311 replies to this topic

[CraftyDus]

Your entire narrative here is delusional SS.

You keep saying 60 people out of 200-ish, despite the number of 81 people listed and the 114 playing while I post this...and because TPG is between seasons, right this very second there are 4 servers with people in them in NA, only  2 of which are full. That number is in the 30's.

What ails you?

Either you can't count or you are desperate to accept that organized Hawken is majority of active Hawken in NA, and has been from the summer of '14 on.

 

I scrimmed a completely new team last night  for over an hour full of new players who were preparing for tpg s4.

When's the last time you and some friends played hawken with another team of completely new people?

Oh that's never happened and likely never will.

Doesn't mean that it's not what we are busy having fun doing.

There's not a single player who helped the original devs that will have anything to do with you.

I'm sorry you are hurt that most hawken NA players have been busy in organized play while you continue to refuse to participate in this game and its community.

But you have nobody to blame but yourself.

 

And whittling your nonsense down by all time viewcount is also ignorant of the premise that those videos are ancient, rarely watched and that the new content and the current live streams and their channels are what matter to a living scene.

The one you are desperate to ignore and misrepresent.

How many viewers and followers are there on your stream? Who do you party up with in Hawken?

You  continue to haunt it for reasons noone can understand.

Stating the actual positive effect organized play does in the way of helping this game is hard for you to understand because you refuse to be relevant to the playing of this game.

You are not relevant to this game, should have been banned from it's forums for threateming to kill it's members long ago, and are railing against the truth.

Edited by CraftyDus, 15 January 2016 - 04:39 AM.

[PoopSlinger]

TL;DR  Crotchety old people are butthurt.  Stay off their lawn.

 

edit:  I am in support of working spectate mode.  Primal Carnage: Extinction the glitchy dinosaur game has it.

Edited by PoopSlinger, 15 January 2016 - 05:19 AM.

[Pleasure_Mortar]

 But on arrival, Reloaded, being at that point Josh and Tiggs, were enthralled with the community. They were struck by how much we cared for the game, and hoped to multiply that affection just a bit.

 

 

They what? 

They made us believe there would be weekly dev updates and made us believe they would stay in touch with the community.

When was the last time Josh engaged with the community here on the forum? What about the laggy nightmare that is the EU servers perfomance right now, that gone uncommented from any officials for more than a month? What about the endless debates about smurfs and cheaters?

Where do you see these enthralled people multiplying affection?

All I see is no communication at all.

If we'd really entralled them, they'd stay in touch with us. 

 

The only enthralling that is going on is between us and Hawken, that's why we play it.

They threw us a bone�barely enough to keep a few people around until the game will be released, thats all.

[Aregon]

They what? 

They made us believe there would be weekly dev updates and made us believe they would stay in touch with the community.

When was the last time Josh engaged with the community here on the forum? What about the laggy nightmare that is the EU servers perfomance right now, that gone uncommented from any officials for more than a month? What about the endless debates about smurfs and cheaters?

Where do you see these enthralled people multiplying affection?

All I see is no communication at all.

If we'd really entralled them, they'd stay in touch with us. 

 

The only enthralling that is going on is between us and Hawken, that's why we play it.

They threw us a bone�barely enough to keep a few people around until the game will be released, thats all.

Most of the weeks have just gone to try and find out what the devs did, and when you don`t even have a full team it isn`t too easy to schedule a weekly update. However I do believe that the hype was wayy too early, because it will take lots of time before something major happens.

[Pleasure_Mortar]

[withdrawn due to new information]

 

IMO there were only two reasonable ways to handle this from the begining.

1. tell people you are resurrecting the game, it will take a lot of time to go through all the data and hire a new team and not to expect any releases for at least half a year, or more. 

2. be passionate about the game, keep in touch with the community, stay the course.

Edited by Pleasure_Mortar, 15 January 2016 - 12:43 PM.

[Superkamikazee]

They what?
They made us believe there would be weekly dev updates and made us believe they would stay in touch with the community.
When was the last time Josh engaged with the community here on the forum? What about the laggy nightmare that is the EU servers perfomance right now, that gone uncommented from any officials for more than a month? What about the endless debates about smurfs and cheaters?
Where do you see these enthralled people multiplying affection?
All I see is no communication at all.
If we'd really entralled them, they'd stay in touch with us.

The only enthralling that is going on is between us and Hawken, that's why we play it.
They threw us a bone�barely enough to keep a few people around until the game will be released, thats all.

Right, but I think you're missing the point, comp scene, saving Hawken, being Hawken, inspiration. Comp scene is the reason Hawken was saved by Reloaded, it has nothing to do with buying Hawken for peanuts (likely scenario) and making a buck.

