201 replies to this topic

[h0B0]

I can math too.

If 1000 hours of playtime are required to unlock all and we have an average of 2 minute wait between 15 minute matches matches we're forced to wait over 266 hours.

Thats over 6 weeks of full time work (40h weeks) of forced waiting to unlock all mechs.

[Exeon]

Those numbers are much higher than I expected, ascension made gearing out mechs quite easy and the grind was kind of short. If they plan to keep adding mechs they really need to tone down the grind.

[Hijinks_The_Turtle]

I wish they gave us Service awards back, but different.  How about there will be a limited amount of times you can earn the same reward each day_  This could at least make the grind a little more bearable with the daily win for each mode.

Edited by Hijinks_The_Turtle, March 02 2014 - 03:17 PM.

[AsianJoyKiller]

Exeon, on March 02 2014 - 03:13 PM, said:

Those numbers are much higher than I expected, ascension made gearing out mechs quite easy and the grind was kind of short. If they plan to keep adding mechs they really need to tone down the grind.

That's one of my major concerns about the current grind.

As far as we known, they at least plan on adding several more G2 mechs, and I doubt they're done with brand new versions, and with each new mech, you add upwards of 50 hours for full outfitting and grinding to purchase the new mechs.

[Mobstarr]

League of Legends (without purchasing runes):

• 118 champions
  
• average. 5000 points/champion
  
• 590.000 points total
  
• around 300 points/game
  
• 1966,66 games total
  
• 30 min/game
  
• 59.000 minutes total
  
• 983,33 hours total
  
• 40,97 days total

So I would say the Hawken grind is just a little bit too hard for the content available atm. Would be great to see an small increasement of HC gain, even though i don't need it personally.
But, the grind could be much worse imo so it isn't THAT bad.

And pls stop comparing TF2 or Dota2 pay models with Hawken. These two games are big beasts with a big history, so they have the player numbers to get enough money out of their chest/key/skin system.

[CookieTheory]

AsianJoyKiller, on March 02 2014 - 03:32 PM, said:

Exeon, on March 02 2014 - 03:13 PM, said:

Those numbers are much higher than I expected, ascension made gearing out mechs quite easy and the grind was kind of short. If they plan to keep adding mechs they really need to tone down the grind.

That's one of my major concerns about the current grind.

As far as we known, they at least plan on adding several more G2 mechs, and I doubt they're done with brand new versions, and with each new mech, you add upwards of 50 hours for full outfitting and grinding to purchase the new mechs.

They could do more events. That would help keep the game fresh while rewarding us for playing and having fun. We had the promo codes then the HC offered with the service awards before. That might be why some of us don't really get how bad the new economy is.
Also I'm pretty sure the Yeti event could be considered successful so Night of the living Freds or something would be welcome.

[AsianJoyKiller]

CookieTheory, on March 02 2014 - 03:42 PM, said:

AsianJoyKiller, on March 02 2014 - 03:32 PM, said:

Exeon, on March 02 2014 - 03:13 PM, said:

Those numbers are much higher than I expected, ascension made gearing out mechs quite easy and the grind was kind of short. If they plan to keep adding mechs they really need to tone down the grind.

That's one of my major concerns about the current grind.

As far as we known, they at least plan on adding several more G2 mechs, and I doubt they're done with brand new versions, and with each new mech, you add upwards of 50 hours for full outfitting and grinding to purchase the new mechs.

They could do more events. That would help keep the game fresh while rewarding us for playing and having fun. We had the promo codes then the HC offered with the service awards before. That might be why some of us don't really get how bad the new economy is.
Also I'm pretty sure the Yeti event could be considered successful so Night of the living Freds or something would be welcome.

The problem with events is they only help if you happen to be around for them, or for significant amounts of them.

