52 replies to this topic

[Mackindale]

Hawken is not over yet.

I am willing to put up $20,000 to buy the entire IP, all code, all assets, and all other licenses involved with the entire Hawken project. This purchase must include 2011-2014 era code as well as all modern versions.

I understand the core mechanics of Hawken, and am willing to supervise development of new versions, to ensure purity of the ideals and aesthetics of the original Hawken. There could be name/lore changes, but only to suit my purposes as a person who is serious about returning to the original glory.

If the current owner of this software is willing to sell for a fair price, additional details about this purchase attempt can be provided.

Would anyone want to join me? Can anyone pitch in $10,000 or so? A few hands up here could change things. I will allow co-funders to join the new Hawken company, with the understanding that I will not allow corruption to the true values of this game.

I just want the fans here to be happy.

If there is any desire to sell this IP, and all of its assets, I am a willing buyer.
Just message me, or let me know on this thread.

Thanks,

~Mackindale

Edited by Mackindale, 27 October 2017 - 01:02 AM.

[Mackindale]

If you're a fan of this game willing to pitch in at least $5000, send me a message, or leave a comment here letting me know.

Edited by Mackindale, 27 October 2017 - 02:38 AM.

[DallasCreeper]

If they bought it for $30,000, I doubt they'll sell it for 20. 

Edited by DallasCreeper, 27 October 2017 - 03:41 AM.

[nepacaka]

sound nice, but i think they don't do that.

[dorobo]

They can't before the console version flops.

[EM1O]

wrong venue.  you should contact them via 505games website business/commercial link (i'm not even going to check on this).  gaming community forum likely won't get you a response.  i doubt if they give a sh!t enough to even read these any longer.

let google be your friend. 

 

btw:  ReLoaded's purchase price was $50,000USD, so don't be surprised if you don't receive a response.  they may choose to use the financial collapse for a tax reduction on games for which they do have a positive cash flow.

Edited by EM1O, 27 October 2017 - 06:21 AM.

[Sp3ctrr]

i'll raise your offer by ONE (1) dollar

 

hah

[angryhampster]

great idea.

 

w'ell need to change the name of the game on PC.

 

i doubt i'll ever fully quit hawken on pc.  the visuals, versatility, and power i feel in a mech is powerful. lol

Edited by angryhampster, 27 October 2017 - 06:29 AM.

[SparkyJJC]

we have reached the bargaining stage of the 'loss-of-a-loved-one' cycle

[Mackindale]

I don't mind joint-ownership, which is why I posted here.

If any fans here have the funds to contribute to this, then I'll contact them more officially after-the-fact.

I've got $20k in funding, and that's my best offer. If anyone wants to help me raise it, then put your money forward.

That's all.

[Amidatelion]

If you can tell me, within the next 24 hours, how Reloaded acquired the IP, I will match all of your funds.

If you can describe how the front end interacts with the multiple backends, I will multiply that matching by 5.

Go.

[angryhampster]

If you can tell me, within the next 24 hours, how Reloaded acquired the IP, I will match all of your funds.

If you can describe how the front end interacts with the multiple backends, I will multiply that matching by 5.

Go.

 

:)

[Mackindale]

If you can tell me, within the next 24 hours, how Reloaded acquired the IP, I will match all of your funds.

If you can describe how the front end interacts with the multiple backends, I will multiply that matching by 5.

Go.

https://www.forbes.c...d-acquisitions/

I would get a lawyer to help me. I've got the money, is all. Not the experience with IPs, nor do I know company history. I would hope that you're interested for the sake of keeping this game from disappearing from history. It's been years since I've played, to be honest, but Hawken has enough of a place in my heart to at least make this thread.

As for the front-end and back-end, I've got experience in software development, but not game development. So I've got only enough knowledge to be able to hire competent programmers, but not enough to describe the inner workings.

I guess this won't convince you, but nonetheless, I'm serious about my $20k bid, and serious about, if nothing else, bringing back old-era Hawken.

[ArchMech]

I would get a lawyer to help me.

been tellin you lot this whole time they WONT talk without one lmao, you'd have to sue you're way past the NDA's first, then and only then can you negotiate or even come to understand the needs of their end of the negotiations.

