166 replies to this topic

[Highchu]

Silk_Sk, on December 10 2013 - 07:57 PM, said:

Quote

• We've removed the HAWKEN Credit reward from all Service Awards except "Hawken Initiate" and "Thanks for Playing!". This decision is part of our recent efforts to rebalance the economy.

Wow. Just wow. This will DRASTICALLY decrease the number of people playing this game for extended periods. Of all the dumbest moves they could have made, this wouldn't have made the list because it's just too dumb. RIP Hawken. The only time to do this would be in conjunction with increasing the base HC accrual rate but they just doomed the game to a lack of activity for the next month at least.

I agree, what exactly was wrong with the "economy" to warrant such a change_ As it is right now accumulating HC purely through match rewards is very slow without any boosts. Having Service Rewards allowed new players first experiencing the game a chance to speedup progression and tryout new gear without the need of grinding game after game to buy that 1 new piece. Are they planning on substituting something for this like extra HC match rewards_ If not the only reason I can see them doing this is to encourage players to go and buy MC in order to purchase items directly or get boosts.

[Spliff_Craven]

Like I said:

Spliff_Craven, on December 10 2013 - 08:34 PM, said:

An attempt rebalance the economy = PAY TO WIN

2000 whole bonus Hawken credits. WOW! Try not to spend it all on one mech.

That's gonna make the grind to a halt. People will stop playing. And leveling will take forever. We have enough of a problem retaining players.

Please feel free to kill the game further...

[Silverfire]

Spliff_Craven, on December 10 2013 - 10:19 PM, said:

Like I said:

Spliff_Craven, on December 10 2013 - 08:34 PM, said:

An attempt rebalance the economy = PAY TO WIN

2000 whole bonus Hawken credits. WOW! Try not to spend it all on one mech.

That's gonna make the grind to a halt. People will stop playing. And leveling will take forever. We have enough of a problem retaining players.

Please feel free to kill the game further...

Yes, but how does that equal pay to win_ I don't see the connection.

[ShadowWarg]

Quote

Scout
Base overheat recovery time decreased from 9.5 to 6.5 8.5 seconds

Fixed.

I fixed it right_

Yeah I fixed it.

That's what they really meant.

Its just a typo.

Edited by ShadowWarg, December 10 2013 - 10:48 PM.

[aToastfan]

I never noticed the HC bonus from service awards, it was pretty minor, how are people being so upset by this_

It's not a grind if you enjoy the game, for me the idea of 'grind' only applies if you don't enjoy something, because you see it as the means to an end instead of something fulfilling in itself. HAWKEN is repetitive because it's an FPS, but it's PvP so it's always different, and if you don't enjoy it why play_ I think you've got to have the big picture (long term) in mind and there's a certain level where this game will always be a 'grind,' but it's what you make of it. If you enjoy playing then getting all the mechs is just a matter of time. Then there's the matter of actually becoming skilled with them all, which is a process unto itself.

The speculation (_) about an economy overhaul/augmentation is the other side of the coin anyway, which conclusions would you rather jump to_

With the amount of care and effort the development team is clearly putting into this game (like these kinds of hotfixes and the fact that the head developer spends some time almost every week to give the community a development update) it amazes me how pessimistic some of these posts are about something so minor.

[Teljaxx]

I was a bit surprised when I went into my garage after the Wreckage patch, and I tried to rotate my camera view with the left mouse button, only to find:


It would have been nice to know about that before hand... I thought I broke something.

Otherwise, this is fairly impressive for a small hotfix. My main concern is the removal of the HC service rewards. It seems like removing these rewards before adding the new parts of the system to compensate is just asking for trouble.

[Cyclohexane]

[HWK]ZamboniChaos, on December 10 2013 - 06:50 PM, said:

• Scout
  
  • Base heat generation decreased from 92% to 91%
    
  • Base armor decreased from 490 to 470
    
  • Base boost speed decreased from 37.44 to 36 m/s
    
  • Base run speed increased from 17 to 17.5 m/s
    
  • Base overheat recovery time decreased from 9.5 to 6.5 seconds

Am I the only one that does not see this as a nerf_  It looks more like a lateral change if anything.

