There were problems with the larger health pools back then, now with all the ascension crap it will be even worse.
After looking at some early beta videos, I realize my suggested values are too high. Early beta had 500/675/850. So what I really want is an average of 450/650/850. That's the closest you can get to the old values while maintaing the current spread of about 200 and not go over the old average. A global health increase of 115 is the closest you can get to this new average without making invidividual health values end in not 0 or 5 and look wonky, and without messing individual mech health balance. The actual average with a 115 global increase is around 449/647/845.
Also, I wonder why health values haven't adjusted even slightly since Reloaded took charge. Reloaded has made at least one balance change I can remember with the MG Turret. So wouldn't other simple number adjustments be just as easy? It can't hurt to try after the community beating to death the realization of the current health values having a large responsiblity in the game's bleeding player base numbers.
the one thing i really notice about the old hawken from the video are the background sounds, idk if they are other fights, or just constant noise, and there is a lot more particle effects,
"but the dead horse has been beaten so many times it's practically a pulpy mess in the barn by now."
Visually speaking, Hawken had more HUD clutter and was more taxing on computers rigs back in the old versions. Now, it's more streamlined and can be accessed by a larger player base.
However, my issue with both oldschool and current gameplays of Hawken is that they are not showcasing the full potential of Hawken and they are made by big-name youtuber's or current players who aren't very skilled and their footage doesn't showcase what Hawken is really like. More specifically, most of the gameplay I've seen is slow-paced, lots of stand-still and shoot or casual strafing, no use of emps/shields to alter the engagement etc.
If and when Josh decides to start marketing Hawken I think the community would benefit from having a few highly skilled players showcasing what the top tier gameplay of Hawken is like and hopefully gamers who like faster paced games will see what Hawken has to offer.
LOL.
So to draw in a larger audience it's best to show footage of the game being played by "pro's", playing the game at a super high level which in now way will reflect an average players experience well, EVER. Which has already been proven time and again that the majority of players can't even achieve that level of play now, but somehow showing this high level of play will convince the mass market (average players) to start playing....
So to be clear, an average player playing the game to potentially recommend the game to other more often than not, average players, is the wrong way to go about things? The delusions continue, and I just laugh.
Cue the hashtags, #increasethespeeds, #raisetheskillceiling #ACgate #getgud
p.s watching high tier matches while I find them interesting, and the skill on display is often impressive since I've been playing the game long enough to understand what's happening, it's important to note that those matches do not look like fun. In fact visually Hawkens gameplay look horrendous at those levels.
I hope the new dev teams learns from the mistakes of the last team. #hightierMMRdecisions
understandable points, characteristic bad attitude, strawmen, dead horse beating
I might agree with you if any of the bigger streamers were even of average skill, but most of them are just plain bad. Their hearts are in the right place, but not their crosshairs.
Edited by cringe_smells, 26 October 2015 - 09:52 AM.
The only games in which top-tier streamers are not also top-tier players are casual and single-player games. Look at league of legends: theres not a single popular streamer who isn't platinum or diamond. Any remotely competitive game will favour top-tier players as streamers because they will showcase the game to its fullest.
And just because you find viewing high-tier gameplay jarring or not fun, doesnt mean others will. In fact, Xacius and condom having the most viewers says people PREFER that gameplay.
So to draw in a larger audience it's best to show footage of the game being played by "pro's", playing the game at a super high level which in now way will reflect an average players experience well, EVER. Which has already been proven time and again that the majority of players can't even achieve that level of play now, but somehow showing this high level of play will convince the mass market (average players) to start playing....
I put like an extra $300 into skins after being encouraged to play the game at a higher level by professional CS streamers. Woo! A data point!
I'm talking about getting people into the game. Watching an average player having a good time will get a larger group of people into hawken than watching a poke fest high tier match.
If your theory was correct, wouldn't more people be into hawken because the top players have the most views?
I'm talking about getting people into the game. Watching an average player having a good time will get a larger group of people into hawken than watching a poke fest high tier match.
If your theory was correct, wouldn't more people be into hawken because the top players have the most views?
I'm talking about getting people into the game. Watching an average player having a good time will get a larger group of people into hawken than watching a poke fest high tier match.
