253 replies to this topic

[Sorroritas]

Ah I keep reading things on forum and ingame chat like:

"I don't want to have to tryhard everytime I play, I don't want to have to tryhard to not lose MMR, I don't want to lose MMR because of bad teams/noobs in my team, I don't want to lose MMR because I cannot carry all the noobs in my team" and blablabla like that.

 

Yeah well, I don't want to have to do that too. But I have to, else I won't gain MMR or even sustain my MMR.

So I should go and make a smurf, too? Because I don't want to lose my MMR...

 

Or the reasoning with "I want to have fun". So you are the only one entitled to have fun playing Hawken?

What about those other 6 who you totally destroy the game experience. I bet they have a ton of fun with you smurfing in there, that must be the reason why they are leaving the match and are crying about pay-to-win. I have yet to see just 1 smurf in my game that after killing noobs over and over even says something else in chat than "haha nub, yu so baahd" or "I started playing 3 hours ago, is this score good?". (Mind you most of the smurfs are talking trash, the rest is remaining totally silent_ in chat (see what I did there))

 

You know what? On the thread about getting force switched because of leavers in a 15-0 game some troll said something along the lines of "Git gud. You cannot always win, learn to live with it."

So yeah, there's that.

I can live with smurfs wrecking my MMR into the ground. I did for the last 3-4 months.

Some obviously can't live with losing MMR and so they use smurfs.

Edited by Sorroritas, 12 January 2016 - 04:32 AM.

[JeffMagnum]

You're conflating low-MMR (assuming we're primarily discussing top 25 players, that means <2000-2200 or so) smurfs made for stomping with alts that are high enough to balance fairly but let their users experiment with non-meta-compliant loadouts as well as just not give a fuzzy bunny or sit if they feel like it. Would an 1800 MMR server rather have e.g. me in Zerker, SS, or Brawler than in Bruiser, Battletech, or EOC Pred?

Also, most of the people who put forth the justification that they're tired of carrying every time they get on can carry an entire team the majority of the time if they really want to. It just gets old fast, and all we want to do a lot of the time is play the game and have a good time like anyone else.

And the majority of the smurfs who are openly abusive toward lower-skill players without any provocation aren't even top-tier players to begin with, so they're hardly relevant when you're leveling accusations against the 2600+ crowd.

Edited by Brumbpo Tungus, 12 January 2016 - 05:13 AM.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

I can live with smurfs wrecking my MMR into the ground. I did for the last 3-4 months.

 

Can you live with mains wrecking your MMR into the ground?  Reading your post, it's a serious question.

[_incitatus]

Can you live with mains wrecking your MMR into the ground?  Reading your post, it's a serious question.

 

But mains don't wreck MMR like smurfs do.  That's my sole contention about smurfs. 

 

If I were to place second to a 2800 MMR account in DM, my MMR would very likely increase.  I saw it happen in every Sunday Sunday Sunday DM.

 

If I were playing against a lower level 2000 MMR smurf, not only would I have to contend with their underdog bonus but even if I place second to them my MMR would likely go down.  I saw this happen every time I played against Dave's smurfs, to the tune of 100+ MMR lost in an evening. 

 

Smurfs have the effect of lowering the MMR of people who play only their mains while preserving an artificially high MMR rating for those who smurf.  I say it is artificially high because that MMR rating does not reflect the entirety of that player's time in the game. 

 

For the most part, none of this matters.  MMR is just a number right?  Those who really care about it are going to take measures to cultivate that number.  Those who don't care are going to play their mains.  The only time it matters is when we are talking about leader boards or hosting events that are MMR restricted.

 

For the record, I would rather play against hestoned's smurf than not play hestoned at all - but I would rather play his main so I can siphon off his MMR.

[Pleasure_Mortar]

If this whole discussion is doing anything, then it is creating more smurfs just to piss those off even more whining about smurfing.

People won't stop smurfing, people wont stop using alts, no matter how large the community grows as long as making another account is easy. 

 

From a business point of view having people create alts is not bad either. I was thinking about buying some MC for my alt to get some cosmetics and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

[TheButtSatisfier]

I like to think of a "smurf" account as a young alt account whose MMR hasn't yet stabilized at whatever level that player is playing at. Once the MMR of that account stabilizes then I'd call it an "alt".

 

The only reason why I made a smurf (now alt) account was because I realized that playing against smurfs was nuking my main's MMR in the same fashion that Inci and others are describing. For context, this was around when KirkGoneWild and I were both just realizing that smurfs were a thing, so it wasn't soon after that we started understanding the hilarious effect playing against them had on our gainz. We were frustrated about it for a few hours, but after discussing the topic, we concluded that the only way to mitigate the effects of playing against smurfs was to make smurfs ourselves.

