right angle third person camera".

anyone can explain? I want to know.

Edited by nepacaka, 13 January 2016 - 06:47 PM.

[DallasCreeper]

I'm pretty confident that is a bug

[nepacaka]

I'm pretty confident that is a bug

 

firstly i think the same too. but why sometimes player can be at left part of screen?
why it happen with the same player (sometimes several time in one match)? it is really strange.
most of time it happen with assault, predator and raider.

sadly, but not so long ago i clean my screenshots folder (i have different the same screnshoots, but still not asking hwk-support about this), but i'm sure i can easily made several screen if some of players which often have changing camera when they kill me.

 

edit:probably i should throw it to support...

Edited by nepacaka, 13 January 2016 - 08:42 PM.

[coldform]

Does the pilot who kills you die before you switch to his camera?

[nepacaka]

Does the pilot who kills you die before you switch to his camera?

no. ssmithh kill me, it is he on screenshot.

 

also, if pilot who kill you die, you see a blank screen not seeking of any mech. camera just stay and looking on last place where pilot die.
i told you, it is not first time when i see this "wrong camera". it happens often with certain players

Edited by nepacaka, 13 January 2016 - 10:19 PM.

[DallasCreeper]

I think it might have do do with internals or abilities that increase movement speed. I've seen this camera bug on G1 and G2 raiders while they were blitzing, preds going into stealth(increases walk speed) and mechs with a power surger/evasive device(rarely). I believe the camera staying still when both you and your assailant die is an intentional part of the game. With the person who killed you reduced to a mechy slag, what would the camera track?

[nepacaka]

Assault don't have increasing speed ability, but I also see assaults. But I can't remember assault have evasive device or not. I trying collect more examples in future. But it is good theory. Never see this bug on G2 (maybe cuz it rare mech, and chance to get it lower)

But still strange, even if it bug caused by speed/ability, why game not use standart camera when player stay in center. Instead game use "special" camera which look like created specially for corner peeking purpose. Standart camera is also have "shaking" effect. But this camera is solid.

Edited by nepacaka, 14 January 2016 - 07:20 AM.

[Pleasure_Mortar]

what if there's a way to force 3rd person view? makes sense for raiders in CQC and for face hugging and gives predators also a huge advantage. as for assaults they are the most commonly used mech so if it is available it's obvious that someone would use it on an assault as well.

Edited by Pleasure_Mortar, 14 January 2016 - 08:28 AM.

[StubbornPuppet]

I noticed this same thing almost two years ago.  Like you, nepacaka, I noticed that it was always the same players - even in different matches on different servers, the same players would show third person.  I had, at that time, also noticed that it always happened on players who's game-play made me say, "hmm."

 

There were 3 other people at the time, on the old forums, who also posted that they were noticing this as well - with the same observation that the players game-play seemed... 'interesting'.

 

We were all promptly told that it was just a random bug and nothing at all to be curious about.  I am still not convinced.

[_incitatus]

I noticed this same thing almost two years ago.  Like you, nepacaka, I noticed that it was always the same players - even in different matches on different servers, the same players would show third person.  I had, at that time, also noticed that it always happened on players who's game-play made me say, "hmm."

 

There were 3 other people at the time, on the old forums, who also posted that they were noticing this as well - with the same observation that the players game-play seemed... 'interesting'.

 

We were all promptly told that it was just a random bug and nothing at all to be curious about.  I am still not convinced.

 

Same here, but I'm not convinced it isn't a bug.

[Pleasure_Mortar]

I noticed this same thing almost two years ago.  Like you, nepacaka, I noticed that it was always the same players - even in different matches on different servers, the same players would show third person.  I had, at that time, also noticed that it always happened on players who's game-play made me say, "hmm."

 

There were 3 other people at the time, on the old forums, who also posted that they were noticing this as well - with the same observation that the players game-play seemed... 'interesting'.

 

We were all promptly told that it was just a random bug and nothing at all to be curious about.  I am still not convinced.

That can most definitely be said about the player nepacaka mentioned.

[StubbornPuppet]

I would guess, that if it's nothing malicious, like an actual bot or hack, some folks have figured out how to use the code for third person view found in the Explore Maps mode in the regular matches.

[nepacaka]

I'm 90% sure it is not a bug.
Like early we have 180 fov and increase camera distance when you repairing through config... It is look very similar.

[nepacaka]

Unreal 3 "Outsider" mutator. sorry, it is UT2004, but i'm sure i see the same mod/mutator for U3 before.
99.9% the same with my screnshoot (+/- fov angle)

Edited by nepacaka, 14 January 2016 - 12:22 PM.

[Pleasure_Mortar]

I just had the same weird 3rd person view after I got killed by a raider.

Later the same player, again with a raider  had a normal 1st person view.

Edited by Pleasure_Mortar, 14 January 2016 - 03:44 PM.

