102 replies to this topic

[-Tj-]

I think they just recycled old footage from Ascension era meta where you could have 600 health mechs. I wouldn't read too much into the gameplay footage they have (outside of the footage with the new stuff.

 

True.

 

 

See, that's where most players and I split in terms of what we find fun and interesting. I find anything that is hardly used fun. That's why I dropped the Incinerator when it became more common, it's why I hardly play the assault, and it's also why I hardly pick up my old main mechs anymore. There's also a challenge factor involved with that. Iv'e been playing since early 2013 and despite almost two fifths of my play time going to playing the G2 raider, I'm 99% certain that if I faced myself, one piloting the G2 raider and the other piloting an old main like heat scout or SS, that the non G2 raider pilot would win the majority of the matches.  

That's part of the reason I went to the EOC Infil in the first place. It wasn't used much, and it was a real challenge to play, but for me, the "challenging" part is what I like most. There's not much challenge in AR itself other than aim. With the EOC, there's prediction involved, aim, timing, strategy. HC also has a lot of those elements, but not as much. Honestly, I would have made the HC Infil the main, and make the G2 Infil the EOC version instead. AR seems like a side-grade weapon to me for the mech, something that works but doesn't really fit the Infil's role.

[nepacaka]

sorry about past / present / future (time/form), i'm always babaji with this xD

 

i am can't wait to see hawken 3.0 in action. than more i think about all of it (i mean, how it might be), than more darkener future i see/imagine.

 

at current moment, i want to believe in this version. this one is 100% positive.

 

- in E3 video G2 pred (or G1 maybe?) have 500 HP. i think Reloaded delete +/- 5,10,15 HP from each class, and probably, increase weapon damage a little (+/- 5 dmg). with this they more close to steam-version where gameplay was more about "one shot". it was actually fun, and more easy. u can kill someone fast, and can be ded even faster, if you are mistaken. also, less than 3 seconds lighting-speed pvp it is good. always love it.

 

- RLD making a G2 equal G1, but with alternate weapons. it is mean that brawler with SA can be the same efficiency like with Flak, just have a different game play and role. (like we have now.)

it can help a lot with balance, and bring us more close to CB3 hawken where every mech have only 2 weapon (and 2 weapons was pretty good and enough). i.e. Mech roles can be much more "clear" to understand and play.

 

- They actually highly nerf inci and maybe finally turn it into real support class. very small dps/damage, but have buff/debuff for teams. it can be cool, but devs should understand how high the real potencial of incin. or even totally rework it and added normal overheat mechanic.

 

- i believe they divided weapons. i.e. only brawler have flak, and they can increase his damage personally to not made brawler sucks. And much more thing. They can ressurect bruiser, for example, or divided bruiser and rocketeer, to make it finally different and not suffer from the same weapons.

 

- i really dislike AR infil. it is stupid mech. to be honest i think he should have EOC/Heat like in beta.

 

- Nief probably not be a super mech on PC, but i think it is stupid a little, reading topics like "nerf HF" everyday and than making this mech. But OK. Also, G2-Nief can have for example, seeker+HF, or seeker+AR or maybe something even strange. it is need test, etc.
Maybe RLD also decrease seeker turning speed/degrees, or fire rate, who knows?

 

- i want to believe, they really understand what they do! read some info, tables etc, and bring some sort of good balance for mech like

first version: "1vs1" balance (it is mean that brawler equal scout and equal assault)

second version: "6vs6" version (all about roles, it is mean that brawler will be devastative and kill everyone who stand close 30m in 2 shot, but will be totally sux against snipers, etc. like rock-paper-scissors (but not all about "DPS" or "not DPS" like now)

 

- I also hope they change/rework "time-to-overheat" for DPS mechs. yeah, u still have high damage, but not soo long as u think...

 

- I hope they rework a item system. we can see in video that now mech only 2 slots for item. It will be cool if they added global cooldown for item (they actually can make 1-3 charges for every item, and it is mean, orb-lording is still here...meh)

 

- the same with internals. 2 internals only, it actually can be interest. probably, they just get rig all internals except 3-slot.

