90 replies to this topic

[comic_sans]

The stars don't tell me a thing any longer. 

 

I never did place much stock in astrology.

[Zaxik]

Hey guys, glad to see forums working again!

 

 

Not playing for months naturally lowered my skill and additionaly I stopped using kb+mouse for gaming and switched to a controller instead*.

 

Now my 2500 MMR on my main doesn't reflect my actual skill level at all and every single match on my main is pretty much lost before it even starts. And a loss only takes my MMR down by a very few points, so it's gonna take ALOT of losing to get to some realistic value. The MMR should IMO at least decrease over time while not playing, otherwise you might find the game pretty much unplayable after taking a longer break.

 

I guess I can now only play on smurf acc. My main is useless. Besides, I'd rather want people see me in-game being bad on my not-so-well-known alt to avoid stupid comments like "hey zaxik, whats up, your aimbot expired?"

 

Yeah... well, see ya on the battlefield sometime.

 

 

*If anybody cares about reasons why I no longer play with kb+mouse:

- Being "stuck" in one position while gaming has brought me some awful neck and back pain. The fact that I have to be in a similar position whole day in work isn't helping either and I see using controller as the only way to make gaming somewhat relaxing to me.

- Aiming with mouse is too easy after so many years. It's not challenging anymore for me and I wanted to try and learn something different.

- Video footages with smooth panning using controller look so much better than with jittery mouse movements.

- I no longer care about being good anyways, just screw that, I got more important stuff to focus on in my life.

[OdinTheWise]

i have pub stomped and not proud of it. i play a lot of wierd hours so finding games with people of any decent skill can some times be challenging. also i am smirfless, i sold them to gargamel all ready 

[x9x8x7x]

Since I really did not contribute anything to the topic with my previous post I decided to actually say something which I will get to now. Apologies for the length I suppose.

 

On the previous forum I has once said that I would continue playing Hawken until the servers died, I was mistaken in this. There came a time around the end of December or the beginning of January that I was unable to find matches I could get into due to MMR restrictions. Even staying in queue with any game type for fifteen minutes or more at a time would give me no matches. At this time between the previous developers silence then demise and my own inability to actually play the game as opposed to playing a game of queuing I had decided it was finally time to move onto something else especially since organized games were no longer able to come about with the removal of the custom servers used for these matches. This changed with the announcement of a new developer. I wanted to play because I had hope again in Hawken.

 

At this point I had put nearly a thousand hours of game time in and around one hundred dollars buying cosmetics on my account that I could not play with. However I wanted to play again so I made an alternate account. This was not something I wanted to do since I had so much invested in my actual account, x9x8x7x is me and I am x9x8x7x. What I have is what I wanted and was the way I wanted it to be but now with the alternate account this is not the case. Whenever possible I still play under x9x8x7x because that is my preference but outside of the revived War Wednesday matches, thanks for bringing this back by the way, generally I still cannot find games when I play with x9x8x7x. If I cannot find a game I switch to my alternate. It is not to "pub stomp" it is simply to play the game.

 

Maybe some would say it is my own fault I was in this situation since prior to joining a team of players who wanted to play competitively my MMR was around 2300 and at the early conclusion of the second season of playing at http://www.tpgleague.org my MMR had risen to around 2700 and would not allow me to play through match making. Possibly I just was better at the game and my MMR reflected this or perhaps it was because I was gaining MMR at an inflated rate since I was playing nearly exclusively with players at or around 2200 or higher, I do not know. What I do know is that there are pilots out there can can still consistently beat me, I still have room for improvement, I want to get better and I also want to be able to play a game I love without people telling me how I should not be playing it.

 

There is more I could say but this is enough for now. Thanks for reading and I hope I see you in the game.

 

<3

 

http://www.twitch.tv/x9x8x7x

[LaurenEmily]

It must be terrible being so good that you can't even play anymore outside that very small circle of people you already know throughout. And when you can, people get mad and tell you to go away because lol stomper. I hope i never get that good to be honest.

[Aregon]

It must be terrible being so good that you can't even play anymore outside that very small circle of people you already know throughout. And when you can, people get mad and tell you to go away because lol stomper. I hope i never get that good to be honest.

If it happens you won`t think too much about it. Your new-found ego makes up for that.

[ThirdEyE]

If it happens you won`t think too much about it. Your new-found ego makes up for that.

