59 replies to this topic

[KilleR_OrigiNs]

I was a communist for a long time before I abandoned it. Not because the ideals are bad, but because I refuse to be within the same category of Chairman Mao.

Likewise, I refuse to be compared to the people of this forum.

Edited by KilleR_OrigiNs, 30 April 2015 - 10:11 PM.

[Derpy Hooves]

What if those who have such accounts, play in a far more relaxed nature then on their primary accout eh? Or ones who've put some money onto those accounts? Would it still be fair to take something away from someone who paid? Or maybe they've reached a point in the skill ceiling like Dave where they're completely alone at that fridged top? Making a new account lets them still play the game, it's better to keep the players you got then alienate them for trying to find a way to coninue enjoying a game they like.

[Miscellaneous]

You said you think making a smurf is for a "giggle" - I don't believe this is why they're made.

 

I have reason to believe that they're made because the top-tier players have such a high MMR that they can't play any matches - they are one of the best at their favourite game but can't play it. Smurf accounts rose in numbers during the last 9 months because of all the people leaving due to lack of devs. Now that we have devs again, we get more players, which means eventually more high-tier players - which means more high-tier matches - which means less smurfs. People also do it for the free 400/500 MC (It was 400 when I joined - apparently it was increased?) you get from playing after an hour.

 

TL;DR - Smurfs generally are high tier players who can't play bcuz MMR and I think the numbers of smurfs will go down now that we have devs and the game it attracting new players again. 

[CrimsonKaim]

As long as Hawken MM has so many restrictions and a dumb thinking of "balance", smurf accoutns are NEEDED for higher tier players. Too high MMR = no rooms available for higher tier players. 

 

I posted two pics of USE and EU beeing full of servers but NONE of them was available due to "fitness range". So we smurf. (I still don't smurf but I honestly think of starting now if this is not fixed within a week or two)

 

Smurfs are game destroying and I agree on that in every aspect, but what shall we do? Hm?

[Rainbow_Sheep]

It certainly isn't a black and white topic, Smurfing isn't good but it isn't inherently bad either.

[KilleR_OrigiNs]

So what you're saying is that the MMR system doesn't work. Easiest solution - Move away from it. Like instantly.

Smurfs are my main priority, and the MMR system causes it. I understand that not every smurf is vicious, but it is the greatest threat to new player retention. No, I'm not saying alienate the original players, I'm saying make sure they can't destroy new ones from enjoying this game too.

Old players have a much higher chance of staying with this game, especially after it nearly dying out. With no offense, I'm not worried about you all. You're not my issue.

My issue are individuals who will gladly join a low-tier match and play like their fighting 2400 range MMR. MMR has been my enemy from the start, and I'll be sure to really dig into details on that, but please, for the love god, do not allow people you know to do that. It'll hurt the game a whole hell of a lot more than losing even one upper tier player.

[Derpy Hooves]

So what you're saying is that the MMR system doesn't work. Easiest solution - Move away from it. Like instantly.

Smurfs are my main priority, and the MMR system causes it. I understand that not every smurf is vicious, but it is the greatest threat to new player retention. No, I'm not saying alienate the original players, I'm saying make sure they can't destroy new ones from enjoying this game too.

Old players have a much higher chance of staying with this game, especially after it nearly dying out. With no offense, I'm not worried about you all. You're not my issue.

My issue are individuals who will gladly join a low-tier match and play like their fighting 2400 range MMR. MMR has been my enemy from the start, and I'll be sure to really dig into details on that, but please, for the love god, do not allow people you know to do that. It'll hurt the game a whole hell of a lot more than losing even one upper tier player.

Problem is you can shout at them till your blue in the face and it won't change the fact that they can simply opt to mute you. Then continue on pubstomping.

[KilleR_OrigiNs]

Redacted. 

Edited by KilleR_OrigiNs, 30 April 2015 - 10:11 PM.

[Derpy Hooves]

I'm not able to do anything about them. I don't know any of them... Well... I mean other than you in this thread. But if you're going to tell me that some of you don't have them as friends, then I'm afraid I must call that a lie.