[CraftyDus]

I knew it was Hestoned the second OP posted.
Kid loves smash, scout, and gren.
I can guess who most of the alts I see in games.
If I don't recognize 'em, they probably aren't anybody anyway. Hahahahahahaha!

Public matchmaking rated tdm's are just for warming up for Actual Matches.
It's hilarious how seriously some pub players think about this stuff.

If you top the scoreboard in a random pub you have accomplished nothing and impressed nobody that matters.

Imagine my reaction to the prevelant megalomania that was pure pub clans with zero in the way of an organized team scene when I first discovered this game.

I would suggest to join or make a real team and play in an actual match.
Otherwise it's just goofing off anyway.
This stuff isn't important, That's how I feel.

[M4st0d0n]

Happy to: here

 

I usually stop reading math stuff when it starts in the foreword with "educated guesswork". But hey nice try. Beside, your slides are inconsistent with the assertion you made about MMR going negative and being designed as a lognormal repartition.

 

You realize that my post you are quoting there was submitted after your post

 

I know rite, It was amazing. Big time inception you did to yourself.

Edited by M4st0d0n, 12 January 2016 - 08:48 AM.

[cbrxx]

All I want to know is who owns this one and can I get some lessons?

http://hawken.heroku...xplosion_master

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

I usually stop reading math stuff when it starts in the foreword with "educated guesswork". But hey nice try. Beside, your slides are inconsistent with the assertion you made about MMR going negative and being designed as a lognormal repartition.

Your post says that you are both bad at math/logic and bad at peer review.

The spreadsheet I built to test agrees with observation closely. In this system, the 'cap' is the range on the lognormal, 0-3000.

One can go negative just as one can go over 3000. Xac has shown.

[M4st0d0n]

If this whole discussion is doing anything, then it is creating more smurfs just to piss those off even more whining about smurfing.

People won't stop smurfing, people wont stop using alts, no matter how large the community grows as long as making another account is easy. 

 

From a business point of view having people create alts is not bad either. I was thinking about buying some MC for my alt to get some cosmetics and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

 

So be it. But dont think about buying. It's still not good enough for business. Buy. Let the milk flow for Reloaded to get motivated.

 

It still wont fix low pop, matchmaker and a lack of ranked games with a proper ladder distinct from pubbing, which is the main problem here IMO. Smurfing is the only problem the community could have solved by itself, by despising it instead of promoting it. But obviously people needed it so bad to do their stats homework.

[M4st0d0n]

Your post says that you are both bad at math/logic and bad at peer review.

The spreadsheet I built to test agrees with observation closely. In this system, the 'cap' is the range on the lognormal, 0-3000.

One can go negative just as one can go over 3000. Xac has shown.

 

Yeah darling I'm harsh at peer review. When do you publish your paper? Shouldnt it be wise to find a player with negative MMR before submitting? I'm sure Ashfire could create one for you if you ask him nicely.

[TheButtSatisfier]

Smurfing is the only problem the community could have solved by itself, by despising it instead of promoting it.

 

Oh man. You don't seriously believe that an online gaming community would just happen to collectively settle on a single side of a controversial topic, do you?

 

You realize that smurfing is the kind of "problem" whose negative effects can be partially mitigated by making a smurf yourself, right? Can you understand how that makes for a nifty feedback cycle of people making smurfs to address the MMR drop you get by playing against smurfs? This isn't some moral dilemma that we need to go to the chapel to absolve ourselves of sin of, this is a common online gaming phenomenon with roots in basic human behavior, and taking a "just say no to drugs smurfing" community approach to it is going fail spectacularly.

Edited by TheButtSatisfier, 12 January 2016 - 09:41 AM.

[DallasCreeper]

This is just getting worse, and worse, and worse...    

[TheButtSatisfier]

This is just getting worse, and worse, and worse...

 

Really? The last page and a half has been civil debate. Does it stress you out?

[CraftyDus]

Tell me, Crafty. How well do you know highly-skilled players from other regions than US and EU?

 

 

I've known an expert African infiltrator very well, An Alaskan or two (that's near Russia), and an Armenian woman who play Hawken.

 

We are all very sorry for you that nobody plays hawken where you live.

I wish it were different.

 

Nobody understands exactly what you are disagreeing with here, or what you are saying about a few people that you once-upon-a-time played Hawken with, in Oceania (that I also do not now play Hawken with) have to do with me knowing who is playing Hawken in the regions where people still regularly do play Hawken.

