311 replies to this topic

[spinningchurro]

[spinningchurro]

10:30 into the video:

 

"I'm sorry, what was the plot of this game again?"

 

"TVs that come to life."

 

"YOU CAN'T DODGE MY SIDESTEP ABILITY!"

Edited by spinningchurro, 08 October 2015 - 05:58 PM.

[spinningchurro]

13:42

 

"This game is ****ing fun..."

 

"Dude I'm ENJOYING this game"

[IareDave]

Visually speaking, Hawken had more HUD clutter and was more taxing on computers rigs back in the old versions. Now, it's more streamlined and can be accessed by a larger player base.

 

However, my issue with both oldschool and current gameplays of Hawken is that they are not showcasing the full potential of Hawken and they are made by big-name youtuber's or current players who aren't very skilled and their footage doesn't showcase what Hawken is really like. More specifically, most of the gameplay I've seen is slow-paced, lots of stand-still and shoot or casual strafing, no use of emps/shields to alter the engagement etc.

 

If and when Josh decides to start marketing Hawken I think the community would benefit from having a few highly skilled players showcasing what the top tier gameplay of Hawken is like and hopefully gamers who like faster paced games will see what Hawken has to offer.

Edited by IareDave, 08 October 2015 - 06:05 PM.

[spinningchurro]

I'm of the opinion that most of hawken's players suck compared to me and you, and we (people who post on the forums, 1800+ MMR, etc.) are a very small minority.

 

While we're important, I honestly don't think we should be the biggest priority if we want Hawken to thrive (not just stay on life support), despite us being the most vocal group.

 

What do you think?

 

Edit:

 

Do you think Hawken can really appeal to the hardcore gamer crowd more?  Should both casual and hardcore gamer markets be pursued?

 

 

Also, that video makes hawken look visually more appealing, but my FOV is maxed and I have some graphics settings disabled so I can't really say.

Edited by spinningchurro, 08 October 2015 - 06:14 PM.

[thirtysix]

Other side of the coin:

Fast is ok, but the game seemed to play better team wise when it was slower, more methodical IMHO. There was more than the single strategy of the run and gun it is now.

[americanbrit14]

I'm of the opinion that most of hawken's players suck compared to me and you, and we (people who post on the forums, 1800+ MMR, etc.) are a very small minority.

 

While we're important, I honestly don't think we should be the biggest priority if we want Hawken to thrive (not just stay on life support), despite us being the most vocal group.

 

What do you think?

well dave is one of the 5 contenders for the top #1 slot in all of hawken, but that aside

 

i remember someone saying that all players over 2100 mmr were the 1% and that was out of all the players that were online within like a month or something.

 

So it's not all that surprising to see that people below that 2000 mark are quite worse than that top 1% (i can't Language correctly right now so bare with me)

Out of the total number of accounts that have been active within the last 21 or so days, (according to the mmr stats here http://home.xshade.c...nt/21-days/mmr/and this may be wrong) only 744 out of over 35,000 users were above 2000 mmr, and that's 2%

 

So yes, we are a very small fraction of the full hawken community even though we seem to be the only ones that really speak up.

 

I have no idea if i was just here to type opinions or to prove something, but don't take this as me trying to prove you wrong or anything...

 

Though, to be completely honest, it would be nice to mix in a few videos very high tier matches just as an example of some of the extremes this game can reach, rather than just the low tier matches that Dave mentioned.

 

Edit: Fun fact, turns out there is possibly someone at 800 mmr.

 

Edit II: Back in the good old days if item cooldowns...   ahhh memories of hologram shenanigans. 

Edited by Jason Endrago, 08 October 2015 - 06:43 PM.

[bacon_avenger]

Ascension did bring a lot of needed optimizations to the engine and, as dave mentioned, did make it more accessible to more players.

 

For me, the bottom line is that I enjoyed the older version a lot more.