Yes, and live streams of local pee wee football games draw far higher audiences than NFL Thursdays because pee wee games are a good time.
Edited by TheButtSatisfier, 26 October 2015 - 05:01 PM.
Yes, and live streams of local pee wee football games draw far higher audiences than NFL Thursdays because pee wee games are a good time.
Rocket League, only pro's streamed that game which explains the millions of copies sold. Thanks pro Rocket League players. And please don't compare gaming to professional sports.
After looking at some early beta videos, I realize my suggested values are too high. Early beta had 500/675/850. So what I really want is an average of 450/650/850.
You forgot than the old TOW damage was a 185. And all weapons in general have a higher damage than we have now. Current weapon is much weaker.
All of you suggest, increase TTK (ie return ascension). We all know how boring ascension was.
Current values in general are very close to beta.(except a-class)
And please don't compare gaming to professional sports.
why the hell not
Really! You can play a game or watch it played in either scenario and have enthusiasm for it, and I for one think getting to "MLG status" (which is admittedly a phrase I struggle with saying without oven mitts on, but that's my problem) is a hell of a lot more attainable than getting picked up by a pro team and expecting to be getting seriously injured intermittently for years.
We are right on the goddamn cusp of having this stuff become taken seriously by the mainstream and I think that all we need is the passage of time to validate it equally.
And at least my preference for a game/player isn't almost entirely determined by where I was born, which is something generally agreed upon to be out of one's control.
Edited by cynical_smarms, 31 October 2015 - 12:38 PM.
The only games in which top-tier streamers are not also top-tier players are casual and single-player games. Look at league of legends: theres not a single popular streamer who isn't platinum or diamond. Any remotely competitive game will favour top-tier players as streamers because they will showcase the game to its fullest.
And just because you find viewing high-tier gameplay jarring or not fun, doesnt mean others will. In fact, Xacius and condom having the most viewers says people PREFER that gameplay.
That and they are the longest streaming Hawken members. People have favorited them over a few years now and most players have played against them. Most of the people watching hawken streams are regular community members.
CraftyDus likes this
Come on Crafty, you have been officially called out on your lies. Your online reputation is at stake here, this is just like an old school street race running for pink slips. Its run what you brung and hope its enough. Put up or shut the fuzzy bunny up.
And please don't compare gaming to professional sports.
why the hell not
Really! You can play a game or watch it played in either scenario and have enthusiasm for it, and I for one think getting to "MLG status" (which is admittedly a phrase I struggle with saying without oven mitts on, but that's my problem) is a hell of a lot more attainable than getting picked up by a pro team and expecting to be getting seriously injured intermittently for years.
We are right on the goddamn cusp of having this stuff become taken seriously by the mainstream and I think that all we need is the passage of time to validate it equally.
And at least my preference for a game/player isn't almost entirely determined by where I was born, which is something generally agreed upon to be out of one's control.
Why not? They're both equally pointless and attract similar fanboys/girls who bask in the reflected glory of their favourites.
I'm a fan of this player
EOC Raider, Bolt Pred, Rev Gl Gren, EOC Infil, All the Reapers, Father, Expert in Guitar Kung Fu, and Founder of TPG Hawken
How is the skill level of the gamers streaming and publishing gameplaying videos for Hawken, or even the number of views they get a factor if the game itself still runs off new gamers actually willing to give it a try within a handful of days. If being a spectator sport was the goal, someone sure screwed up on monetizing that one on the Hawken team..
I do prefer the old Hawken over what we have now; didn't mind working harder to get the same amount of info out of the hud design, preferred the sound effects and atmosphere of the old Hawken.. but even reverting back to all of the old cosmetics, HP, DMG values and movement mechanics to 2012 probably wouldn't come close to addressing the problems Hawken currently has.
Any marketing video should be engineered and displayed at a level that allows people who are totally unfamiliar with a product to view themselves using it in exactly the same situations. Nothing should be confusing or move at a pace that cannot easily be followed - and that should be balanced by a sense of excitement and anticipation.
Get real. Video 101. Target demographics dont care about some obscure skills you eventually developed betatesting a broken game. They want tits in Evangelion cosplays.
