177 replies to this topic

[Luminescent]

Quote

Hi guys!

I just read through your descriptions, Luminescent.
That high firerate and heat development... could it point into the direction of a flamethrower_
Just think about it...

If you are referring to having a flamethrower in the future I'm pretty sure the devs have said they don't intend on implementing one anytime soon (or at all). If you mean these weapons being a flamethrower I'd expect the stats to be very different - for starters I'd expect it to have a continuous damage per sec like the helix repair torch and also it wouldn't be hitscan (as you'd want the flames to pour forth) or have such a large fall off range. Additionally, if you look at the pic the primary looks nothing like a flamethrower, rather a large machine gun and given the fact that secondary has a 0.75 sec reload would make it impossible to be some sort of flamethrower.

Edited by Luminescent, February 04 2014 - 10:06 PM.

[nepacaka]

http://imageshack.co...9/4427/upv0.png
I'm happy for the TTК, but some of the changes I'm afraid more than Ascension.
like 114 new flak damage, it is as if he had  ~170 damage in Ascension!
3 shot = scout die
6 shot = brawler die

[Ker4u]

nepacaka, on February 04 2014 - 02:21 AM, said:

http://imageshack.co...9/4427/upv0.png
I'm happy for the TTК, but some of the changes I'm afraid more than Ascension
like 114 new flak damage, it is as if he had  ~140 damage in Ascension!

things now are the same no_ vanguard  even got nerfed from 31 ms, and raider from  35,2.
__
overall everyone got slower

[Rajitha]

Really really appreciate the removal of vertical progression of mechs and the tuning system linked to pilot level. It's going to be a huge boon to newcomers to the game
I like being able to tune mechs, I have unexpected builds which are fun to use albeit possibly not 'optimal', but considering the reasons given, it seems like a necessary evil to remove it. I do hope that infiltrators will retain their air dynamics

The rest of the changes seem (to me) to be the biggest changes to Hawken (gameplay-wise) since I started playing back in May. I can only make (wild) guesses about what they mean. But I am concerned about how ping could affect "Effective Health". Just to see if my guesses and concerns see valid hold I'll record some matches now, prior to the patch, and compare them after I get a feel for the post patch Hawken gameplay.

Hoping for the best

[Rajitha]

nepacaka, on February 04 2014 - 02:21 AM, said:

http://imageshack.co...9/4427/upv0.png
I'm happy for the TTК, but some of the changes I'm afraid more than Ascension.
like 114 new flak damage, it is as if he had  ~170 damage in Ascension!
3 shot = scout die
6 shot = brawler die

Just 3 shots!!! Holy fuzzy bunny I did not notice that I'm afraid as well now :/

[44ug3n]

Ker4u, on February 04 2014 - 02:14 AM, said:

yellowbronco, on , said:


44ug3n, on , said:

damn the berserker is getting weaker and weaker tsk armor 350_ are you kidding me_ multiple hits with the heavy and medium mechs and we're dead in a few seconds geezzI to love the berserker at the moment, but it looks like I will have to go to another mech now.
i thought this is sarcasm at first, u serious_ berz looks like top a class mech now to me,
-  no weapons spread on flying,
-  infinite air dodges
-  sustain buff,
-  most hp from A clases
ownly downside it's a bit slow on ground,  like it is now

considering the Armor of the berserker or the light mechs 300+ to 350 in the upcoming update, and the fire rate power of the medium and the heavy mechs are still in the advantage, and also light mechs are not slow, they are fast and but easy to destroy bec low armor. current armor of light mechs is 500 after the patch it will be 350.. airspeed or airdodging is not really an advantage, ground speed and dodging is the main advantage of berserker it means you have to kill with high precision with speed... the only thing about berserker are just speed and burst fire.. kill or be killed.. after the new updates the berserker will be likely and liable to suffer the most to be killed of first mostly because they are mid range close quarter combat mechs which means you have to get close to the enemy to get an accurate damage... my concern is the armor after the update 350 on berserker, how can you possibly last on the battlefield with that armor_ note the tuning points is no more..

[Ysenberg]

Well, given that c-classes can't inprove their fire rate any more via weapons loader, you have a good chance to run in your tin can, 44ug3n


On top of that, the Grenadier loses the opportunity to cool down faster via tuning heatsinks and that other value.
I'm gonna keep my main though^^

Ysen

Edited by Ysenberg, February 04 2014 - 03:08 AM.