 

When Ascension was pushed out, I virtually lost all interest in playing.  As Hawken is now, it's not as bad, but I still don't have anywhere near as much fun playing as I did back then, which tends to make me choose something else when I do have some free time.

[Merl61]

Visually speaking, Hawken had more HUD clutter and was more taxing on computers rigs back in the old versions. Now, it's more streamlined and can be accessed by a larger player base.

 

However, my issue with both oldschool and current gameplays of Hawken is that they are not showcasing the full potential of Hawken and they are made by big-name youtuber's or current players who aren't very skilled and their footage doesn't showcase what Hawken is really like. More specifically, most of the gameplay I've seen is slow-paced, lots of stand-still and shoot or casual strafing, no use of emps/shields to alter the engagement etc.

 

If and when Josh decides to start marketing Hawken I think the community would benefit from having a few highly skilled players showcasing what the top tier gameplay of Hawken is like and hopefully gamers who like faster paced games will see what Hawken has to offer.

Search "hawken" on youtube and look at the first video

[spinningchurro]

 

 

but I still don't have anywhere near as much fun playing as I did back then

 

 

Any specific points as to why?  I've read that a lot of veteran players feel like this.

[bacon_avenger]

Any specific points as to why?  I've read that a lot of veteran players feel like this.

I'd have to think on it to give specifics, but my initial response is that it just doesn't have the same 'feel' to it.

 

For me, the way it looked, sounded, and mechanics all just tied everything together in a way that made it something that I just wanted to keep playing.  Alpha 2 had it's problems, but I loved playing it.  It had that 'gritty' feel, I guess you could say.

 

In beta, the 'grit' wasn't as pronounced, but the mech 'store' displayed a bit of lore for each mech, internals actually made 'realistic' changes (more damage for a higher heat generation, more larger EU tanks for lower speed, etc).

 

Perhaps that's part of it, it was before MTR started forcing ADH to take things in certain directions...  Perhaps it still had the 'feel' of a game that was a labor of love and not one that was being driven by a need to start paying off investors...

 

Perhaps one could say that Hawken had more 'soul' back then?

[DeeRax]

GRRBLAH!

Edited by (TDM) DeeRax, 08 October 2015 - 10:09 PM.

[Nept]

Much prefer the current version to Hawken's earlier iterations.

 

*Edit*

• The previous HUD was neat, but didn't present information particularly well. 
• I love the sounds from the early trailers, but those were never in-game. 
• The smaller health pools increased the game's skill ceiling significantly while allowing individuals to have greater impact against groups.  And no, the health revisions didn't turn Hawken into CoD.  If you think that the two have remotely similar ttk's, you're a fuzzy bunnyng terrible CoD player.
• The increased movement speeds and movement options also increased the skill ceiling.  Which I like.
• Almost forgot: The rocket/nade splash radii used to be ENORMOUS, with next to no feathering.  Barely had to aim.  Again, lower skill ceiling.  Which I don't like.

Edited by Nept: Ultra Lord of the God-Kings, 09 October 2015 - 04:39 AM.

[kvazarsky]

Old mech cocpit with integrated hp and fuel looks nice. Definitelly more immersive than current bars.

But that giant crosshair... how could You play with something like this? ;)

[IareDave]

Search "hawken" on youtube and look at the first video

I was talking videos that will attract new player attention. Your guide, though from a skilled perspective, is only going to cater to people already somewhat familiar to the game and/or people who somehow stumbled upon it.

 

I'm talking about gameplay that attracts new players, and there hasn't been a compilation from top tier players that I know of.

[Merl61]

I was talking videos that will attract new player attention. Your guide, though from a skilled perspective, is only going to cater to people already somewhat familiar to the game and/or people who somehow stumbled upon it.

I'm talking about gameplay that attracts new players, and there hasn't been a compilation from top tier players that I know of.

Ah yes. I agree that this should be a thing. Something to add to the Q&A list.