#BUBBLES

[CraftyDus]

find 5 people with oculus rift kits playing Hawken

[DallasCreeper]

buying Hawken for peanuts (likely scenario) and making a buck.

$30,000; or so my sources say. Compared to the what was it? 30 times that for the development? (About $900,000 for those too lazy to do the math)  

Spoiler

How far off am I for the inferred cost? I have no Idea, just throwing numbers around. But Reloaded did pay the $30,000, I know that one

[Pleasure_Mortar]

Right, but I think you're missing the point, comp scene, saving Hawken, being Hawken, inspiration. Comp scene is the reason Hawken was saved by Reloaded, it has nothing to do with buying Hawken for peanuts (likely scenario) and making a buck.

#BUBBLES

This point about Josh and Tiggs being enthralled just set me off. 

 

As for competitive play keeping the game alive, I agree with you, I don't see it. The majority of players is below 1800 MMR, they play because they like the game. If anything they are pissed of by the high tier players "ruining" their matches either with their mains or smurfs. They have never heard of any kind of competitive scene nor do they care. I've been on the forum since las april and I still don't know what kind of tournaments are going on, because I'm more concerned that the servers are performing badly and how to get my movement right. IMO you can cut off the entire competitive scene including players and it would have zero impact on the majority of players and the perception of a game and therefor no impact on Reloadeds plan for this game. Having people still play this game competitively is the cherry on top not the major part dought.

Edited by Pleasure_Mortar, 15 January 2016 - 12:18 PM.

[Superkamikazee]

find 5 people with oculus rift kits playing Hawken

Something something, dev kits, and Ridt supports been broken for some time in hawken. Hell the game itself has been broken for who knows how long. The consumer product hasn't even been released yet. Pre orders sold out. While selling out is not definitively prove VR will be a huge hit, selling out pre orders does signal that there is strong consumer demand for this product.

Edited by Superkamikazee, 15 January 2016 - 12:28 PM.

[Superkamikazee]

$30,000; or so my sources say. Compared to the what was it? 30 times that for the development? (About $900,000 for those too lazy to do the math)

Spoiler

How far off am I for the inferred cost? I have no Idea, just throwing numbers around. But Reloaded did pay the $30,000, I know that one

Like I said peanuts. The amount spent building the game vs what it cost to pick it up, again, peanuts. Delicious, tasty, peanuts.

[Pleasure_Mortar]

$30,000; or so my sources say. Compared to the what was it? 30 times that for the development? (About $900,000 for those too lazy to do the math)  

Spoiler

How far off am I for the inferred cost? I have no Idea, just throwing numbers around. But Reloaded did pay the $30,000, I know that one

If that's true it would explain A LOT.

2 man crew, horribly slow progress, dwindling interaction with the community, etc.

30k is a risk a company can take just to see if they can get back double what they invested, or even hit it off big time.

[Superkamikazee]

If that's true it would explain A LOT.
2 man crew, horribly slow progress, dwindling interaction with the community, etc.
30k is a risk a company can take just to see if they can get back double what they invested, or even hit it off big time.

It's not about the risk, or the cost, its about the comp scene bro.

[DallasCreeper]

If that's true it would explain A LOT.

2 man crew, horribly slow progress, dwindling interaction with the community, etc.

30k is a risk a company can take just to see if they can get back double what they invested, or even hit it off big time.

My only question is, Where are all the guys that Josh said they hired? Those graphic artists and something. Was that just to throw us another bone to gnaw? Or it the process taking a while?

Edited by DallasCreeper, 15 January 2016 - 12:41 PM.

[Superkamikazee]

My only question is, Where are all the guys that Josh said they hired? Was that just to throw us another bone to gnaw? Or it the process taking a while?

The Great Silence: Redux

[CraftyDus]

How is it possible to be so unaware of what's going on here. Who dresses and feeds you poor helpless creatures.

[SS396]

Your entire narrative here is delusional SS.

Says the guy that makes 3 false statements one after another and gets immediately proven WRONG by me of all people. Hows that feel BTW?
 

You keep saying 60 people out of 200-ish, despite the number of 81 people listed and the 114 playing while I post this...and because TPG is between seasons, right this very second there are 4 servers with people in them in NA, only  2 of which are full. That number is in the 30's.