[ArchMech]

If you can describe how the front end interacts with the multiple backends, I will multiply that matching by 5.

with extensive amounts of custom code, custom api's, and custom data layers, talking to a (likely) broken client build

Edited by ArchMech, 28 October 2017 - 11:51 AM.

[Amidatelion]

https://www.forbes.c...d-acquisitions/

I would get a lawyer to help me. I've got the money, is all. Not the experience with IPs, nor do I know company history. I would hope that you're interested for the sake of keeping this game from disappearing from history. It's been years since I've played, to be honest, but Hawken has enough of a place in my heart to at least make this thread.

As for the front-end and back-end, I've got experience in software development, but not game development. So I've got only enough knowledge to be able to hire competent programmers, but not enough to describe the inner workings.

I guess this won't convince you, but nonetheless, I'm serious about my $20k bid, and serious about, if nothing else, bringing back old-era Hawken.

 

So, that's a no then. Reloaded acquired Hawken in a bankruptcy purchase, which means that while it was discounted, it's initial investors were looking to recoup at least some of their twelve million dollars. Given what we know about Reloaded, it is unlikely that they would have sold the IP to 505 for a loss, so I don't think you're looking at a sum under a few million. Which is before assuming 505 even wants to sell. Now, the only person I know of in this community to be able to pony up for so much as a fraction of that is Lunatic and he's got 2 kids to put through college at the moment.

 

The backend is so convoluted that it took Reloaded, with a team of developers and what Josh called "really quite good" documentation left behind by ADH, six months to get started working on the game. That is 6 months of 0 output, and given that you think a $20k bid on the IP is even in the ballpark, I question how you're going to pay those developers. Who, upon doing their research, will find threads like these and walk on the job offer. 

 

Insert my usual declamation that it takes multiple backend servers to stand up even one map server here.

 

For the love of god people, can we please just stop assuming that "the community" is the answer to Hawken's problems? Because if we are, we're about 2 years too late to do anything.

[ArchMech]

 

"the community" is the answer to Hawken's problems

you heard it here first ladies and gentlemen 

break out yer wallets

Edited by ArchMech, 28 October 2017 - 02:27 PM.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

Now, the only person I know of in this community to be able to pony up for so much as a fraction of that is Lunatic and he's got 2 kids to put through college at the moment.

IRR: 0.2%

Sounds legit.

[Broham78]

I'll put in 5k if you manage to pull this off.

[angryhampster]

I'll put in 5k if you manage to pull this off.

 <3

[Mackindale]

If it's sunset and $0 versus sunrise and $20k+, I'm sure there's something to be looked at regarding my offer.

For example, here are the facts: To any investor, owner, or publisher, Hawken is a trash game that failed to make money.

It's not worth anything, except to this community. To us gamers, it's worth quite a lot. But to anyone who might want to try to make money off this game: Hah.

No one is going to trust the "next developer" unless it's a small fry like me who actually cares about the game itself. Big company business types will easily see that if this game is no longer marketable. The core community has already left, and the people still here are angry with what's happened regarding all previous owners.

Hawken is a failure as far as IPs go, and 505 is lucky they're even getting this bid. Hawken has a stained history at this point, and denying this is ludicrous.

$20k is my offer, with the hope other people will help me out.

Don't pretend like Hawken is still worth twelve million. That point has come and gone. Hawken is old technology now. Unreal Engine 3 era content that failed to make money, and ended up sunsetting, is not worth 12 million dollars.

Hawken is obsolete software on its deathbed, and no serious publisher or development company is going to purchase it.

My plan is to low-ball it with what I personally have to spend, and try to recoup the costs with in-game purchases. Don't think I plan to develop it. I'll get servers set up so that people can play classic-era Hawken at the height of its glory, and maybe release it into FOSS after my initial investment, plus a small profit-percentage, has been returned.

A game with Hawken's history just doesn't have what it takes to be worth much more than my offer.

[Amidatelion]

A game with Hawken's history just doesn't have what it takes to be worth much more than my offer.

That's not how this works.

505 pulled 6 million last year.

Your offer is not even pennies on the dollar to them. It would cost them more money to pay their lawyers to write up the articles of transference or whatever its called in the US than you are offering.

I'm sorry, but you are deluded, financially & operationally incapable, have no idea how to manage this IP and are simply passionate - literally no different than the two sets of devs previous to you.

I'm sure we could do worse than you, but I'd rather just put this thing in the ground and be done with it.