[h0B0]

Mobstarr, on March 02 2014 - 03:38 PM, said:

League of Legends (without purchasing runes):

• 118 champions
  
• average. 5000 points/champion
  
• 590.000 points total
  
• around 300 points/game
  
• 1966,66 games total
  
• 30 min/game
  
• 59.000 minutes total
  
• 983,33 hours total
  
• 40,97 days total

So I would say the Hawken grind is just a little bit too hard for the content available atm. Would be great to see an small increasement of HC gain, even though i don't need it personally.
But, the grind could be much worse imo so it isn't THAT bad.

And pls stop comparing TF2 or Dota2 pay models with Hawken. These two games are big beasts with a big history, so they have the player numbers to get enough money out of their chest/key/skin system.

That game however has been around for over 3 years.

At this pace hawken is going down the same path LoL is. However it has a significantly smaller player base.

[nepacaka]

since 2012 i play about 200hrs or less, but some new grind moment, early i played 3-4 day for buing g2. if i play 4-5 matches in day, earning = hell.
most of problems, high price on items and internals. people need experiment with this items. and combine different internal on mech. but when each item/internal cost about 5000HC... it's not good

Edited by nepacaka, March 02 2014 - 04:36 PM.

[Beemann]

mrvile, on March 02 2014 - 02:25 PM, said:

Well I've only played post-Steam so I only know the current iteration of the game, and I like it. I am aware that Hawken has gone through a lot of changes, for better or for worse. That's more a problem with the beta/early access binge every developer seems to be going on right now. If you open a game up too early in development, you will alienate players as you make changes to the game, period. Of course, that's a discussion for an entirely new thread.

You actually don't need to, at all.
What Hawken has always needed is a consistent direction to go in, but it still doesn't have that. It's not really that well designed for casual play, and it's nowhere near where it needs to be

mrvile, on March 02 2014 - 02:25 PM, said:

I don't really feel that Hawken is P2W. Maybe it's because I unlocked so much content with my initial purchase (I paid, so I should be winning right_). Maybe it's because I can only play up to 1800mmr servers and haven't witnessed the top tier because I'm not good enough. I don't know.

1. This is shortly after a patch, so most of the playerbase hasn't figured out the new meta
2. You got a starter pack, yours is not the *true* new user experience

mrvile, on March 02 2014 - 02:25 PM, said:

When I die, I usually feel that it's because the player who killed me is a better player, or because I made some dumb call and got myself into a bad situation. It never feels like someone has a mech that is stronger than mine. I mean, as someone with almost all the content unlocked, I can still only play to a certain skill level with any of these mechs and any combination of internals or items. That feels fair.

Maybe I am just ignorant. Maybe you just feel differently.

Your subjective experience of the game, and another user's subjective experience of the game are two wholly different things. The actual fact of the matter is that it's not an even playing field, and people were worried that this was the case even when the CR-T was one of the better mechs in the game. Hawken does not get the most positive reviews, and has lost a substantial amount of dedicated players, and those are going to further push new players away from the game. ADH may need to make some fairly drastic changes, and I don't mean cater to casual players harder

[Superkamikazee]

I don't think the grind's going to change guys. It is pretty rough, but that's what happens in F2P games if revenue is heavily based around not having to grind lol. God I hate the F2P business model, Hawken is the only F2P game I've ever been into, because Hawkens the only decent show in town, mech show that is. Everything else is absolute trash, so yeah.

Edited by Superkamikazee, March 02 2014 - 05:33 PM.

[fez]

I reckon they should change the mech prices to sweet bugger all, and leave all the weapon/cosmetic/item prices as is or increased.

I've got all the mechs bar the G2, so I can't comment on the new player feel, but just HAVING all the mechs to choose from in a losing battle where I find my initial mech choice not suited for the match at hand is really helpful.  I'd probably be really pissed if the only mech/mechs I start off with either don't gel with my playstyle or are unsuited for the map at the time, and I'm staring down the barrel of 1 month of playtime to get another one.

Give new people the CHOICE to find the playstyle that makes them happy really early on.

[Beemann]

Superkamikazee, on March 02 2014 - 05:32 PM, said:

I don't think the grind's going to change guys. It is pretty rough, but that's what happens in F2P games if revenue is heavily based around not having to grind lol. God I hate the F2P business model, Hawken is the only F2P game I've ever been into, because Hawkens the only decent show in town, mech show that is. Everything else is absolute trash, so yeah.