Lol, because being good at something makes you an egomaniac.  Also how does it make sense that you wouldn't mind being unable to play a game you enjoy, simply because you're good at it?  It's literally depressing to be in that situation.

[OmegaNull]

I think we all have pub stomped at some point really; but the fact it can be almost impossible to find a game is sometimes depressing. Even at 2400 MMR (as I am now) has caused me a lot of issue with this. Sometimes because I cannot find a game, the smurf comes out. I WANNA PLAY GOD DAMMIT!

[StubbornPuppet]

One suggestion I've posed for helping high ranked players find matches without having to smurf or stomp newbies is to provide folks who are ranked below 2100 (or whatever) an option to get bonuses for "playing up".  Something like an option in "Queuing Up" or "Server List" that allows lower ranked players to agree to be placed in matches which are absolutely above their skill level in exchange for bonuses... or maybe a buff in armor/health.  I would do it.  I always like to be challenged, especially if there is a reward for it.

 

Alternately, there could be an option for a highly skilled player to join lower ranked matches in exchange for accepting a nerf - like lowering their damage dealt or their armor... or both.

 

I'm not sure if this is a perfect solution, but I feel like it would alleviate some of the frustration on both ends.

[OdinTheWise]

One suggestion I've posed for helping high ranked players find matches without having to smurf or stomp newbies is to provide folks who are ranked below 2100 (or whatever) an option to get bonuses for "playing up".  Something like an option in "Queuing Up" or "Server List" that allows lower ranked players to agree to be placed in matches which are absolutely above their skill level in exchange for bonuses... or maybe a buff in armor/health.  I would do it.  I always like to be challenged, especially if there is a reward for it.

 

Alternately, there could be an option for a highly skilled player to join lower ranked matches in exchange for accepting a nerf - like lowering their damage dealt or their armor... or both.

 

I'm not sure if this is a perfect solution, but I feel like it would alleviate some of the frustration on both ends.

the bonuses are an intriguing option, but it would have to be a xp or money bonus rather than buffs or nerffs

[HoneyBoomBoom]

One suggestion I've posed for helping high ranked players find matches without having to smurf or stomp newbies is to provide folks who are ranked below 2100 (or whatever) an option to get bonuses for "playing up". 

 

 

Doesn't this sort of already happen for new players?  An underdog xp bonus of some sort?  I'm not sure what the cut off for that is now, but if it could be modified to give bonus xp/hc/mc for scenarios where the gap in mmr is X points (with no mmr/pilot level restrictions for it to kick in), it might make it a bit better for us with sub-2000 mmr to get SOMETHING out of it.  Or maybe even just a straight 1.5X bonus, like what you can currently buy with MC, but for the duration of the match instead of a whole day?  

[crockrocket]

 

 

Doesn't this sort of already happen for new players?  An underdog xp bonus of some sort?  I'm not sure what the cut off for that is now, but if it could be modified to give bonus xp/hc/mc for scenarios where the gap in mmr is X points (with no mmr/pilot level restrictions for it to kick in), it might make it a bit better for us with sub-2000 mmr to get SOMETHING out of it.  Or maybe even just a straight 1.5X bonus, like what you can currently buy with MC, but for the duration of the match instead of a whole day?  

 

 

Underdog bonus is just level related though, with no mmr component. If you hypothetically had a 2400 mmr level 5 (lol), they would receive a bonus against a 1500 mmr level 30.

 

EDIT: Nvm you knew that... I like the idea of an mmr related underdog bonus though. I think that is actually part of the mmr calculation, but it would be nice for new players if it included hc/xp as well.

Edited by crockrocket, 25 March 2015 - 12:57 PM.

[HoneyBoomBoom]

Underdog bonus is just level related though, with no mmr component. If you hypothetically had a 2400 mmr level 5 (lol), they would receive a bonus against a 1500 mmr level 30.

 

EDIT: Nvm you knew that... I like the idea of an mmr related underdog bonus though. I think that is actually part of the mmr calculation, but it would be nice for new players if it included hc/xp as well.

 

Reading through Dave's post about balance gave me another idea... what about damage bonuses based on mmr variances?  Like a handicap of sorts?  

 

Just popped into my head, along with the list of things I need to pick up at the drugstore, so it might not be very well thought out. ;)

[Ashfire908]

Reading through Dave's post about balance gave me another idea... what about damage bonuses based on mmr variances?  Like a handicap of sorts?