I'm sorry, I'm really not meaning to be insulting, but this is not a small issue. This is bigger than mech balance, new player mechs, connectivity issues... This out ranks, in my eyes, every foreseeable issue for a long time.

There are a number of easy fixes, implementation of a voting system to kick players, or temporarily (30 minutes or less) ban. The removal of the MMR system is the easiest. I'll gladly play against all of you, I enjoy challenge far more than I enjoy winning Siege 3000-0. But that has to be something the player decides, not something forced on them by a system that has probably never worked.

I know it's a bigger issue, and I'm also bringing up very valid points. Some smurf just to be intentional asshats, those are usually the ones that mute and ignore any cries for a fair game. Also I'd love to see the MMR system abolished as well but i don't see them doing that honestly.

[KilleR_OrigiNs]

Redacted. 

Edited by KilleR_OrigiNs, 30 April 2015 - 10:11 PM.

[EM1O]

Concur on that "ditch MMR" concept. Even if I know I will get ripped to shreds, it would be nice to have a no-restrictions entry into matches where I could maybe sharpen up a little without having to hunt down someone to pvp in private servers, or wait until War Wednesday. Simply label servers as Noob, Mid, Advanced, or Deity level, and let it go at that. If noob stomping is still a concern, keep the Noob level server restricted, but don't bar me from the higher servers!

edit: and I seriously doubt I'm the only skrub-level player that feels this way, too.

Edited by em1o, 07 April 2015 - 03:07 AM.

[Derpy Hooves]

You're very right, your points are valid and difficult to come up with solutions to. It really involves a changeover of a lot of base systems, and I'm sure Reloaded are working hard on it, but I feel like it has a lot to do with the community itself too.

I mean, I'm 2000 range MMR, I'm not the highest, but I'm not low down either... I still see the wreckage, and the misery for new players. I don't feel like they have a big enough of a voice, mostly because they call out balance issues for mechs that are solid.

I'm just trying to raise awareness for an issue that we as a group need to begin working on, and hopefully, it'll take traction. I'd love for nothing more than the Developers to not have to worry about this as much as they do now.

I know how you feel, I'm in that bracket too, Teedering between 2100 and 2200 and even at this point it's hard to find matches. The greater majority of players are in the 1300~1600 range.

 

A vote to kick button would help with a lot of problems currently plaguing the game when it comes to abrasive smurfs but it wouldn't solve all of them.

 

Usually when MM decides to put me in a low ball match, I often opt for a mech that's not in my starting line up, but would get new players to do a double take as to say "what he heck was that?", thats usually the job for the good ol' battle turkey.

[KilleR_OrigiNs]

Redacted.

Edited by KilleR_OrigiNs, 30 April 2015 - 10:12 PM.

[LaurenEmily]

A simple thing that could help is to simply not display the lowest ranked servers in the server browser. That way players who intentionally try to join them would not succeed.
I don't see any other way of getting rid of smurfs than somehow making the rank system more strict to a point where it can track the users skill level based on very few matches, except that this would present another problem when a honest newbie does very well in their first matches and the game throws them in the higher ranks.
So i guess there is no real solution to this that would 100% eliminate all smurfs.

[Derpy Hooves]

I do that as well, good time for some practice with Sir D'esalote' (Dies a lot.)

Also, I don't know what a battle turkey is, but I assume it must be as epic as it's name entails.

https://community.pl...e-battleturkey/

 

That'll explain what the Battle Turkey is, he doesn't get a whole lot of love. </3

[KilleR_OrigiNs]

Redacted. 

Edited by KilleR_OrigiNs, 30 April 2015 - 10:12 PM.

[Jakyll]

Does the current matchmaking system take a player's accuracy into account?

I think that's one of the better aspects in Hawken to distinguish between veterans/skilled players and beginners pretty quickly.

 

I ground my way up to lvl 30 by now, but according to ScrimBot I'm still around 1600 mmr so I'm afraid that I'm not that skilled as many others in Hawken.

Nevertheless, I feel sorry for every low level player I kill, because I'm afraid he will think things like "those fuzzy bunnying high lvl players can't do anything else but to ruin my games!" since my pilot level and loadout are shown in the "who-killed-me-frame"

Edited by Jakyll, 07 April 2015 - 03:26 AM.