I'm just using the most recent TPG member season 3 numbers provided to me in recent posts by Hyginos. I feel he has a good understanding of the number of active members in a group he is directly associated with. In reality the numbers don't really matter, why you may ask. Because the number of players right now CURRENTLY playing, would be the relatively the same WITH OR WITHOUT COMP PLAYERS. This is easily shown to you by looking at Ashfires daily graphs. You keep stating that comp players are the only reason Hawken remained alive, so that must mean that they are both funding this game by buying truck loads of MC and playing this game 24 hours a day keeping it alive, keeping servers full of players, so that other players have someone to play against. I've asked you for specific details on how comp players are keeping Hawken alive, and again you (and other comp players) have ignored my question for some odd reason. I wonder why that is, maybe you just don't have an answer for your ridiculous statement?
 

What ails you?
Either you can't count or you are desperate to accept that organized Hawken is majority of active Hawken in NA, and has been from the summer of '14 on.

Irrelevant. It doesn't matter what ails me. You keep grasping at straws trying to twist this into a personal attacks. Maybe you are avoiding something, hrmm. Classic misdirection attempt.

Are you really going to squirm and shift your stance again? We all see whats going on here. Just sack it up, and be humble. Eat some crow and admit you were wrong and I'll drop this. But really I'm having way too much fun watching you squirm.
 

I scrimmed a completely new team last night  for over an hour full of new players who were preparing for tpg s4.
When's the last time you and some friends played hawken with another team of completely new people?
Oh that's never happened and likely never will.
Doesn't mean that it's not what we are busy having fun doing.

Irrelevant, What does that have to do with admitting you were wrong?

I play with a team of new people every match I play in, thats how I play Hawken, thats how the majority of the population (minus the 60 in comp teams ) plays . I'm not sure you understand how silly and off topic your ramblings are right now, might want to ask Nept for some friendly advice on how to proceed.
 

There's not a single player who helped the original devs that will have anything to do with you.

Says you. How do you know who I am friends with? But that is another statement that can easily be proven false again (what are we at 4 or 5 now, sure are racking them up quickly), plenty of people have reached out to me for one reason or another. Some even recently within a day or so, after this spectacle was posted. Just because you think you are in the know with your tight group of people that truly despises me, does not mean that everyone in Hawken does. Some people just don't care about some fuzzy bunny that happened on a forum. I can see you are not one of those people. <grin>
 

I'm sorry you are hurt that most hawken NA players have been busy in organized play while you continue to refuse to participate in this game and its community.
But you have nobody to blame but yourself.

Irrelevant and false again. Geez, this seems to be some kinda theme with you, whats up with that.

Organized play does not interest me in the slightest and NEVER HAS IN ANY GAME I'VE EVER PLAYED. Yes, there are thousands of players that play Hawken that do not give a flying fuzzy bunny about comp play. You do, and so do 60 others, everyone else really doesn't and everyone else is the majority here. There aren't throngs of fanbois watching Hawken comp matches happen. I've asked you for proof of this, and again you've chosen to ignore it AGAIN. Its ok, we all know why you chose to ignore it. Comp bull fuzzy bunny is important to you and your friends, but to the rest of Hawken, it is unimportant and meaningless. Sorry that you have to hear the truth.
 

And whittling your nonsense down by all time viewcount is also ignorant of the premise that those videos are ancient, rarely watched and that the new content and the current live streams and their channels are what matter to a living scene.

You were the one that said "comp play was the MOST VIEWED" remember? I am just simply holding you to your ridiculous statement.

Maybe you should of thought twice about what you said and used "MOST RELEVANT" instead? Am I sensing some regret?

How can streaming to nobody, or streaming to 2 or 3 other Hawken fans benefit Hawken?

Yesterday there were 4 streams that streamed Hawken, those 4 had a total of 8 viewers. Please by all means, explain to me and everyone else here how the fuzzy bunny that benefited Hawken in any way shape or form. Seriously, I think someone is overcompensating for something here.
 

The one you are desperate to ignore and misrepresent.

Oh ok then, so go ahead and answer all of my questions you have IGNORED that I've asked of you please.
 

How many viewers and followers are there on your stream?

What does this have to do with the topic again? Oh yeah, grasping at straws at a character assassination attempt.

To answer your ridiculous question:
155 views, and 18 followers. But I don't stream Hawken and never have. I only recorded one thing that had anything to do with Hawken and that was just to prove someone wrong. In fact I haven't streamed in years, and I did it just for fun, but starting a channel is hard work and honestly its pretty depressing playing a game for hours and nobody shows up to watch.
 

Who do you party up with in Hawken?

I don't because partys ruin balance, its against my Hawken religion.
 

You  continue to haunt it for reasons noone can understand.

Oh they understand alright. Kappa
 

Stating the actual positive effect organized play does in the way of helping this game is hard for you to understand because you refuse to be relevant to the playing of this game.

I've asked you for details on how it does this, please clue us all in on the ins and outs of how this game is kept alive on the backs of comp players.
 