I will light anyone who turns on that system on fire.

Edited by Ashfire908, 25 March 2015 - 02:40 PM.

[OdinTheWise]

I will light anyone who turns on that system on fire.

and i will tie them up

[FlamingBeaker]

Just food for thought, my smurf ONLY uses the secondary - no primary weapons fire. Keeps the MMR low, have to play smart to stay alive. How about we make THAT an in-game option. "We'll let you play with the low MMR players, but you have to give up one of your favorite toys...."

[x9x8x7x]

Just food for thought, my smurf ONLY uses the secondary - no primary weapons fire. Keeps the MMR low, have to play smart to stay alive. How about we make THAT an in-game option. "We'll let you play with the low MMR players, but you have to give up one of your favorite toys...."

 

Myself among others I know already do things similar to this to keep it interesting such as only using the primary weapon or only using the secondary weapon if things are obviously not balanced, "pub stomps" are not fun for either side in my experience although there are absolutely people who are exceptions to this I am sure. My CRT has no items or internals and I also sometimes use it in these situations. There are also many players who are more than willing to sit out until another player joins or switch teams so that the each side has at least even teams numerically. I try to do all of this no matter what account I play on although not every time I probably should admittedly. Sometimes I do not notice, sometimes the game in all but over and sometimes I just do not feel like it.

[CraftyDus]

No

[Nept]

No

Post of the year.

[LaurenEmily]

Post of the year.

Clearly he's a man who knows exactly what he wants.

[palad1ne]

This could be slightly offtopic but when i started playing i got continuously stomped by a certain player, i believe it was a smurf or a stomper and instead of demoralizing me it motivated me & made me fight harder and re-evaluate what i was doing wrong. it gave a reason to get better (i want to beat that person, i want to become as good as he/she is etc.)
What i'm trying to say is, it's not necessarily as terrible as people say it is. If i had been instantly good at this game i wouldn't have stayed.

 

I had similar experience when Open Beta started and i join hawken. Can't remember this name of the Inf Pilot, i think he dont play anymore, but he was awesome. He rekt the whole server without anyone see him. At this times it was fun anyway because they was enough starters and enough medium players to compensate. 

 

But this times are over. The difference between a Newbie and a Vet Player is now too massive. I doubt that new players will learn so much these days when stacked Twitch trolls stump in and shoot on sitting ducks. 

 

Therefore the Game need urgently a  Votekick for Smurf Trolls and a decent Cheat protection, based on stats control and 3rd Party Framework scanning. Also the account must be protected and chained to Steam or for god sake to Origin. Else every ban will result only in another fresh troll account.  

 

Sad enough that someone has to push his tiny self esteem with joining constantly 1600 mmr Servers.  But this seems to be a common problem these days. 

[LRod]

Wouldn't a lot of these smurfing, balance, and MMR range issue be resolved by simply making a players TTK a variable that is controlled by your MMR?  You could have newbs with a high TTK go up against an elite tier player and not worry so much about the balance if that elite player's TTK was much lower.  In that instance, the newb has a fighting chance of not getting instantly stomped, and the elite player not only gets to play on more servers but also has to rely on their superior skills to survive.  Also, it would probably be a helluva lot easier to implement this, than to fix the entire balance issue.  Plus, the whole smurfing and pub stomping issue would be alleviated, and server match-making becomes that much easier.  Just a thought...

Edited by LRod, 27 March 2015 - 09:03 AM.

[_incitatus]

Wouldn't a lot of these smurfing, balance, and MMR range issue be resolved by simply making a players TTK a variable that is controlled by your MMR? You could have newbs with a high TTK go up against an elite tier player and not worry so much about the balance if that elite player's TTK was much lower. In that instance, the newb has a fighting chance of not getting instantly stomped, and the elite player not only gets to play on more servers but also has to rely on their superior skills to survive. Also, it would probably be a helluva lot easier to implement this, than to fix the entire balance issue. Plus, the whole smurfing and pub stomping issue would be alleviated, and server match-making becomes that much easier. Just a thought...

That sounds like it would punish better players and it would probably be difficult to implement effectively.

As it has been expressed previously, the reason most people smurf is due to the lack of matches once your mmr gets above a certain point. My mmr floats around 2300 and I usually have no problems finding a match. When it hits 2400, matches disappear. I think if it can be adjusted where these pilots can find matches, then the smurfing issue goes away.

