20 replies to this topic

[JeffMagnum]

Volleys do 240 on direct hits and 228 if the mines are walked over now. It's also not possible to detonate your mines by shooting them with more pucks, but ones you've laid on the ground are still destroyable by other players. I think Civ was pretty broken in its previous state, but nerfing its damage that hard while also making it much more difficult to do damage reliably seems a little excessive.

More generally, I'm also curious if stealth changes are going to continue to be a thing in the future especially if they're more subtle adjustments than this that are hard to detect intuitively.

Edited by JeffMagnum, 02 June 2017 - 11:24 AM.

[nepacaka]

Civ was born dead.
btw, i think we need wait a little before buff it.

Edited by nepacaka, 02 June 2017 - 04:29 AM.

[dorobo]

Eh? I heard someone saying that it's op. You veterans.. so hard to please you all.

 

Btw what stealth does it have!? 

 

[Morquedeas]

Sorry it was bringing my health down to 222 if I remember so it's 450-210=240 on direct hits and and 450-222=228 when stepping on them.

I definitely not an expert on eoc stuff but generally I assumed the issue with the Civ was that it's terrible against better players that know how to move and hold spacebar, and devastating against newbies wgo stand still.

I think Civ needs more dps and quality of life changes and less instagib potential. 240 is pretty high on the scale of burst in Hawken.

Though I also think time and energy should be spent towards getting the game working first. Stuff like hitboxes affects balance too much to be addressed later.

[nepacaka]

imho, Civ no need dmg buff due the some reasons.
what this mech is really need, is a buff dodge cooldawn to not sux alot when enemy catch you (but you still sux),
let say, 1.35 second for G1, and 1.25 second for G2 Civ.
or even 1.3 for G1, and 1.2 for G2 Civ.
it is not a mech which you should balanced by "super-high damage, but super-worse all other stats

Civ also can do some things at point-blank, and if enemy ignore you. better way to stand from left (or right) side to enemy, to not let them evade your puck with dodge, when enemy fighting with someone else from your team.


better think how added a falloff damage (or some spread) for Vytro "electro-grille" :D

p.s. Civ ability is awful. better way which i find is use it when you shoot at point-blank, but it is near to impossimble got this timing for me. press it when you get rocket in face is nearbly to impossible for me, due the ping/servers and probably my bad bad hands.
 

Edited by nepacaka, 02 June 2017 - 07:27 AM.

[Amidatelion]

The Civ needs a ground-up rework, not nerfs or buffs or playing with what its weapons can do. It was a bad design idea, brought forward to fill that stupid "36 mechs on launch" marketing bullfuzz. It is clear that the design of the mech in its current state, from its stats to its weapons and ability, is broken and uninspired.  

 

Obviously this is not a thing that is going to be fixed now given the broken state of the game. Personally, I think the best thing to do is collectively ignore the mech as a community and let the devs finish hotfixing the game and then pressure them to fix the stupid thing. As much as I hate what's been done to the Gren, the only other mech that faces as bad a design as the Civ, that is just a matter of reverting to a previous configuration. The Civ needs closer attention.

[nepacaka]

The Civ needs closer attention.

The Civ needs TOW in right hand. And it solve ALL his problems.

[wischatesjesus]

The Civ needs TOW in right hand. And it solve ALL his problems.

 

A GL in its right hand maybe, and a heat cannon in its left. 

 

And give it the hon parts and rename it pusher.

[dorobo]

Just do the machinegun that shoots these things already.. blaster type of thing.

[JeffMagnum]

Eh? I heard someone saying that it's op. You veterans.. so hard to please you all.

 

Btw what stealth does it have!? 

 

It was up until sometime yesterday. Earlier in the day it was doing the old amount of damage with mines that detonated on contact with each other, but when I got on late at night it was functioning like I described. And sorry for being vague, stealth nerfing is just when the change isn't announced, not a nerf to the mech's stealth.

 

 

The Civ needs a ground-up rework, not nerfs or buffs or playing with what its weapons can do. It was a bad design idea, brought forward to fill that stupid "36 mechs on launch" marketing bullfuzz. It is clear that the design of the mech in its current state, from its stats to its weapons and ability, is broken and uninspired.  

 

Obviously this is not a thing that is going to be fixed now given the broken state of the game. Personally, I think the best thing to do is collectively ignore the mech as a community and let the devs finish hotfixing the game and then pressure them to fix the stupid thing. As much as I hate what's been done to the Gren, the only other mech that faces as bad a design as the Civ, that is just a matter of reverting to a previous configuration. The Civ needs closer attention.

 

Yeah, I agree that Civ was probably the most frustrating way to push EOC into (temporary) viability. I prefer it being underpowered to overpowered, but hopefully something will eventually find the right balance using EOC. 

[nepacaka]

A GL in its right hand maybe, and a heat cannon in its left. 

 

And give it the hon parts and rename it pusher.

but it is not civ. it is pusher. pusher don't have a problem.

Edited by nepacaka, 02 June 2017 - 12:24 PM.

[XPloyt]

 

More generally, I'm also curious if stealth changes are going to continue to be a thing in the future especially if they're more subtle adjustments than this that are hard to detect intuitively.

 

This would make for a much more unbiased critique, wouldn't it? Instead of players preemptively clamoring to make "this" or "that" better or worse based on what they've read, they can play and come to a conclusion that the devs could gain insight from.