Hawken is noticeably worse than several other "grindy" F2P titles.
It's also not a particularly good mech game (it's basically a shooter where you play as clunky mechs, rather than a mech game with understandably clunky shooting), especially when you can grab Mechwarrior for free and get a full retail game out of it. It's also probably not going to look very appealing when Heavy Gear comes out, though that also depends on the quality of the latter title.

[Nept]

Beemann, on March 02 2014 - 07:45 PM, said:

Superkamikazee, on March 02 2014 - 05:32 PM, said:

I don't think the grind's going to change guys. It is pretty rough, but that's what happens in F2P games if revenue is heavily based around not having to grind lol. God I hate the F2P business model, Hawken is the only F2P game I've ever been into, because Hawkens the only decent show in town, mech show that is. Everything else is absolute trash, so yeah.

Hawken is noticeably worse than several other "grindy" F2P titles.
It's also not a particularly good mech game (it's basically a shooter where you play as clunky mechs, rather than a mech game with understandably clunky shooting), especially when you can grab Mechwarrior for free and get a full retail game out of it. It's also probably not going to look very appealing when Heavy Gear comes out, though that also depends on the quality of the latter title.

Personally, I enjoy Hawken's treatment of mech combat.  It maintains speed and emphasizes quick reaction times while necessitating spatial awareness.  And before you disagree with that one, I invite you to participate in some high level gameplay.  Mechwarrior is a vastly different mech experience, one I can't abide most of the time (MW:LL was decent).

As an old Heavy Gear/Heavy Gear 2 player, I would like nothing more than for Heavy Gear Assault to succeed.  However, your statement that "It's also probably not going to look very appealing when Heavy Gear comes out" is downright disingenuous.  We're both well aware that HG:A's in developmental limbo with their failure to procure funding, and we're both well aware that they've shown almost nothing re: gameplay.  "When" should be replaced with "If ever" and "hopefully".

*Edit* Considering you're always spouting the "esports" line, I think it's worth mentioning that a frequently-cited reason for HG:A's funding failure was its emphasis on "esports" rather than on traditional (PC game) Heavy Gear scenarios.

Edited by Nept, March 03 2014 - 02:05 AM.

[Muffintrumpet]

Nept, on March 03 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

Beemann, on March 02 2014 - 07:45 PM, said:

Superkamikazee, on March 02 2014 - 05:32 PM, said:

I don't think the grind's going to change guys. It is pretty rough, but that's what happens in F2P games if revenue is heavily based around not having to grind lol. God I hate the F2P business model, Hawken is the only F2P game I've ever been into, because Hawkens the only decent show in town, mech show that is. Everything else is absolute trash, so yeah.

Hawken is noticeably worse than several other "grindy" F2P titles.
It's also not a particularly good mech game (it's basically a shooter where you play as clunky mechs, rather than a mech game with understandably clunky shooting), especially when you can grab Mechwarrior for free and get a full retail game out of it. It's also probably not going to look very appealing when Heavy Gear comes out, though that also depends on the quality of the latter title.

Personally, I enjoy Hawken's treatment of mech combat.  It maintains speed and emphasizes quick reaction times while necessitating spatial awareness.  And before you disagree with that one, I invite you to participate in some high level gameplay.

I see this argument being made here and there on this forum and whilst what you say might be true, and if that was the design intent behind Hawken, then it's a damned flawed approach for a F2P game because if the true game only reveals itself upon reaching this utopian 'high level' threshold the game will continue to shed sub-'high level' players at a prodigious rate and your 'high level' ranks are going to remain severely under-populated

[mrvile]

Muffintrumpet, on March 03 2014 - 03:25 AM, said:

Nept, on March 03 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

Beemann, on March 02 2014 - 07:45 PM, said:

Superkamikazee, on March 02 2014 - 05:32 PM, said:

I don't think the grind's going to change guys. It is pretty rough, but that's what happens in F2P games if revenue is heavily based around not having to grind lol. God I hate the F2P business model, Hawken is the only F2P game I've ever been into, because Hawkens the only decent show in town, mech show that is. Everything else is absolute trash, so yeah.