You are not relevant to this game, should have been banned from it's forums for threateming to kill it's members long ago, and are railing against the truth.

I'm just as relevant as you. Its the same with anyone that shares a love for Hawken. Nobody that plays this game is more important than anyone else. We are all equals. Josh doesn't listen to one person over the other because of his reputation on some forum.

So, just sack it up and say it Crafty. Its not that difficult.

[ticklemyiguana]

 

IMO there were only two reasonable ways to handle this from the begining.

1. tell people you are resurrecting the game, it will take a lot of time to go through all the data and hire a new team and not to expect any releases for at least half a year, or more. 

2. be passionate about the game, keep in touch with the community, stay the course.

1. They did.

 

2. We have scarcely a quarter of a community manager who works with other communities far more demanding than the Hawken community, a producer who's still trying to figure out what the hell ADH was doing, and truth is, none of us have any freaking idea, a smattering of moderators bound to silence (and that I'm not thrilled with), and a few brand new developers hired in the last couple months who are statistically unlikely to have even heard of Hawken before, and of course Ashfire, who's plenty accessible.

 

Yeah. It'd be nice. I'm part of another gaming community right now, where the developers actively seek community participation in discussion, debate, and in ongoing projects. I'm enthralled with them. Hell, if I was responsible for this community on Reloaded's side, I'd sure as hell want to encourage some developer presence, but from their perspective, we've gone... well. Count off the amount of time we've gone with absolutely nothing at all before Reloaded. Not scattered updates a month or more apart, not an occasional video interview with the producer of the game - literally nothing.

 

You know what's happened since Reloaded came into the picture? Community activity has swollen to pre-silence levels. Is that even a good thing? How many new players do we want to join and test out a broken game? Do you think if the developers were super engaging and charming and witty, we'd have more? This is a made up statistic, but I'd wager 95% of anyone who's "left" the game won't be coming back if Reloaded ever does a real release. That cuts into the profit margins. Now perhaps if they were all engaging and witty, the rate at which people leave would be lessened. So? Out of these hypothetical people, who's buying into a game that's essentially back in alpha at this point? Does that balance out with server costs? Risk that those players won't come back? That they'll tell their friends that Hawken is poorly optimized, lacking in content, dead?

 

Probably not. Reloaded is a business. They're here to make a few dollars, and they could probably do so without us. They could probably save money by shutting down the servers and not letting us play a game that they know will take a while to get back to profit making capacity. They'd even minimize risk of negative grassroots publicity.

 

 

Right, but I think you're missing the point, comp scene, saving Hawken, being Hawken, inspiration. Comp scene is the reason Hawken was saved by Reloaded, it has nothing to do with buying Hawken for peanuts (likely scenario) and making a buck.

 

He's right ^ but only in his conclusion. I mean, he doesn't seem to be able to put the puzzle pieces together, but this is about the bottom line. As much as I want "engagement", this is about making a buck, and if Reloaded's progress isn't going so hot, then while as a community member I want to know things, want muh engagements, as a... uh. well. capitalist. I have to agree with their minimal contact policy. We cost money. We were "breaking even" when the servers sucked more fuzzy bunny than they do currently. There's no way we're breaking even now, not with improved servers from when they downgraded and broke even, not with additional moderation or with new developers.

 

Yet, the lights are on, fuzzy bunnyer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Am I really going to get sucked into this?

 

Probably.

 

PS

 

 

This point about Josh and Tiggs being enthralled just set me off. 

I can see why you'd say that. But, well, I was "there". They were.

Edited by ticklemyiguana, 15 January 2016 - 01:13 PM.

[Pleasure_Mortar]

1. Yes, but they were also the ones coming up with the weekly dev updates and I remember Josh saying in an Interview that he will engage more with the community. Stuff that only lasted for a few months. IMO they bit off a lot more than they could chew here.

 

2. yes they are a business. but as I have said before there is more than one way to make a buck. One way is to focus on short term gains something big corporations have done for years now to keep their shareholders happy and as it turns out it's not working as planned because they are no longer in touch with their customers and loosing profits in the log run or you can build up a solid reputation and a solid base of loyal customers that will support your product because the are feeling being understood and give you a sunstainable profit margin.

That is how I hoped, based on the initial actions of the devs, Hawken would have turned out.

Edited by Pleasure_Mortar, 15 January 2016 - 02:14 PM.

[ticklemyiguana]

1. Yes, but they were also the ones coming up with the weekly dev updates and I remember Josh saying in an Interview that he will engage more with the community. Stuff that only lasted for a few months. IMO they bit off a lot more than they could chew here.