So to draw in a larger audience it's best to show footage of the game being played by "pro's", playing the game at a super high level which in now way will reflect an average players experience well, EVER. Which has already been proven time and again that the majority of players can't even achieve that level of play now, but somehow showing this high level of play will convince the mass market (average players) to start playing....
So to be clear, an average player playing the game to potentially recommend the game to other more often than not, average players, is the wrong way to go about things? The delusions continue, and I just laugh.
That's actually exactly what got me into gaming. For the longest time I was only into RPGs, and I still am into them, still play morrowind. But I never felt the need to get into FPS, and when I'd occasionally play them I wouldn't have much fun. I eventually picked up the orange box solely for portal, and while I did play some TF2 because it came included, I played it at the lowest possible levels, and did so pretty poorly. (talking 24/7 2fort sniper, literally the lowest tier of gaming one could imagine.) That's until I watched reptiles soldier frag video.
This video blew my mind, it completely changed the way I looked at FPS. I'd played the soldier before, but I thought he was slow and no fun. I really just didn't even realize what the class was capable of till that point. That video made me want all of that, I wanted to get those frags, I wanted to make those videos. And it wasn't just about being "good" it really struck a chord with me because of just how incredibly cool itlooked. That's what draws people, that's what games are about, being cool and fun.
And while maybe not everyone has the potential to be very top tier in skill, anyone can be good and get a taste of the action. A lot of players (like I used to) just don't even realize the potential, or think the climb is too daunting, when it's really not that hard. All it takes is the right mindset, and a little thought about how you set out.
I'm talking about getting people into the game. Watching an average player having a good time will get a larger group of people into hawken than watching a poke fest high tier match.
If your theory was correct, wouldn't more people be into hawken because the top players have the most views?
Right.
If YOUR theory was correct, wouldn't the casual footage that's already out there, in combination with the competitive footage as a whole be bringing TONS of people into hawken?
Right.
Good footage will bring people in, they'll be attracted to the action. I've made videos for FF and had the community spam them across reddit, which has had a measurable draw in players. (it's pretty easy to measure in a community that's even smaller than hawken, and you see that new guy say "yeah i saw that one video") The real hard part is getting players to stick around.
EDIT: To add to this, it doesn't really matter who's getting the "most views" because no one's getting that many views in the first place. And to touch back on the original statement, yes the way this game has been marketed is kind of a problem. ADH only ever showed off very slow levels of play you don't even see at intermediate levels of play. It's very likely drawing in the wrong crowds. People who come for the game play they see in trailers are very possibly turned off by the way the game actually plays. The people who might be interested in hawkens game play probably aren't interested in what's advertised to them.
Edited by Massive_Assailant_Stingray, 05 November 2015 - 12:26 PM.
Hawken footage, there was one person streaming the game last weekend. When the game receives a meaningful update, a game changing update, something that steers the game into it's future course, big names need to stream the game. It's about getting eyes on the product and stirring up interest. If after that point people venture off to view the so called pro players and really gravitate to that, that's great. Hawken has an image problem, it has a player base problem, getting the best hawken players to stream the game won't mean boo until there's enough players playing the game to give a sh#!.
So to draw in a larger audience it's best to show footage of the game being played by "pro's", playing the game at a super high level which in now way will reflect an average players experience well, EVER. Which has already been proven time and again that the majority of players can't even achieve that level of play now, but somehow showing this high level of play will convince the mass market (average players) to start playing....
So to be clear, an average player playing the game to potentially recommend the game to other more often than not, average players, is the wrong way to go about things? The delusions continue, and I just laugh.
Cue the hashtags, #increasethespeeds, #raisetheskillceiling #ACgate #getgud
p.s watching high tier matches while I find them interesting, and the skill on display is often impressive since I've been playing the game long enough to understand what's happening, it's important to note that those matches do not look like fun. In fact visually Hawkens gameplay look horrendous at those levels.
I hope the new dev teams learns from the mistakes of the last team. #hightierMMRdecisions
is this guy serious^
I'll quote you "So to draw in a larger audience its best to show footage of the game being played by "pro's", playing the game at a super high level which in now way will reflect an average players experience well, EVER. "
Do you even realize how small this community is? If I told you the lobby MMR spread is typically a 1000 or so difference would you believe that? https://community.pl...t/?fromsearch=1
The fact is, new players in this game are going to have to deal with a sizable list of average/great/SSJ3 type of players on the regular, and sometimes on there first game (i noticed this a lot recently)
People should, in my opinion, know what a game is really like before they put time into it, because if they prefer a slow and relaxed type shooter or games in general, they will be disappointed with what Hawken truly has to offer.