[Derpy Hooves]

I read the first line and was like "I'll never call it anything other than that ever again."

Aye, G2 is love G2 is life. All hail the battle turkey.

 

But on a serious note, MMR system needs to go stat. Got up 2 hours ago wanting to play some Hawken but low and behind, wake up to the new regional thing, and even that didn't change the ever unpolite empty server list. Even after 2 full hours, still very empty.

[Meraple]

So..

 

Spoiler

 

What am I supposed to do without a smurf here?

[KilleR_OrigiNs]

Redacted. 

Edited by KilleR_OrigiNs, 30 April 2015 - 10:12 PM.

[Derpy Hooves]

Another huge issue for players. I don't have that issue oddly, it seems I'm always able to find at least one match of some form, but for most it's a big issue there as well.

The report will be a sweet slice of anger few people will ever see in me.

Right now I have 1 match open that has 1 person in it. Not even enough to get the ball rolling, So bored I'm actually trying to hold a conversation with scrimbot(yes i know it won't get me anywhere).

[KilleR_OrigiNs]

Redacted. 

Edited by KilleR_OrigiNs, 30 April 2015 - 10:12 PM.

[BaronSaturday]

I'm putting this offer out. Any high tier player having trouble finding a match can add me to their fl. Message me in game and I'll join your match/party. I will come up there and get smoked so I can get better.

[Derpy Hooves]

Tell it I'm coming for it. Let him know my name as death incarnate. And I'll be asking him what my MMR score is the second I get in, and if it's not back UP TO 2000 SCRIMBOT I SWEAR TO ALL THAT IS HOLY THAT I WILL ask you to polite DIE IN A FIRE.

Or hi. Either or.

He doen't talk much, but his silence speaks volumes.

[Superkamikazee]

It sucks people chase MMR so hard. The whole smurf issue could simply be solved once the player population increases with the implementation of leader boards and ranked / unranked server options. Let the leaderboard chasers chase in ranked server, and when they want to relax, have a drink, kick back, hit up the unranked servers. Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut, BUT, none of this can really happen until the player pops can sustain splitting the player base with ranked /  unranked servers. Such struggle.

[Amidatelion]

Hey, know what's a much, much more polite way of going about this that doesn't make you look like an ignorant child throwing a temper tantrum?

 

You fuzzing think the majority of smurfs do it for a laugh?

 

Bull.

 

GTFO of here and come back when you're not being massively presumptuous or entitled.

 

 

It sucks people chase MMR so hard. The whole smurf issue could simply be solved once the player population increases with the implementation of leader boards and ranked / unranked server options. Let the leaderboard chasers chase in ranked server, and when they want to relax, have a drink, kick back, hit up the unranked servers. Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut, BUT, none of this can really happen until the player pops can sustain splitting the player base with ranked /  unranked servers. Such struggle.

 

Buddy, that is how I normally play. If I was chasing MMR, I wouldn't have servers. There are people just plain better than me who aren't trying and get no games.

[Superkamikazee]

Chill, buddy. 

[claisolais]

  This linked to the greatest problem this game have ever had, the balance, not just between good players and bad players.

  MMR is doing well but it has one limit, we can't find a game, even we do, sometimes it is hard like hell--I am just here to have some fun.

  I turned to coop, regardless new guys ruining my fun there, the coop just don't have enough changes, after 500 times of playing it, less fun, it will become.

  I must confess. I have smurf accounts, not that because I want to wreck new guys, I will feel bad about it. I just want to have some easy fun that could have more unpredictable than the coop modes we had already. Like passive playing style, support role, etc. (But OCD is pushing me to the end of hell, damn it. I just cant stopping fight with the very good guys I encountered--If I can. .....They are just better than the rest guys in the server, mostly.) 

  Party system, is one system ruin the balance like hell. Imagin this--the opposite may have three good player joined game, and we got some individual joined to balance the number of heads--turns out we got a noob, this case, could happen at ANY level. --They just want to have some teamwork-easy-fun. 

  For those smurfs just enjoy wrecking new guys, we actually can't do anything about it. They will always find a way to have their fun.