 

2. yes they are a business. but as I have said before there is more than one way to make a buck. One way is to focus on short term gains something big corporations have done for years now to keep their shareholders happy and as it turns out it's not working as planned because they are no longer in touch with their customers and loosing profits in the log run or you can build up a solid reputation and a solid base of loyal customers that will support your product because the are feeling being understood and give you a sunstainable profit margin.

That is how I hoped, based on the initial actions of the devs, Hawken would have turned out.

Lets talk about 2 here, acknowledging that they may well have bit off more than they could chew. If they were going for short term profit, all they'd really need to do is have some communication and pump out some new skins. That's all. But we're kind of already beyond that level of short term - we're nearing a year after they purchased the game. Sure, they probably did  see an increase in profitability as soon as they signed on, people got hyped, but they could have continued that with relative ease by doing what I listed above.

 

What I listed above would also create a little bit more hype, bring a few more players into the game, and then what? Well christ, now they have to deal with those players, deal with them leaving when they can't satisfy their every cry, deal with them spreading negative publicity about them being, well, Reloaded - a company with a history of milking dying games with minimal effort.

But the thing is, in order for that to happen, they have to make people want to buy into the game. That's done through community engagement. That's how you make money in the short term. Build a loyal customer base? Dude, we're it.

 

Their methodology is either based long term or in some degree of incompetence, perhaps both. But in the meantime, Hawken is up and running when it has no real right to be. Whatever you might say about Josh or Tiggs, they were enthusiastic about this game coming in, they were enthralled to have been given a community that's weathered all the nonsense that we have. Cynical me speaking, that's probably because they figured we could handle them putting minimal resources into the community, but that doesn't change the fact that without said community, and I would emphasize the people surrounding the competitive community who have poured an untold number of thousands of hours into the game, dumped thousands, perhaps tens of thousands of dollars into the game (I've put in around $500, and I'm not the highest bidder by some margin), been involved in bringing new players on and keeping them there (despite what you might think, the comp scene isn't just Nept and Xacius or smurfs who stomp around in low level lobbies, I mean, goodness, the events I've hosted alone have easily seen over a thousand players), that without said community, the game may well have been temporarily shut down while being redeveloped, or simply passed up on as too expensive to maintain the customer base.

 

And finally:

 

would have turned out.

 

When? Now? 10 months after two people were assigned the task of reviving a poorly optimized, overfunded game with stupid, stupid levels of P2W conspiracies around it that also, also LITERALLY WENT BANKRUPT?

 

Come on, man.

Edited by ticklemyiguana, 15 January 2016 - 02:42 PM.

[CraftyDus]

SS the video you continually link is 5 years old, was released 3 years before we established TPG Hawken, and a year before the game was available for most ppl to play.
And I easily exposed you for having nothing to do with the active playing community here.
I listed 81 call signs while you try to explain why your friends are imaginary.
It's pretty clear why you prefer videos by total viewpoint and are averse to searching according to RELEVANCE.
Because that old marketing video of Hawken in its infancy doesn't represent the game we play now accurately, and neither do you.

[ticklemyiguana]

Crafty, to be fair, you should admit that you were wrong in the letter of your argument. You did say comp Hawken was the most viewed.

 

SS, to be fair, you should admit, so long as Crafty can agree to the above, that as the discussion has continued and it became a little more clear what he's been trying to say, that you've misinterpreted the spirit of it.

Edited by ticklemyiguana, 15 January 2016 - 03:10 PM.

[CraftyDus]

coincidence?

 

 

 

I will maintain that Hawken would be better served and most players would prefer a polishing off of the almost working spectator mode over vr support.

The significantly more active part of the playerbase that enjoys a cornacopia of organized play and events would appreciate the quality increase that the created content would served by.

[Sylhiri]

Crafty, to be fair, you should admit that you were wrong in the letter of your argument. You did say comp Hawken was the most viewed.

 

SS, to be fair, you should admit, so long as Crafty can agree to the above, that as the discussion has continued and it became a little more clear what he's been trying to say, that you've misinterpreted the spirit of it.

 

That would mean someone has to admit they are wrong. I just can't see that happening.

[Superkamikazee]

coincidence?




I will maintain that Hawken would be better served and most players would prefer a polishing off of the almost working spectator mode over vr support.
The significantly more active part of the playerbase that enjoys a cornacopia of organized play and events would appreciate the quality increase that the created content would served by.

I'm not even arguing about VR anymore, but do you not understand that the player popluation is almost nonexistent? That means either there's a few new members playing and quitting, but the majority of the remaining playerbase is the hardcore hawken enthusiast, making up that hardcore is the tpg players. Roughly according to numbers thrown around here, 26% of the player population in in league play. Translating that to say cs go would mean roughly 700,000 people play in organized leagues on cs go.