[nepacaka]

i'm still want return back all beta-hawken features in game, like weapon spread, GUI, acceleration, up/down look restriction angle, etc. with current game balance. early it was a real fps-mech-shooter, now it is just a fps-shooter.

 

also, Oh... this thread again...

 

I love the sounds from the early trailers, but those were never in-game.

 

but, it is a CB3 on this video =/

 

The smaller health pools increased the game's skill ceiling significantly while allowing individuals to have greater impact against groups.  And no, the health revisions didn't turn Hawken into CoD.  If you think that the two have remotely similar ttk's, you're a fuzzy bunnyng terrible CoD player.

 

if i understand nept correct, i agree with him. i mean, HP sould be decreased. to make fights more faster, like a samurai duel. 2 dodge, 2 shots... and you die. you dodge in wrong direction - you die. it is like a super fast fight, which based on 1-2 of your decisions.

Edited by nepacaka, 09 October 2015 - 01:05 AM.

[-Tj-]

Old mech cocpit with integrated hp and fuel looks nice. Definitelly more immersive than current bars.

But that giant crosshair... how could You play with something like this? ;)

The old crosshairs were much, much, MUCH better than the current default one. How the heck anyone can aim with those rectangular, shape-shifting reticles is beyond me and should be the absolute first thing to go if/when this thing hits official (non-beta) release. If anything, put 'em back to the old one, or give the player the circular ones instead.

 

Also, I really loved the old cockpit design, even if they were heavier. Truth be told, I don't recall ever really having too many frame rate issues except for certain maps (Origin and Last Eco come to mind), and even if the old one was code-heavy or whatever, I don't see why it couldn't have been optimized. The new bars are a little easier to read, but I never had trouble reading the old in-dash info, either.

[DieselCat]

The old crosshairs were much, much, MUCH better than the current default one. How the heck anyone can aim with those rectangular, shape-shifting reticles is beyond me and should be the absolute first thing to go if/when this thing hits official (non-beta) release. If anything, put 'em back to the old one, or give the player the circular ones instead.

 

Also, I really loved the old cockpit design, even if they were heavier. Truth be told, I don't recall ever really having too many frame rate issues except for certain maps (Origin and Last Eco come to mind), and even if the old one was code-heavy or whatever, I don't see why it couldn't have been optimized. The new bars are a little easier to read, but I never had trouble reading the old in-dash info, either.

 

+1

[nepacaka]

The old crosshairs were much, much, MUCH better than the current default one. How the heck anyone can aim with those rectangular, shape-shifting reticles is beyond me and should be the absolute first thing to go if/when this thing hits official (non-beta) release. If anything, put 'em back to the old one, or give the player the circular ones instead.

 

Also, I really loved the old cockpit design, even if they were heavier. Truth be told, I don't recall ever really having too many frame rate issues except for certain maps (Origin and Last Eco come to mind), and even if the old one was code-heavy or whatever, I don't see why it couldn't have been optimized. The new bars are a little easier to read, but I never had trouble reading the old in-dash info, either.

and the "Rangefinder"! :D

Edited by nepacaka, 09 October 2015 - 04:19 AM.

[StubbornPuppet]

Being unable to resist the habit of coming back on the forum to kill time at work...

 

I liked the old graphic style better, the cockpit better, the effects better, the sounds better and, regardless of how unpopular, the slower game-play.

 

It was more immersive and unique.

 

As for the slower gameplay and the skill ceiling: I think there was a great deal of a different kind of "skill" involved with the slower game-play - it required more thought, planning and timing - where it now is more about faster reflexes and accurate aiming.  I think there is plenty of opportunity to find a balance between the two speeds (that includes movement and TTK).

[_incitatus]

It seems like it used to sound better too.

[Hyginos]

 

Almost forgot: The rocket/nade splash radii used to be ENORMOUS, with next to no feathering.  Barely had to aim.  Again, lower skill ceiling.  Which I don't like.