[Morquedeas]

Yeah C05 confirmed that Hawken has never yielded a profit for them, which isn't really surprising.  Considering that the console numbers aren't really much higher than the PC numbers were, I don't think it will be too long before the game is shut down completely.  To console players, the end of the PC support should be interpreted as the death's knell.

 

I can't imagine they are making enough money to even pay for servers at this point.  At some point, they will be glad to get whatever they can for the game.  Might be easier to wait till it gets shut down completely though.

[U235]

I have $1K on it. Let me know... Mackindale, I am not good for much but I have time and I am down. If we can keep gameplay up I'm committed.

Edited by U235, 29 October 2017 - 11:41 AM.

[SparkyJJC]

hawken, no matter who it is owned by, will:

• haemorrhage money so long as it is kept active
• cost more money to maintain than it would make
• be built on shitty code arising from technical debt
• cost a fuzzy bunny ton of money to revitalise the abhorrent mess that it is

you're better off making a new IP in its entirety as a form of spiritual successor rather than waste your money on this because the chances are that in its current state, it will chew through the money you shove into it before you can get your feet on the ground.

[Morquedeas]

hawken, no matter who it is owned by, will:

• haemorrhage money so long as it is kept active
• cost more money to maintain than it would make
• be built on shitty code arising from technical debt
• cost a fuzzy bunny ton of money to revitalise the abhorrent mess that it is

you're better off making a new IP in its entirety as a form of spiritual successor rather than waste your money on this because the chances are that in its current state, it will chew through the money you shove into it before you can get your feet on the ground.

 

I pretty much agree with all of this.  You could wait for the consoles to die, then buy just the IP and make Hawken 2, but considering the stigma of failure it would be associated with, it would probably fail too.  A spiritual successor is probably the best bet, but $20k isn't going to make a game worth much these days.

[Silverfire]

hawken isn't profitable now

hawken wasn't profitable before

 

how do you plan on making hawken profitable and sustainable that 3 different companies and millions of dollars could not do in 5 years

Edited by Silverfire, 29 October 2017 - 08:52 PM.

[Mackindale]

I don't want it profitable. Just sustainable.

If Hawken was mine, I would restore it to the "last-known-liked-configuration," which is probably a build from 2013 or so, back before the health was cut so low.

That was a change that I felt made players very unhappy, so I would simply back up to that point or a similar point, finish up whatever maps I can with community help, and then keep some servers online, and hope that in-game purchases allow me to sustain the servers.

I'm not a publisher or developer. I just happen to have a bit of money lying around, and if the game is going into a coffin otherwise, surely the current owner would rather see an instant $20k, rather than death.

Edited by Mackindale, 29 October 2017 - 10:08 PM.

[Amidatelion]

If Hawken was mine, I would restore it to the "last-known-liked-configuration," which is probably a build from 2013 or so, back before the health was cut so low.

 

Annnnnnd drink.  

 

We're done here.

[Silverfire]

I don't want it profitable. Just sustainable.

If Hawken was mine, I would restore it to the "last-known-liked-configuration," which is probably a build from 2013 or so, back before the health was cut so low.

That was a change that I felt made players very unhappy, so I would simply back up to that point or a similar point, finish up whatever maps I can with community help, and then keep some servers online, and hope that in-game purchases allow me to sustain the servers.

I'm not a publisher or developer. I just happen to have a bit of money lying around, and if the game is going into a coffin otherwise, surely the current owner would rather see an instant $20k, rather than death.

 

Yeah no.  Game was hella clunky back then, when A classes reigned supreme, C classes were useless, dodge consumed fuel (making duels far more clunky and limited to one engagement only), the game UI was cluttered beyond belief, and Technician was legitimately broken.  Sure, there were things that happened that people didn't like, but there were a lot of good things about that update.  Ascension made people unhappy, but it also made people happy.  Customization meant something; it wasn't a pointless exercise in randomly assigning points to the old tech tree that made less than a 2% impact on the game.  If we're talking about the Steam update, at least ADH tried to undo some of the damage that MTR had done before they went under.  But are we really talking about this again? Because this is a dead horse beaten so much that you'd be arrested for vandalizing a museum fossil.