• 20 point armor reduction, who cares_  I know lots of scout players do not max thier armor tuning points.  Now they just need to run away a little earlier
  
• Heat generation decrease combined with largest overheat recovery boost is a nice boost.
  
• Combine that with faster run speed.  When fighting 1v1, you are not boosting anyway, now they are even harder to hit and they can afford to miss an extra shot
  
• Thier boost speed decreased slightly but they are still fast enough to run away. Is 1.44 m/s going to prevent a scout escape_

The only saving grace is removing the failsafe exploit.  I would have left thier armor and speed alone but increase heat generation so they still feel unique but have to be deadly accurate before overheating.  Now they can overheat, escape, heal, and be ready to fight again.  What about leaving thier top speed alone but decreasing acceleration_   Well I suppose its to late now, well just have to see.

______________________
Also not a fan of removing HC bonus on awards.  I see no point in going after awards anymore.  I already have all the mechs so the change does not affect me, but I can say that I did get bored grinding down a few of them.  It also took more grinding to be able to aford good internals / items; and I still do not have them all tweaked out.  The bonus reduced the grind and allowed me to be more competative.  Just entering this game, be prepared to die a lot.  I mean a lot in a crappy mech with no internals, no items, and no tweaks.  No to mention, you do not make as much money per match when your dieing all the time!

I just want to play a fun FPS game, not a RPG.  I quite RPG because of the grind.  Want people to buy more MC_  Make more skins and make them affordable.  Have them cover the entire mech.  These skins look like the guy painting it was lazy.  Hey, lets camoflauge our mech but only small sections of each body part.  Why not a full camo_

I still have 2500 MC from a promotion months ago (on video card).  I have only spent some of it because it costs so much to outfit one mech; forget about multiple skins.

[Cyclohexane]

nepacaka, on December 10 2013 - 09:55 PM, said:

[
wat_
are you mad_ or somthing_
I play a little, and irregularly, 3 days evening is enough to accumulate 15,000 HC.
if you play many, 60-100 game hour is enough to buy all mech without donate.
easy say - 6 day of playning - and you have all mech in garage, next you just need to select internals and gradually installed on your mechs. profit.

Lol, I'm calling you out on this.  Let's examine this claim mathematically.  The average game earns about 200 HC per 30 min match (not including finding a game, waiting to ready, waiting to start, etc.).  You gain 400 in long siege games (maxes out here around an hour, so long siege games earn you less HC).  But lets be conservative and say you earn 250 every 30 minutes.

(15,000 / 250 ) * 0.5 hr = 30 hours.

So you are telling me that in 3 days you play 30 hours_  That is 10 hours a day!  This is "playing little and irregularly"_

I'm lucky to play 1 hour per night after work, helping my kids with homework, eating, showering, etc.  What planet do you live on that 10 hours of gaming per day is a little.  That is more than a full time job.  Most of us do not have rooms in our parents basement.  

Your other claim of 60-100 game hours to have all the mechs is also false.  100 game hours (assuming 250 per 30 mins) is 50,000 HC.  That is approximately 3 mechs without internals, useful items, or any mech rank bonuses.  Not to mention 100 game hours is actually much longer than 100 RL hours.

Also keep in mind that the bonuses mainly affect new players.  They get money to buy useful items, ranks, internals, etc. to be competitive.  Because lets face it, if your not making any kills, your also not earning as much HC (definitely less than 250).  The more you suck, the less money you make.  The worse your mech is, the more you suck.  Its a downward spiral and why would a new guy stick around_  I do not play games where I am constantly dying with slow improvement.  I just find another game.  Lets face it, winning is fun.

This game is not a true FPS, it is definitely a hybrid.  I like feeling like I earn something, but only when its fair.  I got all my bonuses and a full garage, but I want new players to stick around.  It like raising taxes on a suffering economy.

[Ker4u]

overall this across the board recovery reduction seems silly to me, lots of them didn't need reduction, one more step  to simplify everything. And no failsafe buff, u serious_
p/s  people still cry about scout, lawl, all hail infiltrator

Edited by Ker4u, December 11 2013 - 12:33 AM.