 

Here are some suggestions to help find ways to participate in the topic of this thread and perhaps the Hawken community in general:

 

I would suggest moving to somewhere nearer to civilization to play against people on smurf accounts (topical), acclimating to 400ms latency on a smurf account (ouch), or convincing other people living in the Pacific Ocean to play Hawken on smurf accounts (preferred method).

 

Or don't. Do something else. That'd be OK too.

 

I think nothing of contributing giant gobs of free time to help establish a comp community in order to play this game like it's a salaried job. For fun.

And getting to know and admire others who do the same, despite the occasional disagreement.

 

You could try that.

But it might be too late for that where you are. In any case glhf.

All the best.

 

I'm CraftyDus, et al.

 

 

 

relevant gif:

 

Spoiler

[Silverfire]

I'll play on Oceania on a smurf.

[x9x8x7x]

I usually stop reading math stuff when it starts in the foreword with "educated guesswork". But hey nice try. Beside, your slides are inconsistent with the assertion you made about MMR going negative and being designed as a lognormal repartition.

 

 

I know rite, It was amazing. Big time inception you did to yourself.

 

Good to know willful stupidity is alive still in 2016, I was worried there for a minute.

 

*Edit: Everyone else I am done and I apologize for subjecting you to this.

Edited by x9x8x7x, 12 January 2016 - 10:32 AM.

[Luaq]

Warning: This is not written for anyone to take offense to whatsoever.

 

 Okay here's my two cents on this matter.  After reading through a majority of these posts, I have come to the conclusion that I am very disappointed at the display of this community.  MMR no MMR.  Smurfs no Smurfs.  I have only been playing this game since April of 2015.  During my time as a new player... I can understand the frustration of figuring out how to play in CO-OP matches, and regular player versus player matches,  while learning all the ins and outs of the maps, also learning the strengths and weaknesses of every mech (a lot of this I am still trying to figure out), and playing in a competitive clan (Trentik Defense Milita Represent!!).  I have had my fair share of unbalanced matches due to MMR not being balanced because of Smurfs or aimbots and sometimes it just comes down to teams just not working together.  Through all of this I have played without knowing the community and knowing the community.  I get the frustration that most of us have faced in unbalanced matches due to Smurfs or Aimbots or what have you.  But when I found out there was a community I could reach out to for help like here in the forums or on Teamspeak, that is when my love for this game and the community exploded to a level most of you can relate to.  People are upset because the Smurfs in question are ruining the game for newer players.

 

 When I was a newer player I can remember the first name I saw over and over again whether I won or lost was JeffMagnum.  And instead of getting pissed at him, I decided to reach out and ask for help.  Obviously I didn't know whether or not he was a good person or a Smurf but I still asked for help and he spent a full day with me showing me the basics and helping me improve my skills.  I am not an amazing player by no means but he helped me learn far more than I would have being on my own.  Since that moment I chose to respect anyone who has been playing this game longer than me and can honestly prove why they are so good at it.  I have played with the majority of the top players on the NA servers and I talk with most of them on TS and what I've learned is they are willing to help players in this community get to a level where the games are more competitive and skill based.  But seeing as how there are not many high MMR players in this community I can understand making a smurf just to be able to play a game you care about so much, especially if you have put in a lot of hours playing it.

 

Not all smurfs are horrible people looking to wreck every new players dream of playing Hawken proficiently.  Yeah, they could play on their mains...but most people would probably freak out and leave a server if they saw Hestoned's name enter unless they didn't know about him.  I would hate to play a game where every time I entered a server everyone left.  That would not be fun at all for me.  I can understand wanting to play with friends that have a lower MMR and handicapping myself if it meant having fun by making a Smurf.  And if anyone has tried to lower their MMR just to play with friends, you should know that it can take a long time, especially the higher your MMR is.  Not all Smurfs are created for "evil" reasons.  Instead of bashing members of the community for making Smurfs, why not talk to newer players and get them in the Hawken Teamspeak or where ever to help them get to higher levels so there wouldn't be such a need for Smurfs? The negativity I have seen through some people in this game is something I feel makes new players run in the other direction.  Who wants to play a game and see someone do nothing other than bash the team who is working on the game for us, or the players that have been around since day one, or all the problems that this game has?  It's stupid and immature.  Our clan has had newer players from other FPS games increase there skills faster than players left alone just based off of support alone.  

 

MMR works if the community puts the time in to help build it.  Obviously it still needs work as with any game but it still works pretty well.  Smurfs wouldn't be a problem if we helped newer players more.  Stop being so negative. I love Hawken and I am tired of these arguments when people want to blame everyone else and no one wants to help be a part of the solution.