People should, in my opinion, know what a game is really like before they put time into it, because if they prefer a slow and relaxed type shooter or games in general, they will be disappointed with what Hawken truly has to offer.
This is what it was offering a long time ago. There are plenty of twitch shooters and now Hawken is just melting in with the rest of them.
is this guy serious^
I'll quote you "So to draw in a larger audience its best to show footage of the game being played by "pro's", playing the game at a super high level which in now way will reflect an average players experience well, EVER. "
Do you even realize how small this community is? If I told you the lobby MMR spread is typically a 1000 or so difference would you believe that? https://community.pl...t/?fromsearch=1
The fact is, new players in this game are going to have to deal with a sizable list of average/great/SSJ3 type of players on the regular, and sometimes on there first game (i noticed this a lot recently)
People should, in my opinion, know what a game is really like before they put time into it, because if they prefer a slow and relaxed type shooter or games in general, they will be disappointed with what Hawken truly has to offer.
Dead serious. Hawken needs a huge influx of new players all in a very short period of time. First of all, Hawkens gameplay mechanics are comlex and take a considerably long time to learn, forget master. Secondly, Newbies will not tolerate getting stomped into oblivion by high level players, this is a free to play game in a saturated market place, they will walk away, they have, and will continue to do so.
To get a large influx of players you need two things, a massive update, huge, essentially a relaunch or rebranding tied in with some big name strezmers who more than likely are of average skill level. This could hopefully stir enough interest that enough new players jump on at the same time that they can learn the game together.
I still don't understand how watching hawken at high level play will get a large player base interested. I mean what's the percentage of players above 1800-1900 MMR, not even worth discussing 2000+MMR lol.
Casuals will save hawken, not the hardcore. Get the casuals in, hope they get hooked and become loyal hawken players.
Pro tip, free to play is tough, most games fail. The hardcore echo chamber is real, and hilarious.
Edited by Superkamikazee, 06 November 2015 - 07:35 PM.
The original point this whole thread derail spawned from, is how poorly the game is advertised. In all the ADH trailers hawken is shown as a much slower paced game, it showcases the type of game play that isn't prevalent in even casual levels of hawken play. It basically looks like a different game, and slow paced, much "mechier" game than hawken really is.
People who see those trailers and are interested in that game play, will come in, and even playing against low level players, or even slightly informed new players, and find an entirely different experience. That's a problem, it's drawing in people who aren't interested in hawkens real game play, and potentially turns away those that would be interested. That's where the suggestion of "need footage from good players" comes from. I don't think it's meant to be exclusive or egotistical in any way, it's about properly advertising the game.
I still think that going back to alpha/cb2 values would be worth trying. That's when Hawken was the most fun for me.
some form would have to do a survey and communicate it to the developers ?
I not think we're the only ones who think so .
really alpha / cb was better graphics and gameplay.
The original point this whole thread derail spawned from, is how poorly the game is advertised. In all the ADH trailers hawken is shown as a much slower paced game, it showcases the type of game play that isn't prevalent in even casual levels of hawken play. It basically looks like a different game, and slow paced, much "mechier" game than hawken really is.
People who see those trailers and are interested in that game play, will come in, and even playing against low level players, or even slightly informed new players, and find an entirely different experience. That's a problem, it's drawing in people who aren't interested in hawkens real game play, and potentially turns away those that would be interested. That's where the suggestion of "need footage from good players" comes from. I don't think it's meant to be exclusive or egotistical in any way, it's about properly advertising the game.
Eh, it may just be that the slower paced game in that video that flat out doesn't exist anymore is what the masses want.
I just re-watched the old PAX 2011 Hawken gameplay video (in spoiler tags since these forums like to embed videos where you put links), and years later... I still want to play THAT GAME. Not today's Hawken, I could care less about what it has become, but only a little. In the video it's not MWO slow, but speed and maneuverability are still limited enough that it's at least approachable by people who don't eat, sleep and bleed Hawken.