[Aims]

All I can say is THANKYOU DEVS! It may not be perfect but this is far and beyond what I personally and I'm sure many others were expecting from this update.

THIS IS MORE LIKE IT!

[dEd101]

What is the grind like for a new player_ I started last year when there were no service awards and you got 5000hc gratis. Add to that the 5 or 6 hc promo codes and I had an easy ride. I never noticed much hc from service awards as they are only a couple of hundred hc here and there.

What is the average hc earned in a single 12min match_ I have 200hc in mind but I don't really pay attention to that. Also the daily match bonus contributes if you play a match every day.

Another factor not brought up yet is the free mechs you get for levelling up pilot ranks. You start with Fred than get Rocketeer, Beserker, Sharpshooter, Brawler and Technician.

I'm liking most of the other fixes. Glad to see Brawler getting some love. Overheat changes are unexpected but lets see how they play out

[Ker4u]

nepacaka, on December 10 2013 - 09:55 PM, said:

Quote

Please reconsider. I enjoy this game a lot, but it's very grindy, and it just got worse.

are you mad_ or somthing_
I play a little, and irregularly, 3 days evening is enough to accumulate 15,000 HC.
if you play many, 60-100 game hour is enough to buy all mech without donate.
easy say - 6 day of playning - and you have all mech in garage, next you just need to select internals and gradually installed on your mechs. profit.

1) your math is a bit off  you earn roughly 1k hc in 1 hour
and to equip 1 mech now you need  about 20k  (when getting free mech, if you know exacly what  to buy for it)
this game got much grindier after  ascension and bonuss removal.
And it's designed in a way that things unlock after leveling, so you will need to bug bad gear first, and then spend money again, and again.
Sure you don't feel it with your old closed  beta  acc, with lots of promo codes on it, and half of items you got for free via having bonuses from maxed out mechs.
Thats why such changes esiliy  pass, new players don't know about how bad it will be and old ones don't care

Edited by Ker4u, December 11 2013 - 12:36 AM.

[battoKyewb]

Full overheat time reduction across the board_  What_  Only a few mechs needed tweaking (brawler, pred)  the rest were fine.  Stop trying to fix stuff that's not broke.  And removing the HC from achievements is a really, really bad idea when the player base is as small as it is.

Brawler could still use more speed.  Doesn't look like scout got nerfed in the slightest, just kinda shifted around. MAYBE the health reduction will do something.  Hellfires might be in a good place but we gotta try it first.

Do you guys actually have reasoning and testing behind the values of certain things that you change_ (referring to the tiny decimal increments)   Or do you kinda go "eff it, lets try.... THIS!! Maybe it will fix stuff."  Just curious, not accusing you of anything.

[RozerMahbub_]

Do u have any plan to improve the PING.......when someone playes out side of US or Uk server ,the PING is so horrible .is it possible to fix this issue.thank u.

[NeroDX]

I'm a new player and I'll happily admit I'm not as skilled as many others. I have invested money into MC to buy a T3 mech. (might have put some more in if not for the recent server outages putting me off) The Service Award HC was a nice little bonus for me trying to get that next item/weapon/whatever.

Quite frankly I'm bummed out with the removal of these rewards. The bonus HC barely took the edge of the grind, this for me is far from good news. I walked away from GW2 because the grind for certain elements within that game became amazingly boring. I'm hoping that I don't feel this change effect my progression too much, but to me the service awards now seem as utterly pointless as any games console achievement.

[nepacaka]

Quote

Lol, I'm calling you out on this.  Let's examine this claim mathematically.  The average game earns about 200 HC per 30 min match (not including finding a game, waiting to ready, waiting to start, etc.).  You gain 400 in long siege games (maxes out here around an hour, so long siege games earn you less HC).  But lets be conservative and say you earn 250 every 30 minutes.

(15,000 / 250 ) * 0.5 hr = 30 hours.

So you are telling me that in 3 days you play 30 hours_  That is 10 hours a day!  This is "playing little and irregularly"_

man i have:
3 brawler (all weapon)
2 rocketeer (heat+eoc)
3 grenadier (all weapon)
2 Vanguard (uzi+mini-flak)
and
TV, Assault, predator, SS, Bruiser, raider, scout, bers, infil, tech, reaper
i mean, i have ALL.
i know what i'm talking about

Quote

(15,000 / 250 ) * 0.5 hr = 30 hours.