 

I highly doubt that much, if any of code that old remains.  Ascension was a total revamp, and the codebase has also been more or less revamped again with RLD and 505.  Hawken has operated at a loss for years, even dating back to "when Hawken was great."  There is no "revert back to 2013" button. You can't just "simply back up" because you'd likely be rewriting a majority of Hawken's backend code, as well as revamping the entirety of the frontend as well.  Basically rewriting the whole game. 

 

So, instead of wasting $20k on buying this game, go find some fresh college grads who'll develop for you for pennies to pay off their student loans and start from there if you want your own version of Hawken.  It's probably far more efficient than working with the convoluted labyrinth that is and was Hawken's code.

[angryhampster]

how much does it cost to maintain a lobby of players?

 

how much do servers cost?  where are all these costs from

 

how much does it cost a to put a game on steam?

 

let's assume the hawken PC is sold off to a private buyer:  how much will it cost the buyer to maintain the game as it is each month?

 

how could the monthly costs be reduced?

[Luaq]

With "that much" money with so many people willing to do something I think the anser is not about buying hawken but making a game of it's own with our passion for mechs and gritty atmosphere. Would save you a lot of time and thus money. You pitch in 20k, some other 5k one other 1k and silverfire wants to put in 100k. That makes a pretty good amount to start something, get somewhere close to an alpha, create nice concept art, 3d models and maybe a teaser so you can also gain more view and backers via kickstarters.

Side note:
I know who created this game personally:

Spoiler

http://store.steampo...id_And_Meddler/

It's art and it was a lot of work. Now I only mention this to say that projects starts with people. And other people know other great people and it's by talking about it and meeting up and start doing it together. These guys did this game with almost no money. Weren't the original "devs" here people just having fun creating a huge project together?

Work your contacts, create a group under a working name and start something.
 

Edited by Luaq, 30 October 2017 - 11:01 AM.

[Gueber]

So you have investors but who is going to make the game?

[angryhampster]

So you have investors but who is going to make the game?

 

 

who else but me?  lol jp. but seriously.  i'll volunteer be the puppet king.  the silent hamster.  the one we don't deserve and the one we don't need; but he'll be out there, watching, ignoring, and protecting everyone to an extent.

[Luaq]

We should talk about this on the discord channel in a specific room for that subject only. "Pheonix down" hawken in some way. Taking it back or creating our own mech game.

[Amidatelion]

We should talk about this on the discord channel in a specific room for that subject only. "Pheonix down" hawken in some way. Taking it back or creating our own mech game.

Request denied.

[Raimana]

 

I am willing to put up $20,000 to buy the entire IP, all code, all assets, and all other licenses involved with the entire Hawken project. This purchase must include 2011-2014 era code as well as all modern versions.

 

Has Anyone Really Been Far Even as Decided to Use Even Go Want to do Look More Like?

[6ixxer]

Has Anyone Really Been Far Even as Decided to Use Even Go Want to do Look More Like?

...It's code....
It's some sort of covert communication from the Devs about how to save Hawken for PC.

...either that or someone just barfed on their keyboard...
1st post = Cool Story Bro.

[Pumapaw]

Crowd source?

[-Tj-]

I had toyed with the idea of a buyout of Hawken as well. I really hope this goes somewhere, Mackindale. I wish I had a significant amount of money to spend freely, but my funds are quite tight at the moment.

 

When I did entertain the idea of a community purchase of the game, I also thought about how one would maintain the game. Unless you have the ability to pay some kind of team, maintaining it via paid employees or contractors is likely out. However, no one should ever underestimate what anyone would be willing to do simply for the love of something, in their free time.

 

I would have paid a monthly subscription to play Hawken, had they gone that route, if it was a reasonable monthly amount. For something like a community-maintained thing, I'm sure there's some way of securing funds. Patreon, perhaps? I would also be real careful about the whole co-ownership thing. There are so many people who have so many ideas about which direction Hawken should go, and if someone throwing money in decides they want it to go somewhere other co-owners don't want it to, things can and will get ugly. Contracts would probably need to be written and signed by any party involved.

 

Anyway, I don't get to play as much as I want these days (relationship, work, work.... more work....... *sigh*), but I definitely wouldn't want to see Hawken go away forever. Try what EM10 said. Get in contact with them directly somehow if you're really serious. Doing anything via the forums other than to gauge interest from the community probably won't do much. I wish you the best of luck, and hope something, anything, good comes of this. :)