Seriously, if Reloaded is listening, fix the Hawken experience, and for the love of... , duct tape those rocket launchers back onto the battle-cruiser and figure out how to get it to make that "HHHUUUUURRRNNNNNN" sound from the old videos. After that, they ought to make as many videos and adverts as they can..
Eh, it may just be that the slower paced game in that video that flat out doesn't exist anymore is what the masses want.
I just re-watched the old PAX 2011 Hawken gameplay video (in spoiler tags since these forums like to embed videos where you put links), and years later... I still want to play THAT GAME. Not today's Hawken, I could care less about what it has become, but only a little. In the video it's not MWO slow, but speed and maneuverability are still limited enough that it's at least approachable by people who don't eat, sleep and bleed Hawken.
Seriously, if Reloaded is listening, fix the Hawken experience, and for the love of... , duct tape those rocket launchers back onto the battle-cruiser and figure out how to get it to make that "HHHUUUUURRRNNNNNN" sound from the old videos. After that, they ought to make as many videos and adverts as they can..
Spoiler
I'm guessing this is what you're looking for ?
*+
Garx likes this
Just Relax....and take life one game at a time....
Old CB Hawken, I liked that version. Though, this game really needs some way to either record (WoT style) or spectate to make more interesting videos. Watching other people play Hawken is still boring to me, even if it's the version of Hawken that I liked.
I've been saying this for years, those older videos have the atmosphere, visuals, audio, movement speed and feel that Hawken is supposed to have.
I hate that the current visuals took a complete dive, I'm so sick of hearing people, pc gamers mind you, complaining about this game being demanding. My 5yr old 560ti has never had issues running this game. Buy a damn $100 750ti, you'll be fine with that.
Audio, why is it complete crap now?
And gameplay, how many times does this have to be repeated. The current fast pace, over the top chaos to create this "high skill ceiling", " skill gap", has totally killed this games approachability. It's so bad.
But some people just don't get it, they really don't. Now the game is a mess, barely anyone outside of 300 people cares about the game, and bringing Hawken out of near non existence is going to a huge challenge. If massive changes aren't made, there's no point in even bothering.
The current fast pace, over the top chaos to create this "high skill ceiling", " skill gap", has totally killed this games approachability.
A game is bound to develop a skill gap when it has a narrow audience and stays on the same patch for years.
Also, fast? Over the top? Chaos? Really? I mean, it isn't slow by any means, but it really doesn't have speed or chaos in greater quantities than any other contemporary shooters, and even then I remain unconvinced that that is bad. Even Call of Duty has bloody jet packs now.
Part of Superkamikazee's point is made just by you comparing it to COD and other contemporary shooters (which I would argue have clearly all become clones of COD MW).
I think that what makes/made Hawken great was the fact that it was NOT anything like the other FPS twitch shooters that spawned from the overwhelming success of Modern Warfare. Players like me, who despise MW/COD, are on the lookout for games that appeal to us because they are not like those.
I've never found justification in "well, everyone else is doing it that way..."
Part of Superkamikazee's point is made just by you comparing it to COD and other contemporary shooters (which I would argue have clearly all become clones of COD MW).
I think that what makes/made Hawken great was the fact that it was NOT anything like the other FPS twitch shooters that spawned from the overwhelming success of Modern Warfare. Players like me, who despise MW/COD, are on the lookout for games that appeal to us because they are not like those.
I've never found justification in "well, everyone else is doing it that way..."
The point I was trying to make was that the pace is not prohibitive, and the skill gap is not a problem in itself.
Skill gap and chaos exists in CSGO, LoL, Starcraft, whatever, but what determines the approchability of those games is the size of the population on either side of the skill gap, not the size of the skill gap (or the pace).
i just think about how my fps got worse and worse over the years.
but, that's my fault.. because it's always my fault
Probably time, as painful as it is, to reformat and reinstall... everything. Blame it on Windows: it is a remnant of the careless way that Windows manages it's file system.
i turn off all my windows updates, but they seem to always update....i remember turing off my computer, and a popup shows up..... it's my fault..it's always been my fault.
my carelessness, my sins... it is my debt to bear alone.....
Sign In
Create Account
Back to top