 

See you all in Teamspeak and In-game pilots! <3

 

It all goes down to direct in-game communication. I can't stress this enough how mucha working in-game voip would resolve most problems as to learning quickly how to play the game and how to beat the other team with teamwork instead of raging and quitting and fighting by ourselves because most people don't even look at the chat box so it's almost impossible to coordinate a whole team and work as a team unless you know some people. That is why the Teamspeak channel doesn't solve automatically all those problems. First they need to be lucky enough to even hear about it and then make the move to join a channel in a room of people who everyone knows everyone like best buddies except that one guy who joins in and all the looks are turned at him. Way too much trouble in comparison to just be in the game and hear "we really gotta go in the AA zone peeps or we gonna lose it, come out of that spawn and bring your asses over here or we'll lose it." "Hey player013834, come help us at AA, what your doing right now is not helping we need you here!"

PLayer013838 doesn't need a microphone to hear us, doesn't need to download another program, doesn't need to find the server, doesn't need to even think about it while his brain is just so focused on the game. He just get's a live and direct response to what his role is and follows the suggestions.

For thoses who don't have microphones, adding responses and commands to keyboard like ravenshield or counter strike had, directly in-game would at least give another communication tool. Even if they can't speak then can still tap i.e: F1, a menu pops up, then F1 again for "Affirmative"
(I think such chat sentences existed at some point in hidden files of the game but weren't implemented yet?)
(My god here I go again with my big posts...)

 

Let's clear it up.  

 

1. I created this account months, if not years ago, the alt listed in my signature.  

2. I do not identify myself as Silverfire in-game unless asked. People usually don't.

3. Compare MMRs. http://hawken.heroku.../sriracha_sauce& http://hawken.heroku...user/silverfire

 

The first account listed has a lower MMR due to the general fuzzy bunnyery that I've participated in this past week, so it's been bleeding MMR.  Otherwise it's pretty much about on the same level as my "main" account.

 

4. If I am dropped into a lower skill server, I do my best to offer tips and tricks to the other players.  I do not shame anybody, I don't mock anyone, I keep it cordial and polite.  Sometimes it's received well, sometimes it's not.

5. Regardless if I join with Silverfire, Sriracha_Sauce, or any of the other accounts I have which are all 2000 MMR+ except for two I haven't touched literally in months, it won't matter.  Like it actually won't.  If there's one server open, and the average is 1600, if I join with an account that's 2250, 2200, 2150, 2100, 2000 MMR, I highly doubt it would actually matter if I'm on my main or if I'm on an alternate account.  My playstyle remains the same.

6. Let me emphasize that I do not create accounts for the sole purpose of stomping noobs.  

 

Yeah. 

#4 That's very kind and inspirational of you, I thank you for that. But in the situation I was talking about in my OP, sadly, that's not how meleefanatic acted. I tried to talk to him, know his mmr at least or whatever information I could get to understand why he was so good but he remained silent and just stomped everyone. Not helping anyone. I've played against Hestoned in the past, AND I LOVE PLAYING with and mostly against him because I see him as a challenge and want to "get better" and trying to get him myself but that is only when I KNOW it's him. Otherwise it's just someone who's absurdly pro for now reason who doesn't talk and just smashes everyone and clearly isn't in the right game. So he wasn't honest, didn't talk, didn't help. Pretty much stresslessly kill the whole team by itself because it's fun or at least that's the IMPRESSION he's giving off by acting like that

(I can comprehend some reasons why he does it but it's all futile in the end when we look at the end result=>Confusion->Frustrations->Hate->Quitters and ragers or people like me who wants their doubts and questions to be answered and creates a thread and more hate is generated even though the OP was just to Identify someone out of my confusion out of being Post Traumatic after that particular weird, unfair, unplayable game.)

#5 Indeed luckily your alt is indeed your alt account because it even reflects you're mmr stats. So no in your case it doesn't matter.

 

#6 I'm saying this for everyone else hating and treating everyone who has more than one account as douches: No, I doubt you are or most are doing it for the sole purpose of stomping everyone but in the end, if the player is just way too good than the end result is just that.

Again, unless there's some support or tips or honesty coming from the "smurf"', in the end this is all it is because this is what is happening score wise, gameplay wise and indeed making still learning players quit because they are exhausted and confused because they can't even relate to wtf is going how come suddenly* there's this random guy just annihilating the whole team to himself. Bluntly, that is what happens and sadly, no tips or help or even one bit of communication comes from the "demi god" player owning everyone. Hate is generated here for a reason. It's just a overpowered person drowning eveyone else and he's so op that even teamwork doesn't make any difference.


So may I recap again what i've been trying to say and make people understand my true motive is that the problem itself is the game and causing all this. It's current condition, it's current system, it's current small community.