 

Hawken 3.0 actually have a chance to be a "super good", for my opinion. but...i'm very scary with what reloaded bring to us in reality. (can't sleep when i'm think about it xD)

Edited by nepacaka, 28 June 2016 - 04:12 PM.

[DallasCreeper]

I asked about the Assault, and a dev answered that the Assault is now essentially what the G2 Assault WAS...
I wonder what the new G2 Assault is?...

I wonder what the Vytro Chassis will be used for? Also, it appears the G2 Raider is getting out with a name change and a possible bug fix(No longer showing up on radar during the ability). I wonder if they'll also fix the T-32 Bolt bug where it sometimes continues to fire when you hold down fire instead of charging. 

Edited by (TDM) DallasCreeper, 28 June 2016 - 06:23 PM.

[ARCH3TYP3]

Okay, now I'm confused. Are G2 variants quantifiably superior mechs to their vanilla counterparts? E.g. better values for X mech attribute(s)? If so, can someone provide a citation?

 

Or are G2 variants just supposed to be the same mech as the vanilla counterpart in terms of stats, but their weapon loadouts are different?

According to the Dev Q&A Thread:

"Are there any other major mechanic reworks? Mech abilities, dodging, boosting; all of these have been "messed with" several times over the game's development cycle, but are generally agreed upon to be in a good place while still maintaining the unique feel of the game, so information on this is definitely of interest.

We have not changed any mechanics.  There are changes to stats, availability, and to the upgrade path system for newly-purchased mechs.  Mechs you already own will experience stat adjustments; the aim for pre-existing mechs has been to support a "classic Hawken" core.  The G1 and G2 mech concept has been extended so that there is a bit of a power increase to the G2 variant of each mech.  In terms of game modes, we have brought the Co-Op Bots game modes into a more prominent position with the intent of making it easier for especially new players and players who don't enjoy PvP an alternative to pure PvP.  All game mode rules should remain about the same."

[Shade__]

"with OVER 30 mechs at launch" not "with 30 mechs at launch." 

i said that in the TS they all said it didn't so i never brought it up...

[Flifang]

True.


That's part of the reason I went to the EOC Infil in the first place. It wasn't used much, and it was a real challenge to play, but for me, the "challenging" part is what I like most. There's not much challenge in AR itself other than aim. With the EOC, there's prediction involved, aim, timing, strategy. HC also has a lot of those elements, but not as much. Honestly, I would have made the HC Infil the main, and make the G2 Infil the EOC version instead. AR seems like a side-grade weapon to me for the mech, something that works but doesn't really fit the Infil's role.

No. I totally understand where you're coming from and I wholeheartedly agree. Infiltrator was the first mech I bought ever. If it wasn't for the pred and the raider it would still be my most played mech. However, I will say that just because you feel like the EOC or Heat compliments the Infiltrator's role best does not necessarily mean that's all there is.

[Flifang]

i said that in the TS they all said it didn't so i never brought it up...

What a bunch of asshats...

[DemitronPrime]

What a bunch of asshats...

 

maybe if you were ever ON the TS you could say that to their faces... js

[-Tj-]

No. I totally understand where you're coming from and I wholeheartedly agree. Infiltrator was the first mech I bought ever. If it wasn't for the pred and the raider it would still be my most played mech. However, I will say that just because you feel like the EOC or Heat compliments the Infiltrator's role best does not necessarily mean that's all there is.

That isn't what I'm saying, though. What I'm saying is that the way they've set it up, they've set it up in a very boring way. The AR is far less interesting than the EOC or HC, and the EOC is more difficult to get used to than the HC. Players starting out with the Infil will be met with a steep learning curve only to be ultimately greeted by a far less difficult weapon to use, and one that they've likely already used before.

 

I would have done this instead:

G1: HC

G2: EOC

 

OR

 

G1: AR

G2: EOC

 

 

... or if there happens to be a G3 Infil in the pipes (or for all mechs):

G1: AR

G2: HC

G3: EOC

[dorobo]

True.