No, that's not happening. That's not the real world. Your perspective is so skewed its hysterically entertaining.

Edited by Superkamikazee, 15 January 2016 - 03:37 PM.

[Nept]

What Crafty wrote: �Most hawken created content that's out there is people involved in organized play.�

 

What SS396 wrote: �Ok, let's google. How do you explain the missing competitive matches holding the top view counts?"

 

 

 

This constitutes either poor reading comprehension from SS396 or an intentional strawman fallacy.  From fallacyfiles.org, "Straw man is one of the best-named fallacies because it is memorable and vividly illustrates the nature of the fallacy.  Imagine a fight in which one of the combatants sets up a man of straw, attacks it, then proclaims victory.  All the while, the real opponent stands by untouched."

 

The "real opponent" in this case if Crafty's original assertion - that most Hawken-related content (i.e., videos) has been created by competitive players.  That assertion doesn't, as SS396 incorrectly assumes, reference viewcount.  Instead, it refers to the number of videos created.  Crafty referenced views (by posting his youtube search) only in response to this red herring.

 

Crafty never argued that community content from competitive players holds the highest viewcount.  Crafty stated that it constitutes the majority of Hawken content - which it probably does (I don't know, I've not bothered counting).

 

SS396, you do this a lot.  Do you remember our earlier discussion, where you misterpreted Devotion's claims re: MMR?  Devo spent 300+ words explaining his position.  You reimagined his statement as one you could easily attack.  I explained your error.  You implied that I was reading Devotion's argument incorrectly.  Devotion agreed with my account.  And then you - rather than admitting your error - blamed Devotion's writing (which was pretty damn clear).

 

Now, I recognize you've created a narrative within which you're boldly opposing the high-tier cabal, but the truth is that your reading comprehension is poor, you frequently employ fallacies (unintentionally or no), and you hate conceding points.  That means that many people are going to disagree with you.

Edited by Nept: Ultra Lord of the God-Kings, 15 January 2016 - 04:18 PM.

[Superkamikazee]

Arguing over semantics, hello internet.

[Xacius]

Arguing over semantics, hello internet.

There are a considerable amount of people on these boards that could learn a thing or two in that department.  

[Onstrava]

What you should be asking yourselves is, what do you think Hawken is about to become!? Remember the new Devs are working on an update after all. Keyword here ->new devs<- meaning they could change everything about the game and hell I would be surprised if they didn't.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yay, 150 post achieved

Edited by Onstrava, 15 January 2016 - 04:28 PM.

[Nept]

As for all the other stuff, here's my opinion.

 

VR Development

I agree with butt's assertion that VR would be both costly and risky.  I think it's important to remember that superkamikaze voiced his thoughts while referencing pacing.  He would like to see the game slowed, and promoting VR development supports that perspective.  Personally, I think the game's slow enough.

 

Spectator Mode

I don't think that finishing spectator mode will automatically increase Hawken's population.  I do think that they should finish spectator mode (and I would certainly prioritize it over VR development and its pitfalls), especially since it's decently far along.  Spectator mode will also help content creators, including (but not limited to) the competitive community.  Ultimately, Reloaded's much better positioned to decide whether they've (currently) enough time and resources to finish Adhesive's work.

 

The Competitive Community

Competition often extends a game's life.  It keeps people - especially veterans - playing the game.  And it's those veterans who frequently serve as teachers and mentors for newer players.  Ladders and leagues also provide players "end-game" goals that wouldn't otherwise be present.  However, competition doesn't (typically) attract new blood.  It's better understood (imo), as a means of keeping people interested in the game.

 

Leagues like TPG and Priority Target; tournaments like TPG's try-weeklies; and events like War Wednesday and Sunday Sunday Sunday Deathmatch have been a boon for this community.  They won't result in thousands of new players, but they will help hold the interest of fresh recruits.

 

re: superkamikazee and "semantics"

I know that you're simply repeating a phrase that's not well understood, but understanding meaning is important during any debate.  Regardless of its forum. 

[SS396]

SS the video you continually link is 5 years old, was released 3 years before we established TPG Hawken, and a year before the game was available for most ppl to play.

Notice MOST VIEWED VOD does not have any time frame requirements associated with it, your new argument is also invalid. Nice try.

Most viewed is most viewed of all time and that happens to be by millions of people. Sorry dude, you lose. Accept it. Deal with it.

How on earth did Hawken manage to survive without riding on the backs of comp players during those 3 years without TPG. I fuzzy bunnyng wonder.
 