If the ranking system would be different another problem would have a high chance to be solved.
Such as unranked and ranked match. No more MMR whinning. So maybe no smurfs.

If the communication system would be updated another problem would have a high chance be solved.
Naturally way more supportive, leadership, easier real teamwork even in pubs with people you don't know, discuss matters right off the bat when something happens.




Right now, sadly because of the bad state of the game, we, living together, have to find some solid solution for everyone sake. The hate is generated to the smurfs, which are the ones in that case as the ones seen as the problem for the majority, can fix this. Because you are the know-better and have the tools to teach or support or just being honest with yourself and others and know about the difficulties of the game and also know the community and can act as role model. But that is all in your hands. You can ditch all that and just don't give a fuzzy bunny for the low tier mid tier players, but you have a power you can use and all they'll have to do is listen to the wise experienced veteran fighter you are. But don't be surprised if they don't listen and rage or quit instead because you're acting selfishly and at some point even condescendant and just act like " Suck it up and get better loser". You can't be mad at a victim being mad at you while you're actually the "culprit" (even though you are a forced culprit due to this game's flaws and you're "wrongdoings" are somewhat defendable)...

Just be honest, as if you're playing your main and aren't supposed to be in a noob server, I do it every time. And even me, a mid tier player, feel the need to justify my power over new players and be supportive and I do it because I actually care about the best outcome.
 

[Nept]

Right now, sadly because of the bad state of the game, we, living together, have to find some solid solution for everyone sake. The hate is generated to the smurfs, which are the ones in that case as the ones seen as the problem for the majority, can fix this . . . You can't be mad at a victim being mad at you while you're actually the "culprit" (even though you are a forced culprit due to this game's flaws and you're "wrongdoings" are somewhat defendable)...
 

 

You're not talking about "victims".  You're talking about people playing video games and encountering players stronger than themselves.  The false analogies I've seen bandied about within this thread are ridiculous.  You're not remotely similar to a rape victim being blamed for the event.  They're not remotely similar to arsonists, thieves, or murderers.

 

You're playing a game.  They're playing a game.  They've no advantages - and you've no disadvantages - save those provided through skill levels.   So here's another solution: develop some emotional control.

Edited by Nept: Ultra Lord of the God-Kings, 12 January 2016 - 11:27 AM.

[Luaq]

You're not talking about "victims".  You're talking about people playing video games and encountering players stronger than themselves.  The false analogies I've seen bandied about within this thread are ridiculous.  You're not remotely similar to a rape victim being blamed for the event.  They're not remotely similar to arsonists, thieves, or murderers.

 

You're playing a game.  They're playing a game.  They've no advantages - and you've no disadvantages - save those provided through skill levels.   So here's another solution: develop some emotional control.

Waow seriously, you could say that to yourself right now man. That's exactly what I'm talking about. "Shut the fuzzy bunny up and get better"
What noobs are saying are "FFS can I even start to learn anything?" And here you are with that attitude "Shut up loser eat my barrel in your face" or "grow balls/develop some emotional control"

It is in fact my sensibility towards the abuse that made me do this post and my frustration over careless abusers. Because that's what you are, especially with that attitude of yours. Even if you can be "excused" by the poor ranking game design, you're being emotional yourself saying " But my mmr QQ"

Heck I live that same MMR problem like anyone, but some are so sentimental about that, they create smurfs accounts "because the mmr system is so hard on us highest tier players". It's that over-sentimentality over a virtual statistic, the MMR, that pushes some to create a smurf and play against people not of your size consequently breaking the real gameplay experience itself of all the 11 other players. How egotistical is that? You're so self centered that you're making others pay for your "suffering".

You're indeed a great player and a lot of people have much to learn from you, but that attitude just makes you a soar "winner".

Edited by Luaq, 12 January 2016 - 12:13 PM.

[Nept]

 

How egotistical is that?

 

Not as egotistical as drawing comparisons between yourself and a rape victim.  Come off it.

[Superkamikazee]

lol im the culprit. haha you guys assume way too much. i bet most of you didnt even bother too look at my MMR. if you had you would have realized my alt meleefanatic has a higher mmr than 99% of the community. matchmaking is still the same trust me lol. and i made this account like 2 years ago. i know only like 2 other people will understand what its like to build up your mmr over the course of a couple months only to lose half of the work in 1 10 min game. goodbye months of playing. none of you will understand how this feels so you couldnt possibly comprehend why i would make an alt where im not FORCED to carry a team or risk having my ranking drop. i can just waddle around and have fun and not care about the score. to anyone that says well just stop caring then, to be honest thats why your not one of the best players in the game is that fuzzy bunny* mentality right there. just being honest here thats why you will never be as good as the best in this game
 
come at me bro
 
 
*why is s.c.r.u.b censored?