[newkah]

Rajitha, on February 04 2014 - 02:49 AM, said:

nepacaka, on February 04 2014 - 02:21 AM, said:

http://imageshack.co...9/4427/upv0.png
I'm happy for the TTК, but some of the changes I'm afraid more than Ascension.
like 114 new flak damage, it is as if he had  ~170 damage in Ascension!
3 shot = scout die
6 shot = brawler die

Just 3 shots!!! Holy fuzzy bunny I did not notice that I'm afraid as well now :/

Yes, in theory 2 full flak hits and 1 well positioned tow will destroy a scout in no more than 2.5 seconds (just enough time for the scout to perform 2 consecutive dodges).

You won't see me in a flak scout getting near a healthy brawler ever again. Thanks.

Edited by newkah, February 04 2014 - 05:16 AM.

[The_Silencer]

Looking forward to this new gift from the devs which "looks" awesome, indeed. Can't wait to play it!

This somehow reminds me of.. well, not "completely" off-topic but it has a point for me on the subject..

[SS396]

Luminescent, on February 04 2014 - 01:06 AM, said:

From the information they've provided you can actually deduce a huge amount about the nature of the mech

Starting with weapons:
B3-AR M4MA: Diverging from PPA and BBY, M4MA is actually a projectile weapon with a comparatively low splash radius compared to other projectile based primaries. It is difficult to tell its situational usefulness as the stats for projectile speed aren't included and additionally we can't tell if it will arc (like the RE-D0X) or fire straight (like the HEAT). However, for a projectile based weapon it does have the fastest rate of fire beating the the next closest RE-D0X by 0.1 proj/sec. Its overall damage is higher than the BBY but also with a slightly higher heat generation. I'm interested to see if the M4MA or PPA ends up a favourite among high tier players.

I think you are incorrect here, I think that each of these primary weapons are exactly the same mode (all Hitscan, just with different values).  Its just a pun on the goldilocks and the three bears childrens story.  Ones too hot, ones too cold, and the babys just right.  grin.

Luminescent, on February 04 2014 - 01:06 AM, said:

SAARE Launcher: The unique nature of this secondary means depending on which primary you use will dictate the use of the SAARE Launcher. I suspect those with the PPA primary will need to constantly charge the SAARE to get that extra heat removal allowing for a more continuous fire. This is a projectile weapon but again without projectile speed or knowing if it arcs or not makes it difficult to determine its effective range. Guessing from the primary options though it looks like this mech is going for mid range combat. It has a very fast rate of fire that even beats that of the EOC Predator solidifying this mech as the king of sustained weaponry. The SAARE also has the best splash range compared to all other weapons which will help reduce the penalty for missing the enemy mech (which is more likely to happened with more sustained fire)

This weapon model was the MRLS, so I think its safe to assume its a auto targeting missile launcher similar to hellfires, with some sort of multiple lock on system maybe, but thats just a guess on my part  I could be completely wrong.

Luminescent, on February 04 2014 - 01:06 AM, said:

A random stab in the dark would lead me to guess that its special ability will be a turret like all the other C Classes but with a passive coolant stat that drains/lowers heat production when firing allowing a never ending stream of bullets at its foes (which would be extremely powerful combined with PPA)

Its special ability will be like nothing we've ever seen before.  Its for sure not a turret mode.  I think its going to be the "Heat Slam" but how its going to work, I'm not quite sure.

[Luminescent]

SS396 - The dead giveaway for if a weapon is a hitscan or projectile/splash based weapon is by looking at the fall-off ranges - hitscans have high ranges and projectiles/splash have small ranges. See that M4MA has 4m start fall off and 8m end fall off. If it were a hitscan then that means the bullets would lose all strength in less than a mechs width in front of it. I am 100% certain this is a projectile/splash based weapon according to these stats.

I am unfamiliar with the MRLS weapon, but if it was in alpha or early beta then that does not guarantee it will have the functionality it did back then (granted though they haven't provided enough information so there is always the chance it could). However, looking at it from a balance perspective the weapon is already quite powerful and versatile from the stats we are given, if multi-lock was added on top of that, then this would certainly be close to if not an op weapon.

Edited by Luminescent, February 05 2014 - 07:31 PM.