And I easily exposed you for having nothing to do with the active playing community here.

And yet here I stand, making posts. Having nothing to do with any community here right?  How ironic. Do you see how conflicting your statement even is? If I was avoiding the community, I wouldn't be posting. XD
 

I listed 81 call signs while you try to explain why your friends are imaginary.

I don't need to list all of my friends to prove anything to anyone. I don't need support from others to back my statements proving you were wrong with your ridiculous falsehoods. I just needed the facts. Facts I showed to you. Facts you refuse to acknowledge.

Yeah, that just happened.
 

It's pretty clear why you prefer videos by total viewpoint and are averse to searching according to RELEVANCE.

Yeah it is, BECAUSE YOU FUZZY BUNNYNG SAID AND I QUOTE:
 

Comp Hawken is the most viewed Hawken on VOD and streams. Your opinions are extremely marginal. There's always MWO if it's too fast for you.

Can you understand why its pretty clear why anyone would prefer videos by total viewpoint, instead of relevance? Its because you didn't say relevance you stubborn ignorant fool.
 

Because that old marketing video of Hawken in its infancy doesn't represent the game we play now accurately, and neither do you.

If you remember correctly thats what this whole thread was about when it started. Ironic again it seems.

I sense a bit of anger there SaltyDus. You mad bro?

I liked the old game way better than since the shitty steam release. I had way more fun early on than I do now in game. I am not alone.
 

Crafty, to be fair, you should admit that you were wrong in the letter of your argument. You did say comp Hawken was the most viewed.
 
SS, to be fair, you should admit, so long as Crafty can agree to the above, that as the discussion has continued and it became a little more clear what he's been trying to say, that you've misinterpreted the spirit of it.

Luckily I won't ever have to admit that, why you may ask, because Crafty won't ever admit he was wrong in the first place. He will do everything he possibly can to squirm and avoid acknowledging it. That much is evident from his actions.  I find it amusing honestly. He's got a set of blinders on. But thanks for pointing that out to him Tickle, I'm afraid its futile though.
 

coincidence?

None, none at all, the player numbers have always been in a steady decline, this happened quickly after every patch. This is all easily shown by you looking at the graphs of player retention over time.

There are a few things that helped boost player numbers.

• Game patches and updates, aka new content, release on steam.
• News of Reloaded buying the IP

Notice: just looking at your graph, the start or end of any season of TPG can be shown to NOT have a significant impact in the number of players.  If that was the case then it would easily be shown as a HUGE peak or valley on the player retention graph.  You and the 80 people are insignificant with your self appointed competitions.  Yes those 81 people did return to play some matches every few days or whatever, but that does not have any coincidence on the number of players actively playing Hawken at any specific time. For you to even hint that is one of the dumbest things I've ever read in one of your posts.

There were 33,701 (� 3,996) people that played Hawken in the last two weeks according to my sources. 81 veterans not playing scheduled matches have no bearing on that number. In fact many of those 81, still played on their own accord, you act like once TPG was over, those 81 people left for good and have not played one single match affecting the number of players available. Pretty sure I can find a few cases of players on your friends list where they have spent hours playing Hawken since TPG was ended.
  

I will maintain that Hawken would be better served and most players would prefer a polishing off of the almost working spectator mode over vr support.
The significantly more active part of the playerbase that enjoys a cornacopia of organized play and events would appreciate the quality increase that the created content would served by.

Ah so the 81 people that need some sort of spectator mode to make their video content more entertaining and appealing to their viewers are more important than anyone else in Hawken. It has all suddenly become so clear.

The fact is, even with a spectator mode and comp matches happening, nobody but your own group of 81 players are going to be there to watch. There are not any TPG fanbios, like there are a real competitive scene like CS:GO. TPG has no following other than those directly involved.

Thats the part you fail to recognize most of all. How many people really watch these TPG matches happen live Salty? How many Hawken fans even give a fuzzy bunny?

This whole thing about needing spectator mode is complete horse fuzzy bunny. It is useless. Reloaded would be better off fixing the broken gameplay and balance.

Q.E.D. Crafty.

[CraftyDus]

Poorly strawmanning forum posts is all you contribute to Hawken ss396.

We are playing it, and we'd enjoy spectator mode long before vr support.

So you can better see what that looks like.

 

M.C.B. SS.

[Sylhiri]

Keyword here ->new devs<- meaning they could change everything about the game and hell I would be surprised if they didn't.

 

IMO they should have wiped the game clean when they had the chance at the beginning and removed the option to purchase anything with MC. MC, HC, Internals, Mechs, Levels, etc gone. Now they make any change and they are constrained by the fact that people purchased those items with real money and need to tip toe around everything.