First of all, nice attitude.

Secondly, congratulations, you're the best at a game that nobody cares about...peak players 305. You rule the few. Brag.

 

none of you will understand how this feels so you couldnt possibly comprehend why i would make an alt where im not FORCED to carry a team or risk having my ranking drop.

Your life is so hard. How do you even, like even?

[TheButtSatisfier]

First of all, nice attitude.

Your life is so hard. How do you even, like even?

 

[ticklemyiguana]

/thread.

[n3onfx]

Oh it's one of those NA MMR threads

 

 

Edited by neon, 12 January 2016 - 12:58 PM.

[Miscellaneous]

Oh it's one of those NA MMR threads

 

 

 

[CraftyDus]

Oh it's one of those NA MMR threads

 

 

 

You're a week late

Merry Christmas

 

Superkamikazee, on 12 Jan 2016 - 3:17 PM, said:

"congratulations, you're the best at a game that nobody cares about...peak players 305. You rule the few. Brag."

 

Happy to.

He's actually one of the best at it's absolute peak as well.

He also told me a high refresh monitor would change my life, which was true.

He additionally contributed himself to the opportunity for pub star dm junkies to rub elbows every Sunday night in a very chill high skill/mix skill weekly event, The Sunday Sunday Sunday American Death Match.

Furthermore he was a forum martyr to the tyranny during The Great Silence.

In conclusion everyone loves him because he's smart and handsome.

Who are you now?

Edited by CraftyDus, 12 January 2016 - 01:24 PM.

[TheButtSatisfier]

Oh it's one of those NA MMR threads

 

Is there any other kind?

[Luaq]

Not as egotistical as drawing comparisons between yourself and a rape victim.  Come off it.

You're good at replying simple sentences. I see my comparison was too much for you.
But it really is comparable as any other problem where the culprit is blaming the victims to justify what they did.

it's the same mental pattern of someone having power over someone else and abusing.
I'm just giving an extreme example of the same where the one in power isn't helping but just carelessly take what he wants.

Though you can be defended or even excused because this sick society  game made you feel like it was the only option or simply couldn't resist to get what you wanted. You just take it and it's just too bad for the suckers.

I didn't intend to make this matter personal, but you're just asking for it. Maybe it's actually again something that you want. It simplifies the matter.

Music: You love me I love you we're a happy family... (and you can continue on abusing as you like, it's just so fun to do. Because you don't want to lose that precious MMR and you can't even resist)

Edited by Luaq, 12 January 2016 - 01:56 PM.

[RedVan]

Not as egotistical as drawing comparisons between yourself and a rape victim.  Come off it.

#NoobLivesMatter

[Luaq]

#NoobLivesMatter

 that one is indeed funny even though you probably are sarcastic, It's still a good laugh.
But I feel like that pretty much. This game wouldn't be alive if there was only the 1% playing it.
Society would want me to careless ;) right nept? That's how it works right?

#keepcalmandcarryon
(Can you hear my sarcasm?)

I just wanted some answers in my OP but I guess I should have #suckituploser #stfuandgetbetter...

Edited by Luaq, 12 January 2016 - 01:46 PM.

[ticklemyiguana]

You're good at replying simple sentences. I see my comparison was too much for you.
But it really is comparable as any other problem where the culprit is blaming the victims to justify what they did.

it's the same mental pattern of someone having power over someone else and abusing.
I'm just giving an extreme example of the same where the one in power isn't helping but just carelessly take what he wants.

Though you can be defended or even excused because this sick society  game made you feel like it was the only option or simply couldn't resist to get what you wanted. You just take it and it's just too bad for the suckers.

I didn't intend to make this matter personal, but you're just asking for it. Maybe it's actually again something that you want. It simplifies the matter.

Music: I hate you, you hate me you are a happy man... (and you can continue on abusing as you like, it's just to fun to do. Because you don't want to lose that precious MMR and you can't even resist)

I won't pretend to have read the whole thread, I'd actually be surprised if half the people responding have, and given some of the responses that indicate beyond any reasonable doubt that this "issue" has a few more factors than a rape, that definitely includes you.

 

I can tell you that your over-dramatization and simplification of all this isn't winning you any points on the matter. It certainly isn't getting anyone to come around to your line of thinking, well, I don't know what's going on where comparing a traumatic and life changing event with a clear distinction between victim and rapist is somehow valid. Unless, of course, you're comparing this whole thing with some of the more subtle legal definitions, such as when the sex is consensual, but it's between two sixteen year olds so the male is often automatically found guilty of rape and registered as a sex offender for the rest of his life - is that where you're going with this? Because I can see that. I can definitely see the parallel between two systems that choose to over simplify the situation and instead of trying to look at the bigger picture or possibly relate to the individuals involved, they just choose to blame someone.