 

 

That's part of the reason I went to the EOC Infil in the first place. It wasn't used much, and it was a real challenge to play, but for me, the "challenging" part is what I like most. There's not much challenge in AR itself other than aim. With the EOC, there's prediction involved, aim, timing, strategy. HC also has a lot of those elements, but not as much. Honestly, I would have made the HC Infil the main, and make the G2 Infil the EOC version instead. AR seems like a side-grade weapon to me for the mech, something that works but doesn't really fit the Infil's role.

 

all these different non hitscan weapons are the best part of hawken.. it's where u can gain in skill the most and feel good about it.  Depth basically and not boring in the longer run.

[StubbornPuppet]

I cannot imagine a world without the Heat Infiltrator.  It's just such a perfect combination (from both ends, it's not imbalanced).  The only thing that would make it better is if the cloaking didn't eat fuel.

[TheButtSatisfier]

According to the Dev Q&A Thread:

 

Are there any other major mechanic reworks? Mech abilities, dodging, boosting; all of these have been "messed with" several times over the game's development cycle, but are generally agreed upon to be in a good place while still maintaining the unique feel of the game, so information on this is definitely of interest.

 

"We have not changed any mechanics.  There are changes to stats, availability, and to the upgrade path system for newly-purchased mechs.  Mechs you already own will experience stat adjustments; the aim for pre-existing mechs has been to support a "classic Hawken" core.  The G1 and G2 mech concept has been extended so that there is a bit of a power increase to the G2 variant of each mech.  In terms of game modes, we have brought the Co-Op Bots game modes into a more prominent position with the intent of making it easier for especially new players and players who don't enjoy PvP an alternative to pure PvP.  All game mode rules should remain about the same."

 

If I'm reading that right - that the G2 variants have arguably better statistics than their G1 counterpart - then that's an unfortunate departure from how mechs are balanced now. Currently, no mech is explicitly supposed to be better than another (except G2A which sucks more than standard assault, which I thought was stupid when they could easily balance it). I don't think that's a healthy path for a game, especially one that is trying to position itself as not being P2W. Then again, if the G2 variants can only be unlocked by leveling up a G1, then that would lessen the blow.

 

I also don't like the idea of having two base mechs, each with a different weapon loadout, with one of them arbitrarily having better stats. For example, take the G1 and G2 Brawler. The loadout for each mech is a Flak and a SA-Hawkins, respectively. And for some reason, since the G2 variant has the Hawkins, then that mech magically has better stats. I see no reason why that should be the case.

 

On the other hand, I don't think I would mind if the G1 and G2 variants had rebalanced stats. In the above example, perhaps the G2 Brawler variant has less health but more speed. That would help reinforce the idea that there are 30 distinct mechs instead of 15 starter mechs and then 15 "better" mechs with weapons you may or may not want to use.

 

But making the stats of the G2 unequivocally better than the G1 is lulz. Don't shortchange half of the damn mechs.

 

Edit: I am also assuming that each mech will only have access to one weapon loadout.

Edited by TheButtSatisfier, 29 June 2016 - 07:28 AM.

[KarlSchlag]

Is the Marauder visible on radar when using its ability? 

[StubbornPuppet]

According to the Dev Q&A Thread:

"Are there any other major mechanic reworks? Mech abilities, dodging, boosting; all of these have been "messed with" several times over the game's development cycle, but are generally agreed upon to be in a good place while still maintaining the unique feel of the game, so information on this is definitely of interest.

We have not changed any mechanics.  There are changes to stats, availability, and to the upgrade path system for newly-purchased mechs.  Mechs you already own will experience stat adjustments; the aim for pre-existing mechs has been to support a "classic Hawken" core.  The G1 and G2 mech concept has been extended so that there is a bit of a power increase to the G2 variant of each mech.  In terms of game modes, we have brought the Co-Op Bots game modes into a more prominent position with the intent of making it easier for especially new players and players who don't enjoy PvP an alternative to pure PvP.  All game mode rules should remain about the same."