15000/250*0,25=15 hours of play
i give 250 HC (in average, sometimes more, sometimes little less) in TDM, and TDM is only 12 minutes.
in half hours in siege i may give 500HC, cuz i gain many XP for killing and assist, and bonus XP for i bring 250EU on C-class. If you stay on base in siege, and shoot in enemy ship, thats your problem, right_ Be angry in game, kill everything what you see, and you will be Rewarded more.

Quote

What planet do you live on that 10 hours of gaming per day is a little.

i play about 7-10 matches in day now, it's 10 * 12-15min = 2-3 hours
early i play more, because i want getting all mech, now when i have all, i play less. i'm not need paly "harder" more.
current my total play time = 121 hours. (you need a screenshot of my career_ or you just bielive me_)
but i spent only 60hrs to gain my first 15 mech. it just fact, and no mathematic there.

Also, basically course of Economic:
- Try open the mech free
- The right choice internals beforehand
- Define the mech on which you'll play, and buy/upgrade them first.
- Try to perform the easiest to achieve something to get a little boost HC when you start play
- Do not buy your unwanted weapons on mech
- Spend 1-2 hours reading forum/manuals/guides that-be know in advance what to spend your money. it will save you HC in the future.

It's not so hard, right_

also, i have a question_ you play in other online game early_
you play in popular game like WoT or WoW_ You know how much to the game hours need, something to get a similar stuff in other MMO games. I'll open your eyes.

1) i play in wot early, and i spent 2-2,5 years (real life, not in game hrs) I have about 20 tanks, of which 9 tanks - 7-8-9 Level
i spent about 2 mouhts totally ingame hours (i mean 60 days * 24 = ~1440 hours) to create my tanks max lvl and buy all stuff. Without donate. (but i have 55-60% win matches)
- Do you still think that hawken have high prices_
2) One my friend play in WoW, he spend a lot of time on game, about 0,5 years totally hrs. It has several characters max lvl, but so far no one not yet a full set of of the last armor.

- i ask again. Do you still think that hawken have high prices_

I'm lucky to play 1 hour per night after work, helping my kids with homework, eating, showering, etc.  What planet do you live on that 10 hours of gaming per day is a little.  That is more than a full time job.  Most of us do not have rooms in our parents basement.

Quote

Also keep in mind that the bonuses mainly affect new players.  They get money to buy useful items, ranks, internals, etc. to be competitive.  Because lets face it, if your not making any kills, your also not earning as much HC (definitely less than 250).  The more you suck, the less money you make.  The worse your mech is, the more you suck.  Its a downward spiral and why would a new guy stick around_  I do not play games where I am constantly dying with slow improvement.  I just find another game.  Lets face it, winning is fun.

When i buy mech 1 lvl, I also had to play against an opponent with High lvl. And i win. If you a good 1vs1 fighter play in DM, you gain more HC than TDM, if you kill all of you seeing and gain 1 place. This is not impossible.

[Ker4u]

Quote

1) i play in wot early, and i spent 2-2,5 years (real life, not in game hrs) I have about 20 tanks, of which 9 tanks - 7-8-9 Level
i spent about 2 mouhts totally ingame hours (i mean 60 days * 24 = ~1440 hours) to create my tanks max lvl and buy all stuff. Without donate. (but i have 55-60% win matches)
- Do you still think that hawken have high prices_
2) One my friend play in WoW, he spend a lot of time on game, about 0,5 years totally hrs. It has several characters max lvl, but so far no one not yet a full set of of the last armor.

Well, i played online  eradan card game, where i farmed 1 card for 3 months. but just because that s/ucked more doesn't mean   it's good to increase  grind in hawken.
i see the things this way, people are leaving and adhesive thinks it's because they got everything too fast, got nothing to farm for now. But i can speak for my friends and myself,  nobody i know left out of that reason,  i don't think this change  will  improve  game experience for anyone.

Edited by Ker4u, December 11 2013 - 01:20 AM.