Removing the mmr restrictions on joining matches above a certain point, say 2200 mmr server average, seems like it would be pretty easy to implement. Like low hanging fruit.

[Amidatelion]

Wouldn't a lot of these smurfing, balance, and MMR range issue be resolved by simply making a players TTK a variable that is controlled by your MMR?  You could have newbs with a high TTK go up against an elite tier player and not worry so much about the balance if that elite player's TTK was much lower.  In that instance, the newb has a fighting chance of not getting instantly stomped, and the elite player not only gets to play on more servers but also has to rely on their superior skills to survive.  Also, it would probably be a helluva lot easier to implement this, than to fix the entire balance issue.  Plus, the whole smurfing and pub stomping issue would be alleviated, and server match-making becomes that much easier.  Just a thought...

 

I mostly abandoned thread, but I had to reply to this.

 

While it may decrease pub stomping his would increase smurfing because it is categorically unfair to higher-MMR players thay get put in lower lobbies. Also, MMR is such an inaccurate system that this would result in widely skewed experiences. I'm currently at 2149MMR which, according to many people who duel me, is in no way representative of my actual skill level. It's only there because of a low K/D and consistently fighting in lobbies I have no chance of winning in. Hell, there aren't players until 2350 that I can't beat on the regular. This system would give me an extreme advantage over players even 50MMR higher than me.

 

It works the opposite way too: this would be disastrous for technician mains.

Edited by Amidatelion, 27 March 2015 - 09:41 AM.

[StubbornPuppet]

It would seem that, with the concept of steps to deal with creating smurf accounts impending, everyone under the sun has been making alt accounts this weekend.  It's like a race - "Get as many alt accounts created as I can... in case the ReLoaded team does something to prevent me from doing it in the future."

[JeffMagnum]

Lol, because being good at something makes you an egomaniac.

 

You might think that, but you're just not a member of the 2600+ MMR circlejerk club that does nothing but stomp new players and make fun of them over Teamspeak for losing. git gud

Edited by JeffMagnum, 30 March 2015 - 01:36 AM.

[ThirdEyE]

You might think that, but you're just not a member of the 2600+ MMR circlejerk club that does nothing but stomp new players and make fun of them over Teamspeak for losing. git gud

Thankfully not anymore, when we were doing TPG/scrims consistently I got to just under 2700 and could no longer find games.  Thus the TurdEyE was born...

[bacon_avenger]

Thankfully not anymore, when we were doing TPG/scrims consistently I got to just under 2700 and could no longer find games.  Thus the TurdEyE was born...

I figured that was you last night in the siege match

[Source_Mystic]

The title should be sufficiently self-explanatory, but to clarify:

 

I would like to call for an indefinite moratorium on smurfing, creating new smurfs and consequently pubstomping (intentional or not). 

 

I know, weird coming from the guy who's last smurf was made in a MUD in the year 2000, but there we go. 

 

Hawken is finally seeing resurgence and new blood. It would not do to chase old friends and interested newcomers away with more brutal and unforgiving play than this game already gives due to matchmaking. You can't help getting dumping in a 1950-2500MMR lobby, but you sure as hell can opt not to go around in a 1900 account when you're 2500 in reality. 

 

The only vaguely legitimate excuse "I can't find any games at my level" is kaput for all but maybe 5 people. The old pros are back. I bloody well fought Exeon today ok and all of last week I had matches with cond0m, Xacius, comic_sans and Jeff Magnum. We do not have a shortage of players to fight up here in this so-called rarefied air. 

 

What was a graceless but justifiable choice is now just a fuzzy bunny move.

 

Be the players you were meant to be, not the ones new folks complain about.

 

Spoiler

Also, consider not partying up. It really screws with the balance.

I  agree ... never was a smurf ,,, but we need more players not less ..... stop smurfing the new players man ... lets get the game into new swing and atract  more peopel.  So we have a stronger commuinty and a better game overall

[Scow2]

As a low-level player... I hope they find a way to make the matchmaking 'loosen up' a bit so that high-MMR players don't have to miss games - just stick them in the first available game closest to their MMR, and keep that MMR noted for team-making purposes.

 

I like seeing high-skill players in the game - They're a threat to be feared on the enemy team, a target to test myself against, and salvation from the foes when they're on my side.