 

 

If I'm reading that right - that the G2 variants have arguably better statistics than their G1 counterpart - then that's an unfortunate departure from how mechs are balanced now. Currently, no mech is explicitly supposed to be better than another (except G2A which sucks more than standard assault, which I thought was stupid when they could easily balance it). I don't think that's a healthy path for a game, especially one that is trying to position itself as not being P2W.  

 

...snip...

 

But making the stats of the G2 unequivocally better than the G1 is lulz.

...snip...

 

 

You ARE reading that right.

 

I've quoted that line from Tiggs numerous times now because I think it outlines the essence of the changes that have been made.

 

Let's face it, Free 2 Play� (that's right, ReLoaded games owns a registered trademark on Free 2 Play) games do not succeed financially unless there is an incentive for players to spend money on microtransactions.

 

Hawken was (previously) a brilliant example of this: an amazing, really first rate game that decided to try to be "Free" while avoiding any kind of Pay 2 Win.  The only thing you could do is "Pay not to grind"... and even then, what you were grinding towards usually had a slight disadvantage over where you started.  And, well, that didn't work out for Meteor/Adhesive, did it?

 

So, why would anyone be surprised that a company that specializes in profiting off of a Free 2 Play� model would ever be looking to repeat the mistakes of their predecessors?   I think it sucks massive fuzzy bunny sacks... but if you want to play Hawken for all the other amazing things that it is and can be... that's what you're going to be looking at.

 

Prove me wrong and I will be the happiest guy on the game.

Edited by StubbornPuppet, 29 June 2016 - 07:48 AM.

[TheButtSatisfier]

Hawken was (previously) a brilliant example of this: an amazing, really first rate game that decided to try to be "Free" while avoiding any kind of Pay 2 Win.  The only thing you could do is "Pay not to grind"... and even then, what you were grinding towards usually had a slight disadvantage over where you started.  And, well, that didn't work out for Meteor/Adhesive, did it?

 

I disagree. There are a lot of reasons why Hawken didn't take off. I'm of the opinion that the payment model for Hawken is fine - if not ideal - but Meteor / Adhesive failed to create content that people wanted to buy. They failed with the meat and bones of their product, and as a result, people didn't feel the need to pull out their wallets as often. If they were better with putting out new mechs, weapons, items, and cosmetics, then they would have created the kind of demand necessary to get people to spend more money.

 

Supporting evidence: the things in Hawken that can be purchased for money - early unlocks and cosmetics - is the exact same revenue model that plenty of successful games use. League of Legends is the most prominent example that comes to mind, and they're doing (compared to Hawken) very well despite using the same revenue model. CS:GO uses a revenue system that is based on skins, and they are doing very well for themselves (Crafty get in here and correct me if I'm wrong).

 

Now if LoL stopped putting out new cosmetics and champions for about 6 months then you bet your ass their revenue would decline. And that's what happened to Hawken.

Edited by TheButtSatisfier, 29 June 2016 - 09:03 AM.

[Kopra]

I disagree. There are a lot of reasons why Hawken didn't take off. I'm of the opinion that the payment model for Hawken is fine - if not ideal - but Meteor / Adhesive failed to create content that people wanted to buy. They failed with the meat and bones of their product, and as a result, people didn't feel the need to pull out their wallets as often. If they were better with putting out new mechs, weapons, items, and cosmetics, then they would have created the kind of demand necessary to get people to spend more money.

 

Supporting evidence: the things in Hawken that can be purchased for money - early unlocks and cosmetics - is the exact same revenue model that plenty of successful games use. League of Legends is the most prominent example that comes to mind, and they're doing (compared to Hawken) very well despite using the same revenue model. CS:GO uses a revenue system that is based on skins, and they are doing very well for themselves (Crafty get in here and correct me if I'm wrong).

 

Now if LoL stopped putting out new cosmetics and champions for about 6 months then you bet your ass their revenue would decline. And that's what happened to Hawken.