[nepacaka]

https://community.pl...c-vs-tdm-scrim/
etho use the same spectator camera angle in this stream.
maybe some players find a way how to use this observer feature without the rights in regular matches?

[Pleasure_Mortar]

https://community.pl...c-vs-tdm-scrim/
etho use the same spectator camera angle in this stream.
maybe some players find a way how to use this observer feature without the rights in regular matches?

I don't think that the camera position is controlled by the server.

IMO, the spectator needs special rights as he enters the server as a D-class.

Edited by Pleasure_Mortar, 15 January 2016 - 05:16 AM.

[Ashfire908]

I'm 90% sure it is not a bug.
Like early we have 180 fov and increase camera distance when you repairing through config... It is look very similar.

It's probably a bug. You are using a hidden feature after all, doubt it was fully tested.

[nepacaka]

It's probably a bug. You are using a hidden feature after all, doubt it was fully tested.

 

most of problem, that is always happen with the same players. on different servers/maps, different battle situations, but it is the same players.
this is why i'm so suspicious. for example, i never see this bug on low-tier servers.
 

I don't think that the camera position is controlled by the server.

 

i mean not this.
i mean that someone can find a way how to use special commands (like behindview in U3) through console (or maybe like U3 mutators use scripts)
 

Edited by nepacaka, 15 January 2016 - 05:13 PM.

[phed]

It's probably a bug. You are using a hidden feature after all, doubt it was fully tested.

 

for anyone without experience in speaking with programmers, please allow me to translate for you.  

 

in this statement ashfire is being intentionally vague while not straying from any facts, as you see - a bug is any undesired behavior from a program.  this is definitely a bug, you're not supposed to see a kill cam look like that.  

 

but bugs have conditions that are reproducible, and one of the conditions is using the hidden feature of the first person kill cam, but he didn't say that another condition couldn't be the other player's dirty hax.

[Ashfire908]

for anyone without experience in speaking with programmers, please allow me to translate for you.  
 
in this statement ashfire is being intentionally vague while not straying from any facts, as you see - a bug is any undesired behavior from a program.  this is definitely a bug, you're not supposed to see a kill cam look like that.  
 
but bugs have conditions that are reproducible, and one of the conditions is using the hidden feature of the first person kill cam, but he didn't say that another condition couldn't be the other player's dirty hax.

It's vague because I'm speculating on something I'm not familiar with. My gut reaction is "bug". Everything else would be further speculation on my part. I just don't really buy that it's some super-ultra-uber hack to protect cheaters from the small percentage of people that did the first person killcam ini tweak. The hud doesn't even work right in the first person view anyway, iirc.

[crockrocket]

It's vague because I'm speculating on something I'm not familiar with. My gut reaction is "bug". Everything else would be further speculation on my part. I just don't really buy that it's some super-ultra-uber hack to protect cheaters from the small percentage of people that did the first person killcam ini tweak. The hud doesn't even work right in the first person view anyway, iirc.

The issue with the HUD is that it displays your ability icon rather than that of the player who killed you.

[Ashfire908]

The issue with the HUD is that it displays your ability icon rather than that of the player who killed you.

I thought I remembered some of the other readouts not working as well. Must be thinking of something else.

[DallasCreeper]

It also shows your items and not theirs

[_incitatus]

It also shows your items and not theirs

Maybe that is intentional, so you can't see how many items they have left, or if their ability is on/off cool down.

[phed]

It is a bug, not mutually exclusive.

No one is saying it is an intended behavior, just that it usually happens when a suspicious person kills you, and you have the 1st person kill cam enabled (which looks funny cause it was just a hold over inside the unreal engine and never tweaked for hawkens hud and cockpit implementation).

[nepacaka]

If it is a bug, will be good to know what caused it, because it never happen with ordinary players.
I have some ideas.
1) it caused by "item regenerator" internal.
2) I'm not sure that it caused by mech ability (but I see this bug when enemy not use ability), but maybe.
3) I'm not sure that it cased by internals which give your speed, but... Maybe
4) It caused by additional soft.

I trying test it later, maybe pick raider with the same internal like on screenshot, and kill someone while ability in 1vs1.
I 100% know, that you can see this thirdperson view more than 1 times for some players. Easy to say, it happen not all the time, but very often in one match. So, if it happen by mech ability or internals, it can be easily reproduced with raider+internals/items+reflak35 which you can on screenshot. If not... I'm will be start thinking that this is caused by unfair *.ini tweaks/commands, or additional soft. I don't see another way.

Like I say, I'm not very good player, and I can die alot in fight even if I play with low-tier players (fight 1vs5 it's my hobby :D), but I see this bug only by strong player who have not bad mmr (or smurfing and have a high skill). This is why it look so strange and suspicious for me. I can't understand why low-skill raider (or other) not caused this bug. But it will be fun if I can reproduce it with my raider. I trying to tell about result.