 

I played the Ord prior to knowing that they nerfed the multiplier damage and had explained why it sucks; even then I was a bit biased, which I'm not ashamed of admitting. My stance now is: It's a much more challenging mech to play and an adjustment to playstyle, and as much as I think it is still a bit underpowered, the Ord has moments where it shines.

Edited by XPloyt, 02 June 2017 - 01:31 PM.

[JeffMagnum]

This would make for a much more unbiased critique, wouldn't it? Instead of players preemptively clamoring to make "this" or "that" better or worse based on what they've read, they can play and come to a conclusion that the devs could gain insight from.

 

I played the Ord prior to knowing that they nerfed the multiplier damage and had explained why it sucks; even then I was a bit biased, which I'm not ashamed of admitting. My stance now is: It's a much more challenging mech to play and an adjustment to playstyle, and as much as I think it is still a bit underpowered, the Ord has moments where it shines.

 

I'm talking about something along the lines of a 5 DPS or so nerf to SMC where it wouldn't be noticeable in most situations but could impact weapon choice. Civ and Ord were both very obviously nerfed, but it'd be hard to get feedback on a minor change like that when the majority of players wouldn't even be aware anything changed and might just blame it on missing more shots than usual or bad hitreg. 

[WmMoneyFrmMissouri]

I was playing civ with a flak last night. Probably not ideal but I had a lot of fun with it.

[Chaplain5]

The Civ needs a ground-up rework, not nerfs or buffs or playing with what its weapons can do. It was a bad design idea, brought forward to fill that stupid "36 mechs on launch" marketing bullfuzz. It is clear that the design of the mech in its current state, from its stats to its weapons and ability, is broken and uninspired.  

 

Obviously this is not a thing that is going to be fixed now given the broken state of the game. Personally, I think the best thing to do is collectively ignore the mech as a community and let the devs finish hotfixing the game and then pressure them to fix the stupid thing. As much as I hate what's been done to the Gren, the only other mech that faces as bad a design as the Civ, that is just a matter of reverting to a previous configuration. The Civ needs closer attention.

 

Yeah, honestly after seeing a ton of opinions on the Civ (pretty much all of them negative) my conclusion is that - unfortunately - it maybe just shouldn't exist.

 

Some ideas can be fixed. But it's looking like a dual EOC mech just can't work. I don't have enough info on other weapons with the Civ so I'm assuming default loadout.

 

Which is unfortunate, because the Civ sounded like fun at first. I like playing defense and it sounded appealing. But it's going to need a major rework before I bring it into any matches.

[dorobo]

works for me 

[nepacaka]

I find that the shooting from both hand separately working fine.
I mean, firstly I always try made a great alpha, but than I start shoot from one hand, enemy dodge, and give him another 6 bullets from second hand.
Separately shooting with 3 bullets also can be good sometimes, against a class. It also allow you spam whole floor of bullets.
I can't say that civil is good, it is interesting to piloting.

But! Due the Civ alternative weapons, I still feel that with TOW it can be a ideal mech. Flak+tow, slug+tow, eok+tow... All of this is super cool weapon combination to play.

[Draigun]

Wasn't the CIV overpowered because the EOC splash damage was instantly applied - that is, the bug where EOC pucks detonate instantly when they hit a hard surface? FWIW, the splash damage was able to penetrate shield barriers - effectively making them useless against the EOC. I think they fixed that bug (though depending on who you ask, some say it should be a feature of the EOC repeater).

 

If they did nerf the damage as well, I agree, that is too much nerf applied to the CIV. The EOC playstyle forces you to gain the height advantage - if you can't do damage reliably on level or equal ground, then it is practically useless.

Edited by Draigun, 04 June 2017 - 10:52 AM.

[StubbornPuppet]

I feel like the CIV is just an unreliable mech.  I mean that it's a little OP in a handful of situations, but then quickly becomes worthless in all others.  It's kind of a "map-specific" mech as well - some maps are ideal for it, others turn it into a really poor choice (not to say that most mechs don't have some maps for which they are better than others, because they do,  just that it goes to extremes with CIV).

 

For example: It's a little OP when you have the high ground against 1 or 2 average players and enough of a choke-point to control their advance... but add another player, make it even ground, or let a single player in an A or B class get remotely close to you and the CIV is automatically useless.

 

And, per my topic about switching right and left arms, I just can't get used to the right button controlling the left hand and vice versa - it'd probably be a lot easier to use this (and many other mechs) if I could just toggle right and left arms.

[WillyW]

They also nerfed Predator mines as well. Neither of the EOC mines detonate themselves. They also removed the feature that the EOC mines would explode once you've used all of them up. Instead of exploding, the mines just disappear completely.

[StubbornPuppet]

They also nerfed Predator mines as well. Neither of the EOC mines detonate themselves. They also removed the feature that the EOC mines would explode once you've used all of them up. Instead of exploding, the mines just disappear completely.

 

Crap, you're right.

 

Still, I'm going to assume, for now, that this is a bug, or unintentional.  For the first couple of days following the "big update", EOC pucks weren't even sticking to floors and walls, they would just disappear the moment they hit.  They are sticking and staying now... so they addressed that.  Let's hope the same is true for the exploding and remote detonation.