Hawken is noticeably worse than several other "grindy" F2P titles.
It's also not a particularly good mech game (it's basically a shooter where you play as clunky mechs, rather than a mech game with understandably clunky shooting), especially when you can grab Mechwarrior for free and get a full retail game out of it. It's also probably not going to look very appealing when Heavy Gear comes out, though that also depends on the quality of the latter title.

Personally, I enjoy Hawken's treatment of mech combat.  It maintains speed and emphasizes quick reaction times while necessitating spatial awareness.  And before you disagree with that one, I invite you to participate in some high level gameplay.

I see this argument being made here and there on this forum and whilst what you say might be true, and if that was the design intent behind Hawken, then it's a damned flawed approach for a F2P game because if the true game only reveals itself upon reaching this utopian 'high level' threshold the game will continue to shed sub-'high level' players at a prodigious rate and your 'high level' ranks are going to remain severely under-populated

Ehh, I'm a new, low-level player and even I enjoy the pacing of the combat in Hawken. Maybe I'm broken.

[AsianJoyKiller]

mrvile, on March 03 2014 - 04:38 AM, said:

Ehh, I'm a new, low-level player and even I enjoy the pacing of the combat in Hawken. Maybe I'm broken.

Given that the mechanics favor casual play, that's actually expected.

[Superkamikazee]

This doesn't help the grind either

[Nept]

Muffintrumpet, on March 03 2014 - 03:25 AM, said:

Nept, on March 03 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

Beemann, on March 02 2014 - 07:45 PM, said:

Superkamikazee, on March 02 2014 - 05:32 PM, said:

I don't think the grind's going to change guys. It is pretty rough, but that's what happens in F2P games if revenue is heavily based around not having to grind lol. God I hate the F2P business model, Hawken is the only F2P game I've ever been into, because Hawkens the only decent show in town, mech show that is. Everything else is absolute trash, so yeah.

Hawken is noticeably worse than several other "grindy" F2P titles.
It's also not a particularly good mech game (it's basically a shooter where you play as clunky mechs, rather than a mech game with understandably clunky shooting), especially when you can grab Mechwarrior for free and get a full retail game out of it. It's also probably not going to look very appealing when Heavy Gear comes out, though that also depends on the quality of the latter title.

Personally, I enjoy Hawken's treatment of mech combat.  It maintains speed and emphasizes quick reaction times while necessitating spatial awareness.  And before you disagree with that one, I invite you to participate in some high level gameplay.

I see this argument being made here and there on this forum and whilst what you say might be true, and if that was the design intent behind Hawken, then it's a damned flawed approach for a F2P game because if the true game only reveals itself upon reaching this utopian 'high level' threshold the game will continue to shed sub-'high level' players at a prodigious rate and your 'high level' ranks are going to remain severely under-populated

It's essentially the same for every shooter ever.  Lower-end gameplay never properly represents a game's depth.  In Unreal Tournament (and its sequels), most players didn't even know they could dodge.  Most Quake players can't strafe jump. Most Tribes players can't ski (properly).  In Counterstrike, the movement system's simplistic enough that there's not really much to understand - but even then, high-level play reveals significantly more depth than what you'd see from its pub counterpart.

[mrvile]

AsianJoyKiller, on March 03 2014 - 04:42 AM, said:

mrvile, on March 03 2014 - 04:38 AM, said:

Ehh, I'm a new, low-level player and even I enjoy the pacing of the combat in Hawken. Maybe I'm broken.

Given that the mechanics favor casual play, that's actually expected.

Just out of curiosity, for those of you who've been playing for a long time and have established high-level team play, what are your games like_ It almost seems like you guys just don't have fun because the game doesn't offer mechanics geared for top-tier play_