 

Then again... I'm strictly a TDM player.

[IareDave]

As a low-level player... I hope they find a way to make the matchmaking 'loosen up' a bit so that high-MMR players don't have to miss games - just stick them in the first available game closest to their MMR, and keep that MMR noted for team-making purposes.

I like seeing high-skill players in the game - They're a threat to be feared on the enemy team, a target to test myself against, and salvation from the foes when they're on my side.

Then again... I'm strictly a TDM player.

This is exactly what high MMR players want.

On a side note, you share the same mentality I had when I first started the game, or any shooter for that matter - kudos to you.

[Pumapaw]

I second this been bitching about smurfs forever.

[Rei]

As a low-level player... I hope they find a way to make the matchmaking 'loosen up' a bit so that high-MMR players don't have to miss games - just stick them in the first available game closest to their MMR, and keep that MMR noted for team-making purposes.

 

I like seeing high-skill players in the game - They're a threat to be feared on the enemy team, a target to test myself against, and salvation from the foes when they're on my side.

 

Then again... I'm strictly a TDM player.

More people need this mentality rather than just complaining about balance sucking or broken matchmaker.

 

kudos

Edited by Rei, 04 April 2015 - 09:56 PM.

[vonbach]

Vote kick, vote scramble and spectator mode. 

Problem solved.

[Silverfire]

Vote kick - no, good in theory, abused far too much in practice.

Vote scramble - not sure what this is, might negate the matchmaker tbh

Spectator mode - yes yes yes yes and yes

[vonbach]

Votescramble is easy you vote to scramble if it gets too unbalanced or the server sometimes does it automatically.

The other team also has to vote. If they don't thats hen your team goes spectator and their team is divided in half

automatically. Then you rejoin. Balance is achieved.

Edited by vonbach, 05 April 2015 - 06:18 AM.

[Silverfire]

Vote scramble could just as easily "fix" a match as it could completely screw a team over. Also, I don't think it's fair to a team who has worked together and effectively to gain a lead only to get scrambled and thus the advantage of good team chemistry dissolved. I honestly don't think it'd be any good for the game anyway.

There are more elegant solutions and ones far better than this, I feel.

Edited by Silverfire, 05 April 2015 - 06:30 AM.

[M4st0d0n]

I feel Hawken need a soft reset of MMR. Make three tiers. 1000, 1500, 2000. Let them farm it back again.

 

There are more elegant solutions and ones far better than this, I feel.

 

Then give them to us please. Votekick is common. It's got its flaws but without any form of anti cheat it could definately serve its purpose.

[TangledMantis]

The dude abides.

I will only use my two accounts, which are within 100 points of each other, the lower primarily used for drunk piloting. I feel this is acceptable.

 

I only play this game intoxicated. Its part of my routine. Sober I cant do anything right.

[TangledMantis]

I'm a 1950 mmr player.  It never really seems to move any more, so I think that's about my cap.  I was once up to 2100, but the guys at the top made sure that was not long lived.

 

So, with such a "middle-of-the-road" mmr, I experience some very interesting extremes in match skill level.  The stars don't tell me a thing any longer.  I get matches that are 1900 - 2500.  I get matches that are 1400 - 2400.  And I get the dreaded matches that are 1250 - 2000... where there are always, without exception, at least 4 players who are lower than rank 10 who are at the top of the leaderboard by several hundred points.

 

And these players frequently try to deflect suspicion with transparent chat comments like, "Wow, this game is really easy." or "Man, that's the best match I ever played... I'm on a roll."  Really?  Shut up.  You do not get that good in just 3 hours of game-play on Hawken.  What is the appeal?  I don't get it.

 

It seems that the only surefire way to cut down on this is for an imposition of IP address... which comes with it's own unique problems.  But still, how many accounts would ever legitimately play from the same IP? (not counting countries where online gaming cafe's are the norm)

 

 

Is mmr averaged over a whole career or over a specific period of matches? 

 

Ive got about 200 or so hours in game now and my mmr seems to rest right around 1790. I was in a fightclub server a few days ago and had a high MMR player seemed suprised it was so low ~ that I appeared to play much better than 1800. 

 

Most people on my friends list are 2100+ and I get stomped a lot in games with them, but it just makes me more vigilant even though I have less kills. 

 

If anything I think my lower MMR is because I can dodge, I can dance, and I can stay alive, but im not very good at landing hits.