 

To add, the cosmetic options in Hawken are a little depressing.

 

Getting a new coat of paint for your mech in a nutshell.

 

[Duralumi]

To add, the cosmetic options in Hawken are a little depressing.

 

Getting a new coat of paint for your mech in a nutshell.

Spoiler

This is primarily why I used the flat colours on my mechs.

Many of them alter the tint of the rusted/grey areas as well.

 

From left to right:

Tier 2 (very subtly brighter than tier 3): Green, Purple

Tier 3 (darkest): Red, Black, Yellow, and that orange&black "Tiger" camo

Tier 1 (default tint) : Pink, Blue, Brown, Orange, everything else

Tier 4 (gives everything an aqua tint): Cyan

 

My favourite is Cyan by far.

I wish there was an option to manually change the colours of those parts.

Edited by Duralumi, 29 June 2016 - 02:57 PM.

[TheButtSatisfier]

Getting a new coat of paint for your mech in a nutshell.

 

uuggGGGHHHH that highlights a major grievance I have with the skins. If a skin is a slightly different hue of another skin then it's not worth insulting the intelligence of your customers by offering it. The skins should have wildly different patterns and colors between one another; having 10 different variants of the same camouflage pattern is horrible. Would you like that cameo in gray? How about gray and red? Maybe gray and light blue? No. We know what you've always wanted. GRAY AND DARK BLUE. MARVELOUS, I CAN'T WAIT FOR THE MONEY TO JUST ROLL RIGHT THROUGH THE DOOR

 

Less is more. I don't care if there's entire-mech paint schemes with a color for every crayon in the box, but make only a very limited number of color variants of each pattern, and make sure they stand out from a distance.

Edited by TheButtSatisfier, 29 June 2016 - 02:28 PM.

[nepacaka]

So, why would anyone be surprised that a company that specializes in profiting off of a Free 2 Play� model would ever be looking to repeat the mistakes of their predecessors?   I think it sucks massive fuzzy bunny sacks... but if you want to play Hawken for all the other amazing things that it is and can be... that's what you're going to be looking at.

 

F2P and P2W seems different for me. We have F2P even now, it is not a problem.

The main reason why i don't want see P2W (for example, if G2 mech will be only for MC) that it is just nothing good. Also, if G2 will be really "just better" than G1, it will be super awful. 

For example, i love SA-Bawler. But devs do it weaker than original Flak Brawler (which is G2 on consoles now), But! SA brawl is also can be effective and have a totally different gameplay. why it should be worse? it is just like delete 15 mech if you have 30 in total. it is stupid. because if you want to be effective, you should use G2, just because these mechs more stronger.
and this is with many mechs. like EOC-raider and T32-raider. they both cool! or Vulcan-Bruiser and AR/SMC-bruiser, it is just different playstyle. etc.

and it is even more stupid now, when RLD divided weapons, and now they can balance it independently and easily fix some issues.
nerf or buff someone, etc. or changing abilities of G2-mechs, for example, Flak-Brawler can have more armored turret mode, or more faster, and SA-brawler turret can give him more regen instead armor. just for example.

Edited by nepacaka, 29 June 2016 - 03:04 PM.

[Flifang]

That isn't what I'm saying, though. What I'm saying is that the way they've set it up, they've set it up in a very boring way. The AR is far less interesting than the EOC or HC, and the EOC is more difficult to get used to than the HC. Players starting out with the Infil will be met with a steep learning curve only to be ultimately greeted by a far less difficult weapon to use, and one that they've likely already used before.

 

I would have done this instead:

G1: HC

G2: EOC

 

OR

 

G1: AR

G2: EOC

 

 

... or if there happens to be a G3 Infil in the pipes (or for all mechs):

G1: AR

G2: HC

G3: EOC

First of all: I didn't state what I thought you meant at all. I threw in my two cents about ONE statement you made in that reply that I didn't disagree with. What you're clarifying now AGAIN is exactly what I'm agreeing with. I'm extremely well versed in the Infiltrator and have absolutely no intention in continuing this completely imaginary argument you're having with me. Next time I'll make my posts directed towards the angry mob not so "baity" as to not damage the ego of individuals who might take direct offense to a blanket statement I make. 