[Orbitald]

Well I gotta ask but does this new mech in the spread sheet have any inspiration to the Incinerator I suggested back in September_

https://community.pl...post__p__336886

[Zanozus]

Berserker has the most strong weapon combination in the game + high armor + ability + air dynamics
Corsair dps (35/40) is too low, refire rate is too long, no hitscan, arcuate trajectory, no self-detonation.
B3-AR:PPA - too high dps (132).
For comparison. Point-D Vulcan - 121 dps.
and again... Why is hitscan Flak has 96 DPS and 118 burst damage _ high DPS and burst simultaneously !
Mini-Flak: too high DPS (125), larger than before !
Why is long-range weapons DPS higher than close-range weapons DPS _
DPS: (Assault Riffle (99), SMC (108), BR3-AR:PPA (132),
HAWKINS-RPR (99), AM-SAR (91)
Burn in hell, HITSCAN !

[Rajitha]

newkah, on February 04 2014 - 03:17 AM, said:

Yes, in theory 2 full flak hits and 1 well positioned tow will destroy a scout in no less than 2.5 seconds (just enough time for the scout to perform 2 consecutive dodges).

You won't see me in a flak scout getting near a healthy brawler ever again. Thanks.

Guess we'll have to wait and see how this turns out. Playing in Asia South tonight_ I probably won't be able to join, gotta do some studies
Have fun

[shosca]

I've added TTK sheet. https://docs.google....Y1E&usp=sharing

With the point-d + gl combo you can gun down a scout in 1.42 seconds.

[Muffintrumpet]

shosca, on February 04 2014 - 05:50 AM, said:

I've added TTK sheet. https://docs.google....Y1E&usp=sharing

With the point-d + gl combo you can gun down a scout in 1.42 seconds.

except no-one lands even remotely 100% of Vulcan DPS on anything that they're not welded to

[dorobo]

Muffintrumpet, on February 04 2014 - 06:29 AM, said:

shosca, on February 04 2014 - 05:50 AM, said:

I've added TTK sheet. https://docs.google....Y1E&usp=sharing

With the point-d + gl combo you can gun down a scout in 1.42 seconds.

except no-one lands even remotely 100% of Vulcan DPS on anything that they're not welded to

Then it will take 1.72 seconds

[Ker4u]

Muffintrumpet, on February 04 2014 - 06:29 AM, said:

shosca, on February 04 2014 - 05:50 AM, said:

I've added TTK sheet. https://docs.google....Y1E&usp=sharing

With the point-d + gl combo you can gun down a scout in 1.42 seconds.

except no-one lands even remotely 100% of Vulcan DPS on anything that they're not welded to

if he stands still or is  stuck in some wall you can. And berserker with his ability can do it even faster, and then you add detonator to this

Edited by Ker4u, February 04 2014 - 06:46 AM.

[SuicideNeil]

Oh man....

It's been what, nearly 2 years in development and all the Devs have managed to do is repeatedly twiddle with the 'balance'- polish and nerf movement speed, polish and nerf weapon damage, and polish & nerf health levels. Seriously, just leave that stuff alone and get on with bringing in the core functionality this game so desperately needs:

Map screen
Ability to skip maps ( by vote )
Item drops in-game ( mini-nuke airstrike anyone_ useful for siege & TDM )
Ability to kick players who are AFK or base-camping the whole game ( team vote )
Hardcore-mode
More game modes ( king of the castle, last man/team standing, deliver/destroy the package etc etc )
More maps ( night time versions also )
New items ( deployable airborne drones anyone )
Total overhaul of siege ( it's worse now than it was before- just quicker to lose essentially )- 2 AAs, one Eu station- woohoo tactics and such.

So much missing but all that ever gets attention is balance, over & over again. Most people were complaining about the game feeling slow as the mechs were not very speedy in general, so the devs, in all their wisdom, decide to make everything slower and weaker_ Well, this should be great fun... :-/

Side note: I'm only seeing single versions of the internal items and deployables, no more MK1, MK2 & MK3_...

[fingerknitter]

Ker4u, on February 04 2014 - 06:45 AM, said:

Muffintrumpet, on February 04 2014 - 06:29 AM, said:

shosca, on February 04 2014 - 05:50 AM, said:

I've added TTK sheet. https://docs.google....Y1E&usp=sharing

With the point-d + gl combo you can gun down a scout in 1.42 seconds.

except no-one lands even remotely 100% of Vulcan DPS on anything that they're not welded to

if he stands still or is  stuck in some wall you can. And berserker with his ability can do it even faster, and then you add detonator to this

Well IMO you deserve to die then, and you would have died before this patch too. That's if you are in high-five distance, as the Vulcan spread is atrocious lol.

The idiocy of adding supplementary dps through items like the detonator is dually noted however...

Edited by fingerknitter, February 04 2014 - 06:53 AM.