 

 

I seem to remember that there was actually no feathering at all for some time. Explosions did full damage to all targets within the radius.

 

Also the AR was point accurate for some reason, despite other similar weapons having blooming cones of fire.

 

Personally I think the version of Hawken that launched on 12/12/12 was much better looking than what we have now, but I'm not sure the gameplay was as refined as what we have now. It would be cool if we could keep that aesthetic, but in terms of player retention I don't think it is a high priority.

Edited by Hyginos, 09 October 2015 - 11:11 AM.

[-Tj-]

It seems like it used to sound better too.

It did sound better. It sounded much more like a warzone.

 

[Garx]

i miss old hawken 

play siege with pro players exeon immortal evolwar 

 servers are empty now,sry my bad english

[DieselCat]

Being unable to resist the habit of coming back on the forum to kill time at work...

 

I liked the old graphic style better, the cockpit better, the effects better, the sounds better and, regardless of how unpopular, the slower game-play.

 

It was more immersive and unique.

 

As for the slower gameplay and the skill ceiling: I think there was a great deal of a different kind of "skill" involved with the slower game-play - it required more thought, planning and timing - where it now is more about faster reflexes and accurate aiming.  I think there is plenty of opportunity to find a balance between the two speeds (that includes movement and TTK).

 

I want your job ! ...........

 

*+

[_incitatus]

It did sound better. It sounded much more like a warzone.

I distinctly remember hearing a Vulcan coming around the curve into the big room of uptown and thinking how awesome it sounded.

Now it sounds like a farting lawnmower.

[Durandal1707]

It did sound better. It sounded much more like a warzone.

 

 

HOLY FUG :D !!! that is beautiful.

 

You see this reloaded, capnjosh or whoever is behind the game now, you see this s_hit, THIS is how Hawken needs to be, the graphics, the HUD, that movement speed, that god tier sound effects. Everything spot on, just a video and it feels 10 times more immersive than the quake 3 wanna be that we have now. I don't care if it was more taxing on the computer back in the day, this is amazing.

 

I envy the people that played this version T-T

[americanbrit14]

It did sound better. It sounded much more like a warzone.

 

Though I myself am not a programmer (Well, still studying and learning) nor was I playing hawken back in the ye olden alpha days 2.8 years ago, i can definitely see a few ways the old hud could be optimized to both look better and put less stress on the computer.  

 

Such as:

 

Relocate timer to where it is now, just without the box or the bar

Remove the exp counter (moderately useless)

Though the radial compass looks cool, it is not useful enough to really keep

Remove the two things below the crosshair when zoomed in (what even are those, a spectrograph and... a... thing that looks like it does something)

Replace old radar with new radar, for performance purposes 

I don't see why a distance marker would be needed on teammates, possibly enemys, but even then

 

and maybe its just me but it looks like there were a lot more particle effects back then.

 

Those are the only ones i can think of when looking at that. But what do i know, i'm just some rando on a forum.

[JackVandal]

i really like the aesthetic of the old style, though, i think the current game is gorgeous as well if you can turn it up (not i said the fly) i think some of the feel could be reclaimed with the current game play, and once hawken has updates rolling again, getting groups like rooster teeth (who have a huge fan base) to revisit hawken could be very good for the game, once the "new players loose 3 of 4 games he play" thing is better.

[kvazarsky]

With all due respect to veterans (and ADH), these old Hawken gameplays with slower mechs without dodges looks like... Mechwarrior. A bit faster, but still a copy of MW. Don't get me wrong, MW is cool, but it has enough games - old, present, upcoming and even mods if you dig deep enough. Hawken, as it is now, has pretty unique gameplay for mecha games. Of course there is a lot of room for tweaks in many directions, but it just feels right as it is now.

 

The old crosshairs were much, much, MUCH better than the current default one. How the heck anyone can aim with those rectangular, shape-shifting reticles is beyond me and should be the absolute first thing to go if/when this thing hits official (non-beta) release. If anything, put 'em back to the old one, or give the player the circular ones instead.