 

I can see where you're going with that analogy now. You're right. That does make sense.

 

Hyperbole often makes us eat our words. I'm a good cook. Refrain from it.

Edited by ticklemyiguana, 12 January 2016 - 02:01 PM.

[M1lkshake]

Waow seriously, you could say that to yourself right now man. That's exactly what I'm talking about. "Shut the fuzzy bunny up and get better"
What noobs are saying are "FFS can I even start to learn anything?" And here you are with that attitude "Shut up loser eat my barrel in your face" or "grow balls/develop some emotional control"

It is in fact my sensibility towards the abuse that made me do this post and my frustration over careless abusers. Because that's what you are, especially with that attitude of yours. Even if you can be "excused" by the poor ranking game design, you're being emotional yourself saying " But my mmr QQ"

Heck I live that same MMR problem like anyone, but some are so sentimental about that, they create smurfs accounts "because the mmr system is so hard on us highest tier players". It's that over-sentimentality over a virtual statistic, the MMR, that pushes some to create a smurf and play against people not of your size consequently breaking the real gameplay experience itself of all the 11 other players. How egotistical is that? You're so self centered that you're making others pay for your "suffering".

You're indeed a great player and a lot of people have much to learn from you, but that attitude just makes you a soar "winner".

 

You're not being "abused". You're losing, and you're being a sore loser. Get over it and get better. There is no wild, crazy, complicated solution that is going to solve the problem you're having right now except learning how to play better, which just takes time and concentrated effort.

 

Calling people better than you "abusers" is the worst abuse of the word "abuse." I can't even believe people like you exist.

[Nept]

You're good at replying simple sentences. I see my comparison was too much for you.
But it really is comparable as any other problem where the culprit is blaming the victims to justify what they did.

it's the same mental pattern of someone having power over someone else and abusing.
I'm just giving an extreme example of the same where the one in power isn't helping but just carelessly take what he wants.

Though you can be defended or even excused because this sick society  game made you feel like it was the only option or simply couldn't resist to get what you wanted. You just take it and it's just too bad for the suckers.

I didn't intend to make this matter personal, but you're just asking for it. Maybe it's actually again something that you want. It simplifies the matter.

Music: You love me I love you we're a happy family... (and you can continue on abusing as you like, it's just so fun to do. Because you don't want to lose that precious MMR and you can't even resist)

 

I use simple sentences for two reasons. Firstly, it's good writing � especially during debate. Secondly, it's a courtesy toward people (such as yourself) for whom English is a secondary or tertiary language.

 

A false (or weak) analogy arises whenever writers overstretch comparisons between dissimilar items. In this case, you've sought to show similarities between blaming a rape victim for their attack and telling a weaker (and complaining) Hawken player to improve.

 

Here's what makes that analogy weak:

1. The Hawken player isn't being victimized. They've elected to play a game. They have choice in the matter, and may cease playing the game at their leisure. If the competition is too stiff within a particular server, they may select another. Encountering players stronger than yourself is part of the game.

2. Telling rape victims that they �should've just been stronger� constitutes victim blaming because fault lies with the rapist. But fault doesn't lie with hestoned for beating you in a video game, alt account or no. Defeating opponents is the entire point of competitive multiplayer gaming.

3. �Getting stronger� or �sucking it up� isn't the solution to eliminating rape. However, it is the solution to the (diminutive) problem you're encountering. You're losing in a competitive multiplayer game, and you're becoming upset as a result. Best way to stop losing is to become better; and the only person who can control your emotions is you.

Now, ridiculous analogies aside, we might ask whether hestoned is subverting the matchmaking system.

 

He isn't.

 

When he wants to play seriously, he plays on his main. When he wants to fool around, he plays on his alt. AND THE MMR OF THOSE ACCOUNTS REFLECT THOSE DIFFERENCES. As we've explained previously, high-tier players don't want to tryhard 24/7. When we're playing our mains, we're forced to carry much weaker teams (whose constituent players get reamed regardless of the final score).

[SS396]

 

#keepcalmandcarryon
(Can you hear my sarcasm?)

 

Luaq, just give up and try to ignore the whole thing, find something else somewhere else (in another game perhaps) to focus on instead.  You are just wasting your time trying to get the small pack of nerds to open their eyes and realize they are damaging the very thing they need in order to "just play the game".  They are all 100% loyal to each other, so picking a fight with one, just leads to a gangbang where all the others jump out of the woodwork and proceed to give you your licks too.  No amount of words from anyone is going to change their borg hive mind.