  For those who have reason to do so, give them an alternative to serve their desires (Go ask them why they do smurf ! And do something with it, help them not fight them.), so that only the problem with them can be solved.(It will never 100% solved though.)                                   --I hope I am using English right

 

Smurf is all to blame! --Because it stomps.

Stomp or being stomped. Many case of a good game was because of a super guy or two carried a poor team.

Its Just like two sides of the coin, try balance them. 

Edited by claisolais, 17 May 2015 - 02:07 AM.

[HorseHeadProphet]

Kickvote button. If someone is in there ruining the match, stomping everyone, with a score 400 points higher than the next player, give the players in the server the power to oust that person. 

 

and yeah the mmr thing needs some work, being unable to play because you're too good at the game is absurd.

[Derpy Hooves]

Hey, know what's a much, much more polite way of going about this that doesn't make you look like an ignorant child throwing a temper tantrum?

 

You fuzzing think the majority of smurfs do it for a laugh?

 

Bull.

 

GTFO of here and come back when you're not being massively presumptuous or entitled.

 

 

 

Buddy, that is how I normally play. If I was chasing MMR, I wouldn't have servers. There are people just plain better than me who aren't trying and get no games.

Someone clearly woke up on the wrong side of the bed while having a hangover.

[Hyginos]

Smurfing is not the problem. Pub stomping is the problem. If crafty goes into a server on his umpteenth smurf and bottom frags because he's only using EOC repeater I can't really see a problem with that. At the same time lots of these super high level players can dumpster a 2300 lobby just as well as any.

 

It baffles me that so many players complain about not getting into games. Even when I was knocking on 2500 MMR I could still find matches, though sometimes I had to leave my home region.

[claisolais]

Kickvote button. If someone is in there ruining the match, stomping everyone, with a score 400 points higher than the next player, give the players in the server the power to oust that person. 

 

and yeah the mmr thing needs some work, being unable to play because you're too good at the game is absurd.

Vote can be unfair, too.

Kick out the leader of the other team, how Will them react? Okay kick out one from the own team? That's balance and fun? It should only happen on the case of roof shooter. 400 points! If you have a good team, the other team just have retention issue--you got switched by the system for balance issue, and you got kicked.

The real bad guys are still out there, and they might have their own plan to avoid those precautions.

Edited by claisolais, 07 April 2015 - 06:19 AM.

[EM1O]

BZFlag had a good system: player-member server admins (yeah, i remember what happened in the last Forum, but SomeThing needs doing) would be somewhere in the game house, and contactable ingame for ban requests, etc. 51% majority vote/6 or more voters got a kick/ban.

Because: there are toxic bastrids out there that even good gameplaying rules won't affect.

Green-canned highly caffeinated soft drink, for example?

[IareDave]

Ignorance is bliss. 

 

https://community.pl...how-to-improve/

[CraftyDus]

Don't Stop. Believin'

Hold on to that feel-eh-eh-ehn

Spoiler

Strangers waiting

Up and down the boulevard

Their shadows searching

In the night

Streetlight people

Livin' just to find emotion

Hidin' somewhere in the night

Edited by craftydus, 07 April 2015 - 08:19 AM.

[Nept]

Back in my day, we just got good.  UT99 didn't have no handholding.

 

Casuals.

 

Seriously, though: While I understand that matchmaking provides new players a smoother learning curve, I can't help but cringe every time one acts as though playing someone better is an offense against humanity.

[Miscellaneous]

Ignorance is bliss. 

 

https://community.pl...how-to-improve/

 

Liking the new avatar, Dave

[crockrocket]

don't bar me from the higher servers!

edit: and I seriously doubt I'm the only skrub-level player that feels this way, too.

The mmr locking is the only thing that ever made me come close to quitting Hawken. It's better now that I can get into a 2300 lobby, but it's still a huge inconvenience surprisingly frequently.

[RedVan]

"Smurfs must go..."

Cry me a fuzzy bunnyng river.

Posts like this make me want to smurf even more

Edited by RedVan, 07 April 2015 - 08:46 AM.

[KilleR_OrigiNs]

Redacted. 

Edited by KilleR_OrigiNs, 30 April 2015 - 10:13 PM.