 

I agree that current default crosshair is pretty bad, but there is variety of others to unlock. I also prefer circular one, just not that big (and without integrated compass :P).

Edited by kvazarsky, 10 October 2015 - 06:22 AM.

[bacon_avenger]

With all due respect to veterans (and ADH), these old Hawken gameplays with slower mechs without dodges looks like... Mechwarrior. A bit faster, but still a copy of MW.

Actually, dodging (ground) has been in the game since the very beginning. The air compressor was added by the ascension patch.

And while I could be wrong, someone a while ago pointed out that the current speeds are close to alpha. But it's not just the speeds that turn me off to the current build, it's a lot of things that I can't quite put into exact words.

 

I agree that current default crosshair is pretty bad, but there is variety of others to unlock. I also prefer circular one, just not that big (and without integrated compass :P).

I rather liked the old style crosshairs. The current ones get lost in the scenery and explosions too easily for me, they aren't 'thick' enough and the colours on offer don't work well enough to offset that.

Edited by bacon_avenger, 10 October 2015 - 04:57 PM.

[LoC_TR]

i miss old hawken 

play siege with pro players exeon immortal evolwar 

 servers are empty now,sry my bad english

I reminisce those days as well, there was a large skilled following in hawken for a while, I feel sorry for those that missed out on the heydays. I distinctly remember getting my ass handed to me by Mexichan's Rocketeer on the reg.

[kvazarsky]

Actually, dodging (ground) has been in the game since the very beginning. The air compressor was added by the ascension patch.

And while I could be wrong, someone a while ago pointed out that the current speeds are close to alpha. But it's not just the speeds that turn me off to the current build, it's a lot of things that I can't quite put into exact words.

 
I rather liked the old style crosshairs. The current ones get lost in the scenery and explosions too easily for me, they aren't 'thick' enough and the colours on offer don't work well enough to offset that.

 

Crosshairs are too thin, true. TF2 has it covered quite right, you can't lost track of something like this even in the most intense fights:

Spoiler

 

Sorry about dodging, my bad. In my defence, these players mostly just walk. Or maybe I skipped too much video.

[M4st0d0n]

Yawn.

[HugeGuts]

The faster and smoother game play makes Hawken more consistently exciting than it used to be. However, I still can't recommend Hawken to new players. The health pools are still too low. Yeah, you've probably heard this 1,000 times. But as far as I can tell, it's the number one reason why new players don't stick around. They just die too fast to learn from their mistakes. And co-op TDM can only help a new player so much when bots and players use completely different tactics.

 

I see no problem in bumping the average base health to something like pre-Steam levels when it can only retain new players. Like 500/700/900. This wouldn't affect balance either, as the point spread between averages would be the same as it is now. The longer battles also might make heat and fuel mean something again.

Edited by HugeGuts, 17 October 2015 - 11:34 AM.

[Nightfirebolt]

I still think #increasethespeeds was a mistake.

 

*Throws two pennies into jar*

Edited by Nightfirebolt, 17 October 2015 - 12:03 PM.

[nepacaka]

Ascension was a mistake, and not an #increasethespeed.

Every month someone create a topic like "I jump in hawken, but why this game not look like in video?"

Edited by nepacaka, 17 October 2015 - 01:06 PM.

[Sylhiri]

 

I see no problem in bumping the average base health to something like pre-Steam levels when it can only retain new players. Like 500/700/900. This wouldn't affect balance either, as the point spread between averages would be the same as it is now. The longer battles also might make heat and fuel mean something again.

 

There were problems with the larger health pools back then, now with all the ascension crap it will be even worse.

Edited by Sylhiri, 17 October 2015 - 01:53 PM.

[bacon_avenger]

I still think that going back to alpha/cb2 values would be worth trying.  That's when Hawken was the most fun for me.