[Auth0ritarian]

 

Less is more. I don't care if there's entire-mech paint schemes with a color for every crayon in the box, but make only a very limited number of color variants of each pattern, and make sure they stand out from a distance.

 

I might be misremembering, but didn't one of the promo videos show a bright pink skin? Or something like that. 

[-Tj-]

First of all: I didn't state what I thought you meant at all. I threw in my two cents about ONE statement you made in that reply that I didn't disagree with. What you're clarifying now AGAIN is exactly what I'm agreeing with. I'm extremely well versed in the Infiltrator and have absolutely no intention in continuing this completely imaginary argument you're having with me. Next time I'll make my posts directed towards the angry mob not so "baity" as to not damage the ego of individuals who might take direct offense to a blanket statement I make.

Dude, chillax. :P I feel like you're detecting some kind of negativity toward you where there is none. The reason I clarified is because your last statement was:

However, I will say that just because you feel like the EOC or Heat compliments the Infiltrator's role best does not necessarily mean that's all there is.

I felt the need to clarify because up till that sentence it seemed like we agreed. AR is fine on Infil, no doubts, but I don't at all agree that it should be something players work toward, especially if it's something they have to unlock by leveling the G1 first. It would have made much more sense to make the G1 and G2 Infils EOC and HC, and maybe do a different tree that had something like a G1 and G2 Ghost or something that had a modified cloak and hitscan primaries. The AR just doesn't suit the way the cloak works since you can't one-two punch your target with charged weapons, so a cloak that maybe still relies on fuel (or better, a timer) but is as fragile as the Pred cloak yet can do the cloak-fire-cloak thing makes more sense.

If you're getting any negativity from my posts, they aren't directed at you, they're directed in Reloaded's direction because of the current (apparent) G1/G2 Infil setup. I suppose some will find out tonight whether this setup will work or not, but like I said, it just doesn't look like they've taken into account the fun factor when it comes to the weapons involved.

[StubbornPuppet]

I posted about 

 

You ARE reading that right.

 

I've quoted that line from Tiggs numerous times now because I think it outlines the essence of the changes that have been made.

 

Let's face it, Free 2 Play� (that's right, ReLoaded games owns a registered trademark on Free 2 Play) games do not succeed financially unless there is an incentive for players to spend money on microtransactions.

 

Hawken was (previously) a brilliant example of this: an amazing, really first rate game that decided to try to be "Free" while avoiding any kind of Pay 2 Win.  The only thing you could do is "Pay not to grind"... and even then, what you were grinding towards usually had a slight disadvantage over where you started.  And, well, that didn't work out for Meteor/Adhesive, did it?

 

So, why would anyone be surprised that a company that specializes in profiting off of a Free 2 Play� model would ever be looking to repeat the mistakes of their predecessors?   I think it sucks massive fuzzy bunny sacks... but if you want to play Hawken for all the other amazing things that it is and can be... that's what you're going to be looking at.

 

 

I disagree. There are a lot of reasons why Hawken didn't take off. I'm of the opinion that the payment model for Hawken is fine - if not ideal - but Meteor / Adhesive failed to create content that people wanted to buy. They failed with the meat and bones of their product, and as a result, people didn't feel the need to pull out their wallets as often. If they were better with putting out new mechs, weapons, items, and cosmetics, then they would have created the kind of demand necessary to get people to spend more money.

 

Oh, I agree with your assessment Butt.  Didn't mean to imply that it was the ONLY reason.  That was all part of what did Meteor and Adhesive in... as well as their BS player-base predictions and poor capital investment strategy.

 

But, when I look at the overall "Free-2-Play" market, I see games that employ psychological strategies to push a Pay 2 Win model.  ReLoaded certainly has that history.

 

I hope that ReLoaded stands up to Cap'n Josh's early promises that Hawken would not become a Pay 2 Win game.