 

You're losing, and you're being a sore loser. Get over it and get better. There is no wild, crazy, complicated solution that is going to solve the problem you're having right now except learning how to play better, which just takes time and concentrated effort.

 

 

Thats funny M1lkshake, the high MMR players that are avoiding losing precious MMR to maintain their rank on a fuzzy bunnyng made up leaderboard by avoiding the penalties of playing the game are being sore losers too.  They should accept their punishment (loss of MMR) just as everyone else in the game has to when the game hands it out and not exploit the system because they can.

[Sorroritas]

Can you live with mains wrecking your MMR into the ground?  Reading your post, it's a serious question.

But mains don't wreck MMR like smurfs do.  That's my sole contention about smurfs. 

 

If I were to place second to a 2800 MMR account in DM, my MMR would very likely increase.  I saw it happen in every Sunday Sunday Sunday DM.

 

If I were playing against a lower level 2000 MMR smurf, not only would I have to contend with their underdog bonus but even if I place second to them my MMR would likely go down.  I saw this happen every time I played against Dave's smurfs, to the tune of 100+ MMR lost in an evening.

^This pretty much.

 

Also, funny that you ask that.

Because 2 years ago I had to play with lvl 30s in a lvl 10 mech (that was when customization was still around and levels mattered, at least more than nowadays). And I played against many top notch players (most of them stopped playing though, safe for xacius or hestoned)

 

It was hard, it was fun, they were helpful and I learned a lot and got better.

We had almost no smurfs, we had servers with higher MMR than avg 1800, and most of the teammates were competent and in the same MMR bracket.

 

Nowadays there's only FairyPrincess548 and N00bst0mp3r and IHazBigPoobs around calling me names while singlehandedly killing my whole team in 2 seconds.

I honestly cannot tell you my 'true MMR'.    I don't play one account long enough.  If you look up some known alts of mine, they're between 1900 and 2300. 

MMR, to me, really does not affect how I play.  MMR to me, is a number I want to someday run to 3000.  MMR to me is a number I love taking away from other people.

 

It's fun to see how people say "Those who complain about smurfs are sore losers".

i know only like 2 other people will understand what its like to build up your mmr over the course of a couple months only to lose half of the work in 1 10 min game. goodbye months of playing. none of you will understand how this feels so you couldnt possibly comprehend why i would make an alt where im not FORCED to carry a team or risk having my ranking drop.

I found a sore loser right here. So I guess we're two now. Anyone else wants to join?

 

When he wants to play seriously, he plays on his main. When he wants to fool around, he plays on his alt. AND THE MMR OF THOSE ACCOUNTS REFLECT THOSE DIFFERENCES. As we've explained previously, high-tier players don't want to tryhard 24/7. When we're playing our mains, we're forced to carry much weaker teams (whose constituent players get reamed regardless of the final score).

The point is not that you HAVE to carry. Not even that you CAN carry. The thing is that even IF you carry you lose MMR.

But you know what? That applies to everyone that plays his main, getting thrown into a match with a team of 5 noobs.

There's just people taking the easy way out of it...

Edited by Sorroritas, 12 January 2016 - 03:49 PM.

[crockrocket]

Luaq, just give up and try to ignore the whole thing, find something else somewhere else (in another game perhaps) to focus on instead. You are just wasting your time trying to get the small pack of nerds to open their eyes and realize they are damaging the very thing they need in order to "just play the game". They are all 100% loyal to each other, so picking a fight with one, just leads to a gangbang where all the others jump out of the woodwork and proceed to give you your licks too. No amount of words from anyone is going to change their borg hive mind.

Lmao this argument again.

Also implying that he should quit the game? Fuzz off

[Hyginos]

Thats funny M1lkshake, the high MMR players that are avoiding losing precious MMR to maintain their rank on a fuzzy bunnyng made up leaderboard by avoiding the penalties of playing the game are being sore losers too.  They should accept their punishment (loss of MMR) just as everyone else in the game has to when the game hands it out and not exploit the system because they can.

 

You presume to know the intentions of people you have actively ignored the statements of and are part of a community you actively avoid engaging with. Had you bothered to pay attention you would have noticed that, while certainly some care quite a bit about their position on the leader board, there TONs of reasons why people smurf, and a minuscule portion of them are in any way malicious.

[PoopSlinger]

You presume to know the intentions of people you have actively ignored the statements of and are part of a community you actively avoid engaging with. Had you bothered to pay attention you would have noticed that, while certainly some care quite a bit about their position on the leader board, there TONs of reasons why people smurf, and a minuscule portion of them are in any way malicious.

Don't listen to him hes part of the omni/high mmr cabal too.