Most of bad thing right now, that I'm again broken my HDD... (q_q)
So, I'm trying to test it later when I repair my potato PC. Maybe week or two...

[StubbornPuppet]

I'd say it just happens when what the client on one end reads doesn't match what the client on the other end reads and a default, buried deep in UE3 engine is all that's left for it to do.

[MechFighter5e3bf9]

i think it goes like this, player a kills player b while player c joins server and then player a is rapidly killed before player b has enabled killcam and so in that moment there is no player for killcams available yet new joiner is technicaly in spectator mode for a split second and so killcam has targeted him instead

 

 

btw using first person killcams can give false positives if you think someone is snaping aim as the code does predict movements to smoothen it out and the resolution of the crosshairs movement will surely not be as fine as on the client

Edited by Bastardo, 20 April 2016 - 10:19 PM.

[Massive_Assailant_Stingray]

If you're willing to take my word, it is likely, mostly, a bug. I say mostly because there is always the possibility this could be caused by multiple things.

 

But when ever I would kill someone who was using the first person kill cam, I would always be viewed in third person. I saw it in somebodies video or stream, I asked Amid about it and he said "dunno". So I was one of those "always viewed in third person" guys.

 

Anyways I don't think anyone here has every seriously thought I cheated, so take that for what it's worth.

 

Anyone except for all those people who look at my, over-the-character-limit-as-is-imposed-on-them, name after getting killed by me once and then jumping the shark.

[StubbornPuppet]

I use the first person kill cam.  But I have asked and been told that I appear normally on their kill cam.

[Massive_Assailant_Stingray]

Just to clarify on my previous post.

 

I don't use the first person kill cam, or any ini tweak. When ever I am killed by someone using the first person kill cam tweak, I am viewed in third person. I am a huge cheater the best ringer NA.

 

If it is a bug, will be good to know what caused it, because it never happen with ordinary players.
I have some ideas.
1) it caused by "item regenerator" internal.
2) I'm not sure that it caused by mech ability (but I see this bug when enemy not use ability), but maybe.
3) I'm not sure that it cased by internals which give your speed, but... Maybe
4) It caused by additional soft.

I trying test it later, maybe pick raider with the same internal like on screenshot, and kill someone while ability in 1vs1.
I 100% know, that you can see this thirdperson view more than 1 times for some players. Easy to say, it happen not all the time, but very often in one match. So, if it happen by mech ability or internals, it can be easily reproduced with raider+internals/items+reflak35 which you can on screenshot. If not... I'm will be start thinking that this is caused by unfair *.ini tweaks/commands, or additional soft. I don't see another way.

Like I say, I'm not very good player, and I can die alot in fight even if I play with low-tier players (fight 1vs5 it's my hobby :D), but I see this bug only by strong player who have not bad mmr (or smurfing and have a high skill). This is why it look so strange and suspicious for me. I can't understand why low-skill raider (or other) not caused this bug. But it will be fun if I can reproduce it with my raider. I trying to tell about result.

Most of bad thing right now, that I'm again broken my HDD... (q_q)
So, I'm trying to test it later when I repair my potato PC. Maybe week or two...

 

I used the item regen quite some time ago, but never in the play time of my last hawken binge.

 

I always played scout so that'd have been my ability.

 

I did not use speed internals. Being a prestigious member of the TPG team Automatic Mustangs, I of course ran the cookie cutter orb-lord build. (in the few times I've played since TPG i've completely eradicated that build, so don't hate.)

 

I do not use additional software, I did often play while connected to team speak, but so do all TPG members, and I don't think this bug affected all of them.

 

I'm on a new computer now. It's been a long time since I've played, but if you'd like to do some testing, I'm more than willing to do some runs on both machines and see if there's any difference.

 

Though there is likely an incredible amount of variables to account for, pinning down one may be quite a goose chase.

Edited by Massive_Assailant_Stingray, 21 April 2016 - 09:27 PM.

[DemitronPrime]

some one told me once the aimjunky aimbot has a 1stperson kill cam blocker...

 

I personally wouldnt know fuzzy bunny about this as i dont USE it but ever since they mentioned it i have noticed a few specific people never get 1st person kill cams...

 

someone else also said that SOMETIMES if the person taps C right after killing you the cam bugs to the side slightly rather than going 1st person

[ReversusRex]

Although it seems like the discussion is leading elsewhere, I thought it would be relevant to point out that borderlands 1 and 2 (fps games built on unreal engine) have mods that can simply be added to the .ini files to allow for this 3rd person camera view. The thing is, having these mods on completely throws off the reticle and makes it pretty hard to aim at things. I have always been curious to see how implementing this would work on Hawken. If it was true that someone was applying this mod and only people who force 1st person spectator mode are seeing it, it might suggest that the force 1st person mode is actually just forcing your game to mimic the perspective of the player you're spectating.

Edited by ReversusRex, 20 September 2016 - 04:37 PM.