[ticklemyiguana]

 

M.C.B. SS.

Money, cash, beaches?

 

edit: NOO. WHEN WAS MY 1,000TH POST???? WAS IT IN THIS THREAD? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Edited by ticklemyiguana, 15 January 2016 - 05:14 PM.

[SS396]

This constitutes either poor reading comprehension from SS396 or an intentional strawman fallacy.  From fallacyfiles.org, "Straw man is one of the best-named fallacies because it is memorable and vividly illustrates the nature of the fallacy.  Imagine a fight in which one of the combatants sets up a man of straw, attacks it, then proclaims victory.  All the while, the real opponent stands by untouched."

Nept, since you don't seem to understand and would rather conjure up theories instead of explaining the direct path. I was combining both of his his fallacies as stated below:

Comp Hawken is the most viewed Hawken on VOD and streams. Your opinions are extremely marginal. There's always MWO if it's too fast for you.

AND

Most hawken created content that's out there is people involved in organized play. 
This stuff is on google boys, you're the ones stuck in a bubble.

Nice attempt though, but back to the drawing board for you to search for another tid bit to nitpick.

I mean, lets not even point out the fact that the most relevant returned video when searching for Hawken on Youtube, doesn't have anything to do with ANY organized play at fuzzy bunnyng all. Its just some tips and tricks from someone that happens to be associated with it.

[ticklemyiguana]

I mean, lets not even point out the fact that the most relevant returned video when searching for Hawken on Youtube, doesn't have anything to do with ANY organized play at fuzzy bunnyng all. Its just some tips and tricks from someone that happens to be associated with it.

 

eh. ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. That's reaching, at least the "not anything to do with" part. Part of the reason Merl's as good as he is and is able to competently make such a video is his involvement in competitive play.

 

True, it's not "hey this is a competitive Hawken match" but, anything at all?

[Nept]

 

Oh look.

 

Drama. 

 

 

 

Most hawken created content that's out there is people involved in organized play. 

This stuff is on google boys, you're the ones stuck in a bubble.

 

Ok, lets google.

 

https://www.youtube....ew_count&page=1

 

How do you explain the missing competitive matches holding the top view counts?

 

As I've already explained, you either misinterpreted Crafty's statement or deliberately crafted a strawman.

 

Fortunately, this is easily resolved.  Crafty, were you stating that content created by Hawken's competitive community would have the most views on youtube?

Edited by Nept: Ultra Lord of the God-Kings, 15 January 2016 - 05:37 PM.

[CraftyDus]

nope

[coldform]

IMO they should have wiped the game clean when they had the chance at the beginning and removed the option to purchase anything with MC. MC, HC, Internals, Mechs, Levels, etc gone. Now they make any change and they are constrained by the fact that people purchased those items with real money and need to tip toe around everything.

 

are you stating this as a solution to the "pay-to-win" argument?

 

While that would have eliminated any "Semi--Solid" point of focus for a "pay-to-win" argument, I think that people would have still argued (albeit incorrectly) that hawken is a "P2W" title.

 

Also, having all the "purchasable features" with a real money Buy-in was the current method for successful F2P titles.  Honestly, having the option for real money buy-ins makes sense from a business standpoint, especially when you have no guarantee of a player spending money on your game.

 

after some thought, I can see what you are saying would be a viable option, even if there were purchases made later on.

 

"we like tuning points just as much as the players, but we are going to remove them from the client due players simply duplicating optimal builds, and keep them on the platform side in order to more easily balance the mechs."

 

There were TONS of players that invested a lot of time into the tuning point system, and ADH simply took it away from them, all in one sentence and one patch.  I don't think there was any real repercussions from this choice - to remove one of the options that players had to customize their gameplay experience - mainly because there was no real "customization", but the eventual discovery of the optimal distribution of tuning points.  Based on this course of action, the devs could switch to a paid service game at the cost of alienating some of the current playerbase, but with the chance reward of increasing revenue.  only if that were to happen would the removal of MC purchases be feasible.  

 

In the end, it's their game, and if they are worth their salt, they are weighing out all of their options, including this one.  Who's to stop them from deciding to go this route, and simply state that "it's the best choice for the current state of things"?

[SS396]

eh. ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. That's reaching, at least the "not anything to do with" part. Part of the reason Merl's as good as he is and is able to competently make such a video is his involvement in competitive play.
 
True, it's not "hey this is a competitive Hawken match" but, anything at all?

Don't get me wrong. I'm not bashing Merls video here. I think its put together very well and contains very useful information. But the fact is that that video could of been from any Hawken veteran that has put in the time, associated with TPG or not.