[Spliff_Craven]

Ker4u, on December 11 2013 - 01:18 AM, said:

Quote

1) i play in wot early, and i spent 2-2,5 years (real life, not in game hrs) I have about 20 tanks, of which 9 tanks - 7-8-9 Level
i spent about 2 mouhts totally ingame hours (i mean 60 days * 24 = ~1440 hours) to create my tanks max lvl and buy all stuff. Without donate. (but i have 55-60% win matches)
- Do you still think that hawken have high prices_
2) One my friend play in WoW, he spend a lot of time on game, about 0,5 years totally hrs. It has several characters max lvl, but so far no one not yet a full set of of the last armor.

Well, i played online  eradan card game, where i farmed 1 card for 3 months. but just because that s/ucked more doesn't mean   it's good to increase  grind in hawken.
i see the things this way, people are leaving and adhesive thinks it's because they got everything too fast, got nothing to farm for now. But i can speak for my friends and myself,  nobody i know left out of that reason,  i don't think this change  will  improve  game experience for anyone.

But it will be more profitable for them {until everyone leaves due to the impossibility of the grind}

[dorobo]

I wont leave. I have all the mechs! muahaha! Anyways.. have somewhere a code lying for HC. I should donate that.

[Bea5t]

KejiGoto, on December 10 2013 - 07:23 PM, said:

CJacobs, on December 10 2013 - 07:12 PM, said:

KejiGoto, on December 10 2013 - 07:10 PM, said:

CJacobs, on December 10 2013 - 07:05 PM, said:

[HWK]ZamboniChaos, on December 10 2013 - 06:50 PM, said:

• We've removed the HAWKEN Credit reward from all Service Awards except "Hawken Initiate" and "Thanks for Playing!". This decision is part of our recent efforts to rebalance the economy.

If this means 'absolutely all service awards' instead of just the time based ones, that's really mean. I hope they buff how many credits you earn in general soon because 200 per match doesn't cut it when mechs cost 13,000.

You can still unlock every mech in the game for free though... This is the price you pay when playing a Free2Play game.

Free to play or not, it's not going to maintain my interest if it takes eight hours of straight up grinding matches to unlock the mechs I want. Making it take longer to do things does not make me want to purchase credits, it makes me bored with the game. Removing credits being earned from awards would make sense if they'd even slightly boosted how many you earn in general through matches. As of now all it does is hinder new players and make no difference to old ones. Of course there's no telling if that is planned and coming later or not but if it is then why not figure it out before pushing out a patch that includes the detrimental part of it_

Well you have to remember that Adhesive is trying to run a business here and the game is in Open Beta so changes like this should be expected as they attempt to find a business model which not only suits their game but their suits their players as well. I agree that taking longer to unlock stuff isn't really a good idea and I've been a long time fan of great cosmetics to make people want to spend money. However what should keep you playing is the fun gameplay and not "Oh man I can almost buy another mech." Once you unlock them all then what_

Mech prices vary as well so while you're saving up for a more expensive mech you could be earning a cheaper mech or the other way around.

ShadowWarg, on December 10 2013 - 07:08 PM, said:

YAY, another thing to talk about on the cockpit tomarrow.

Yup I've got to write up a piece on this now it seems like. I was getting worried we wouldn't see patch notes today though. xD

Leonhardt, on December 10 2013 - 07:13 PM, said:

KejiGoto, on December 10 2013 - 07:08 PM, said:

-snip-

Failsafe returned to where it was thats fine in my opinion, The heat changes are clearly to get the game ready for the new mech that is on the way.

So I wouldn't judge those changes just yet.

I'm glad to see it back where it was but it also wasn't widely used before. Now though since it had its time in the sun with 90% reduction we're going to see it a lot more and I don't think a 30% reduction will be enough to make it a non-issue now. Only time will tell but I'm expecting to see plenty of unskilled pilots leaning on this crutch still.

My problem is that the new mech isn't in the game yet so I kind of have to judge things as they are now.

Reduction to 60% and armor reduction on the Sout means it is not usable on the Scout anymore (I tried in on Scout back when it was 60% and it was awfull). So now it is working as intended mainly for the C-classes.